Ok... we're having a huge fight.
I want life insurance from my company. I can insure myself for up to $220,000, and my spouse for half that amount. It will cost me about $60 a paycheck, every two weeks.

Since I am insuring myself to the maximum, (and that is over the $70k guaranteed issue amount) we each have to fill out an Evidence of Insurability form.

My take on the matter, 'I care enough about my husband and my children to know that, for MY share of the $60 a month, upon my premature death, they will be taken care of.' My husband can grieve for me, pay off whatever bills he needs to, pay off the house, bury me... and still be able to take a couple months off from work to deal with his grief before he hooks up with some other woman... lol.... and forgets all about me. And my kids will inherit enough money so that they can go to college, or put down a decent down payment on a house. (They would each receive $22,000, which represents 10% of my policy.)

My husband's take, "I hate insurance, I don't want a dime going to insurance companies... I'm NOT living in fear." HIS share, which would come out of my paycheck, by the way... and as I said, is HALF of what I'm insuring myself for... is a THIRD of of what I would spend on my own. I take this quite personally. I think "He doesn't give a CRAP about what I'd have to go through if he died tomorrow." He ACTUALLY said to me, "You'd be fine." Again, he has no alternate plan.... just knows I'm a strong woman. Bull! I am SO pissed!!!!! (For my British friends, that means extremely angry... not drunk.)

My friends say this is a Man/Woman thing... and that men do not deal with the reality of their own mortality the way women do. And that women are more able to deal with the ramifications of their own mortality better than men can. I want, on my deathbed to think "at least they won't suffer financially" I swear to GOD, the only reason I wake up and do ANYTHING in my life is because of the responsibility I feel to my family... Otherwise, I'm too f***ing TIRED! If I could lay in bed all day and watch TV, I would. If I died, I would consider it a BREAK!!!! So, if I do die, I don't want, on my deathbed to think , "What the hell are they going to do without me?" Yes, I know I am a wonderful influence in my children's lives.... but THAT isn't something I can replace. The ONLY thing I can replace, upon my death, is a fraction of my income I would have made upon my "mature" death. (5x my current income now, in case you're wondering... and I know you were... lol)

Ok... so my questions is... what do you think of life insurance? And what do you think of someone who wouldn't buy life insurance for his family, even if it was extremely inexpensive. And... what do you think someone feels for his wife if he chose not to insure his life, even though he could afford it. And... what do you think of someone who chooses to buy the maximum life insurance, even though the odds of dying are slim? And, what do you think of life insurance companies? And what do you think about the man/woman psyche that may determine their thoughts/feelings about life insurance.

I'm VERY, VERY interested in your opinions. It will, or MAY help me understand my husband's stance.

By the way.... he relented... signed the papers.... I have to fill in all the blanks, but he gave in and let me insure him. Of course, he had to make sure I KNEW that he was COMPLETELY against this and that I was wasting our (his) money on a load of CRAP that the insurance companies were disseminating. Personally, I think he really wanted the insurance, but didn't want to admit that it actually COULD be a reality that he could die prematurely, like my brother-in-law (who has terminal cancer) is... leaving my wonderful and beautifully natured sister in SUCH a financial as well as emotional lurch.....but maybe DEEP, DEEP down, he wanted to take care of me. Either that or he was sick of fighting....lol. (By the way, I've ALWAYS carried life insurance for BOTH of us, throughout the years, ever since I started working full time when the kids got into school..... we never had it before, and he's never purchased it on his own.)

Tell me your thoughts, please?

Anyone else deal with this horrendous subject?

Here is my short opinion, mind you i am a man and am most likely wrong. As always.

I think it all comes down to the man wanting to buy/provide the insurance for the woman not the other way around.

You are telling him that you do not think that he could handle things after you are gone. I think this is how he sees it. Simple as that.

I think you should just be happy that he agreed to sign the papers and not try to figure out us men. We are a weird bunch.


I haven't even though about life insurance yet but I will be getting married soon and will have to face this issue. I have no problems with getting life insurance. I think life insurance is a good thing to have as long as you are not living paycheck to paycheck and have the money to spare.

