Pat, please do delete these; one huge vote for it...regarding the thread, I've come across this issue time after time working in the public schools and believe me when I say, there is no hotter or more sensitive subject anywhere in the state...today, we learned that an Aurora Colorado police officer was shot and killed by an illegal immigrant and the whole community is terribly upset to lose any man working to protect us all, illegal or legal, but far worse to lose someone in this manner simply out of sheer stupidity because this was the kind of person that helped every AMERICAN, without regard to race, color, creed, or legal status because these people are what make our system work at it's best! He was shot point blank with no history at all between himself and his killer, just "something to do" because apparently escaping Mexico into the US in the first place and in itself, wasn't good enough...you're damn right I hope he fries because no country needs people like this!




How about the Catholic priest from America who carried out a lifetime of abuse against children that was allowed to escape to Mexico by the Bishop
He wasn't Hispanic who's to blame there?
Tell you what why not just bomb the crap out of Mexico, end of problem:rolleyes:

Tell you what why not just bomb the crap out of Mexico, end of problem:rolleyes:
They can't - it'll spread the military too thinly. They're needed to sacrifice themselves in Iraq.

Anyway, the Iraq war is costing $1billion per month to the USA so they may need to have a whip round before they start another war.:rolleyes:

Col

Anyway, the Iraq war is costing $1billion per month to the USA so they may need to have a whip round before they start another war.:rolleyes:


Perhaps you could give us a loan (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4757181.stm) ;)

Perhaps you could give us a loan ;)
Yea! As Rich pointed out in that other thread, Iraq is the U.K.'s fault anywho. :rolleyes:

Perhaps you could give us a loan (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4757181.stm) ;)
I was wrong in my quote - I just checked it and its actually $5.8billion per month:eek: ref (http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_cost_111804,00.html?ESRC=eb.n)

Col

DAN-CAT:I'm left confused as to your point.

Is your post an eulogy for the murdered policemen or an insinuation that illegal immigrants are inhuman?

A eulogy maybe because it makes me sick that the US, in large part, like any other solid nation, has it's pros and cons, but regardless of where you live, when someone is just trying to do their job, and admittedly, a dangerous one, we shouldn't lose people to truly pointless circumstances like this; in the same vain as any war, Iraqi or otherwise...it just highlights the loss when you find out that so many other processes in place failed to identify this person before he could make the plans he made...

Yes, the US plays big brother all too often and throughout our short history it has definitely bit us in the ass but not unlike any other nation's past, remember that...

This person who killed an officer and who is here illegally, inhuman, not at all. My point being that at some point, it would be great for more nations, especially your neighbors to get on the same page with the bigger threats of today; terrorism, major crime levels so that we can cut all the red tape and BS and start working together for a change instead of playing world politics and feeling good about winning that game...

Mexico is blatantly wrong because their stance was clearly world attention and credit in some sick way for saving this person's life eventhough he ended anothers...so if some drunk from anywhere USA visits Tijuana and kills a Mexican highway patrolman, escapes back to the US and Mexico wants him...what do we do? - Hopefully send him back to Mexico with our compliments and let him face the music, as he should, not protect him but there's the all might lawyer question so I guess it depends on his council's skills at manipulation!

Bottomline, if you're an A**hole, I don't care if you're white, black, orange, yellow, American, Japanese, English, or whatever. the only label that fits is A**hole and you should be made to answer for your actions with the blessing of whatever government, nation, peoples, etc...it's hard enough to deal with mother nature and natural disasters that affect us all but I'm sure there are lawyers trying to file lawsuits against her too!?#?$!

DAN-CAT:

A eulogy maybe because it makes me sick that the US, in large part, like any other solid nation, has it's pros and cons, but regardless of where you live, when someone is just trying to do their job, and admittedly, a dangerous one, we shouldn't lose people to truly pointless circumstances like this; in the same vain as any war, Iraqi or otherwise...it just highlights the loss when you find out that so many other processes in place failed to identify this person before he could make the plans he made...

Yes, the US plays big brother all too often and throughout our short history it has definitely bit us in the ass but not unlike any other nation's past, remember that...

This person who killed an officer and who is here illegally, inhuman, not at all. My point being that at some point, it would be great for more nations, especially your neighbors to get on the same page with the bigger threats of today; terrorism, major crime levels so that we can cut all the red tape and BS and start working together for a change instead of playing world politics and feeling good about winning that game...

