Bush urges end to oil addiction (Source: BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4665758.stm))

President George W Bush has warned the US must break its "addiction" to oil, in his State of the Union address.
He said the US was too reliant on oil, often from "unstable" countries, and had to find alternatives.

The Middle East featured strongly in the speech, in which Mr Bush warned of "danger and decline" if the US failed to face up to outside threats.

Security and the economy were also dominant themes of the speech, at the start of a critical election year.

In his televised, prime-time address, Mr Bush described the nation's dependence on imported oil as "a serious problem".

"The best way to break this addiction is through technology," he said, pledging to seek a 22% increase in funding for clean energy research, including nuclear and renewable energy.

He said he was aiming for a 75% cut in US oil imports from the Middle East by 2025.

Warning against isolationism, Mr Bush said the only way to "secure the peace" and protect Americans would be through leadership.

He vowed to fight to defend freedom, whose advance was "the great story of our time".

Mr Bush described Iran as a nation "held hostage by a small clerical elite that is isolating and repressing its people".

He urged Iranian citizens to assert their freedom from their rulers, and said "the nations of the world must not permit the Iranian regime to gain nuclear weapons".

He called on the Palestinian election victors, Hamas, to "recognise Israel, disarm, reject terrorism, and work for lasting peace".

US-led forces were winning the war in Iraq, Mr Bush insisted, saying a hasty withdrawal would "abandon our Iraqi allies... and show that a pledge from America means little."

One of his sternest critics on Iraq, Cindy Sheehan, whose son died there on US active service, was arrested in the Capitol building before the speech got under way, reportedly as she prepared to unfurl a banner.

Mr Bush also made reference to the controversial issue of human cloning, saying legislation would be drawn up to prevent "the most egregious abuses of medical research - human cloning in all its forms", the president said.

Addressing the country's financial situation, Mr Bush said the US must take on new entrants to global markets, not resort to protectionism.

"The American economy is pre-eminent - but we cannot afford to be complacent. In a dynamic world economy, we are seeing new competitors like China and India."

"We will choose to build our prosperity by leading the world economy - or shut ourselves off from trade and opportunity," he said.

He promised to reduce spending by cutting 140 non-security related government programmes, in an effort to reduce the mammoth budget deficit.

A Democrat congressman, Lloyd Doggett from Texas, called the speech "more of a state of his personal self-denial... whether it's the disaster in Iraq, the mess that he's made of our budget or the terrible cost of corruption that is plaguing this administration."

Mr Bush has been enduring a prolonged slump in public support amid ongoing conflict in Iraq and political strife at home, with his approval ratings hovering around 41%.

Correspondents say he has suffered a series of embarrassments in domestic policy during the past 12 months, and that few of the reforms touted in last year's speech have been achieved.

The president was also criticised amid administration mishandling of the devastating aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, which hit the Gulf Coast in August. In his speech he said New Orleans was being slowly rebuilt.

A series of scandals have increased domestic pressure on Mr Bush's Republicans, who are defending a majority of seats in both houses of Congress in mid-term elections this November.

Bush's "urge" is remiscent of the description of America written by American author, Kurt Vonnegut, two years ago.


Cold Turkey, by Kurt Vonnegut

Many years ago, I was so innocent I still considered it possible that we could become the humane and reasonable America so many members of my generation used to dream of. We dreamed of such an America during the Great Depression, when there were no jobs. And then we fought and often died for that dream during the Second World War, when there was no peace.

But I know now that there is not a chance in hell of America’s becoming humane and reasonable. Because power corrupts us, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Human beings are chimpanzees who get crazy drunk on power. By saying that our leaders are power-drunk chimpanzees, am I in danger of wrecking the morale of our soldiers fighting and dying in the Middle East? Their morale, like so many bodies, is already shot to pieces. They are being treated, as I never was, like toys a rich kid got for Christmas.

-------------------------

When you get to my age, if you get to my age, which is 81, and if you have reproduced, you will find yourself asking your own children, who are themselves middle-aged, what life is all about. I have seven kids, four of them adopted.

Many of you reading this are probably the same age as my grandchildren. They, like you, are being royally shafted and lied to by our Baby Boomer corporations and government.