Hooks

I don't want to comment on individual cases but as soon as our first child arrived I thought that I ought to put in place provision for the family in case anything happened to me, even if it meant I had no spare cash.

Brian

Tess, I would at a minimum set it up where you can make it on one income if something happened to him. You should be able to get a policy associated with the mortgage that would pay the house off that is can be substantially cheaper than other forms of insurance. If he does not want to help with that then I don't know what to tell you...

There is some good reading on term, whole life, etc HERE (http://clarkhoward.com/)

In certain circumstances, I would agree that insurance is rediculous. Flood Insurance for a home situated on a hill, outside of flood range (unless you're Noah) for instance...but I don't know anyone for whom death is not inevitable. A few months ago, my boss, a man of 40 years, wife, three young boys, and just passed his yearly physical with flying colors, died while skiing with his family. No warning, no signs, just collapsed. Death can come suddenly...and unannounced.

My wife and I just bought a home that I could afford on my own, but she would have to sell if something were to happen to me. We're in the process of getting life insurance on the mortgage in addition to the standard life insurance policies. She struggled with me to reach this point in our lives and I don't think she should have to suffer if I'm no longer there. Given the relatively insignificant costs I consider the policies in much the same way that I consider condoms...it is much more effective to have and not need than to need and not have.;)

Hmmm Another male opinion

I always had enough insurance to clear any mortgage and provide some extra cash.
Now that the
kids are independant
the house is paid for
we have some reasonable savings
I have pension benefits with widows benefit as well
I am approaching retirement

I am letting all life insurances mature and not being renewed

Do not intend to pay life insurance when retired.

Wife did actually query this but when I explained the sort of funds that would be potentially available she did agree that I will only make a small dent in the coffers

So really it does totally depend on individual circumstances but I do think that provision should be made to clear property mortgage type things

L

I am letting all life insurances mature and not being renewed


L


Will they become "fully paid up"?

Okay, I'm a guy and if I was asked to get life insurance by the woman I loved, I would raise only a minor and calm five-minute fuss--to see if she was serious--and if she did not change her mind I would say yes. However, this would only be for her peace of mind.

Inside, I would be screaming, "$#@% NO!" at the first mention of life insurance for these reasons:
1) The thought of my death is deeply upsetting and I don't want to admit it could ever happen--buying life insurance is like admitting defeat to death

2) That is money out of my pocket going to people I hate

3) Money wouldn't make me feel all THAT better if someone I loved died

4) And way, deep down...I would suspect a plot to murder me for money.

Of course I would never admit this last one as even remotely possible even to myself (besides, if I made her that miserable then maybe I would deserve it)...but it would still stick somewhere in my subconscious and I would never feel quite safe again when I remembered that I had life insurance.

My brother in law died of cancer a few years ago, he had no life insurance, my sister lumbers from one financial crisis to another.
I think anyone with a family who isn't covered is either selfish or stupid

Personally, I think that insurance is - generally - a scam. I do have life insurance, but it is a relatively small amount (basically I just don't want anyone to be burdend with funeral costs) and it is part of annuity that builds value. If it wasn't combined with an annuity I wouldn't have done it.

On the other hand, I have no dependants. If I did, I would be making damn sure they'd be provided for if I died. If I were dead-set against insurance, then I would: get an inexpensive term policy, maybe for ten years. And while that was in effect, I would be making regular payments into savings to build up enough of a nest egg so that insurance would become uneccessary by the time the term is up.

I don't know you or your husband or the situation well enough to possibly hazard a guess as to his motivations or thought process. I would say, though, that whatever the reason the only responsible conclusion is to provide for your children even if that means putting money into a system you despise.

College...

College...
Studen t

Thankfully my husband doesn't feel the same way about insurance as yours does, Tess. Neither one of us felt the need to raise a fuss about it, and both of us want the others in our family to be cared for if something happens to either of us. I mean, death comes to everyone whether you're "ready" for it or not. Better to be prepared. :(

Will they become "fully paid up"?

No

They are all assorted with some sort of investment.

