Well came across this on the news wires. Now tell you the truth thats a piece of history that is new to me...meaning the whole Falklands controversy. I have seen it mentioned around here several but really dont know the history of it.

Came across this today and was wondering what you UK people think of this claim?

I have to read more about the Falklands war and all...but after seeing the map of where they are, its seems to me they belong to Argentina. Its a double standard here...possibly.

I know the unpopluar Iraq war and all, and have heard several people here talk about how the US should get out of the Middle East or whatever.

But you have a set of islands off Argentina, they obviouusly you had invaded or taken during your colonization...

Do you find justfied for Agentinians to tell you to get out? If so why are people in UK more focused on US and UK getting out of Iraq then the british getting out of the Falklands...seems strange, kinda like a double standard. Its obviously belongs to Argentina.

Oh wait...I got it. UK must have some interest in keeping the islands for its own purpose or addvantage, maybe its money...kinda like the US has in Iraq..mmm.

United Press International - Thursday, January 25, 2007


Date: Thursday, January 25, 2007 1:32:55 AM EST

BUENOS AIRES, Jan. 24 (UPI) -- On the eve of the 25th anniversary of the Falklands War, Argentina is once again asserting its claim to the Falkland Islands.

Argentina last week claimed the British stole the islands in 1833, the Washington Post reported.

Argentine President Nestor Kirchner -- who grew up on the Falklands -- has taken pains every so often to draw the world's attention to Argentina's claim, and has asked the United Nations to intervene in the claim for the islands that Argentines call the Malvinas.

"The recuperation of the Malvinas must be a national objective, and through peaceful dialogue, we must recover them," said Kirchner at a rally last year.

Argentina's former dictatorship launched an unsuccessful attack on the islands in 1982, a 73-day war that left 650 Argentines and 250 British dead.

But you have a set of islands off Argentina, they obviouusly you had invaded or taken during your colonization...

They were uninhabited when the Norwegians discovered them, they have been "owned" by numerous countries since, never Argentina, suggest you read up on them before commenting further.

Oh and as a point of principle are you saying that every large country owns the islands off its coast, like China and Taiwan??

Brian

They were uninhabited when the Norwegians discovered them, they have been "owned" by numerous countries since, never Argentina, suggest you read up on them before commenting further.

Oh and as a point of principle are you saying that every large country owns the islands off its coast, like China and Taiwan??

Brian

Yea my knoweledge of this is small. So they they were uninhabited, didnt know. Yea even the US has Guam and some small islands. But it seems that they are really pressing to have them returned.

Is the opinion in UK on the side of keeping them or returning them?

The only sensible solution to territory acquired from other states or local people or noone centuries before the modern international laws where in place,would be to follow the will of those who live there now.

You will find, this is exactly what has happened in many many of the UK colonies if not all.






So the Falklands is British.


Its obviously belongs to Argentina.


Hows that?

If laws where in place saying that they were Argentinian, I guess we'd have to give them to Argentina and would be double standards if we didn't.

The only sensible solution to territory acquired from other states or local people or noone centuries before the modern international laws where in place,would be to follow the will of those who live there now.

You will find, this is exactly what has happened in many many of the UK colonies if not all.






So the Falklands is British.




Hows that?

Well it seems that they should obviously belong to Argentina because of the location...I mean hell, I dont even remember the Falklands War, but it seems that Argentina had some balls to attack Britain due to the fact of British military dominance of that country...

I have to read some more about...just dont remember anything about from school. Plus the fact im a young guy so I was like 5 when this happend.

Is the opinion in UK on the side of keeping them or returning them?

Probably keeping them as it is thought that the waters out there maybe rich in oil etc, which is why Argentina, or at least its ruling class descendend from the Spanish colonists now want it.

Brian

Argentina had some balls to attack Britain
Argentina didn't attack Britain, it invaded the Falklands, we sent down a task force to sort them out.

I have to read some more about...just dont remember anything about from school. Plus the fact im a young guy so I was like 5 when this happend.
That proves what Rich and I have been saying, the USA history lessons focus only on a skewed US bias. Anything other than USA is ignored as non-important.

Col

anyway, there's lots of sheep on the Falklands so we're not letting the Argies have them

Col

anyway, there's lots of sheep on the Falklands so we're not letting the Argies have them

Col

LOL...thats funny

anyway, there's lots of sheep on the Falklands so we're not letting the Argies have them

Col
No but they're welcome to the ones in Westminster though

Argentina didn't attack Britain, it invaded the Falklands, we sent down a task force to sort them out.


With a little help from your friends ;)

With a little help from your friends ;)
You SOLD us some missiles, I wonder what the strings were?:rolleyes: :p

With a little help from your friends ;)

you're right, I forgot. We used the Ascension Islands as a refuelling point.

Col

Col gotta ask you this.

In the history classes in the UK, do they teach you about the rest of the worlds history? like the US and Russia and Germany? or do they mainly focus on the country that you live in, The UK? Because in the experience I have, that if they went into the detail of every country and its history it would take an inordinate amount of time to teach about every single country out there. considering there are around 200 or so countries and if you took just one week for each country that is somewhere in the area of 4 years straight, with no breaks for holidays or summer. Just an observation is all.

http://geography.about.com/cs/countries/a/numbercountries.htm

you're right, I forgot. We used the Ascension Islands as a refuelling point.

Col

You received a lot of 'unofficial' intelligence support too :)

With a little help from your friends ;)
and the French sold the Argies the Super Étendard jet fighter.

Col

You received a lot of 'unofficial' intelligence support too :)
Like Iraq you mean, whilst you were selling the evil Iranians weapons on the sly:rolleyes:

Like Iraq you mean, whilst you were selling the evil Iranians weapons on the sly:rolleyes:

No, I meant the Falklands War not Iraq. Can't you stick to the topic in hand :confused:

You received a lot of 'unofficial' intelligence support too :)
oh yeah, like its bloody hard for the Argies to hide on an island the size of a football pitch. We may not have seen them:rolleyes:

Col

No, I meant the Falklands War not Iraq. Can't you stick to the topic in hand :confused:
I already answered the question previously:confused:

oh yeah, like its bloody hard for the Argies to hide on an island the size of a football pitch. We may not have seen them:rolleyes:


If you'd read up on your own country's history you'd know the fighting zone was a lot bigger than that :rolleyes:

I already answered the question previously:confused:

Good for you. Try to stop babbling on about the Middle East when we're talking about the Falklands, there's a good chap :D

Good for you. Try to stop babbling on about the Middle East when we're talking about the Falklands, there's a good chap :D
Try reading the answers then, who knows, you might learn from them:p

If you'd read up on your own country's history you'd know the fighting zone was a lot bigger than that :rolleyes:
I knew that - but thanks for pointing it out, I will refrain from humour as its obviously lost on you. Although, most of the fighting was around the Port Stanley area (as you well know) and that area is fairly compact (as you well know)

Col

Col gotta ask you this.

In the history classes in the UK, do they teach you about the rest of the worlds history? like the US and Russia and Germany?

I have no idea what they teach currently, but I was taught about many major country's conflicts as well as our own. We covered the Spanish / Portugese / French colonisations, various civil wars and the like. We learnt that the USA has been the only country to drop a nuclear device on civilians killing thousands at a stroke.

I read a book on the US civil war (I wanted the Confederates to win) and other country's history over the years, particularly European and the Spanish history which is quite fascinating.

Its more difficult these days I guess because the USA starts so many wars, then pulls out when it gets tough. Geography and History teachers must find it difficult to keep up.

If you want to talk history though, then SJ is your man, he has links to his history site.

Col

I knew that - but thanks for pointing it out, I will refrain from humour as its obviously lost on you. Although, most of the fighting was around the Port Stanley area (as you well know) and that area is fairly compact (as you well know)

Col

Try using a :p instead of a :rolleyes: to aid clarification ;)

and the French sold the Argies the Super Étendard jet fighter.

Col


and sold them exocet missiles which trashed a couple of our ships.

there was a really good documentary about it a while back. the argies bodged together some land based launch system for the missiles as they did not have the time/ability to hook them all up correctly to planes/ships.

if i recall right we did get a bit lucky....one exocet narrowly missed the troop ship and sunk a helicopter transport ship instead. we won after losing half a dozen 'copters.....don't think we would have won if we had lost a few hundred troops to the sea.

i believe that the waters around the falklands is very rich in fish as well as oil. that may be the attraction of the islands.

Try reading the answers then, who knows, you might learn from them:p

I'm trying to learn about the Falklands at the moment. Please don't stretch my limited American mental capacity :p

I'm trying to learn about the Falklands at the moment. Please don't stretch my limited American mental capacity :p
And limited is one statement that I can't argue with:cool: :p

And limited is one statement that I can't argue with:cool: :p

Col seems to think I'm doing well...:)

Although, most of the fighting was around the Port Stanley area (as you well know) and that area is fairly compact (as you well know)

Col

Col seems to think I'm doing well...:)
Well it's a start, but we've a long way to go yet:eek:

Try using a :p instead of a :rolleyes: to aid clarification ;)
ah, so I should use a smilie poking its tongue out to indicate that it was a joke about the football pitch size, otherwise you think its true.

Col seems to think I'm doing well...
That was also meant to be a joke. I doubt if you have any idea where the Falklands or even South America is.

Col

Hmmm

Two thoughts

1) Send for Maggie cos this PM got no spherical objects

2) Wonder if Bush will help us.

Worried about (2). The Falklands are not very big ... would the US miss it completely. By Miss It I mean with ships, Aircraft and various other exploding thingies
L

Well it's a start, but we've a long way to go yet:eek:

Yes, perhaps you'll spend the time to go through the British use of concentration camps during the Boer war. I'm little a lacking in that area. :p

1825 Britain and the Government of Buenos Aires sign a Treaty of Amity, Trade and Navigation which makes no reference to the Islands
1829 The United Provinces of Rio de la Plata appoint Vernet Governor of East Falkland;
Britain formally protests Vernet's appointment and reiterates its sovereignty claim
1833 British warships force departure of Don Pinedo and warship Sarandi, then depart leaving William Dickson in charge until Matthew Brisbane's return;
1834 British warships HMS Challenger and HMS Hopeful arrive at Port Louis;
Lt Henry Smith supported by a boat crew is left in charge as British military administrator;
Antonio Rivero and his gaucho gang are arrested and taken to England for trial;
Colony at Port Louis re-established and re-named Anson's Harbour;
now does this sound familiar
1884 Argentina asks that the sovereignty dispute be submitted to international arbitration but Britain ignores the request;
1960 UN Resolution 1514 calls for an end to colonialism;
Britain lists the Islands as a colony and Argentina objects
1961 Antarctic Treaty comes into effect freezing sovereignty over Antarctica for 30 years;
Establishment of local political party National Progressive Party;
UN establishes Decolonisation Committee by Resolution 1654
1973 Newly-elected Argentine Peronist government renews sovereignty claim in the UN which passes Resolution 3160 urging sovereignty negotiations;
Britain refuses to discuss sovereignty;
1981 British Nationality Act removes British nationality from any Falkland Islander who does not have a parent or grandparent born in Britain;
Argentina protests to UN over lack of progress on sovereignty dispute;
I like that "Liberated", almost sounds like Iraq
1982 2 April to 14 June 1982 Islands occupied by Argentine army until liberated by British Task Force - 257 Britons including 3 Islanders killed in the Conflict
1984 Talks between Argentina and Britain in Berne fail because Britain refuses to discuss sovereignty
1994 Amendment to Argentine Constitution ratifies Argentina's 'legitimate and imprescriptible sovereignty' over the Islands and makes their recovery 'a permanent and unrenounceable object of the Argentine people';

That was also meant to be a joke. I doubt if you have any idea where the Falklands or even South America is.


I've got to admit I don't find your jokes very funny, no offense.

Yes, perhaps you'll spend the time to go through the British use of concentration camps during the Boer war. I'm little a lacking in that area. :p
The Boer war was prior to the current Geneva convention - a little convention the USA has forgoten about on Guantanamo. Maybe the Geneva convention doesn't apply to the USA?

Col

So the world started in 1825, I'm only surprised that it is not 1793

Brian

The Boer war was prior to the current Geneva convention

So I'm not allowed to be taught about it :confused:

So the world started in 1825, I'm only surprised that it is not 1793

Brian

...and I thought our history was limited :D

So the world started in 1825, I'm only surprised that it is not 1793

Brian
It is the American version:D

I've got to admit I don't find your jokes very funny, no offence.
subtlety is always lost on Yanks - I don't know why I try to inject humour, its obviously something not in abundance in the USA.
If its not big / brash and slapstick, the Yanks can't fathom out the joke.
Odd that the most iconic "American" comics were actually English

Col

If its not big / brash and slapstick, the Yanks can't fathom out the joke.


Alternatively you could just not be very funny.

Alternatively you could just not be very funny.
I don't do alternative comedy

Col

and sold them exocet missiles which trashed a couple of our ships.

there was a really good documentary about it a while back. the argies bodged together some land based launch system for the missiles as they did not have the time/ability to hook them all up correctly to planes/ships.

if i recall right we did get a bit lucky....one exocet narrowly missed the troop ship and sunk a helicopter transport ship instead. we won after losing half a dozen 'copters.....don't think we would have won if we had lost a few hundred troops to the sea.

i believe that the waters around the falklands is very rich in fish as well as oil. that may be the attraction of the islands.

Wow so Argentina put a whooping on good old England huh...better take off those red coats...:p

Alternatively you could just not be very funny.

I find you hilarious Col!

Simple things amuse simple minds though.

I find you hilarious Col!

Simple things amuse simple minds though.

I thought he specialised in subtle humor :confused:

I don't think we can pigeonhole him, or put contraints on his talents.;)

I don't think we can pigeonhole him, or put contraints on his talents.;)

:D

Neither should we try to, much better to let the fledgling spread his wings.

I am sure he will thrive on this encouragement.

Wow so Argentina put a whooping on good old England huh...better take off those red coats...:p
Only an American can make a joke out of the tragic loss of life during the conflict:rolleyes:

Wow so Argentina put a whooping on good old England huh...better take off those red coats...:p


i wouldn't say we got a whooping - the union jack still flies above stanley(and it was the UK armed forces, not just England:) ).

have a read about the belgrano and the way our troops were forced to yomp miles and miles with little rest before engaging and then defeating the enemy. all in all it was a successful campaign fought miles from home.

all in all it was a successful campaign fought miles from home.

Nonsense, the Falklands are sovereign! :p

Nonsense, the Falklands are sovereign! :p
Like Hawaii, you mean?:confused:

Like Hawaii, you mean?:confused:

Hmmm. Good point. But Hawaii natives have just bambo and blow darts...they can never BREAK FREEE....NEVER...

Now Argentina...they sank your battleships.:D

Like Hawaii, you mean?:confused:

Look I've told you before, please stop bumbling on about locations thousands of miles from the Falklands :mad: :p

Now Argentina...they sank your battleships.:D
Like the Japs did to yours do you mean?:rolleyes:

Hmmm. Good point. But Hawaii natives have just bambo and blow darts...they can never BREAK FREEE....NEVER...

Place to call home

Hawaii or Falklands...
Hawaii or Falklands...
Hawaii or Falklands...
Hawaii or Falklands...
Hawaii or Falklands...

...ok, it's a tough one but I'm going to plump for Hawaii. I hear the girls are prettier :D

Place to call home

Hawaii or Falklands...
Hawaii or Falklands...
Hawaii or Falklands...
Hawaii or Falklands...
Hawaii or Falklands...

...ok, it's a tough one but I'm going to plump for Hawaii. I hear the girls are prettier :D

Yes you removed the legitimate head of state to get possession of the islands, we of course removed an illegal occupying force to regain what was rightfully ours

Yes you removed the legitimate head of state to get possession of the islands, we of course removed an illegal occupying force to regain what was rightfully ours

So what half of Iraq's oil fields do you want? We have first dibs, we want the west...near our buddies Saudi Arabia. You can take the east with Iran looking over your shoulder...:D

So what half of Iraq's oil fields do you want? We have first dibs, we want the west...near our buddies Saudi Arabia. You can take the east with Iran looking over your shoulder...

That could be seen as a glib comment, however its probably not to far from the thinking of US foreign policy. No doubt Blair has already given his terms as what he gets out of this when he stands down. Being rid of the tosser would be welcome when he stands down, to know he will be at the very least making a fortune touring the US with his lectures though is a little annoying. Hes been lecturing us here for years.

Good to know the leaders of the free world will still be lectured by an idiot we have, finally, massively late, cast off.

Yes you removed the legitimate head of state to get possession of the islands, we of course removed an illegal occupying force to regain what was rightfully ours

Ummm, illegal according to whom?
I sure don't recall a UN resolution giving you permission.....

I'm sure if Russia invaded Alaska tommorrow noone would have to wait for a UN resolution to say that it was illegal.

UN resolutions aren't generally needed to defend your own land, you may need them to invade someone elses though.

Ah, but according to the UN (ok somewhat vaguely) it may or not have been considered UK land in the WORLD's eyes. After all the UK would not come to the table to talk about it, and there were UN resolutions the UK chose to ignore.

Ah, but according to the UN (ok somewhat vaguely) it may or not have been considered UK land in the WORLD's eyes. After all the UK would not come to the table to talk about it, and there were UN resolutions the UK chose to ignore.
That's why our allies backed us:rolleyes:

anyway, there's lots of sheep on the Falklands so we're not letting the Argies have them
Col

to be expected. UK. Where the men are men and the sheep are nervous.

to be expected. UK. Where the men are men and the sheep are nervous.


well...to be truly accurate replace UK with Wales!!!:D

There's GOT to be oil or somthing there.
Why else would anyone get into a fight over the place.

well...to be truly accurate replace UK with Wales!!!:D Don't forget Scotland and the Isle of Man!:D

I'm too young (like Rich ;) ) to remember the Falklands conflict, and admit that I don't know much about it. There was a tv programme on here recently about it, and showed an unbiased view, which taught me a fair amount. However, I do find it strange that the UK hangs onto them - wouldn't it just be easier to let Argentina have them?

According to Wikipedia, "The first settlement on the Falkland Islands, called Port Saint Louis, was founded by the French navigator and military commander Louis Antoine de Bougainville in 1764 on Berkeley Sound, in present-day Port Louis, East Falkland.".

Then, "in 1790, Britain officially ceded control of the islands to Spain, and renounced any and all colonial ambitions in South America, and its adjacent islands, as part of the Nootka Convention.".

And then, "Talks between British and Argentine foreign missions took place in the 1960s, but failed to come to any meaningful conclusion. A major sticking point in all the negotiations was that the two thousand inhabitants of mainly British descent preferred that the islands remained British territory.". So a large group of 'sheep lovers' were left to vote on the matter??? Bizarre.

Lastly to address KalelGmoon's question on page 1, yes, Brits do get taught about other countries in history lessons. I remember a year of lessons regarding Russia in the nineteenth century, as well as twentieth century Germany. Much more interesting than British propaganda in WWI. Unfortunately, we didn't get taught anything about France, which is a pain as I don't know anywhere near enough.

So a large group of 'sheep lovers' were left to vote on the matter??? Bizarre.
Why bizarre that the residents should decide?

There's GOT to be oil or somthing there.
Why else would anyone get into a fight over the place.
Location, Location, Location.

That's why our allies backed us:rolleyes:
I think the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance limited assistance the US could supply, hence at least in public, took a neutral approach.
Basically if two of your friends are fighting, don't take sides.

Basically if two of your friends are fighting, don't take sides.
But if it's your enemies?:confused:
and god knows, according to Bush and Bliar the world's full of them:rolleyes:

But if it's your enemies?:confused:
and god knows, according to Bush and Bliar the world's full of them:rolleyes:
Humm, I think once again you are wrong.
It's tearrits, da world is full a duh tearrits. :p

Why bizarre that the residents should decide?

Sorry, it was a poor attempt at humour - I didn't say residents ;) . I'll get my coat...

Hint for the american contributors.

If you wish to pull the moral highground out from under an englishmen's feet, concerning hostile invasion of another country and/or unjustified acts of agression, including taking of sovereignty.. ..

Read up on New Zealand history in the 1800's, when it was British colony. More particularly, Google the word "Parihaka"

People who live in glass houses ... ... ...

Hint for the american contributors.

If you wish to pull the moral highground out from under an englishmen's feet, concerning hostile invasion of another country and/or unjustified acts of agression, including taking of sovereignty.. ..

Read up on New Zealand history in the 1800's, when it was British colony. More particularly, Google the word "Parihaka"

People who live in glass houses ... ... ...

You really think that America can ever take the moral high ground on taking a country from its indigenous inhabitants?

Brian

Read up on New Zealand history in the 1800's, when it was British colony.
New Zealand is still part of the Commonwealth. Its a far flung part - and we've flung most of them as far as we can;)

Col

New Zealand is still part of the Commonwealth. Its a far flung part - and we've flung most of them as far as we can;)


They also seem to enjoy whooping your ass at your own game (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/6306871.stm) :p

Make that two games (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/6110152.stm)

Ask them how well they do at golf:p

Ask them how well they do at golf:p

You ask 'em...

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/1/11/200px-UMAGA.jpg

Make that two games (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/6110152.stm)


to be fair the kiwis will whoop anyone's ass at rugby. they are pretty much untouchable. even their 2nd team would beat 99% of international sides. i reckon they are so good at it because the spirit of rugby significantly overlaps with the warrior spirit of the maoris.

You really think that America can ever take the moral high ground on taking a country from its indigenous inhabitants?

Brian

Boy, do you lot take a bait.

My point was not the the USA can take the moral high ground more that the UK can't. I don't think anyone can, not even little old NZ, we have done some shody things too.

And by the way I won't stand for anyone complimenting our cricket team. They are terrible, even if they did just CRRRRR-USH england.

Boy, do you lot take a bait.

.

So responding to a post is taking the bait, I always thought it was contributing to the discussion. :confused:

Oh and who is "you lot"

Brian

Oh and who is "you lot"

Brian
Us lot ? :confused:

Us lot ? :confused:

Definitely referring to you ex-imperialists :p

Definitely referring to you ex-imperialists :p
Of course he could have been referring to the current lot, i.e. Yanks:p