I put my big question about life to my biological son Mark. Mark is a pediatrician, and author of a memoir, The Eden Express. It is about his crackup, straightjacket and padded cell stuff, from which he recovered sufficiently to graduate from Harvard Medical School.

Dr. Vonnegut said this to his doddering old dad: “Father, we are here to help each other get through this thing, whatever it is.” So I pass that on to you. Write it down, and put it in your computer, so you can forget it.

I have to say that’s a pretty good sound bite, almost as good as, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” A lot of people think Jesus said that, because it is so much the sort of thing Jesus liked to say. But it was actually said by Confucius, a Chinese philosopher, 500 years before there was that greatest and most humane of human beings, named Jesus Christ.

The Chinese also gave us, via Marco Polo, pasta and the formula for gunpowder. The Chinese were so dumb they only used gunpowder for fireworks. And everybody was so dumb back then that nobody in either hemisphere even knew that there was another one.

But back to people, like Confucius and Jesus and my son the doctor, Mark, who’ve said how we could behave more humanely, and maybe make the world a less painful place. One of my favorites is Eugene Debs, from Terre Haute in my native state of Indiana. Get a load of this:

Eugene Debs, who died back in 1926, when I was only 4, ran 5 times as the Socialist Party candidate for president, winning 900,000 votes, 6 percent of the popular vote, in 1912, if you can imagine such a ballot. He had this to say while campaigning:


Quote:
As long as there is a lower class, I am in it.
As long as there is a criminal element, I’m of it.
As long as there is a soul in prison, I am not free.


Doesn’t anything socialistic make you want to throw up? Like great public schools or health insurance for all?

How about Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes?

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth.

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God. …

And so on.

Not exactly planks in a Republican platform. Not exactly Donald Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney stuff.

For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes. But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course that’s Moses, not Jesus. I haven’t heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere.

“Blessed are the merciful” in a courtroom? “Blessed are the peacemakers” in the Pentagon? Give me a break!

-------------------------

(continued)

There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don’t know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president.

But, when you stop to think about it, only a nut case would want to be a human being, if he or she had a choice. Such treacherous, untrustworthy, lying and greedy animals we are!

I was born a human being in 1922 A.D. What does “A.D.” signify? That commemorates an inmate of this lunatic asylum we call Earth who was nailed to a wooden cross by a bunch of other inmates. With him still conscious, they hammered spikes through his wrists and insteps, and into the wood. Then they set the cross upright, so he dangled up there where even the shortest person in the crowd could see him writhing this way and that.

Can you imagine people doing such a thing to a person?

No problem. That’s entertainment. Ask the devout Roman Catholic Mel Gibson, who, as an act of piety, has just made a fortune with a movie about how Jesus was tortured. Never mind what Jesus said.

During the reign of King Henry the Eighth, founder of the Church of England, he had a counterfeiter boiled alive in public. Show biz again.

Mel Gibson’s next movie should be The Counterfeiter. Box office records will again be broken.

One of the few good things about modern times: If you die horribly on television, you will not have died in vain. You will have entertained us.

-------------------------

And what did the great British historian Edward Gibbon, 1737-1794 A.D., have to say about the human record so far? He said, “History is indeed little more than the register of the crimes, follies and misfortunes of mankind.”

The same can be said about this morning’s edition of the New York Times.

The French-Algerian writer Albert Camus, who won a Nobel Prize for Literature in 1957, wrote, “There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide.”

So there’s another barrel of laughs from literature. Camus died in an automobile accident. His dates? 1913-1960 A.D.

Listen. All great literature is about what a bummer it is to be a human being: Moby Dick, Huckleberry Finn, The Red Badge of Courage, the Iliad and the Odyssey, Crime and Punishment, the Bible and The Charge of the Light Brigade.

But I have to say this in defense of humankind: No matter in what era in history, including the Garden of Eden, everybody just got there. And, except for the Garden of Eden, there were already all these crazy games going on, which could make you act crazy, even if you weren’t crazy to begin with. Some of the games that were already going on when you got here were love and hate, liberalism and conservatism, automobiles and credit cards, golf and girls’ basketball.

Even crazier than golf, though, is modern American politics, where, thanks to TV and for the convenience of TV, you can only be one of two kinds of human beings, either a liberal or a conservative.