With Profits not doing so well now but only a little while to go on those

Others are an investment basically with some life insurance as a benefit

L

[QUOTE=Kraj]Personally, I think that insurance is - generally - a scam. /QUOTE]
Come now Greg Insurance is necessary for our modern life, it not only enables commerce to function but imagine the risks of driving, owning a home or any worthwhile goods without insurance.

Insurance was devised to spread bad luck and enabled the entrepeneurs of the 19th century to trade.

Brian

Come now Greg Insurance is necessary for our modern life, it not only enables commerce to function but imagine the risks of driving, owning a home or any worthwhile goods without insurance. Insurance was devised to spread bad luck and enabled the entrepeneurs of the 19th century to trade.
I'm not suggesting insurance is evil or completely valueless or that millions of people haven't uttered the phrase, "Thank God I'm insured", and I do understand its benefits. I do, however, think it does society more harm than good when you approach it from a philosophical level. I can elaborate if you wish, but I'm not particularly articulate this morning. :o

I can, however, give an example of a situation that shapes my opinion on insurance: My brother got married in 2001. His wife had suffered from chronic migrane headaches since she was young. No big deal, she was used to it. My brother has a decent job managing a Walgreen's and she worked for the same company. About a year later, she developed other symptoms and - to make a very, very long story short - she has two extremely rare conditions simultaneously: chiari malformation and pseudotumor. In brief, the malformation means her brain doesn't fit into her skull correctly and the pseudotumor means she has a build-up of fluid pressure on her brain and eyes.

What this translates into is regular trips to the hospital, surgeries, loads of medications, and general debilitation. When you're talking about spreading around bad luck, this is a couple whose bad luck needed to be spread around. These are the type of people whom insurance was supposed to take care of. Regardless, they had to declare bankruptcy recently because they were not able to pay the medical bills insurance wouldn't cover. So how, exactly, does insurance help society function in a case like that?

So how, exactly, does insurance help society function in a case like that?

That's why we have a National Insurance scheme

I might as well...

The insurance companies offer a wide range of plans, which they in turn try to sell to the employers (notice that does not say individuals). The employer makes a determination on what co-pays, deductibles, lifetime maximums, and a plethora of other options, that it will make available to it's employees based upon the final, bottom line cost to the employer, not the employee...then the employee gets to choose from the "preselected plans". Then you get into the concept of self insurance, where the Insurance company acts as administrator only, the employer pays all bills, and the employee thinks they have "insurance". While the insurance company does administer claims and issue cards, benefits are all paid OOP by the employer, so max and co-pay benefits tend to decrease...along with many hidden "gotchas".

Then we have the tendency of people to use insurance, when they have it, even if they don't really need it. They go to the ER because they have a sniffle and they have a $20 co-pay...but they would never dream of paying the $600 ER fee if it came out of their own pockets. That type of stuff does wonders for the estimated cost of health care.

IMHO, so take it for what it's worth, it is the tendency of the employer to save a buck at the expense of it's employees and the employees only looking for what they can get "right now" not long term, that creates the problems. Shop, look, compare, do the math. Insurance companies are not evil, but, like many things in life, they will allow you to make dumb decisions...they didn't take us to raise, they are businesses that try to make money.

I realise I am a bit slow getting back to you Kraj but I keep getting fed up with the site.:mad:

Whilst I sympathise with the couple mentioned Insurance is a business that has to assess the risks and charge accordingly, which is why my wife travels without cover for any problems relating to her cancer and I my eyes, but in a civilised society the society helps take care of the seriously ill, see Rich’s response, he is not always wrong.

Brian

We may want to separate the thread into views on Life Insuracne versus Health Insurance. I work in health insurance, and in my region, very rarely are services not covered for seriously ill people. The only instance in which this becomes a problem, would be in the case of custodial care, which would be where a person doesn't need medical services, just housekeeping and personal care services. As in the case of my dad, with ALS - he doesn't need home care for medications or anything, just to get him in and out of bed and showered and dressed, and in most cases, that is not covered by health insurance. But when I hear where people have been admitted to the hospital, or have gone to the ER, purchased medications, and the services are not covered by insurance, it makes me ill. I wish I could invite everyone to my town so they could have coverage.

