The user of the word is the victim?:o

It seems they have come to be. How times have changed.

An American who's heard of Albania? a rare find for sure. . . . .

Col

They may have heard of it, but I bet they couldn't point it out on a map;)

How times have changed.

Except in your country oddly enough:rolleyes:

insinuation I can ignore, its general and doesn't apply to me.:),

I agree with all that you have said. On this point I don't think that I have had a single difference of opinion with the Col&Rich committee without my capacity for rational thought being brought into question because of the country that I was born in. It's not racism because as you say my country is a multi-racial society. It is a form of disrespect that many others have decided to do without and that I have decided not to afford to them. They simply do not warrant it.

They have done much harm on these forums by not practising what SumGuy did in the very first handful of his posts. Acknowledging and adapting to the opinions of others for the common good. They are not interested in this, they are simply interested in self-gratification from which no-one else gains anything. They have morphed from two individuals to a monologue of puerile jokes and grandiose posturing.

The day that I can have a discussion with them without being spoken to like a three year old, is the day I'll change my opinion on the matter.

Except in your country oddly enough:rolleyes:

QED.............

I agree with all that you have said. On this point I don't think that I have had a single difference of opinion with the Col&Rich committee without my capacity for rational thought being brought into question because of the country that I was born in. It's not racism because as you say my country is a multi-racial society. It is a form of disrespect that many others have decided to do without and that I have decided not to afford to them. They simply do not warrant it.

They have done much harm on these forums by not practising what SumGuy did in the very first handful of his posts. Acknowledging and adapting to the opinions of others for the common good. They are not interested in this, they are simply interested in self-gratification from which no-one else gains anything. They have morphed from two individuals to a monologue of puerile jokes and grandiose posturing.

The day that I can have a discussion with them without being spoken to like a three year old, is the day I'll change my opinion on the matter.

When you live in a society that treats everyone as equal then you'll have some merit in lecturing others on racism

When you live in a society that treats everyone as equal then you'll have some merit in lecturing others on racism

And where is this utopia.

Brian

And where is this utopia.

Brian

I didn't say it existed anywhere, but governments here have made more of an effort of creating it, that's at least until Bliar tried to go down the American route of prefixing the word British with ethnenticity:rolleyes:

There was a news item today that it is more difficult for working class kids to move up in society today than in was in the 1950s , and that as a result the class divisions are greater, I blame the Labour move to Comprehensive schools aided and abetted by the wishy washy Liberals.

Brian

Well I'm told I'm pompous for mentioning my customers on this forum but one today with a stand in teacher agreed with both of us that the worse thing done to education in this country was the move to comprehensive education, a move oddly enough that even the Americans rejected:eek:
Take the instance of a whole generation that had to take a calculator to school until somebody woke up and realised that they no longer had the ability to think or add up on their own. As a retired 82yr old headmaster told me the other day, education here today is run by a committee hell bent on making statistics look good for the current government than actually educating the kids:rolleyes:

As a retired 82yr old headmaster told me the other day, education here today is run by a committee hell bent on making statistics look good for the current government than actually educating the kids:rolleyes:

I thought that was the job of the Teacher's Unions :D

When you live in a society that treats everyone as equal then you'll have some merit in lecturing others on racism

Utter utter prejudiced drivel...

Utter utter prejudiced drivel...
No it's a statement of fact......

Utter utter prejudiced drivel...

You should know - you get it on your TV news all the time.

Col

You should know - you get it on your TV news all the time.

Apparently you do too, since you claim everything you have learned about us you learned from watching television, but almost nothing you say is accurate. :rolleyes:

this thread is getting onto the old chestnut of racism.. that is one bag of snakes you dont wanna drop ;)

When you live in a society that treats everyone as equal then you'll have some merit in lecturing others on racism

I would be interested in visiting such a place.
Please supply directions.

Kindly spare us you usual responce that its NOT the United States. There are dozens of other places its not as well.

See posts #2007 and 2008

Brian

When you live in a society that treats everyone as equal then you'll have some merit in lecturing others on racism

Contrary to your belief, you don't make the rules on who merits the ability to voice their opinion on these forums. I refer you to my comment on grandiose posturing.

See posts #2007 and 2008

Brian

:D

The horse has definitely already bolted on that one.

See posts #2007 and 2008

Brian

So, we're all agreed that no such place exists.
Therefore no one gets to lecture anyone on prejudice, racism and class hatred.
That's going to make for a pretty tame exchange.

-------------------------
The only thing required for evil to triumph is for men of good will to do nothing - Thomas Jefferson.

That's going to make for a pretty tame exchange.


Indeed :D Such is the price of keeping the victimised, oppressed and thoroughly gagged members of these forums happy I suppose. :rolleyes:

I don't think that there will be a problem too many posters follow the same mantra as a work colleague, I must add that he said it with a smile " Let's not have facts get in the way of a good argument".

Brian

Contrary to your belief, you don't make the rules on who merits the ability to voice their opinion on these forums..

Snap :rolleyes:

I refer you to my comment on grandiose posturing
as I've told you before, and I won't be told by anyone how I should feel, not only that but you'd be better employed educating the racist element within your own society first and that starts right at the top. Now tell me why anyone born in your country with one white and one black parent is immediately labelled African American, can you tell me when the last white man was executed for killing a black man in say Texas?