Actually, this same sort of thing happened to the people of England generations ago, and Sir William Gilbert, of the radical team of Gilbert and Sullivan, wrote these words for a song about it back then:


Quote:
I often think it’s comical
How nature always does contrive
That every boy and every gal
That’s born into the world alive
Is either a little Liberal
Or else a little Conservative.


Which one are you in this country? It’s practically a law of life that you have to be one or the other? If you aren’t one or the other, you might as well be a doughnut.

If some of you still haven’t decided, I’ll make it easy for you.

If you want to take my guns away from me, and you’re all for murdering fetuses, and love it when homosexuals marry each other, and want to give them kitchen appliances at their showers, and you’re for the poor, you’re a liberal.

If you are against those perversions and for the rich, you’re a conservative.

What could be simpler?

-------------------------

My government’s got a war on drugs. But get this: The two most widely abused and addictive and destructive of all substances are both perfectly legal.

One, of course, is ethyl alcohol. And President George W. Bush, no less, and by his own admission, was smashed or tiddley-poo or four sheets to the wind a good deal of the time from when he was 16 until he was 41. When he was 41, he says, Jesus appeared to him and made him knock off the sauce, stop gargling nose paint.

Other drunks have seen pink elephants.

And do you know why I think he is so pissed off at Arabs? They invented algebra. Arabs also invented the numbers we use, including a symbol for nothing, which nobody else had ever had before. You think Arabs are dumb? Try doing long division with Roman numerals.

We’re spreading democracy, are we? Same way European explorers brought Christianity to the Indians, what we now call “Native Americans.”

How ungrateful they were! How ungrateful are the people of Baghdad today.

So let’s give another big tax cut to the super-rich. That’ll teach bin Laden a lesson he won’t soon forget. Hail to the Chief.

That chief and his cohorts have as little to do with Democracy as the Europeans had to do with Christianity. We the people have absolutely no say in whatever they choose to do next. In case you haven’t noticed, they’ve already cleaned out the treasury, passing it out to pals in the war and national security rackets, leaving your generation and the next one with a perfectly enormous debt that you’ll be asked to repay.

Nobody let out a peep when they did that to you, because they have disconnected every burglar alarm in the Constitution: The House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, the FBI, the free press (which, having been embedded, has forsaken the First Amendment) and We the People.

About my own history of foreign substance abuse. I’ve been a coward about heroin and cocaine and LSD and so on, afraid they might put me over the edge. I did smoke a joint of marijuana one time with Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead, just to be sociable. It didn’t seem to do anything to me, one way or the other, so I never did it again. And by the grace of God, or whatever, I am not an alcoholic, largely a matter of genes. I take a couple of drinks now and then, and will do it again tonight. But two is my limit. No problem.

I am of course notoriously hooked on cigarettes. I keep hoping the things will kill me. A fire at one end and a fool at the other.

But I’ll tell you one thing: I once had a high that not even crack cocaine could match. That was when I got my first driver’s license! Look out, world, here comes Kurt Vonnegut.

And my car back then, a Studebaker, as I recall, was powered, as are almost all means of transportation and other machinery today, and electric power plants and furnaces, by the most abused and addictive and destructive drugs of all: fossil fuels.

When you got here, even when I got here, the industrialized world was already hopelessly hooked on fossil fuels, and very soon now there won’t be any more of those. Cold turkey.

Can I tell you the truth? I mean this isn’t like TV news, is it?

Here’s what I think the truth is: We are all addicts of fossil fuels in a state of denial, about to face cold turkey.

And like so many addicts about to face cold turkey, our leaders are now committing violent crimes to get what little is left of what we’re hooked on.

Aw hell, we don’t need to worry, there’s a good looking next door neighbor, with plenty to go around.

2,000,000,000,000 barrels of oil right there in the sand, just waiting to be delivered to American SUV owners.

Here’s a little something to consider.

There is 215,270.06 times as much energy in the deuterium in the oceans as the energy contained in the largest oil field on the planet (Canadian Sands).

The Chinese are building a fusion reactor at a cost of 300,000,000 Yaun.

America spent 500,000,000,000 to ensure the flow of oil from Iraq.

Indeed, we are on the right track.

What's a Yaun?

What's a Yaun? I though the Chinese currency was Renminbi

America spent 500,000,000,000 to ensure the flow of oil from Iraq.

was it not flowing before 2003 then?