Life insurance - I'm not married, so it is only insuring my baby, and since she is a minor, she would be cared for by other family members in the event of my demise, so I don't feel like I have to provide for her entire life if I die. I am insured for enough so that I could be buried properly, and that is about it. My will takes care of the rest of it.

And I agree with Tasslehoff, in that I hate even signing these papers, because the thought of my death gives me the creeps. I have dragged my feet for some time on my will - it isn't even finished yet - because I have this crazy superstition that once it is finalized, I will kick off. Stranger things have happened.

Lisa

see Rich’s response, he is not always wrong.

Brian
I know you meant to say rarely instead of "not always" :cool:

Whilst I sympathise with the couple mentioned Insurance is a business that has to assess the risks and charge accordingly, which is why my wife travels without cover for any problems relating to her cancer and I my eyes, but in a civilised society the society helps take care of the seriously ill, see Rich’s response, he is not always wrong.
I'm not following you here. I can't really incorporate Rich's response into my thinking because I don't know if his reference to "National Insurance" is the government-provided health care or if it's something different. I just don't know; and even if I did I wouldn't know the particulars of that system. I can only comment on insurance as I know it, which is the insurance system in the USA. And since the USA's system is the only one that applies to Tess' situation, I'm not sure how discussing insurance in the UK applies.

Nevertheless, my point about my brother and sister-in-law is not about sympathizing with a crummy situation, it's about pointing out areas where the insurance system intentionally does not function the way you are lead to believe it is supposed to. I will agree that when a generally healthy person is stricken ill with a temporary condition (they have a heart attack, their appendix burst, whatever), insurance tends to function very well. But in my humble and limited experience, people who are seriously, chronically ill are too big of a drain on the system and basically left to fend for themselves. Part of my job is dealing with requests for corporate donations. It's not uncommon for me to come across a request for a charitable trust which benefits a single family who cannot afford the medical bills of a chronically ill child.

I agree that it is circumstancial, but basically as stated before there should at least be some sort of funds lined up to cover the cost of funeral expenses and other miscellaneous items. My wife's grandmother passed away last month and for as long as I've known her she has been extremely poor and lived off social security. My mother-in-law destroyed my wife's grandmother's credit by running up tons of debt ....not to mention my wife's before we met. :mad: Consequently, my wife's grandmother had barely anything to save toward her own funeral. She had some life insurance that we could use, but found out as she passed that it was not the correct insurance.....she had accidental death and dismemberment. So here the family is:
-grandmother had no money or assets
-mother-in-law is broke and has no job
-uncle has dis-owned family
-aunt and cousins no money to contribute
-brother-in-law who makes over 6 figures won't contribute a penny and has all but written off his own family off
-my wife and I were the only ones in a position to pay for it. F--king $8,000 bill when we are already about $37,000 in debt with credit cards and vehicle loans. Just typing this is getting me pissed all over again. I can't stand that my mother-in-law is a worthless, lazy, sack of sh-t that is the ABSOLUTE most irresponsible human on the planet, my wife's silly grandmother had the wrong insurance and her f--king snob ass brother won't lift a finger to help out. Oh, he can go out and spend X amount of money for brand new granite countertops in his kitchen and take his family to Disneyworld, but he can't help us. Don't worry about us. It's not like my wife planned on losing her job a while back. It's not like she's not trying to go back to school, get a good career going to help us climb out of debt. It's not like we don't want to fix the house up and save up to do things. We'll just put our life on hold so everyone else can go about theirs. :rolleyes: :mad: :mad:

Oh geez...sorry to vent like that, but it pisses me off. Anyway, the moral to my story is whatever you choose to do just don't screw your family when you pass and stick them with bills that they shoud'nt have to deal with.

Chill baby, chill - :) :) :)

NJudson,

That sucks! Especially the part about the B-I-L who could actually afford to at least go HALF in with you.

I wonder, what if you refused to assume the burden as well? What would have happened to Grandmother?

All,

Thanks so much for all your thoughts and opinions. I had to laugh about the "sticking in the back of my mind" Tasslehoff's fear of "murder plot for money." My policy is worth twice as much as my husband's if I died first, and he knows it. Now... lol... if I insured myself for a pittance and took out $1 millon dollar life insurance on him, I could see the point.