Mexico is blatantly wrong because their stance was clearly world attention and credit in some sick way for saving this person's life eventhough he ended anothers...so if some drunk from anywhere USA visits Tijuana and kills a Mexican highway patrolman, escapes back to the US and Mexico wants him...what do we do? - Hopefully send him back to Mexico with our compliments and let him face the music, as he should, not protect him but there's the all might lawyer question so I guess it depends on his council's skills at manipulation!

Bottomline, if you're an A**hole, I don't care if you're white, black, orange, yellow, American, Japanese, English, or whatever. the only label that fits is A**hole and you should be made to answer for your actions with the blessing of whatever government, nation, peoples, etc...it's hard enough to deal with mother nature and natural disasters that affect us all but I'm sure there are lawyers trying to file lawsuits against her too!?#?$!

Here we go again the US demands extradition from countries of those murder, terrorist suspects etc. but absolutely flatly refuses to return the favour, it flatly refuses to accept any other country's juristiction over American citizens, troops etc., what sheer hypocrisy !:mad: :rolleyes:

Rich, you are by far my favorite American-basher because you refuse to open your mind to the fact that this happens everywhere and I am in no way agreeing with that practice regardless of where it's happening...and certainly not in charge of those decisions like you imply, "Here we go again the US demands extradition from countries of those murder, terrorist suspects etc. but absolutely flatly refuses to return the favour, it flatly refuses to accept any other country's juristiction over American citizens, troops etc., what sheer hypocrisy!"

Are you not disgusted that a PERSON was murdered who serves people and because two close governments can't agree on the press and attention, that the criminal will sit free in a jail cell for 30-40 years that we all have to pay for all the while, the officers family has to start all over....dark man, really dark but hey, you have a right to it so close the blinds all the way and enjoy...

At this point, I don't mind saying at all, and of course with your anti-American everything twist, that my boldness offered will forever be misinterpreted, fine...still, this forum as I remember it has far too much Country bashing, led by your irreverance.

My mind set and genuine offering of support to whomever and wherever they reside is easy to follow and document...it would be really nice if busy users of this forum like yourself would follow in those footsteps because as a returning "new" user, constant comments coming from you and a few others REALLY makes this place dark!

If you're not from here, you'd certainly never understand the TRUE freedoms we enjoy across so many lines because the moral majority here does all that we can on most fronts to support anyone and everyone but money, politics, systems all both good and bad interfere, just like anywhere else so hate us more later...take a break from time to time...peace!

If you are from the US somewhere, all I can say is WOW...shockingly misguided, misinformed, and LOST...I'm sorry for you man!

Are you not disgusted that a PERSON was murdered who serves people and because two close governments can't agree on the press and attention, that the criminal will sit free in a jail cell for 30-40 years that we all have to pay for all the while, the officers family has to start all over....dark man, really dark but hey, you have a right to it so close the blinds all the way and enjoy...


Convicted murderers are not sentenced to death all the time. I still don't get the relevance of all this with subject of illegal immigration. All you seem to be arguing about is the pros and cons of the death sentence. I'm still confused...

Some users even adversely affect me...on the offered subject of illegal immigration, I was just pointing out that with so much time passed it's seriously time to make changes because every state is seeing critical need services being depleted by people we cannot track because they make themselves dissapear in our systems so quickly and easily; education, welfare, job opportunities, medical services, legal services, on and on...down the drain because they put nothing back.

From this level of illegal immigration, over $500million+ in Colorado alone is lost/used every year where it could be used to support people who work hard and make little money to live on, really improve educational standards because CO is one of the worst, general crime prevention, and so on...

At the criminal illegal immigration level, that just highlights the problem a hundred times over. I don't just talk about it either. I'm very proud to have been helping to find small community solutions to react to these issues as well and even helped to enact new Colorado State HOA laws that address several illegal immigration housing/ownership issues...so I'm not all talk and no action...I'm trying to help but with the sensitivity and human factor that seems to illude others because immigration built and made the US what it is...

Yes, an open door for some people here to continue to bash but bottomline, we (the collective moral majority) lead because of the combined strength of all our people and obviously very few of us can stake a claim to be resident Americans...

Maybe some nations are glad their doors are and have been relatively closed since whenever but that also lends itself to the fact that all of those nations trail behind everyone else; one of my homelands, China included because the relatively few that govern that great nation compared to her massive population simply don't see the value like other great individuals like Bruce Lee tried their whole lives to share...now there's a man that had a fantastic effect! There have been no greater legal immigrants and contributors to the world and the US than Mr. Lee...I may have been only 4 when he died but his effect on me as I learned of him has always been great and people like this can and have made a difference so I try to do my part whenever and wherever I can...

Maybe some nations are glad their doors are and have been relatively closed since whenever but that also lends itself to the fact that all of those nations trail behind everyone else; one of my homelands, China included because the relatively few that govern that great nation compared to her massive population simply don't see the value like other great individuals like Bruce Lee tried their whole lives to share...now there's a man that had a fantastic effect! There have been no greater legal immigrants and contributors to the world and the US than Mr. Lee...I may have been only 4 when he died but his effect on me as I learned of him has always been great and people like this can and have made a difference so I try to do my part whenever and wherever I can...

Bruce Lee came from Hong Kong actually, not mainland China and in this great land of freedom Lee wasn't an American and therefore wasn't acceptable to Americans as the star in his own T.V. creation.
Carradine was given the job instead. Still as long as you continue to believe that the US is the bastion of freedom and equality, who are the educated to argue otherwise?
Talk about brainwashed :rolleyes:

Are you not disgusted that a PERSON was murdered who serves people and because two close governments can't agree on the press and attention, that the criminal will sit free in a jail cell for 30-40 years that we all have to pay for all the while, the officers family has to start all over....dark man, really dark but hey, you have a right to it so close the blinds all the way and enjoy...


What an absurd question, I'm saddened and angered every day when I read how many innocent lives are being lost in order to protect Americans.
What utter nonsense, I and other erstwhile members of this forum continue to point the hypocrisy being displayed here. American policemen face armed idiots everyday because of your love of the gun above all else because it's written on a scrap of two hundred-year-old paper. When you end this stupid craze and start to protect your own then you can lecture the rest of the world. Still until then it's much easier to simply sprout the tired "Anti-American" speech

that the criminal will sit free in a jail cell for 30-40 years that we all have to pay for all the while,


I take it that you are in favour of capital punishment. This article makes interexting reading, it is the final words of people on death row, in case you don't wish to read it all let me quote one.

NAPOLEON BEAZLEY
EXECUTED: May 28, 2002.
AGE: 25.
AGE AT TIME OF OFFENCE: 17.
CRIME: 'Carjacking murder' of 63-year-old John Luttig.
LAST STATEMENT: The act I committed to put me here was not just heinous, it was senseless. But the person that committed that act is no longer here - I am. I'm not going to struggle physically against any restraints. I'm not going to shout, use profanity or make idle threats. Understand, though, that I'm not only upset, but I'm saddened by what is happening here tonight.
I'm not only saddened, but disappointed that a system supposed to protect and uphold what is just and right can be so much like me when I made the same shameful mistake.
If someone tried to dispose of everyone here for participating in this killing, I'd scream a resounding, 'No'. I'd tell them to give them all the gift that they would not give me and that's to give them all a second chance.
I'm sorry that I am here. I'm sorry that you're all here. I'm sorry that John Luttig died. And I'm sorry that it was something in me that caused all of this to happen to begin with.
Tonight we tell the world that there are no second chances in the eyes of justice. Tonight, we tell our children that in some instances, in some cases, killing is right. No one wins tonight. No one gets closure. No one walks away victorious.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=406572&in_page_id=1770#StartComments

Brian

"What an absurd question, I'm saddened and angered every day when I read how many innocent lives are being lost in order to protect Americans."

WOW, so you've got respect for police protecting us but since you've got all of us as unworthy bastards, they're wasting their time and lives protecting us...that may be one of the most pathetic statements I've ever heard, congrats!

Where did I raise any flags for the US being the all incompassing bastion of freedom and equality? Seriously, have you ever been here? There's the glass half full and half empty people but you sound like the glass is broke and shards are flying at your eye person...again, dark thinking for someone obviously quite bright...right?

So in our land of freedom, because of the drastic attitudes and denials he faced over and over, you'd even have the world's best martial artist quit before any of his dreams are attempted or realized simply because obstacles he faced were harsh and unfair...The whore town that is Hollywood, CA, especially in the early 60's, were to blame for their lack of vision and blatant racism against Chinese people, that's why he wasn't cast. Thank God Bruce shared none of your excuses or pity for himself or people when he continued to prove his passion and life's work for us all by helping to showcase the Chinese culture and power of his art. He was smart by simply going back to Hong Kong, meeting back up with his best students and friends, and Raymond Chow to make his blockbusters! By the sound of it, you've got him living today, having done nothing with his life because taking chances would be too risky, broke, bald, weighing about 365 pounds, eating a box of chocolate covered cheesecake Crispy Cremes and not being able to even pee straight much less break a board in half with one finger!?#?$!

Capital punishment...you bet, because what ALWAYS gets lost in the acts that created the need for it in the first place, are the acts themselves and the terrible retelling of it all in court right in front of family, friends, and kids. Of course the individual in retrospect will almost always feel sorrow, especially when facing capital punishment but again, what is lost are the losses themselves and having people here, anywhere that commit such crimes against people simply don't deserve to be around. Everyone wants to feel better as soon as they can so why remember what happened because that's sad...what crap!

Sure, I would prefer an "ABSALOM"; some island or planet where these people would all be exiled to forever and alone to do whatever the hell they wanted to each other because capital punishment, if though in single context, IS terrible but why do so many people forget that if people didn't do the horrific things that they did, there would be no need for such a decision.

Sure, that scrap of 230 year old paper isn't perfect but you forget, it wasn't written by "Americans", as you'd accuse us of...point the finger in the other direction...It isn't the cure all or cause of problems here just like your leaders fool you into thinking everything is so safe, apparently there and not here because we kill our cops or something and aren't suppose to ask questions about how we want to live...

I sincerely hope the strides you feel Europe has made over the past 200 odd years have been significant but certainly no greater than the collective masses that have all come HERE to help us move farther...Like it or not, we are YOU so don't hate and bash because it's a mirror...

Brianwarnock: Woman dragged to her death in Douglas County: "Douglas County investigators found her body Monday. According to the sheriff's department, Luz Maria Franco-Fierros was dragged behind a vehicle for more than a mile through the Surrey Ridge neighborhood.

Her boyfriend, 36-year old Jose Luis Rubi-Nava, is accused of first degree murder. Investigators say Rubi-Nava tied a rope around the woman's neck and then dragged her behind the vehicle. It took more than three days for investigators to identify the body. Fingerprints matching voting records eventually helped to determine the body was in fact Franco-Fierros."

Now, he'll make his way through our tedious system for ten years plus but in that time, I'm sure he will at some point make calls to his ex-girlfriends family and his kids saying, "Hey guys. How have you all been? Doing good in school I hope. Keep those grades up and have fun at the prom next week. How about that CSI show huh mom? Still cooking that potroast we all love? Dad, how about those Bears huh. Boy, that quarterback sure has an arm!"

It should be legal for them to execute him themselves for taking their mother from them but since everyone wants to forget what happened and show mercy to someone, it may as well be him...because after 8 odd years down the road, he's "changed", sorry, and regrets his actions...maybe leaving her last month and moving to Seattle for the cool damp air would have been a better decision?

Guns...here we go...yes, there is the population that hug these like nothing else and there is the population that avoids them like a plague...I'm curious; East of Eden is your basement room or something you think actually exists?

Come on, crime, violence, etc. has no rules, no boundaries, and no laws so we have to put into place, whatever mechanisms we can to deter these activities, especially as they escalate and if that means capital punishment, sure, until Absalom is found and used instead!

Alright guys, I'll admit first that I get riled up about these kind of things and am frustrated because I'm fortunate not to have these direct issues facing me or loved ones but certainly feel for those who do and try to always help in any way we can but you'd have to admit that certainly some of your comments truly only would offend the moral majority over here and that's simply not a worthy opinion because again, we are you, especially this region because it's where our most recent ancestors came from so like I said, bashing the US is bashing yourself and feeling the way you do with blanket statements based on what I've shared only leads to more dark thinking and I really hope you're lives are full and not as dark as some of your comments cast.

I'm truly interested in arguing more points and issues with you because, like us both, we can learn some things and both get wiser...:cool:

WOW, so you've got respect for police protecting us but since you've got all of us as unworthy bastards, they're wasting their time and lives protecting us...
Where did I say that? please read before engaging keypad


Where did I raise any flags for the US being the all incompassing bastion of freedom and equality?


Here

If you're not from here, you'd certainly never understand the TRUE freedoms we enjoy across so many lines because the moral majority here does all that we can on most fronts to support anyone and everyone :rolleyes:

and again here oddly enough

So in our land of freedom,

The whore town that is Hollywood, CA, especially in the early 60's, were to blame for their lack of vision and blatant racism against Chinese people, that's why he wasn't cast.
Well when I went to school Hollywood was in that great land of freedom and equal opportunity, IE the United States which was full of Americans oddly enough , when did it get moved to another country?:rolleyes:

Thank God Bruce shared none of your excuses
What excuses are you accusing me of making, I'm not the one here proclaiming the greatness of America


He was smart by simply going back to Hong Kong, meeting back up with his best students and friends, and Raymond Chow to make his blockbusters!
He was forced to return to Hong Kong because the land of equal opportunity wasn't interested in him because he didn't signify the "all American hero"

Sure, that scrap of 230 year old paper isn't perfect but you forget, it wasn't written by "Americans", as you'd accuse us of...

Who wrote it then, a Chinese man?:rolleyes:

Like it or not, we are YOU so don't hate and bash because it's a mirror...

You are nothing like me or the majority of the Europeans you claim to hail from


It should be legal for them to execute him themselves

You mean another lynch mob lust for revenge, just like Iraq and Afghanistan, you haven't progressed much over two centuries have you?

Come on, crime, violence, etc. has no rules, no boundaries, and no laws so we have to put into place, whatever mechanisms we can to deter these activities, especially as they escalate and if that means capital punishment, sure, until Absalom is found and used instead!


Well I hate to point the obvious out to you, but if capital punishment is a so called deterrent then by the very reason you started this thread in the first place it isn't working. Capital punishment is nothing more than a lust for revenge

Guns...here we go...yes, there is the population that hug these like nothing else
Yes too many for a nation that calls itself civilised
I'm well aware of the facts of the crime that you keep mentioning but two wrongs do not make a right, unless you look through the book of excuses that is

You can't tell that I have tried diligently to admit that no, the US or any other place is far from perfect but depending on one's state of mind, efforts, determination, and the like, anyone can make something of themselves if they choose. You're picking apart everything and yourself, not reading between the lines and trying to see the bigger picture but that's okay...if we could sit down and have a beer, it would be much easier...cheers! clinck...

"Capital punishment is nothing more than a lust for revenge..." - Come on Rich, you missed the point again...something gory and terrifying happened FIRST to someone so this had to be created to deal with it because a jail term just doesn't cut it!?#?$! These criminals now get the opportunity to see everything progress, even from jail; politics, movies, culture, people, three squares a day, shelter; sure they have to deal with guards with big guns and maybe Bubba wants them as his girlfriend on weekends but still, it beats having been gruesomely murdered and in those final moments knowing they were going to die before the lights go out forever and not even knowing what happened to them after that...yeah, capital punishment, you bet!!!

...In all your snippets of my comments, I was either quoting back you, to you or was simply admitting that we have our fair share of issues...tada...just like everyone else!

Come on, our President is...a cartoon!?#?$?!

Our trade deficit is so large, it equates to a little over $40,000 for every single person in this country to pay off; do I lose sleep over that, of course not because I don't have a bill collector mailing me each week for my share. I just get my ass out there and work to pay my far share of taxes to keep things going!

*** I'll give you someone great to bash that I'll READILY JOIN IN and that's my loser brother-in-law!?$#?$!

But again, still, there are plenty of incredible places here, like other places, to visit and marvel at and depending on one's lifestyle, needs, issues, and objectives, it's pretty easy to make a good lifestyle and life here as well;

On a personal note, I have three jobs that I love because none of them feel like the heavy word of "work" as it is normally described, making the kind of money I didn't think I could until I was well over fifty, running two Pro-Am Championship Golf leagues just for fun that I fund alone, spending time with my folks watching football, playing golf, making ebay stuff to sell, writing a book recounting our family's restaurant ownership history, various collections and adding to them, restoring classic pinball machines, additions/upgrades to my home, teaching part time on my breaktime at a childrens school at my primary job,...so, busy but it all fits!:D

GML - is there any chance you could use the quote facility? I find that if you quote someone using the "" it gets very confusing as to who is saying what exactly.

I thought you would have known that being a "returning" member:rolleyes:

Col

Sure, that scrap of 230 year old paper isn't perfect but you forget, it wasn't written by "Americans", as you'd accuse us of...point the finger in the other direction...
Blaming it on someone else is not necessarily the answer, thats just an American trait. Just because its 230 years old doesn't mean its cast in stone.:rolleyes:
Maybe it would be good to amend it and bring it out of the "wild west" times where the gun is God.