Col

What's a Yaun?

Sorry, yuan

Oh, is Joey speaking again. That's a yawn! :D

was it not flowing before 2003 then?

Col

What's your point?

What's your point?
When did it stop flowing?
Col

I wanna tell the American people that they have to end their love affair with oil because it's bad for the environment.

Stone faced silence

I wanna tell the American people that they have to end their love affair with oil because it's bad for the wallets of my supporters
Thunderous applause, riotous cheers, placards up, stop clapping now.

2 minutes more drivel, placards up, clap now:rolleyes:

repeat as cure for insomnia or enforced nausea

When did it stop flowing?
Col
Col,
Your sounding like Rich.

PS. sorry for the personl attack.

Col,
Your sounding like Rich.
.

You're sounding like a republican

Col,
Your sounding like Rich.

PS. sorry for the personl attack.

Would a military attack on Iran or the imminent threat of one lead to happiness among the soccer mom voters of suburban America?

Would the sudden rise in oil prices associated with really tough sanctions be cheerfully borne by SUV drivers from sea to shining sea?

Forget about it. Nothing will happen until November is done, whatever the president says

Bush has to make sure his party win the mid-term elections in November - thats a priority, he'll do nothing to upset that goal.

Col

I must apologies again.

By my statement you thought I was defending the half a trillion we spent in Iraq.

Oh contraire: I was saying that:

1. It would have been smarter to spend the money helping the Canadians develop the Oil Sand, and end our dependence on wacko supplied oil.
2. The Chinese are spending their money developing fusion. A harbinger of the future control of the economy of the planets lie with the smart, not necessarily the bold.


While we f around muddling in global politics; the Chinese are developing the future.

So much for English becoming the language of space travel, and planetary development.

Nothing like having a hundred year head start; to see it disappear with one visionless presidency.

Well said Josie - imagine if a fraction of that money had been spent on US healthcare, (i.e. to benefit the US people) you would have a world class system.

Col

Well said Josie - imagine if a fraction of that money had been spent on US healthcare, (i.e. to benefit the US people) you would have a world class system.

Col


Technically we already do have a “world class system” but with a little vision and a few hundred billion dollars it could become the system it should.

With freedom and good health for all.

But not only is our health care in need of some improvement, but (as I have said on numerous occasions lately) Georgy Boy’s lap dog congress cut funding for student loans as well.

So much for America “leading” the way, ignorance is not bliss Mr. President.

nice thread. very important.

regardless of the motive for inclusion in the speech, the importance of ending the "addiction" to oil is paramount. the "cold turkey" metaphor is apt and accurate, as evidenced by the reaction(s) to the very idea of foregoing oil. we have to encourage one another and help one another through the discomfort of kicking the habit...

Considering the vast amount of crap that gets touted as a quotable source around here, I was pleasantly suprised at the quality of Vonnegut's writing. Whether or not one agrees with his sentiment, it is eloquently written. The bit about the real reason Bush doesn't like Arabs makes for a priceless one-liner. :D And many thanks to SJ for summarizing Bush's speech, considering I have to take anti-nasuea medication before watching the man for any length of time.

The amount of oil on this planet is finite, anyway. Any "smart" country should be looking at ways to reduce dependency on it, in my opinion....

Edit: OK, so I went back and read the WHOLE Kurt Vonnegut thing after this post. That's what the 'cold turkey' comments were about. I get it. :D

I have to take anti-nasuea medication before watching the man for any length of time.

I would've suggested just changing channels but since he's probably on all of them over there coul you not just switch it off?

I would've suggested just changing channels but since he's probably on all of them over there coul you not just switch it off?
Actually he wasn't on channel 9 (aka the 'WB' in the evenings), but their programming isn't much better. Brad and I watched a TiVo'ed "Monsters, Inc." instead. :)

If that's the Monsters Inc I'm thinking of, Boo's more intelligent than Bush :D

If that's the Monsters Inc I'm thinking of, Boo's more intelligent than Bush :D
And a heck of a lot cuter.

I love this quote regarding conservatives and liberals.


Which one are you in this country? It’s practically a law of life that you have to be one or the other? If you aren’t one or the other, you might as well be a doughnut.

If some of you still haven’t decided, I’ll make it easy for you.

