Like the inhabitants of that island. The human race is facing a new dawn.

History is replete with change, and on some occasion extinction. We are the first generation with the knowledge to foresee this end, and yet with all our knowledge and technology do we have the wisdom, courage, and discipline to change the course.

Actually I don’t believe we do, maybe it is ordained that we would end here, maybe we will have a chance to change.

As the human race has continued to thrive in this last century, more and more are moving to materialism, and all of the associated cost. Since WWII the industrial age has grown to encompass more than 2 billion additional people, soon the Chinese will be living the lives of their Western counterparts. When this happens the demand for natural resources will either cause huge shortages, pollution, and hardship for the most vulnerable members of the race, or a global conflict; or both.

So what can we do to stem the tide.

When faced with gang green the traditional remedy has been to cut off the limb before the patient dies. Are such drastic measures necessary now, or will we work together to find ways to sustain economies (so essential for us) while preserving life or will we wait until we need an amputation?

When this happens the demand for natural resources will either cause huge shortages, pollution, and hardship for the most vulnerable members of the race, or a global conflict; or both.

So what can we do to stem the tide.
As you live in the country (questionably) deemed the worlds worst polluter.

You could vote in a President who doesn't wave 2 fingers at the Kyoto agreement, who also refuses to legislate big polluting companies to cut emissions because their "backhanders" would stop.

You could vote in one who has at least a mild interest in saving the planet instead of destroying it.

You could all stop running round in gas guzzlers. You could have a huge tax levied on petrol (like we have) to force this.

None of the above will happen because of money.

You can't blame the Chinese for wanting what we have had in the "west" - remember the joy of getting your first car?

The Chinese and India are a little late - but rapidly climbing the world wealth chart. When "the west" did what they are doing now, we all knew nothing of pollution etc.

The Chinese / India are bound to say "sod off" we're doing what you've done for decades - don't preach to us. And if the Americans or "the west" try to dictate to the Chinese then god [whatever it may be] help us

Col

I think things will get very interesting soon, as the resources become scare. Africa that is the source, but is very poor will have diffrent countries competing for its resources (but don't let the african people benifit). damm if only we still had our empire we would be sorted...,

If you want to make some money buy a couple of tonnes of copper..

If you want to make some money buy a couple of tonnes of copper..
I took a load to the scrap yard just a few weeks ago, it wasn't worth the bother:mad:

As you live in the country (questionably) deemed the worlds worst polluter.

You could vote in a President who doesn't wave 2 fingers at the Kyoto agreement, who also refuses to legislate big polluting companies to cut emissions because their "backhanders" would stop.

You could vote in one who has at least a mild interest in saving the planet instead of destroying it.

You could all stop running round in gas guzzlers. You could have a huge tax levied on petrol (like we have) to force this.

None of the above will happen because of money.

You can't blame the Chinese for wanting what we have had in the "west" - remember the joy of getting your first car?

The Chinese and India are a little late - but rapidly climbing the world wealth chart. When "the west" did what they are doing now, we all knew nothing of pollution etc.

The Chinese / India are bound to say "sod off" we're doing what you've done for decades - don't preach to us. And if the Americans or "the west" try to dictate to the Chinese then god [whatever it may be] help us

Col

I don’t disagree with you at all. I am certainly not blaming them for wanting to join the consumer crowd. And don’t think that I don’t believe in capitalism either. There’s much more to materialism than just owning a bunch of stuff, it also provides a means and a reason to seek out education.

As far as the pollution is concerned, I guess in ways Ben Laden won many more victories over the US than just killing some of our people. The fear factor just consumed so many people that they were willing to ignore all of the damage the Bush administration was doing to the environment.

Now these aren’t just suppositions, there is real evidence that the Bush administration changed reports to the American People, put lawyers in charge of the dissemination of science, and put illegal gag orders on career government scientist.

And lastly the current administration has taught its “Ditto Head” followers that the proper argument, to any attack on lack of interest by this administration, is to bring up global warming. Because as you know there is a strong possibility that its is natural and therefore the Repubs can’t be blamed for it.

What they aren’t taught or they choose to ignore is that the high levels of mercury disulfate currently in US Fresh water is directly related to the Bush administration’s policies.

And before FOFA speaks up in their defense, let me tell you, installing the legally mandated equipment would have created jobs, not increased profit. Don’t ever let the republicans snow you with job creation. They could care less if any economically lower class person ever had a job; well they want them to have a job, it just needs to pay slave wages.

By the way I’m not a liberal, I could care less if same sex marriage passes or not, my only thoughts about abortion are to the extent that I care about how they are affecting who we elect, and I don’t believe in government handouts. So before any of you decide to call me a liberal, take this into consideration.