Yes, the US plays big brother all too often and throughout our short history it has definitely bit us in the ass but not unlike any other nation's past, remember that...
Then why doesn't the US learn to keep its nose out of other peoples countries and stop trying to be something it isn't - all it ever succeeds in doing is making matters worse for the rest of the world, and tens of thousands of innocents die because of it


Col

Pat, please do delete these; one huge vote for it...regarding the thread, I've come across this issue time after time working in the public schools and believe me when I say, there is no hotter or more sensitive subject anywhere in the state...today, we learned that an Aurora Colorado police officer was shot and killed by an illegal immigrant and the whole community is terribly upset to lose any man working to protect us all, illegal or legal, but far worse to lose someone in this manner simply out of sheer stupidity because this was the kind of person that helped every AMERICAN, without regard to race, color, creed, or legal status because these people are what make our system work at it's best! He was shot point blank with no history at all between himself and his killer, just "something to do" because apparently escaping Mexico into the US in the first place and in itself, wasn't good enough...you're damn right I hope he fries because no country needs people like this!

SUCH A HUGE ISSUE, it's just frustrating that numerous governments and political factions can't come together sooner to truly address this for us all...FYI: The US and Colorado government had to cut a deal with the Mexican government this past summer for the extradition of a mexican national who killed a Denver Colorado officer and wounded another...his reasoning, he was sure that all police officers wore bullet proof vests so he shot at them just to "scare" them because he figured they were wearing their vests...we got him back here but because of the deal with Mexico, he will not be eligible for the death penalty. Now I ask, where the hell is the justice, on any scale, for that and the officers family for their loss having absolutely no value to anyone for his loss to his family, the community, his friends, coworkers, etc...?


It is not just in Mexico that this occurs, if he had managed to escape to the UK or europe the same deal would be cut, in the a EC country cannot send a back someone to face trial where they may face the death penalty.

In theory if Bin Larden appear in Germany. They could not give him to the US unless the US agreed not to execute him..

GML - is there any chance you could use the quote facility? I find that if you quote someone using the "" it gets very confusing as to who is saying what exactly.

I thought you would have known that being a "returning" member

Col

*** Thanks...I'm catching up...haven't been on the forum since 2003...patience...:eek:

Blaming it on someone else is not necessarily the answer, thats just an American trait. Just because its 230 years old doesn't mean its cast in stone.:rolleyes:
Maybe it would be good to amend it and bring it out of the "wild west" times where the gun is God.

Then why doesn't the US learn to keep its nose out of other peoples countries and stop trying to be something it isn't - all it ever succeeds in doing is making matters worse for the rest of the world, and tens of thousands of innocents die because of it

Col

Now, see ...there you guys go again throwing blankets over everything and everyone here and you should know enough about people to know that not everyone here thinks that way. I even (try) to give you credit as a nation that hopefully, there is far more free thought there as well than what is being shared here...but, maybe not...that could be the overwhelming differences between people in general and nations...

As much of Europe that I appreciate you have more than your fair share of histories, nightmares, politics, attitudes, and duress...more in fact because obviously, you're far older than the civilized 230-year old scrap of paper land!#?$?!:p

Our scrap of paper is the constant source of debate elsewhere but also here...There's a lot about it that gets challenged that, in my opinion, shouldn't be but does because we actually try to give everyone there just do in making a point for and against any part of it to see if that warrants a change and that's the power of that scrap of paper.

One challenge that is amazingly foolish to most here is the notion that the US flag offends some people here and so they put together a petition trying to have it removed from display in certain places in the US, including veteran memorials, schools, government buildings...see, we have a system that still allows for such a charade and costs time and money to monitor but we still do this because, strange or not, stupid or not, it's fair.

Sure if a nation simply makes no allowance for this kind of thing, great...saves time and money but it also prevents some free thought that might actually lead to a better way of doing some things and I'd rather have those opportunities than not!

That's when I'm very happy to say, as you would facing the Union Jack's elimination, GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM IF YOU DON'T LIKE OUR FLAG, BUT OUR MONEY SURE AS HELL SPENDS, DOESN'T IT?...!

Personally, I'm glad you guys are so attached to your homelands...that's what makes things better, competitive around competing places all over will only make us both stronger but...yes, MY MONEY'S ON US; yes, double meaning meant!:D