If you want to take my guns away from me, and you’re all for murdering fetuses, and love it when homosexuals marry each other, and want to give them kitchen appliances at their showers, and you’re for the poor, you’re a liberal.

If you are against those perversions and for the rich, you’re a conservative.

What could be simpler?


Hooks

Nice but what if:
Don't want my guns taken away
Not really for abortion but don't like the gov sticking their nose into it
Don't really care if gays can get married, and if I knew one or both would send a gift
Are for the poor, but think most of the programs today are not working and some even adding to the problem
Not "for" the rich, but don't think they should be taxed extra just because they have money

So where does that put one?

So you believe both party's platforms have good points and bad points? That means you're a political whore with no spine who'll pander to whomever drops a dollar into your campaign bucket.

So you believe both party's platforms have good points and bad points? That means you're a political whore with no spine who'll pander to whomever drops a dollar into your campaign bucket.
That doesn't sound like your voice, Kraj

That doesn't sound like your voice, Kraj
Did you notice the irony?

Did you notice the irony?
Were you quoting Fofa

We haven't had a decent arguement in days. What going on around here?

So you believe both party's platforms have good points and bad points? That means you're a political whore with no spine who'll pander to whomever drops a dollar into your campaign bucket.
OK I'll bite
I never said they didn't.
And for these, what 4 points, let me just say, Whatever :rolleyes:

Were you quoting Fofa
No, I describing how people in the middle are viewed/treated by those at either end. Well, honestly mostly by the far right, but some on the far left would think like that too.

We haven't had a decent arguement in days. What going on around here?
A few days of relative calm and your trigger finger gets itchy? ;)

OK I'll bite
I never said they didn't.
And for these, what 4 points, let me just say, Whatever :rolleyes:
Ok, so I know that sarcasm and irony are pretty difficult to convey in a forum setting, but I thought the 'start/end irony' tags were a pretty clear indicator that I was not actually suggesting you are a spineless political whore. Especially when in the context of Vonnegut's intentionally offensive oversimplication of political alignment. Suggested reading: "In Praise of Folly".

No, I describing how people in the middle are viewed/treated by those at either end. Well, honestly mostly by the far right, but some on the far left would think like that too.
;)

So in other words, Fofa.

I’m in the mood to go after the right, these days. 5 years of Georgy Boy has just about done me in.

So in other words, Fofa.
Eh, not really. FoFa takes a hard right stance on many issues, but he wasn't b.s.ing in his earlier post. I've seen him argue from a more liberal stance on other issues. He's not nearly as polarized as the powers that be would like everyone to be.

I’m in the mood to go after the right, these days. 5 years of Georgy Boy has just about done me in.
No argument here. I just try and avoid exposure to politics that upset me these days. When you see the President on TV and visualize him...well, let's just say something happening that posting it online might get you a visit form the Secret Service... you know it's time to take a break.

When you see the President on TV and visualize him....
makes me head straight to the lav :mad:

don't like the gov sticking their nose into it


Then what's the point of having one ?:confused:

makes me head straight to the lav :mad:
To produce yet another Bush look-a-like? :D

(That oughta earn another "Eeew" from Selena :D )

Ok, so I know that sarcasm and irony are pretty difficult to convey in a forum setting, but I thought the 'start/end irony' tags were a pretty clear indicator that I was not actually suggesting you are a spineless political whore.
Believe it or not I got that.
And my comments were directed for that portion outside the irony tags, not really required, but I was bored and wanted to type something :D

I’m in the mood to go after the right, these days. 5 years of Georgy Boy has just about done me in.
But not all the "right" agrees with George, maybe some just support him cause we know what can happen when you don't and you have troops in a bad area (like Vietnam).
And that he is better than what anyone else put forward.
Some times it really is the lessor of the two evils (so to speak).
:eek:

But not all the "right" agrees with George, maybe some just support him cause we know what can happen when you don't and you have troops in a bad area (like Vietnam).
And that he is better than what anyone else put forward.
Some times it really is the lessor of the two evils (so to speak).
:eek:


Well it’s certainly true the Dems have been lame for some time now. But where is this over budget Republican government going to stop.