And hooks,
Unfortunately you're wrong again... He would never buy insurance on his own so it's not the feeling that "She's taking care of the family, and that's MY job". He absolutely despises insurance. But you ARE right that I should just be happy he signed the papers.

Last night, he MADE me talk to him about it again. I thought, "Hell, we're never going to agree.... why drag all this up and continue the argument?" But, since that night he said "You'd be fine if I died. You're strong, you'll make it." I honestly lost some respect for him. I think a strong man is not one who beats his chest and can get loud and physically aggressive.... A strong man, in my opinion, is someone who you can lay your head on his chest and know that he'll do whatever he has to do to take care of you and keep you safe. That's emotionally, physically, and financially. I interpreted his act of denying me financial protection as either A) not caring about me, or B) severe shortsightedness and stupidity. So, I started to withdraw from him this week. He felt it. And he made me talk about it even though I didn't want to.

Once I explained to him how I felt, (it takes several times, you know... saying the same thing over and over again in different ways to get through.... so it was a pretty long discussion) he finally understood. We still disagree on the security insurance provides and whether or not it is a wise investment of funds, but now at least he thinks that it's a small price to pay for MY sense of security and to let me know he really does care about me.

Oh geez...sorry to vent like that, but it pisses me off.
No problem, bro. Sounds like you needed to vent. :)

Once I explained to him how I felt he finally understood. We still disagree on the security insurance provides and whether or not it is a wise investment of funds, but now at least he thinks that it's a small price to pay for MY sense of security and to let me know he really does care about me.
Tess, that's wonderful to hear. It sounds like you've got yourself a good man and a good relationship.

I'm especially ahppy to hear it because my heckles were seriously raised when you wrote he had said, "You'd be fine if I died. You're strong, you'll make it." It's the same rationale my grandfather gave my grandmother when he left her to raise their three school-age daughters on her own while he ran off with his secretary: "You're strong, Lucille. You'll make it. She needs me." What a load of crap.

I'm especially ahppy to hear it because my heckles were seriously raised when you wrote he had said, "You'd be fine if I died. You're strong, you'll make it." It's the same rationale my grandfather gave my grandmother when he left her to raise their three school-age daughters on her own while he ran off with his secretary: "You're strong, Lucille. You'll make it. She needs me." What a load of crap.

lol... you think YOUR heckles were raised!!!!
We should compare heckles sometime, Greg my dear!;)
:eek:

We should compare heckles sometime, Greg my dear!

You're a married woman! :eek: :D

You're a married woman! :eek: :D
LOL... I'm sure my being married isn't the part that Greg would object to.... ;)

3) Money wouldn't make me feel all THAT better if someone I loved died


The point is not that money is supposed to make you "feel better" if someone you love dies. The point is that in most cases, especially for women, losing an employed spouse can financially devastate a person. Imagine the horrible grief of losing your partner, the love of your life. Now imagine how much worse that would be if you were unable to grieve properly because you were too busy worrying about losing your house and providing for your children.

$110K insurance for the primary breadwinner of a family with dependent children is nothing. There should be enough insurance money to pay off all debts, including the mortgage, and get the kids through college.

LOL... I'm sure my being married isn't the part that Greg would object to.... ;)
Life is often full of suprises, as they say ;) :D

Life is often full of suprises, as they say ;) :D
How right you are... ;)

The point is not that money is supposed to make you "feel better" if someone you love dies. The point is that in most cases, especially for women, losing an employed spouse can financially devastate a person. Imagine the horrible grief of losing your partner, the love of your life. Now imagine how much worse that would be if you were unable to grieve properly because you were too busy worrying about losing your house and providing for your children.

$110K insurance for the primary breadwinner of a family with dependent children is nothing. There should be enough insurance money to pay off all debts, including the mortgage, and get the kids through college.

Exactly my thoughts, Idjit. $110k would simply be JUST enough to pay off the house & most of the other debt, and then free up that money so I could actually make it on my own income. Even then, I'd have to give up some of life's luxuries. If I didn't have it, sigh... I would probably have to refinance the house for another 30 years to get the mortgage payment down to where I could handle it alone.

I think that when a spouse dies, the survivor naturally goes through a period of mourning where they actually get angry at the deceased loved one for leaving them alone. I'm sure I would as well, but I think that stage would last a lot longer if he not only left me alone without his emotional support and love, but left me to struggle financially as well.

I'm pleased that things are working out ok for you Tess . Your initial post sure produced some emotional responses, there are some emotionally scarred people out there, even Greg seemed to lose his usual cool rational approach and appeared to tell me to butt out.

Once again I hope things go well

Brian

I'm pleased that things are working out ok for you Tess . Your initial post sure produced some emotional responses, there are some emotionally scarred people out there, even Greg seemed to lose his usual cool rational approach and appeared to tell me to butt out.

Once again I hope things go well

Brian

It IS a discussion that lends itself to emotional debate. And, that's why I think it was such a difficult thing for my husband and me to confront. And, I don't think Gregg was telling you to "butt out", Brian.... he was merely saying that he (like I) have no concept of your country's insurance schema and therefore could not take it into consideration and make any educated judgement on how that particular program fit into the situation at hand.

Things on the homefront have improved, however, I'm a realistic person and I foresee that this is not the last "discussion" my husband and I have about uncomfortable issues such as this.

But now that that's settled, please share some information on how your country approaches the death of its cherished citizens. Do they make sure they get proper memorial and burial regardless of income limits of the survivors? Do they extend aid to the widows and widowers in their time of need for a period of time? How exactly does your program work?

Tess, Greg and I were not discussing Death issues but insurance, illness and its impact on wealth. As Rich pointed out our National insurance funds, inpart, our national health service which provides medical care free at the point of delivery. Without it my wife's treatment would have probably bankrupted us by now, but Insurance companies do not promise to deliver this kind of service and I don't think we can expect them to take on risks that would bankrupt themselves.

Since this discussion upsets Greg I don't intend to take it further.

Brian

Fair enough.
I am not one to encourage people to talk about things that make them uncomfortable or continue discussions where there will simply never be any sort of agreement. (Although, I'm sure this is not the case between you and Greg....)

But, Brian, could you please share with me, as I am genuinely interested in this, what Great Britain's policy is toward widows and widowers as far as "social security", and what happens to the "poor" deceased. Do they get proper burial and memorial regardless of their relatives ability to pay?

And, whatever the answer is... I sincerely don't know it ahead of time, which is why I am asking... but don't take the question as a wry attack on your country.... our country handles it in a very capitalistic manner. Nothing is subsidized, I believe. I think we cremate and dispose of "John and Jane Does" as well as "unclaimed" persons, but I have no idea what happens to people who die that have no kin to pay for their end of life issues. This is why I posed the question to NJudson "What would have become of Grandmother if no one had assumed the burden of her expenses?"

I greatly appreciate the response, and the knowledge that comes with it.

Well Tess, I don't know the answer to your exact question, i.e. what happens if nobody assumes responsibilty.

For people who do and fulfill certain conditions such as

If you or your partner getting:

Income Support?
Income-based Jobseeker's Allowance?
Pension Credit?
Housing Benefit?
Council Tax Benefit?
Child Tax Credit which includes an amount higher than the family element?
Working Tax Credit where a disability or severe disability element is included in the award?

then help is available, but very much doubt that is the situation being discussed. If I get time I will attempt a bit of research, after all you have got me curious now.

Brian

$110K insurance for the primary breadwinner of a family with dependent children is nothing. There should be enough insurance money to pay off all debts, including the mortgage, and get the kids through college.
You can have as much insurance money you like paid to dependants - provided you can afford the premiums.

My wife stands to get the mortgage paid and a huge lump sum if I die (sadly not if commit suicide:rolleyes: ) - as I do if she dies.

I've always said 'I hope I die before I get old'. I certainly don't plan to be around >70 years old. I will have no family by then, no kids and highly likely no wife. So at 68 or 69 I sell up and blow the lot:D

Col

... grieve properly...

Yeah, let's put that high on the priority list...

"Honey I think we need to take out another 100k on you so I will be able to grieve properly if you die..." :rolleyes:

Ken I think that you totally missed Idjit's point.

Brian

Ken I think that you totally missed Idjit's point.

Brian

No... I got it; With all the emotional stress that goes along with losing your spouse, you shouldn't have to be worrying about money...

'grieve properly' just sounds like a odd way to put it...

Sorry... :)

So at 68 or 69 I sell up and blow the lot:D

Col

Not leaving any to the Sally Army then ? :confused: :eek: :D

Not leaving any to the Sally Army then ? :confused: :eek: :D
Nope:D Not leaving anything to a bunch of religious freaks.

The only beneficiaries from the last to die out of the 2 of us will be animal charities. Thats it - the rest will be blown.:D

Col

You know, this has been a very interesting topic for me to read. Ever since I was very young, and my parents attempted to divorce, I resolved to make sure that I could always take care of myself in the event that my significant other was not around. As it turns out, I have never been married, and the boyfriend I have been with for millions of years has never been in a position to even pay half of the mortgage or rent, so I have always been the primary breadwinner, and the primary debtor as well. And now that I have a baby, I have made the financial adjustments to be able to pay for everything, including day care (although, right now, I wouldn't be able to afford that without the BF, so I am working on getting a better job). I imagine if I had developed a relationship with a financially independent person, I would better be able to relate to the worries of not being able to afford the mortgage, because generally, in most marriages, it is a combination of the income that determines how much house you buy, by consent of both parties. I bought my own house, and I pay for everything. It has always been that way. I wonder what I would do if I ever met someone who was interested in being a partner, in all ways.

It really makes me think about the incredibly dysfunctional relationship I have, and how un-50/50 it really is.

Lisa

Lisa , that was a worrying post. Both my daughters easily out earn their respective Husband/partner but what they do get is loads of love and support.
My wife worked for only a brief time after our wedding as our first daughter was a honeymoon baby, too much sangria :D , and i have been the only bread winner to speak of, but as far as I'm concerned we are equal partners in this relationship. I wonder if being married makes a difference

Brian

No... I got it; With all the emotional stress that goes along with losing your spouse, you shouldn't have to be worrying about money...

'grieve properly' just sounds like a odd way to put it...

Sorry... :)

Yup, "properly" was an odd word to use in the context...moral of the story, don't drink and post. :D

I'm glad you know what I meant. Maybe the way I should have phrased it is, when going through such a terrible loss it really is comforting to know that there is at least one thing you don't need to worry about. I compare my mom's situation when my dad died, to what a couple of her sisters went through. And believe me, it makes a big difference. Losing a loved one shouldn't be the equivalent of winning the lotto, but don't under-rate security.

Tess, I am also glad that things worked out in this case. :)

Of course, I had forgotten that in the U.S. there are SS survivor benefits for minor children who lose a parent, but I don't know what those benefits are. So even folks with no insurance have some help if they lose a spouse while still raising children.

Hi Tess,
I managed to find this on a funeral directors general web site, this makes me suspect that there is no simple answer covering every case

Brian

Help with the funeral arrangements

Normally a member of the family or a close friend arranges the funeral. When there is no surviving family or friends available, or they are not able to arrange the funeral, the public authorities will help with arrangements.
NHS Trusts become responsible for the funeral arrangements of a person who dies in hospital when no relatives can be traced, or relatives are not able to afford the cost themselves and do not qualify for Social Fund Funeral Payments.
When someone dies in hospital, a local authority home or in temporary accommodation, the health board, NHS trust or the social work department of the local authority may arrange the funeral. Whichever authority arranges the funeral may claim on the deceased person's estate to offset the costs involved. Ask at the hospital or the home.
If no other arrangements can be made, the local authority has a duty to bury or cremate a dead person. It may also claim on the estate to offset the costs. Ask at your local council offices. Funerals arranged by public authorities are conducted with dignity and respect and bear no resemblance to the 'paupers' burials' of the past. Some local authorities prefer to carry out cremations rather than burials, but the wishes of the deceased or his/her relatives, if known, are normally respected.
The NHS trust or health board may offer to arrange and meet the cost of a burial or cremation of a stillborn baby, whether born in hospital or at home. You should discuss the arrangement with the hospital staff or midwife. If you accept the offer, the baby will be cremated or buried after a simple ceremony. The parents can, if they wish, arrange the funeral themselves.