If I’m wrong about the environment, than at worse we create a few million jobs cleaning it up.

If I’m right…


PS: more on the Chinese element later.

I took a load to the scrap yard just a few weeks ago, it wasn't worth the bother:mad:

and keep it for 10 years...

Jen - I'm glad you didn't view my post as an anti-American rant. It wasn't meant to be.:rolleyes: We too have issues over pollution, but not quite as difficult as in the US.

I was going to refer to the tampering of environment reports by GWB - it was exposed on a BBC documentary a couple of months ago. I was saving it up for later;)

I hope that the next US president will do something constructive even if its upsetting big business.

Going back to cars - we have SUV's (4 x 4's we say) but, these are being seen increasingly as non PC, a bit like drinking and driving. There are some 4 x 4 owners who have had their cars deliberately damaged (or "keyed" as we call it), spat at, and had name calling etc
A recent programme on it showed several people who had gone back to normal cars because of the 4 x 4 aggro they got. Also showed how sales are dropping. Hopefully owning one will be totally despised in due time.
Personally, I can't see the need for a 4 x 4 when the only off-road work is Tesco's car park. If they are truly needed (like farmers etc) then its ok.
Dropping a little brat off at school in a 4 x 4 is disgusting.

You see, Me and Rich and Ken and others do our bit by riding motorbikes, but our good is wiped out by the un-necessary Chelsea tractor brigade (4 x 4 owners):rolleyes:

Col

I was going to refer to the tampering of environment reports by GWB - it was exposed on a BBC documentary a couple of months ago. I was saving it up for later;)


Col

This is just a side bar, referring to your point about the BBC, and relating it to you guys claming we have censored news.

NPR reported on the scandal with the power companies 2 or 3 years ago and 60 minutes reported on the cover up of government funded science being obscured, last year sometime.

Another little thing, about resources. There's loads of coal below Centralia, Pennsylvania which has been idly burning for the last forty years and, it's estimated, has enough fuel to keep it burning for 250 years. There are no plans to extinguish this fire. Surely that must be doing the old global warming no favours.

EDIT: Smithsonian Article (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2005/may/firehole.php). Such fires are burning all over the world. Not just America. ;)

I hope that the next US president will do something constructive even if its upsetting big business.

If they are truly needed (like farmers etc) then its ok.
Dropping a little brat off at school in a 4 x 4 is disgusting.



Col
Sorry for paraphrasing your post Col, but I don’t believe we will need much more than to take away some of the incredibly biased tax “reforms” from the previous congress to see a diminishing of support for American SUVs.

The funny thing is, that in ways, the current problems in Detroit stem from the car makers lobbying Washington to exclude SUV from being classified as cars. For a while they were able to sell them without all of the pollution and mileage regulations.

So the Japanese, Korean, and European SUV makers (in order to penetrate the lucrative American SUV market) started building more efficient models.

As soon as we had that gas spike earlier this year, Americans abandoned the big SUVs in droves.

Deservingly leaving Detroit holding the bag.

This is just a side bar, referring to your point about the BBC, and relating it to you guys claming we have censored news.

NPR reported on the scandal with the power companies 2 or 3 years ago and 60 minutes reported on the cover up of government funded science being obscured, last year sometime.
Good for you - and what has come out of this? sweet FA. Fat lot of good it did exposing it in the USA eh?:p


Col

There's loads of coal below Centralia, Pennsylvania which has been idly burning for the last forty years
is that near New Orleans? the sea could have put the fire out;)

Col

Good for you - and what has come out of this? sweet FA. Fat lot of good it did exposing it in the USA eh?:p


Col



As I stated earlier the administration seriously capitalized on fear. But as you can readily surmise from our latest elections that fear factor has subsided.

Republicans under Karl Rove’s leadership; have utilized fear and abortion to completely dominate American politics for the last 6 years. Finely the masses have come around to my way of thinking.

is that near New Orleans? the sea could have put the fire out;)

Col

No Col, Its 1400 miles away.

You see, Me and Rich and Ken and others do our bit by riding motorbikes, but our good is wiped out by the un-necessary Chelsea tractor brigade (4 x 4 owners):rolleyes:

Col
I'll believe that's the reason you do it when you are on 50cc mopeds :D

brian

50cc ones are for teenagers who can't be arsed to take a proper test.

Ken Rich and I ride somewhat different ones - well Rich and I do, Ken rides a Hardly Driveable tractor thingy;) :D

Col

speaking of which, it was actually warm enough to bring the bike to work today :D :D :D :D

But Col
surely if you justify riding big bikes by saying small ones are for kids then the drivers of big cars can adopt a similar attitude, and given the distances in the states I would go along with them, the only time I wished I had my little hatch was on the PCH when its better handling would have been more fun.
I've driven Dodge Intrepid and Neon (amongst others) over there and I know which one i preffered

Brian

speaking of which, it was actually warm enough to bring the bike to work today :D :D :D :D
It was here too. It was 1.2c or about 34F

Col

It was here too. It was 1.2c or about 34F

Col:eek: :eek: :eek: How far are you commuting and at what speeds???

what I was saying was that where it was not justified, a 4 x 4 does generate some anxiety in society.

I would venture to say that (possibly) my 2 litre Mondeo estate is not the most economical, but I do need a car of that size. But I don't drive it daily as I use the bike

Col

:eek: :eek: :eek: How far are you commuting and at what speeds???

Not far fortunately. About 5 miles, 30 mph (ish) through town and I have heated grips;)

Col

what I was saying was that where it was not justified, a 4 x 4 does generate some anxiety in society.

Col

Joking aside I hate 4 x 4 s too, I have noticed that they frequently park in the disabled bays in car parks as the drivers cannot sqeeze them into the normal bays, as we need a disabled bay for me to help my wife out I am sometimes forced to park across the middle of 2 normal bays.

Brian

Not far fortunately. About 5 miles, 30 mph (ish) through town and I have heated grips;)

Colwell, that explains it;) I have 33 miles, 50 - 70 mph...under 50 F, I leave the bike in the garage:(

well, that explains it;) I have 33 miles, 50 - 70 mph...under 50 F, I leave the bike in the garage:(

You would only use it for 4 months here.

Brian

You would only use it for 4 months here.

BrianI leave for work at 5:45am, so 4 months is about all I get here too...with the exception of the odd days like today and weekend/day off cruising, of course.

Joking aside I hate 4 x 4 s too, I have noticed that they frequently park in the disabled bays in car parks as the drivers cannot sqeeze them into the normal bays, as we need a disabled bay for me to help my wife out I am sometimes forced to park across the middle of 2 normal bays.
Thats why I need the Mondeo estate, I too get upset at normal drivers pinching the disabled bays.

Col

I leave for work at 5:45am, so 4 months is about all I get here too...with the exception of the odd days like today and weekend/day off cruising, of course.

Had I left at that time this morning, it was below freezing, I would have thought about taking the car, I don't ride on icy and snowy roads. Today was a "dry" frost, so the roads were ok.

Col

Had I left at that time this morning, it was below freezing, I would have thought about taking the car, I don't ride on icy and snowy roads. Today was a "dry" frost, so the roads were ok.

Col

For snowy roads I have a 1990 Ford F250 4WD Extra Heavy Duty.

It sits until it snows. 9 mpg.

You would only use it for 4 months here.

Brian
Met a guy from Finland a few years back, he rides his all year round:eek: ;)

Met a guy from Finland a few years back, he rides his all year round:eek: ;)I see bikers with fairings are still riding routinely...I guess wind blocking would be one benefit of the extra weight. Those of you with them, how much does it cut down on the wind-chill?

They're for cissies:cool:

well, that explains it;) I have 33 miles, 50 - 70 mph...under 50 F, I leave the bike in the garage:(
You dawdle on the way to work, how about the homeward journey:confused:

You dawdle on the way to work, how about the homeward journey:confused:I try to dawdle on the way home, too;)

you did note that's not KPH?

I try to dawdle on the way home, too;)

Are things that bad there ?:confused: ;)

you did note that's not KPH
Christ that would have been worse:eek:

Are things that bad there ?:confused: ;) No, I had... speed issues in my younger years :cool: I do manage a good run every now and again... cobwebs need to be blown out from time to time, you know;)

I understand, take it easy;) :)

Had I left at that time this morning, it was below freezing, I would have thought about taking the car, I don't ride on icy and snowy roads. Today was a "dry" frost, so the roads were ok.

Col

its been pretty chilly on the scooter recently....i urgently need to buy -


winter gloves
proper bike trousers (currently just ride in suit trousers which has little windproofing:eek: )
a stylish moped rider flappy scarf...hmmmm, maybe not.
heated grip thingys - although may just buy a big bike that has them fitted. not sure if it is just the old man tourer bikes that come with those fitted!


does riding in this weather make me a hardcore winter biker?!?:D

Don't be such a woosey, at your age you shouldn't feel the cold:D

Don't be such a woosey, at your age you shouldn't feel the cold:D

I's Wussy, and how did my thread on the end of the human race become a motercycle discussion?

I's Wussy,
Not here it isn't

and how did my thread on the end of the human race become a motercycle discussion?
your thread was boring, still nothing new there

I's Wussy, and how did my thread on the end of the human race become a motercycle discussion?

sorry joe :o , i guess i'll make an on-post comment to make up for the off-post one!


As the human race has continued to thrive in this last century, more and more are moving to materialism, and all of the associated cost. Since WWII the industrial age has grown to encompass more than 2 billion additional people, soon the Chinese will be living the lives of their Western counterparts. When this happens the demand for natural resources will either cause huge shortages, pollution, and hardship for the most vulnerable members of the race, or a global conflict; or both.

i agree, our current way of living is not going to last forever....resources from land through oil to water are becoming more scarce. if china and india develop a taste for oil comparable with western levels then the environment is in for a real kicking.

and water will be the cause of future wars too.


So what can we do to stem the tide.

When faced with gang green the traditional remedy has been to cut off the limb before the patient dies. Are such drastic measures necessary now, or will we work together to find ways to sustain economies (so essential for us) while preserving life or will we wait until we need an amputation?

we need to make sure that clean technologies are actively promoted to developing nations to ensure that energy use is as clean and efficient as possible.

As I stated earlier the administration seriously capitalized on fear. But as you can readily surmise from our latest elections that fear factor has subsided.

Republicans under Karl Rove’s leadership; have utilized fear and abortion to completely dominate American politics for the last 6 years. Finely the masses have come around to my way of thinking.

I've said it before, Bush and his Administration are all terrorists. They should be at war with themselves for what they put this country through.

how did my thread on the end of the human race become a motercycle discussion?

It stared as early as the second post when Col mentioned the joy of getting your first car

Brrian

I've said it before, Bush and his Administration are all terrorists. They should be at war with themselves for what they put this country through.
But is there any more likelyhood of them standing trial for lies and incompetence than there is for Bliar?:mad:

As I stated earlier the administration seriously capitalized on fear. But as you can readily surmise from our latest elections that fear factor has subsided.

Oh yes indeed. The constant drivel from both Bush and Blair that we are facing a new kind of enemy who are more extreme then ever.

Give me a break, the Japanese were running suicide missions sixty odd years ago, and their military capability extended a little way beyond some thugs armed with knives. I really have no idea what a WW2 vet must think when they hear this kind of sensationalist rhetoric.

Oh yes indeed. The constant drivel from both Bush and Blair that we are facing a new kind of enemy who are more extreme then ever.
.
That's because the easiest way for governments to get control back from the people is to put the fear of Christ into them.

That's because the easiest way for governments to get control back from the people is to put the fear of Christ into them.

There's no fear of Christ, if you’re going to make a point about our religion being the root of all problems in the world, then at least make your quotes accurate.

It’s “The fear of God”. God brought law to Mosses and so the people feared.
Jesus brought Grace to us, so we do not fear him. It’s his absence that we fear.

There's no fear of Christ, if you’re going to make a point about our religion being the root of all problems in the world, than at least make your quotes accurate.


I wonder why paranoia and Americans go together hand in hand, the fear of Christ is a common expression here. Where did I mention your religion?:rolleyes:

It’s “The fear of God”. God brought law to Mosses and so the people feared.


So God rules by fear, fear of what exactly?:confused:

This is just getting really sad. You claim you're not talking about religion in one post and then in the very next post you start talking about religion.

It's so obvious you used the term 'Christ' as a red flag.

To be honest I'm just not sure why you're not picking up on the amount of bad feeling caused by this kind of stick poking.
Jesus Christ! I wasn't the one who brought God into the conversation:rolleyes:

Jesus Christ! I wasn't the one who brought God into the conversation:rolleyes:

Really Rich?

I honestly think, you should seek counsiling.

So God rules by fear, fear of what exactly?:confused:

Are you kiding?

I honestly think, you should seek counsiling.
Don't need another American tradition thanks

Heres one solution for pollution. It will clean up the air and all nations using this idea will be in compliance with Kyoto.

10 years from today it becomes a criminal offence to own, produce, use or posses gasoline (petrol).

All cars currently using it will have to be converted to another power source. All those handy household things like lawn mowers and portable generators will have to be converted.

Vehicles over 5 tonnes gross weight will still be allowed to use deisel, but only those vehicles.

Now we can find out if all those alternate energy sources the auto manufacturers have been keeping under wraps really exist.

God brought law to Mosses
Doesn't that grow on rocks and stuff?:confused: We used to get moss in our lawn.

Col

Doesn't that grow on rocks and stuff?:confused: We used to get moss in our lawn.

Col

Of course, but by now most everyone else is used to my typos.

God brought law to Mosses
Didn't he also order David to commit genocide?