Giving tax breaks to the richest.
Giving tax breaks to move your business over seas
Refusing to even consider import tax
Cutting funding for medical and education for the working poor
Spending 500,000,000,000 dollars on a police action
Creating the largest bureaucracy, in probably the world, but certainly our biggest ever.
Demoralizing FEMA
Cutting fines to Coal Mining Operations for safety violations and killing 15 people in two months
Transferring yet another trillion to the ultra rich. (This part is a guess)
Alienating Europe
Letting the Chinese be the next country to kick our asses. Although they too have some really big economic surprises ahead.

Where does it end?

Why doesn't Bush spend some money with Engineers to reduce oil usage so that we are not so dependant on oil.

I see Honda are trying with thier Hydrogen Engine.

Oil is in demand as Engineers have built engines this way, why not get them to think a little more to get them to think of a way to use less, efficiency......

Robert88

The amount of oil on this planet is finite, anyway. Any "smart" country should be looking at ways to reduce dependency on it, in my opinion....


Thats what Iran are trying to do. Bush is up-in-arms about Iran developing nuclear power, yet in his speech he says its ok for the USA to do it.:rolleyes: Is that because the USA can be trusted not to drop a nuclear bomb and the Iranians can't?

Col

I'm confused, isn't Iran a democracy? :confused:
of course, silly me, they don't call themselves Christians

Thats what Iran are trying to do. Bush is up-in-arms about Iran developing nuclear power, yet in his speech he says its ok for the USA to do it.:rolleyes: Is that because the USA can be trusted not to drop a nuclear bomb and the Iranians can't?

Col


You're twising the facts.

I'm confused, isn't Iran a democracy? :confused:
of course, silly me, they don't call themselves Christians

Why is it that Atheist feel the need to go on an anti God mission all the time?

Why is it that Atheist feel the need to go on an anti God mission all the time?
Why is it that so called christians see people that follow a different faith as the enemy ? :confused:

You're twising the facts.
what are the facts ?

You're twising the facts.
So Bush did not say he wanted to expand the nuclear energy programme? and Bush is not against Iran doing the same?

Col

So Bush did not say he wanted to expand the nuclear energy programme? and Bush is not against Iran doing the same?

Col


That’s exactly right Col.


According to reports from the physicist at the IAEA the process Iran is using to enrich the uranium is a process only needed for nuclear weapons.

Something about an extra neutron causes the whole thing to melt down instead of explode. That makes it necessary to process it more accurately for weapons. Apparently this extra step is so expensive and unnecessary for fuel grade enrichment that it provides strong enough evidence that they are going to build bombs with it.

I know it’s hard for you to resist anti American chanting, but there are plenty of issues that are worthy of criticism, without corrupting the ones that aren’t.

I know it’s hard for you to resist anti American chanting, but there are plenty of issues that are worthy of criticism, without corrupting the ones that aren’t.

I see, so according to America, it's ok for it to have a nuclear arsenal, but not evil Muslims ? :confused:

I see, so according to America, it's ok for it to have a nuclear arsenal, but not evil Muslims ? :confused:
Here’s the historic rules for coming to a gun fight.

If you bring a gun to a gun fight it is assumed you are going to use it. The rules of self preservation dictate that.

So if your going to make a nuclear weapon you better be able to back it up with more than just technology. You better have a means to ensure you are not killed.

The Iranians will not prove themselves worthy of such a weapon. They will die in the attempt to become a nuclear power.

They are the ones playing the high stakes game. They are the ones that say “we are ready to enter the arms race”. Russia thought the same thing and look what it got them.

Want to roll the dice with the big boys, you better be able to back it up.

Russia thought the same thing and look what it got them.
.

Well according to the American version of history it got them freedom and democracy.
This can't be the same for Iran though can it? :rolleyes:

Well according to the American version of history it got them freedom and democracy.
This can't be the same for Iran though can it? :rolleyes:

It the same for everybody that is willing to die for their version of the truth. Unfortunately for Iran they will meet with only death. Because after they run us out, they will have to deal with civil war.

That is the type of war that is coming to the entire region.

Muslim against Muslim, Arab against Persian, we are merely a small part of the destruction that is to be visited on them in the next decade. The signs are everywhere.

They cannot be allowed to possess nuclear weapons. Period.

I think you are just wanting to bash America some more. I can’t actually believe you advocate that Iran has nuclear weapons capability.

Rich,

Have you noticed that most everyone here has tired of auguring with you?