Lisa , that was a worrying post. Both my daughters easily out earn their respective Husband/partner but what they do get is loads of love and support.
Brian


You're right, Brian, that is pretty worrying - as I was writing it, I was realizing how screwed up my situation is. But I am working on resolving that issue, for the better for me.

Lisa

... even Greg seemed to lose his usual cool rational approach and appeared to tell me to butt out.

Brian
Brian, I truly apologize for giving you this impression. It was not my intention at all.

What I was trying to say is that I made a judgement about insurance which was based on my experience with the insurance systems in the U.S, specifically, because I have no experience with the systems of any other country on which to base a judgement (I realize my original statement was much more generalized and left tons of room for interpretation. That was purely my error.). You directly responded to my statement by suggesting that my judgement was not accurate, but supported your assertion with information that applies only to insurance in the UK, not the U.S. My attempts to clarify my statement were not in an effort to tell you to butt out but to explain that even if everything you say is true it simply doesn't apply to my situation.

To put it another way, I'm more than happy to hear your opinions and to learn about how insurance functions in the UK. But such information would only serve to show an example of a healthy insurance system, not rebut my assertion about the U.S.'s system.

I hope that clears the air.

Brian, I truly apologize for giving you this impression. It was not my intention at all.

......................

I hope that clears the air.

That's the trouble with written communication, no body language, no voice inflection; no interaction, thus we get our wires crossed.

Our Insurance business probably does not differ from yours, I was just trying to say that the modern world would not function without it, warts and all, but one cannot expect a business to take on what it considers to be an unacceptable risk, but I would rather not continue this , and I didn't feel that you owed me an apology I said what I did to illustrate a point, probably badly, so lets shake on it (virtually) and move on.

Brian

.
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., thus we get our wires crossed.
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http://www.stockmarket.julyblogs.co.uk/images/wallst/2005-oct2005-program.jpg

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http://www.stockmarket.julyblogs.co.uk/images/wallst/2005-oct2005-program.jpg

You've cut out the bit with the pic of Bush and Chenny sat listening with their headphones on :rolleyes: :p

so lets shake on it (virtually) and move on.
Consider it shook. :D

Consider it shook. :D

http://covers.cdbaby.com/s/h/shook.jpg

:eek:

http://covers.cdbaby.com/s/h/shook.jpg

:eek:


http://www.mindspring.com/~bjorgenson/Resources/shook.jpeg

http://www.swingworks.com/images/s-hooks-large.jpg

http://www.swingworks.com/images/s-hooks-large.jpg

I thought "what the hell has that got to do with.. Aaahhh! " nice one Greg. Is that called lateral thinking?

Brian

I thought "what the hell has that got to do with.. Aaahhh! " nice one Greg. Is that called lateral thinking?

Brian
For you? Yes. For me? No. It just came up on the Google search and I was like, "Ooh... that's a good one." :p

For you? Yes. For me? No. It just came up on the Google search and I was like, "Ooh... that's a good one." :p


So when two people make up they give each other a s-hook? :D

"Oh no, we're not fuss'n any more, we made up and gave each other a s-hook on it..." :p

So when two people make up they give each other a s-hook? :D



Therby hangs a tale;)

Brian

So when two people make up they give each other a s-hook? :D
Must....resist....dirty....comment....

Must....resist....dirty....comment....

See, you can be conservative when you try... :D

I just wanted to take a moment and thank each and every single person who posted their responses. I so appreciate the many thoughtful and reflective responses to a tough emotional and financial issue, and I apologize for not sooner expressing my deepest gratitude for your sharing them with me.
For as I was experiencing this dilemma as a reality, it was comforting to know that people understood and could empathize with the situation.

P.S. I was proud that I immediately got the "S" hook reference and thought it hilarious.
:D