Snap :rolleyes:

I don't think you're quite getting the hang of this 'reading what other people are actually posting' bit. I've never discounted the merit of your opinion on the grounds of your nationality. You however do whenever you fail to come up with a thread of rational thinking. It's why my nationality is always of such importance to you, you don't have the capacity to counter in an unprejudiced way.


as I've told you before, and I won't be told by anyone how I should feel,

Oh quit the blubbering please. You simply can't tolerate anyone having a rational point of view that conflicts with your own. If somebody does, you use prejudice against them to make them go away. I'll give you this, you're very successful at it. Many have decided to do without your bile.


Now tell me why anyone born in your country with one white and one black parent is immediately labelled African American, can you tell me when the last white man was executed for killing a black man in say Texas?

...and cue the same tired old misdirection tactic. I've never denied racism exists in my own country. Guess what Rich. I'm quite aware that you're trying to tie the bad traits of ones country to the person who is disagreeing with you, in this case me. Go use your strawman on someone else. My arguments against you are self-evident. :rolleyes:

I don't think you're quite getting the hang of this 'reading what other people are actually posting' bit. I've never discounted the merit of your opinion on the grounds of your nationality. You however do whenever you fail to come up with a thread of rational thinking. It's why my nationality is always of such importance to you, you don't have the capacity to counter in an unprejudiced way.


You set the ground rules by telling me I'm pompous when posting a statement of fact:rolleyes:

Apparently you do too, since you claim everything you have learned about us you learned from watching television, but almost nothing you say is accurate. :rolleyes:

Excuse me Cindy, there are bus tours of the blacks in New Orleans at $47 a head. (Doc has confirmed this) The dead spouses of the towers did get $5 million each, the BBC interviewed one such wife and she was overjoyed that her husband was dead as she was going to divorce him anyway.

Plus, if the USA continues to portray itself (in Hollywood) as a bomb blasting 'nuke the bastards' type country - then actually does it - how can that be wrong?

Also, do you not think the prime objective of the Iraq war is oil?

Also, some of the US populace professes to be "christian", but sadly it seems only on sundays. The rest of the week it's business as normal, killing things with guns, shooting up schools, being the biggest porn producer in the world, showing total disregard to cutting pollution, being proud of having a killer dictator as a president . . . . shall I go on?

Even you Cindy have confessed to having a gun, and would not be afraid to murder an intruder - yet you profess christianity as a major factor in your life. Surely murder in cold blood and christianity don't exactly match up.

Col

Murder - the deliberate taking of a human life with malice and forthought. Cindy shooting an intruder hardly qualifies.

The bus tours of New Orleans included a lot of other things besides showing the poverty stricken and flood devastated black areas of the city. Doc also confirmed this. Please fix the skip in that record.

The British film industry portrays most of your countrymen living in small villages where the houses have names, the pub is the social centre and everyone is in full agreement as to what should be done to solve the problem. Is this an accurate reflection of Britain?

The US currently gets the majority of its imported oil from Canada. The price of Iraqi oil for use in the US would be much higher. After all its got to be transported from the Middle East.

Isn't "the rest of the week" reserved for business as usual? As to your tirade about the US, what else would we expect from you. I shall respond to your rhetorical question of "shall I go on"...Is there any way to stop you?
It does bring up an interesting point however. Everyone has a right to their opinion. When do you stop having the right of inflicting it on the rest of us.

You set the ground rules by telling me I'm pompous when posting a statement of fact:rolleyes:

I think your pomposity pre-dates my pointing out of it by quite a few millennia.

I think your pomposity pre-dates my pointing out of it by quite a few millennia.

As does your arrogance

The US currently gets the majority of its imported oil from Canada. The price of Iraqi oil for use in the US would be much higher. After all its got to be transported from the Middle East.


This mistaken ethos has been addressed here before at length, please search the archives for the real reasons for this unjust, unwarranted war!

Also, some of the US populace professes to be "christian", but sadly it seems only on sundays. The rest of the week it's business as normal, killing things with guns, shooting up schools, being the biggest porn producer in the world, showing total disregard to cutting pollution, being proud of having a killer dictator as a president . . . . shall I go on?
Col

I'll choose to not address the other points but this one is sad but true, only in my opinion. I may not agree with the way you worded everything but America does claim to be a Christian nation and there are many Americans who claim to be Christian but their words and their actions don't match up. Unfortunately, there are many more "actions" that could be added to your list.

This mistaken ethos has been addressed here before at length, please search the archives for the real reasons for this unjust, unwarranted war!

Those would be the archives with you and Col going on and on about how the the US invaded Iraq for the oil.
Opinion is not evidence (unless you're qualified experts in the area).

BTW I am not defending the war, just challenging your impressions.

Those would be the archives with you and Col going on and on about how the the US invaded Iraq for the oil.
Opinion is not evidence (unless you're qualified experts in the area).

BTW I am not defending the war, just challenging your impressions.

look for the post containing Euros and Dollars, see what you can learn from others

look for the post containing Euros and Dollars, see what you can learn from others

I took a look, but all I could find are some ravings from 2 lunatics about the US invading Iraq for the oil.
Perhaps you could point me in the right direction (Forum and Topic name).

Why does almost every thread in this forum end up with xenophobic UK vs. US arguments? Always with the same people, always becoming more pedantic as each side refuses to back down.

I know who the antagonists are and their opinions, in my opinion, are worth sweet fanny adam.
;)

I took a look, but all I could find are some ravings from 2 lunatics about the US invading Iraq for the oil.
Perhaps you could point me in the right direction (Forum and Topic name).

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/iraq.html

I know who the antagonists are and their opinions, in my opinion, are worth sweet fanny adam.
;)

Yes they're called Bush and Bliar:rolleyes:

Yes they're called Bush and Bliar:rolleyes:

Oh get a life! I looked at your post history, you were posting from 1942hrs to 2357hrs yesterday and then your first post today is at 0735hrs. I wonder, where do you find the time to research all these facts and carefully formulated opinions you keep spouting.

Why does almost every thread in this forum end up with xenophobic UK vs. US arguments? Always with the same people,

Yes it's tiresome but that's Americans for you. The Americans will always argue because they insist that what they see on their censored TV news is actual fact.

I noticed that SumGuy avoided the USA being the biggest polluter and the biggest porn producer in the world.

Note - many English live in little villages with house names and the pub is the centre of social meetings, your assessment is accurate.

I could respond by asking why aliens from outer space always a) land in the USA b) always in the desert and c) always near a small town which they wipe out with their virus or whatever (until Dustin Hoffman rescues the situation)

Cindy said most of my postings were inaccurate - the bus tours was in fact one of many accurate ones, I was merely pointing out that they exist.

Col

Those would be the archives with you and Col going on and on about how the the US invaded Iraq for the oil.
Opinion is not evidence (unless you're qualified experts in the area).

BTW I am not defending the war, just challenging your impressions.

So what's your impression as to why the USA has made the world a much more unsafe place by invading Iraq? Was oil not an issue then?

Col

Yes it's tiresome but that's Americans for you. The Americans will always argue because they insist that what they see on their censored TV news is actual fact.

I noticed that SumGuy avoided the USA being the biggest polluter and the biggest porn producer in the world.

Note - many English live in little villages with house names and the pub is the centre of social meetings, your assessment is accurate.

I could respond by asking why aliens from outer space always a) land in the USA b) always in the desert and c) always near a small town which they wipe out with their virus or whatever (until Dustin Hoffman rescues the situation)

Cindy said most of my postings were inaccurate - the bus tours was in fact one of many accurate ones, I was merely pointing out that they exist.

Col

Please don't hijack my post to back up your arguements. It's an indication of your predjudice that your read my post to be an attack on all Americans.

That post was ment against both sides of this 'debate'. Allthough I have to admit it's the Americans that are just rising to the bait set by the UK posters. I have to give them their due for trying to reason with you in the face of suce narrow minded ignorance.

It's an indication of your predjudice that your read my post to be an attack on all Americans.

It's not. Just because I read something one way when it could in fact be read different ways is not an indication of predjudice. It's an indication of your non specific writing.

Come on son, get a grip. Please be more specific in future if you wish to avoid any misinterpretation. Mind you, if you wrote it deliberately to be misinterpreted, then thats ok, just don't get ratty when one way is highlighted.

Col

The dead spouses of the towers did get $5 million each, the BBC interviewed one such wife and she was overjoyed that her husband was dead as she was going to divorce him anyway.

Col

Col, where are you getting your numbers on how much each family/spouse was paid? I have been doing some looking and the number I have found is an average of 1.8 million per spouse/family. could you please post your source?

there are some small discrepancies of course considering some are only taking into account one fund and others are using all of them

http://www.seekwellness.com/wellness/reports/2004-01-05.htm

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/defenseandsecurity/a/randon911.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11th_Victim_Compensation_Fund

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2004/April/04_civ_207.htm

http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/115050118.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/04/national/main571663.shtml

It's not. Just because I read something one way when it could in fact be read different ways is not an indication of predjudice. It's an indication of your non specific writing.

Come on son, get a grip. Please be more specific in future if you wish to avoid any misinterpretation. Mind you, if you wrote it deliberately to be misinterpreted, then thats ok, just don't get ratty when one way is highlighted.

Col

Ok then, let's get pedantic...

Lol, it is prejudice. I personally fail to see how the post could be misinterpreted in the way you misread it. In no way, shape, or form do I imply that post was targeted at an American, never mind ALL Americans. Just because I (purposefully) didn't specify who I meant in the post, it doesn't give you licence to twist it as you see fit. The most one could logically deduce from the post is that it was targeted at the "antagonists" participating in this UK vs. US 'debate'. That was how I intended it to be interpreted. Anything else is conjecture, your opinion and your judgement.

Assuming it can be misinterpreted, and you recognise that, then you have PRE-JUDGED the meaning of the post based on your own beliefs without knowing, or bothering to find out, what was meant. That IS prejudice.

By the way, I find "son" quite patronising.

By the way, I find "son" quite patronising.

Ok mate. Noted:)

Col

By the way, I find "son" quite patronising.

Hey JEA,

You must not be from The South. I'm 48 years old and I get called "boy" or "son" multiple times a day.:D

No, I live in the South of England, but am originaly from the North of England.

No, I live in the South of England, but am originaly from the North of England.

I looked at your profile but didn't see anything that told me where you are. I would imagine that being in the South of England would be quite different than being in The South in the USA. We just have a lot of good ole boys here and they don't mean anything by calling you "boy" or "son", it's just the way we talk. I have really good reasoning skills:D, so I can come to the assumption that if I ever get to visit your country I probably better leave some of my Southern talk at home.:)

I have really good reasoning skills:D, so I can come to the assumption that if I ever get to visit your country I probably better leave some of my Southern talk at home.:)

Yeah, you definatly wouldn't want to mention a "fanny pack" :D

If you said "booger" in Cornwall you might get a few funny looks. :D

As does your arrogance

I have no problem with being called arrogant. My arrogance is intentional.

If my arrogance causes you to cease dismissing people's conflicting views on the basis of the country in which they were born [deep breath], then it would have served a purpose.

Come up with a non-prejudiced way of countering my opinion and you will quickly see my arrogance disappear.

Yeah, you definatly wouldn't want to mention a "fanny pack" :D

If you said "booger" in Cornwall you might get a few funny looks. :D

"fanny packs" don't seem to be much of a Southern thing. I'm of the mindset that they are a little on the "Mama's boy" side of things.:eek:

While "booger" can mean a little kid that is a handful to mess with, for the most part it is only used in it's gross meaning.

Then again if you come over here, it would probably be a good idea not to tell someone "your going to smoke a fag!":)

I have to give them their due for trying to reason with you in the face of suce narrow minded ignorance.

If some had their way we would be unable to express a conflicting view simply on the basis of the color of our passports.

With regards to your 'xenophobic' remark, I really can't see much evidence of a UK poster being told his/her view is unwarranted because they were British.

If I'm wrong please point it out. :)

If some had their way we would be unable to express a conflicting view simply on the basis of the color of our passports.

With regards to your 'xenophobic' remark, I really can't see much evidence of a UK poster being told his/her view is unwarranted because they were British.

If I'm wrong please point it out. :)

Ok, let's get pedantic again...

I take it you're implying that I was aiming that "xenophobic remark" at Americans. I wasn't .... etc (see above).

I'm not going to trawl through all the past posts to prove you wrong, and neither are you judging on how you cleverly challenged me to do it.

Can you honestly say there is not one post in all the threads in this forum in which an American has discriminated against someone's race?

To be really anally pedantic, not all UK citizens are British. Get your facts right. blah, blah, blah...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway..

I just love the silky smooth taste of a good fag between my lips....:D

A fanny is a ladies 'front bottom' in england.
And with a thick West country accent, 'booger' could sound like bugger. :eek::D

Excuse me Cindy, there are bus tours of the blacks in New Orleans at $47 a head. (Doc has confirmed this) The dead spouses of the towers did get $5 million each, the BBC interviewed one such wife and she was overjoyed that her husband was dead as she was going to divorce him anyway.

Plus, if the USA continues to portray itself (in Hollywood) as a bomb blasting 'nuke the bastards' type country - then actually does it - how can that be wrong?

Also, do you not think the prime objective of the Iraq war is oil?

Also, some of the US populace professes to be "christian", but sadly it seems only on sundays. The rest of the week it's business as normal, killing things with guns, shooting up schools, being the biggest porn producer in the world, showing total disregard to cutting pollution, being proud of having a killer dictator as a president . . . . shall I go on?

Even you Cindy have confessed to having a gun, and would not be afraid to murder an intruder - yet you profess christianity as a major factor in your life. Surely murder in cold blood and christianity don't exactly match up.

Col

You need to choose your words better, if someone INTRUDES(to thrust oneself in without invitation, permission, or welcome) into your house how can it be murder?(the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought(previously in mind : premeditated, deliberate <with malice aforethought)

Definitions in ITALICS supplied by Merriam-Webster Online (http://www.m-w.com/)

MURDER is premeditated.

If some had their way we would be unable to express a conflicting view simply on the basis of the color of our passports.

With regards to your 'xenophobic' remark, I really can't see much evidence of a UK poster being told his/her view is unwarranted because they were British.

If I'm wrong please point it out.


I haven't a clue whos argueing what - can anyone state their positions in 2 sentences or less.

I haven't a clue whos argueing what - can anyone state their positions in 2 sentences or less.

I'm lying down in a dark room wondering whose arguing what with whom.

Brian

If you said "booger" in Cornwall you might get a few funny looks. :D

I doubt it, they don't speak English anyway......

Oh get a life! I looked at your post history, you were posting from 1942hrs to 2357hrs yesterday and then your first post today is at 0735hrs. I wonder, where do you find the time to research all these facts and carefully formulated opinions you keep spouting.

The day you pay for my internet connection sonny, you can lecture me on how long I spend here:rolleyes:

I have no problem with being called arrogant. My arrogance is intentional.

If my arrogance causes you to cease dismissing people's conflicting views on the basis of the country in which they were born [deep breath], then it would have served a purpose.


Well that's odd, I could have sworn Alc was born in this country:rolleyes:

You need to choose your words better, if someone INTRUDES(to thrust oneself in without invitation, permission, or welcome) into your house how can it be murder?(the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought(previously in mind : premeditated, deliberate <with malice aforethought)

Definitions in ITALICS supplied by Merriam-Webster Online (http://www.m-w.com/)

MURDER is premeditated.

I am talking of pointing a gun at someone who has broken into your house and pulling the trigger and killing them. I don't give a monkey's toss what it's called. To me it's taking a human life.

How Americans can do this is quite frankly beyond me. It indicates what little value Americans put on human life. That's why the US troops like to shoot anything that moves I guess, no matter if they are friend or foe.

Col

I just love the silky smooth taste of a good fag between my lips....:D

Like I said, my advise to you, if you ever came state side, is to not put words together that are like the sentence above, especially in Texas. You might hear "get a rope" shortly afterwards.:D

A fanny is a ladies 'front bottom' in england.:eek::D

Are you serious? I would have never put that together if you would have given me all the time in the world to do so. It is crazy that the same language is being spoken but you can get lost on the meaning of words. When I was in Junior High, my best friends Mom was from England. She came home one night and asked Tamblyn and I to get the groceries "out of the boot." I didn't have a clue what she could be talking about. Later, I learned things like "bonnet" on a car. "Take a holiday", instead of a vacation. On this forum I have heard you guys (ya'll where I'm from) use words that are English but in ways that I have no idea the meaning.

I am talking of pointing a gun at someone who has broken into your house and pulling the trigger and killing them. I don't give a monkey's toss what it's called. To me it's taking a human life.Col

I don't disagree that life is sacred, but what is the proper response to someone being in your home, stealing your possessions, or intends to harm or rape your wife and children? or their intentions is to kill you?


How Americans can do this is quite frankly beyond me. It indicates what little value Americans put on human life. That's why the US troops like to shoot anything that moves I guess, no matter if they are friend or foe.
Col

Is it just us (the USA) that values life so little? or is it as a human race we value life so little? War, civil wars, capital punishment, abortion, euthanasia, etc all snuff out life. While Americas are very guilty of having "little value on human life", we are not the only ones with bloody hands.

If my arrogance causes you to cease dismissing people's conflicting views on the basis of the country in which they were born [deep breath], then it would have served a purpose.



What a shame your masters haven't followed the same path eh:rolleyes:

I am talking of pointing a gun at someone who has broken into your house and pulling the trigger and killing them. I don't give a monkey's toss what it's called. To me it's taking a human life.

You see if would could control the guns to only be in the hands of the homeowners in these situations - then all is good. Bang bang their dead - and serves them right too.:mad:

I don't disagree that life is sacred, but what is the proper response to someone being in your home, stealing your possessions, or intends to harm or rape your wife and children? or their intentions is to kill you?

How do you know they are going to rape or kill? they may just be opportunist teenagers looking for something to sell and get money. Would you really shoot them dead?

What if the intruder was a 16 year old girl? would you shoot her too?

Could you look into the eyes of another human and pull the trigger in cold blood?

Col

You need to choose your words better, if someone INTRUDES(to thrust oneself in without invitation, permission, or welcome) into your house how can it be murder?(the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought(previously in mind : premeditated, deliberate <with malice aforethought)

The definition didn't mention the length of time between making the decision and killing the person. If I've been woken by someone breaking in, quickly grabbed a weapon from the bedside table and dispatched them, fair enough, little evidence of premeditation. If, however, I hear a noise, get up, go fetch my previously-bought gun from the locked cabinet where I - as a responsible person - store it, load it, then go to find the burglar, isn't that at least some premeditation?

Not arguing against doing it, just saying I can see how it could be classed as murder.

How do you know they are going to rape or kill? they may just be opportunist teenagers looking for something to sell and get money. Would you really shoot them dead?

Batter, more likely. I don't like guns, but speaking as someone whose family has been burgled on many occasions and knowing the upset it caused my mother, if I'd caught any of them I wouldn't have thought twice. At one point, I used to sleep with trainers on and a length of 2x2 by the bed, just in case I heard someone coming in. The whole 'you've got to see their side' thing carries no weight with me. As far as I'm concerned, you make the decision to enter someone else's home and take something that doesn't belong to you? You have no rights.

What if the intruder was a 16 year old girl? would you shoot her too?

Not shoot, no (see above). Have to support sexual equality, don't you?;)

How do you know they are going to rape or kill? they may just be opportunist teenagers looking for something to sell and get money. Would you really shoot them dead?

I don't! Anymore than I know that they are an opportunist teenager looking for something to sell and get money. That's why I asked what the response should be.

What if the intruder was a 16 year old girl? would you shoot her too?

Could you look into the eyes of another human and pull the trigger in cold blood?

Col

I can't shoot or kill an animal, so I would have to say that shooting a 16 year old girl is not going to happen either, not to mention I'd have to have a gun first. On the other hand, if I owned a gun and a man was in my home and I was scared enough over the situation, (kind of it's him or me, say he has a gun and I know it) then I would say, in the heat of the moment with no time to think, I possibly could do it. Can't say for sure cause I've never been in that situation.

I can't shoot or kill an animal,

Have Kenny stand guard with his arsenal;)

I used to sleep with trainers on and a length of 2x2 by the bed, just in case I heard someone coming in.

What does that say about the US society?

People here chastise Rich and I when we hint that the USA is a violent society - yet here you are saying you slept in trainers with a length of wood ready to batter a person.

Surely this proves Rich and I are right after all?

Col

What does that say about the US society?

Very little, really, read on.

People here chastise Rich and I when we hint that the USA is a violent society - yet here you are saying you slept in trainers with a length of wood ready to batter a person.

I did indeed.

Surely this proves Rich and I are right after all?

Ah, if only....:)

This was back home in Blighty. Cardiff, to be exact.

I am talking of pointing a gun at someone who has broken into your house and pulling the trigger and killing them. I don't give a monkey's toss what it's called. To me it's taking a human life.

How Americans can do this is quite frankly beyond me. It indicates what little value Americans put on human life. That's why the US troops like to shoot anything that moves I guess, no matter if they are friend or foe.

Col

As far as shooting someone that broke into my house; if they are not in yet I would shout at them and say I am calling the cops.
If they continue to try to come in then I would shoot over the top of their head,
and IF they still want to come in after all those(plenty enough time for them to leave on their own)
then it is shoot to kill because they obviously have something else in mind.

Of course that is if i hear them.
If I am snoring and don't hear them then what do I do? (boobytrap the doors and windows? - which is a crime here so i can't do that)

By the way I have a 2 year old daughter, If I find someone in my house not invited they will get hurt, how hurt(dead or alive) really depends on them.
They made the choice to cross that barrier. They will have to live with the consequences.

Ok, let's get pedantic again...

I take it you're implying that I was aiming that "xenophobic remark" at Americans. I wasn't .... etc (see above).

My apologies, my assumption came from this statement

That post was ment against both sides of this 'debate'.



I'm not going to trawl through all the past posts to prove you wrong, and neither are you judging on how you cleverly challenged me to do it.

Can you honestly say there is not one post in all the threads in this forum in which an American has discriminated against someone's race?

To be really anally pedantic, not all UK citizens are British. Get your facts right. blah, blah, blah...

You're right I get overly pedantic sometimes, I apologise.

This was back home in Blighty. Cardiff, to be exact.


So what was the reason? Killer ants on the loose? Rampant daffodils like triffids?

Col

You're right I get overly pedantic sometimes, I apologise.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

So what was the reason? Killer ants on the loose? Rampant daffodils like triffids?

Col
Sh*t area. I grew up in a place called Llanrumney and it had a bad reputation for certain things (especially car theft). We eventually worked out that the break-ins were down to someone who knew me, as every time I went on holiday, the house got broken into, regardless of whether my family were home or not. Never did find out who it was, but after adding barbed wire in trees, broken glass on wall-tops, etc. it stopped.

Sh*t area. I grew up in a place called Llanrumney and it had a bad reputation for certain things (especially car theft). We eventually worked out that the break-ins were down to someone who knew me, as every time I went on holiday, the house got broken into, regardless of whether my family were home or not. Never did find out who it was, but after adding barbed wire in trees, broken glass on wall-tops, etc. it stopped.

Who did you tell you were going on holiday - only close family need to know you are actually away.

How many times it happen? I'd have made it obviuos I was away, got some big mates around and collared/battered the bastards.

Who did you tell you were going on holiday - only close family need to know you are actually away.

How many times it happen? I'd have made it obviuos I was away, got some big mates around and collared/battered the bastards.
I didn't specificaly tell anyone I was going, so who knows how they found out? This was some years ago and while I was quite confident in my ability to beat the snot out of anyone I caught doing it, by the time we'd tied it into my absences, we'd added the extra security - and, rather ironically, been warned by the local police that it was too dangerous and, if anyone got hurt, we could be prosecuted - and it stopped. I'd guess we got robbed about four times and the car went seven times in three weeks (that one was kids, as it was always found in the local area).

Only once did I get close to one of the b*stards. My mother called upstairs to tell me and my Dad that someone was crouching down by the car. Turned out he was syphoning petrol. I went downstairs and unlocked the door as quietly as I could, then ran for him. Unfortunately for me, he was with a friend on a 'scrambler' bike, who'd kept the engine running. As I got about six feet from him, he saw me, jumped on the back of the bike and they were gone. I threw the bat I had at him, but missed. We did get a free petrol can out of it, as he dropped it when he left.:)

Once I'd moved away from home, it was real relief when my parents moved to a different area.

Its a shame the scumbags could repeatedly get away with it.

I'd build some tiered sytem of jail - any offence a short sharp shock - next offence a slightly more seriuos sentence continue and you can spend your life behind a fence with armed gaurds patroling.

I don't think that harsh, noones needs to rob to live in this country anymore - those who do choose to rob/harass should face this stark choice, and the choice is entirely theirs.

I think many kids drift into a life like this cos that got away with no consequnces early on, by the time there are consequnces they are into that life, with no qualifcations, no cv, know no differant, and we have to increase immigration to cover and pay for their inadequancies.

There was a youth centre at the bottom of the hill I lived on. It gives a fair indication of the area that there were always one or two lefties handing out leaflets to the kids, advising them of their legal rights when (not 'if') the police gave them a pull. Most of the people I was in school with knew exactly what to stop doing at what age, because the sentence would likely go up.

If that worked at a certain level of offence - then level needed to be lowered to stop all those but the truly hopeless criminal cases.

I see it as helping all those able to be helped to lead a socially responsible life - by steering them the right way, or else early on.

Many will disagree.

On one hand, I can look at it logically and see how some people need help, etc. On the other, it's hard to remain dispassionate when you or someone you care about has been a victim. :confused:

Its a shame the scumbags could repeatedly get away with it.

I'd build some tiered sytem of jail - any offence a short sharp shock - next offence a slightly more seriuos sentence continue and you can spend your life behind a fence with armed gaurds patroling.
.

Don't be silly, our prisons are allready full of real criminals like hotel owners who won't let gay couples sleep together, drivers talking on a hands free, men who pay to have sex, anyone who dares to protest against the war in Iraq outside parliament etc. etc. There's no room in the inn for murderers, muggers, thugs, anti socials and any other petty crime:rolleyes:

The problem is not the police, its the judges.
People commit vile and vicious crimes and they get little or no time in prison for it.
Then the system lets them out on parole after 2/3 of their sentence. Check the parole office in your area. Five officers to look after 200 parolees. They have no idea what these people are upto.

I would like to see some judges with the courage to say:
"you deserve 5 years imprisonment for this. I'm sentencing you to 7 years. When you get out on parole you will have served 5 years".

Here we go again - this must be the 5th incident on this thread.

5 students shot in college in Illinois and 18 injured by yet another crazed Yank.

Mind you, geography is a bit boring

Col

Here we go again - this must be the 5th incident on this thread.

5 students shot in college in Illinois and 18 injured by yet another crazed Yank.

Mind you, geography is a bit boring

Col

You should rant on... It seems to be helping :)

Ken,

The reason the English are pissed of with everything is because:

1) America booted them out

2) They should have left the convicts in England and the rest should have moved to that big bit of dirt called Australia:D

You know Ken, how would you feel if you were living on a bit of dirt that is smaller than a big Australian cattle station....and your population was three times Australia's:D

The Englanders fucked up twice and the fuckups were both big time.:)

And yes....they are still trying to come to grips with the fact that England no longer matters......

Mike

You're quite articulate in a.m. (what time is it there?)

(The only error that jumps out though is the count, I'd say it's a bit more that 2... :) )

Ken,

10.45pm when that post was made....so I mucked up the count:D

So are you guys ahead of us or behind us?

So are you guys ahead of us or behind us?

Nobody is behind the US.

Brian

Nobody is behind the US.

Brian

First sensible thing you've said in a while - :)

May I quote you?

Ken,

Check this

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

Be my guest.

Brian

Ken,

Check this

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

Is it Friday morning or Saturday Morning there?

10 minutes into Saturday in Sydney....midnight Friday just passed. That is our east coast time.

New York is 16 hours behind Sydney at this time of year. Out about March it will be 14 hours as New York heads to daylight saving and Australia comes off daylight saving.

At the moment the West Coast of the US if A is 19 hours behind Australia...almost the complete day and it is 21 hours behind New Zealand. Peral harbour end of town is almost the full day.

I don't know the English times as it is irrelevant:)

PS,

Because we are nearly a full day in front of the US of A, that explains why my macros work better than your code:D

Ken
Is it geography or telling the time your having trouble with?

The link shows that New Zealand is at the latest time Saturday morning, ie it is the most advanced time, this is because the date line runs down the Pacific, and why Japan calls itself the land of the rising sun, and why nobody is behind the US

Brian

Ken
Is it geography or telling the time your having trouble with?

At the moment it's having a friendly, casual conversation about time, etc with Mike that I having a problem with ;)

Ken,

Nothing to do with time difference....but we saw the Moon landing a couple of seconds before you blokes. The reason being that signals were picked up in Australia and then relayed to America. There is a part of Australia that would make you think we are the head quarters for the CIA.

When Douglas MacCarthur came to Australia in WWII it was not just America liking Australia but a case of America could not have this big bit of dirt in the Southern Hemisphere in Asian hands. Same deal today:D

What's the local take on why the Brits managed to muck up so many of their strong holds around the globe? Spread too thin maybe?

What's the local take on why the Brits managed to muck up so many of their strong holds around the globe? Spread too thin maybe?

A property I shoot on is nearly as big as England. :) Therein lies their problem. Compounding that problem is the attitude of "we still rule the world":D

What's the local take on why the Brits managed to muck up so many of their strong holds around the globe? Spread too thin maybe?

I think that was the main cause. There's a limit to how far supply lines can stretch. Plus, invading and taking over a country is relatively easy when your army and navy are far superior to theirs. Once you've 'civilised' them, landed colonies and developed the infrastructure a bit, the differece isn't as pronounced and it's far harder to keep hold of them.

There's also the fact that the bigger your 'empire' gets and the more people you push around, the more people you p*ss off (we weren't just fighting the Americans when you lot got independence, don't forget - although I did recently meet one guy from New York who thought that the statue of liberty was a wholly american creation). This point is being learned by the US now, as it was by the British, Romans, etc. etc. etc. before them.

I'm a bit rusty - how did you manage to 'although' together independence with the origin of the statue of liberty?

we weren't just fighting the Americans when you lot got independence, don't forget - >in spite of the fact that< I did recently meet one guy from New York who thought that the statue of liberty was a wholly american creation

I'm a bit rusty - how did you manage to 'although' together independence with the origin of the statue of liberty?
Just as an example of how not everything in the US is american in origin. I wasn't implying the two had a direct link.:)

Afterthought: Although I doubt the French would have been quite so keen to commemorate the centenary of a military victory if they hadn't played a large part in it.

I thought Alc was alluding to the fact that most Americans seem to think that a bunch of country boys whipped the British army all by themselves, a misconception helped by the fact that a tour of the Independence trail etc hardly, if at all, I don't remember it, mentions the crucial involvement of the French army, and French and Spanish navies.

But hey lets not open this can of worms yet again.

Got your world time clock sorted now Kenny?

Brian

I thought Alc was alluding to the fact that most Americans seem to think that a bunch of country boys whipped the British army all by themselves, a misconception helped by the fact that a tour of the Independence trail etc hardly, if at all, I don't remember it, mentions the crucial involvement of the French army, and French and Spanish navies.

But hey lets not open this can of worms yet again.

Got your world time clock sorted now Kenny?

Brian

You're right, lets not go there, even though most everybody has whipped the British army at one time or another and sent them home with their tail between their legs :)

Being from Alabama, taking one step to the right (into Georgia) and being 1 hour later than I was 2 seconds ago gives me enough of a head ache. Being able to take one step right and being an entire day late is just too much...:):)

even though most everybody has whipped the British army at one time or another and sent them home with their tail between their legs :)


Such as?:confused::rolleyes:

Such as?:confused::rolleyes:

http://www.friedgold.co.uk/battles.html

http://www.friedgold.co.uk/battles.html

What utter bloody American rubbish, let's just take one example, we were defeated at Dunkirk, remind me again who went on to defeat Rommel etc?:rolleyes:
Who won the Boer war, who was beaten in the Suez war and another thing what war worthy of note and in recent times have the Americans won without us holding their hand? I'm reminded of two recent conflicts, Vietnam and the Falklands, similar events, just different outcomes:rolleyes:

Ken, do you ever read all the way through what you post?

I have no wish to discuss these on a battle by battle basis but they are the opinions of one person and the superficiality of his opinions soon becomes obvious.
That is not to say that some of those conflicts listed were not military defeats.

Waterloo. He gives victory to the Germans??? It is true that Bluchers Prussian troops' late arrival confirmed the final victory after the British had fought the French to a standstill, but his comments are pathetic.

His last paragraph suffers from hindsight, one reason the British were divided over the american war of independence was that those colonies were costing money, whereas the Carribean colonies were providing income and the British were not going to risk the French or Spanish taking them whilst we were engaged elsewhere.

there is more but I will leave it there.

Brian

And another thing Kenny, ignore Mikes ramblings, he talks as though Australia fought a war of Independence, perhaps you should ask him for the dates.

brian

Just read a bit more of the link ken, the guy even lies

Joan of Arc never lived to enjoy her victories, we killed her

The Burgundians burned her for heresy when the French refused her ransom and she continued to say that she was talking with God, good christian folk the Burgundians.

Brian

What utter bloody American rubbish,

It seems to be utter Berkshire (http://www.friedgold.co.uk/index.html) rubbish :cool:

It seems to be utter Berkshire (http://www.friedgold.co.uk/index.html) rubbish :cool:

Beng this Berkshire yes I agree
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Berkshires

Geez... You guys are a bit touchy. Seems you can dish it out but can't take it - Poor sports I'd say. :)

If Australia is advanced timewise - how come it's so backward culturally.

Even the girls can spit 20 yards and shear a sheep at the same time.

Col

Geez... You guys are a bit touchy. Seems you can dish it out but can't take it - Poor sports I'd say. :)

We can take the truth but not the rubbish from that link, what fact that there is there is swmped by the rubbish. If you cannot see the rubbish then I guess that proves your history is as good as your knowledge of geography and time.


Actually sometimes its not knowledge that's required but consistency.

Dunkirk We fought a retreat to brink our guys home, mainly successfully. He calls it a defeat even though we went on to win the war.

Agincourt, where we crushed the French, is considered a defeat because we eventually lost the war.
:confused::confused::confused:

Brian

I avoided all the banter on this one but still I maintain that the USA needs to focus their troops on ending violence on domestic soil rather then the current direction of global domination through the forced control of all the oil stocks. Just a thought based on innocent people getting rather fed up with being shot at, etc

I avoided all the banter on this one but still I maintain that the USA needs to focus their troops on ending violence on domestic soil rather then the current direction of global domination through the forced control of all the oil stocks. Just a thought based on innocent people getting rather fed up with being shot at, etc

Why break the habit of 200+ years - the Yanks always shoot each other, they all think they're Wyatt Earp or Jesse James.

Col