You’re so predictable. It would be different if your ravings were at least 30% correct.

Or if they at least were balanced, in the 90-10 range, of anti American ravings.

Thats what Iran are trying to do. Bush is up-in-arms about Iran developing nuclear power, yet in his speech he says its ok for the USA to do it.:rolleyes: Is that because the USA can be trusted not to drop a nuclear bomb and the Iranians can't?
Yes, or we don't care what you think, WE HAVE THE NUKES, NAANI NAANI BOO BOO :p

Rich,

It would be different if your ravings were at least 30% correct.
.


I haven't raved about anything Josey, stop smoking that funny stuff and learn to read.
America claims to be the great arsenal of democracy yet sees another as a threat. Why so? :confused:

Yes, or we don't care what you think, WE HAVE THE NUKES, NAANI NAANI BOO BOO :p

and George Bush with the finger on the trigger :eek: :rolleyes:

Giving tax breaks to the richest.
Show me the tax law that states (everyone over $1,000,000 in earnings get this tax break (or something to that affect).

Giving tax breaks to move your business over seas
There maybe a tax break that can apply to moving overseas, but I don't recall (and I could be mistaken here) any tax break that states, MOVE YOUR BUSINEESS OUT OF THE COUNTRY TO BE ELIGIABLE FOR THIS TAX BREAK, basically.

Refusing to even consider import tax
NAFTA kinda disqualifes most of that, and the public dosn't want it in general because it will raise the prices of EVERYTHING since we do participate in a global economy.

Cutting funding for medical and education for the working poor
They cut a lot of funding, how else can they support IRAQ!

Spending 500,000,000,000 dollars on a police action
Only by cutting spending :p

Demoralizing FEMA
Sounded like a good idea at the time

Cutting fines to Coal Mining Operations for safety violations and killing 15 people in two months
Owned stock in the companies

Transferring yet another trillion to the ultra rich. (This part is a guess)
So this must be the highly publisied RICH welfare checks going out weekly? :confused:

Alienating Europe
They are alien, whats the big deal :rolleyes:

That's funny, Fofa

I have to actually get some work done today being in the middle is very tiring.

being in the middle is very tiring.

Can't cope, eh :rolleyes: :p

Can't cope, eh :rolleyes: :p
Cope?

With the incessant whining of the far left, or the irrational non-logic of the right?

It’s quite frankly hard to determine which is more abrasive.

Either way they are interfering with my work.

Either way they are interfering with my work.

Sweeping the floor that difficult ?:confused:

Sweeping the floor that difficult ?:confused:

Actually yes. Finding those little dirt clods is hard work.

Actually yes. Finding those little dirt clods is hard work.
If clods are what you're looking for, what easier place to find them than the 'Cooler?. :D

If clods are what you're looking for, what easier place to find them than the 'Cooler?. :D
This isn't the cooler :cool:

His speech comes one month after the new budget which reduced the funding for the National Renewable Energy Lab by 28 million.

You got the demon on the run there Georgy Boy.

They cannot be allowed to possess nuclear weapons. Period.


Iran have stated that they are developing nuclear power, not nuclear weapons.

Incidentally, when GWB was giving his Union address on urging Americans to cut down on fuel / oil etc etc.
Did you know that on that day, he used over 4,000 gallons of fuel by using various means of transport?. . . . . . in one day?????
Aparently whenever he uses a helicopter, there's always 2 because one is a decoy. Air-force one uses one gallon per mile.

Seems its the usual American president thing. . . . . . don't do as I do, do as I say

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/news/tm_objectid=16668324%26method=full%26siteid=62484-name_page.html

Col

Did you know that on that day, he used over 4,000 gallons of fuel by using various means of transport?. . . . . . in one day?????
Aparently whenever he uses a helicopter, there's always 2 because one is a decoy. Air-force one uses one gallon per mile.

Col

You'd think he'd use something more appropriate, which in his case would be a donkey

You'd think he'd use something more appropriate, which in his case would be a donkey

But what would he do with his ass?:confused:

But what would he do with his ass?:confused:
Continue talking out of it I suppose:rolleyes:

No reason for him to change

Col

Continue talking out of it I suppose:rolleyes:

Col
There's got to be something seriously wrong with his digestive system :rolleyes: