Access World has been fairly static for a long time, so we are considering some changes.

1. A new Publishing Suite version of vBulletin (our forum software) will become available in the near future. This allows promotion of good posts to articles, maybe have your own blog and more. This will mean that the rest of the site can grow, rather than it being mainly a forum only site.

2. Adverts down the right hand side of the forum, in its own column. They will always be visible, whether looking at the forum index, a section or a post. As you can imagine, our hosting costs are considerable and changing to vBulletin 4.0 will also require an upgraded host.

Let me know what you think.

1. This is our current references forum, more or less.
2. Meh, adverts, can imagine the costs/gains aspect but I hope you understand us not beeing to overly happy about it :)

I think anything that can improve the site will be good. A few OTHER things you might consider:

1. We need more moderators ASAP. Wazz and DCrake are doing a good job but they are the only ones doing it and we have a HUGE hole in time zone coverage. I posted some suggestions (in the VIP area) as to whom might be good moderators and fit into the missing time zone coverage we have. We need them to be able to respond to the spam that has gotten worse lately.

2. Whatever has been slowing the site down needs to be addressed. It has been more frequent than ever that we can try to come to the site and can't get it, or it runs so slow it takes a long time (minutes) to get to one page. And that causes newbies to post the same thread 3, 4, 5 times because they don't have a response like it should.

3. Perhaps you might want to put into place a donation collection area where interested parties can help out with the funds to run the site. The Developer Barn forum does that and I have helped them out with 5 bucks here and 5 bucks there. So, perhaps setting something like that up would help defray your costs and help you be able to do more improvements.

4. SJ is no longer coming here except when absolutely necessary. We need someone (DCrake is the newest Admin) to have his powers to be able to run the site effectively. So, please do that soon so that we can manage to take care of things now that SJ has basically gone in other directions.


So, thanks for popping in Jon and letting us know this. It is helpful to know you're working at making this an even better site as it is one of the best Access support sites on the web (at least in my mind).

Thanks Bob for your excellent suggestions. We are waiting for the beta version of vBulletin 4.0 publishers suite to come out and might go for it early, without waiting for the most stable release. It is a huge task, since we will have to recreate the entire site structure. But, I think it is the right long term direction for the site.

The benefits are many and I especially like the facility whereby you can promote certain forum posts so they become articles within the main site section. This way, we can cream off some of the best posts and build a really good knowledgebase inside the main site, all categorised.

I am aware of the hosting issues. It is a real pain and we are looking at alternative hosting but with a viable budget. In an ideal world, we could afford the best hosting around, but we try our best. I hope a new host we are looking at will prove more reliable.

One plea.
Please don't do what UA did many years ago and change to a smaller font so that us visually challenged guys have to fiddle with our settings to quick read it. They ignored, ie did not respond to such comments from many users.

Brian

One plea.
Please don't do what UA did many years ago and change to a smaller font so that us visually challenged guys have to fiddle with our settings to quick read it. They ignored, ie did not respond to such comments from many users.

Brian

I'll SECOND that one! I have to run at a lower screen resolution to be able to read things as it is.

And Brian, just as an FYI - You can increase the font size here by just holding your control key down and using your mouse wheel to increase or lower your font size.

And Brian, just as an FYI - You can increase the font size here by just holding your control key down and using your mouse wheel to increase or lower your font size.

Well I'll be damned :eek:, aren't things simple when you know how. :)

Still prefer to have a reasonable font first off tho'

Brian

Just curious, why isn't KenHigg a member of this hand picked AWF hand picked members club along with one or two other long term posters?

One plea.
Please don't do what UA did many years ago and change to a smaller font so that us visually challenged guys have to fiddle with our settings to quick read it. They ignored, ie did not respond to such comments from many users.

Brian


Can't "CTRL+Plus Sign" and "CTRL+Minus Sign" zoom in and out the browser page so that the font will get bigger or smaller in UA pages?

Bob,

I have been on to Jon about my privelages and I am still awaiting a reply. As a SM or Admin I have suggested to him the following:

1. When banning a user as a spammer and they are still on line that the system automatically boots them out.

2. When looking at the banned user list to have the facility to sort by IP as there are certain IP addresses being used on a pool and by banning the IP it would cut down on the spammers.

I agree that we need more SM's I have people in mind, and ones that have been recommended, however until I get the rights to be able to promote a user my hands are tied.

David

...Let me know what you think.

1. Sounds interesting, as far as I am able to understand what you're saying.

2. No objection - I have sidebar ads on my own site (although they always come below content, and are kept separate), and I recognise the importance of ad revenue to webmasters. I hope the ads will be sensibly filtered so as to minimise:

Flashing or distracting animated images
Pop-over flash banners that obscure content until dismissed
Ads containing misleading links purporting to relate to the thread topic

Worst case: anyone can just block the ads if they despise them.


I really hope the new version will permit you to implement some kind of rule-based or bayesian spam filtering - most of the spam we see here could quite easily be trapped by filtering, if the function was there.

I really hope the new version will permit you to implement some kind of rule-based or bayesian spam filtering - most of the spam we see here could quite easily be trapped by filtering, if the function was there.

FWIW, the other vBulletin forum I frequent already has effective spam filtering and they're still on older version. I *think* it's either something that needs to be configured or a separate add-on, rather than needing the newest & latest version.

1. When banning a user as a spammer and they are still on line that the system automatically boots them out.
Doesn't matter really. If you ban them, they immediately cannot post and they are actually booted if they refresh their page or try to do any other activity which someone must be logged in to do. Once you ban them they become as if they have not logged in. It is just that they still show in the logged in list until they close their browser, which to me isn't really a big deal because they can't do anything anyway.

2. When looking at the banned user list to have the facility to sort by IP as there are certain IP addresses being used on a pool and by banning the IP it would cut down on the spammers.

I believe you would have this ability if you had the same security rights as SJ.

I agree that we need more SM's I have people in mind, and ones that have been recommended, however until I get the rights to be able to promote a user my hands are tied.

I know and that's why I did mention it here so that hopefully Jon would take note and do what is necessary to give you that ability.

I've tweaked a setting for DCrake and PM'ed him. Just waiting for a reply.

I've tweaked a setting for DCrake and PM'ed him. Just waiting for a reply.

Thanks Jon! Great to see you respond so quickly. We've missed you, you know :D

All good suggestions and points Jon. Just my $0.02.

Haha, thanks Bob!

Just curious, why isn't KenHigg a member of this hand picked AWF hand picked members club along with one or two other long term posters?Ken is a member of AWF VIP if that's what you mean.

Ken is a member of AWF VIP if that's what you mean.

Yep, he was one of the original list (if one were to go back to the thread (http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=154809) that shows the list of VIP members)

When I notice spam and no one else has reported it I will click on the report button and notify admins of the spam. Then I post a reply to the thread that I have reported it so you di not get inundated. A couple of times I have noticed that the spam post is removed but the 'whistle blower's post is not. If the spam is not the initial post it then loooks like the whistle blower is reporting a genuine post as spam.
So just thought as there is admin focus to this thread I would mention this so that perhaps both should be removed by an admin so then no one gets the wrong idea.

Let me know what you think.

Change? Hooray! Bring it on! Make it better. Thank you, thank you, thank you :D

Ch-ch-ch-changes! Thanks for popping in Jon!

Jon:

Just in case you don't get the notification from the PM's, check your PM's as I have sent you one.

Changes sound reasonable. FWIW, everytime I search for an Access or VBA-related solution, the internet search inevitably leads me here.

How about some AWF clothes?

I could see T-shirts like:

<insert funny and non-trolling statement here>

and so forth. Guaranteed to raise revenue.

Changes sound reasonable. FWIW, everytime I search for an Access or VBA-related solution, the internet search inevitably leads me here.



I have also had that happen a lot. I often wonder if the people on line listed as Guest on older threads have got there via Google.

I could see T-shirts like:

"I'm the one American Colin likes!"

and so forth. Guaranteed to raise revenue.

And posts like this add nothing constructive to this thread. Can we please keep the thread on topic? The Watercooler has more than it's share of bickering threads for you to troll on.

And posts like this add nothing constructive to this thread. Can we please keep the thread on topic? The Watercooler has more than it's share of bickering threads for you to troll on.

I suppose intent does not translate well through text. Light-hearted attempt at humor, but apparently by your post I missed my mark by quite a bit. I'll edit the post, oh Super Moderator.

I suppose intent does not translate well through text. Light-hearted attempt at humor, but apparently by your post I missed my mark by quite a bit. I'll edit the post, oh Super Moderator.

Just trying to keep the purpose of the thread on track.

I suppose intent does not translate well through text. Light-hearted attempt at humor, but apparently by your post I missed my mark by quite a bit. I'll edit the post, oh Super Moderator.
Humour's not allowed on the forum anymore:rolleyes:

Should or could people use the Report Thread button to report trolls - that might get rid of a lot of the senseless bickering posts and trolls. Then again it might mean you would need to increase the number of moderators and admins.

And posts like this add nothing constructive to this thread. Can we please keep the thread on topic? The Watercooler has more than it's share of bickering threads for you to troll on.

Should or could people use the Report Thread button to report trolls - that might get rid of a lot of the senseless bickering posts and trolls. Then again it might mean you would need to increase the number of moderators and admins.
Aren't you trolling at the minute?:rolleyes:

Humour's not allowed on the forum anymore:rolleyes:
IMHO It is allowed provided it's funny. Some so-called humour recently has been pretty lacking in wit.

Some so-called humour recently has been pretty lacking in wit.
And of course some nationalities are renowned for lacking it:D

And of course some nationalities are renowned for lacking it:D

I'm surprised you would refer to yourself like that. ;)

The changes to the site might be interesting. It's hard to say without seeing it, but if it might grow the site past being just a forum site maybe it would be worth it. Not thrilled about ads, but I understand the cost issues so that's no big deal really.

More mods/admins would be good too. I would volunteer my time for the purpose of clearing spam off the boards, but I've been a bit covered up at work lately. And at home, for that matter.

With the spam postings.......why not give the AWF VIP members moderating rights and they can delete them. From memory it is usually one of the AWF VIP members who post on the spam thread but they can only report. If they can delete them then the spam issue is finished.

Should or could people use the Report Thread button to report trolls - that might get rid of a lot of the senseless bickering posts and trolls. Then again it might mean you would need to increase the number of moderators and admins.

I think first defining what the site admin's consider trolling would be a good idea. One person's joke is another person's flame, apparently.

Most sites I go to the moderators/admin would never call a poster a troll, that would be very unprofessional and rude. They'd simply send a private message to the poster and say something to the affect of "This post you made <link here> could be considered trolling" or some other sort of warning/reminder.

I don't think I have ever seen a mod/admin publicly label a person a troll.

What is the point of the 9 sticky posts in the general forum? They have a total of over 280 posts between them.

Who in their right mind is going to read all that before posting, just in case it happens to apply to them.

If a new poster is going to post a problem, they just post it. You can tell the fact they never read the stickies by reading their posts.

Total waste of time.

Col

What is the point of the 9 sticky posts in the general forum? They have a total of over 280 posts between them.

Who in their right mind is going to read all that before posting, just in case it happens to apply to them.

If a new poster is going to post a problem, they just post it. You can tell the fact they never read the stickies by reading their posts.

Total waste of time.

Col

stickeys are not locked. that's the fricken problem. stick it and lock it, otherwise 50 2 cents worths are thrown in everytime

stickeys are not locked. that's the fricken problem. stick it and lock it, otherwise 50 2 cents worths are thrown in everytime
Colin is correct! It is quite obvious that new posters do not read the stickies before posting even if there are no extra bits in the stickies.

Colin is correct! It is quite obvious that new posters do not read the stickies before posting even if there are no extra bits in the stickies.

There's an example in the new posts now - "Help please!" now that's a really helpful title:rolleyes:

Col

There's an example in the new posts now - "Help please!" now that's a really helpful title:rolleyes:

Col

perhaps a section to force new readers to read these stickies would help instead of putting them in a forum where a lot of people never ask their questions anyway?

perhaps a section to force new readers to read these stickies would help instead of putting them in a forum where a lot of people never ask their questions anyway?
You may be able to force new users to open the stickies but you certainly can't force them to read them or to apply the contents to their own posts. :mad:

I'm surprised you would refer to yourself like that. ;)

No, I've always been able to maintain a sense of humour, tact and diplomacy on the forum:p

The large google ad at the header of the forums is just a tad too intrusive I'd say.

Do you only see the advert when you haven't logged in?

Ahh yes. It disappears when logged in.

Is that not so bad then?

I dont even know it excists :) I always autologin :)

It's fine for me personally as logging in is no hassle.

I'm not sure if new visitors to the site will be put off by it though.

Well, I find that 70&#37; of people who come to this site are new visitors. This suggests that most people never come back. If we can generate some revenue from them, it can only help the coffers of Access World and so therefore the future potential of this site.

I do have concerns about it being off-putting for new visitors, but its only the start. We are going to be having more adverts, some of which existing members will also see. However, the newer ads will not be as intrusive as those in-your-face ones that guests see.

Note that to the right of the advert is a Registration notice that will hopefully encourage more people to become a member here. Its much more prominent and who knows, it might help membership numbers.

I can't see any adverts at all here at the minute and since most of the sites I visit bombard the viewer with adverts I can't see how there'll be a problem

Rich, you can't see the ads because you are logged in. If you log out, you should see them.

Having logged out I still can't see what the fuss is about, compared with some sites I didn't find them obtrusive at all:)

Having logged out I still can't see what the fuss is about, compared with some sites I didn't find them obtrusive at all:)

I only said it was a tad too intrusive. :p

I'm sure my eye will get used to it.

I'm pleased to hear that Rich.

I only said it was a tad too intrusive. :p

I'm sure my eye will get used to it.
If I read my local paper on line or one from the US or even Oz, the page takes forever to load and then it's a question of fighting through the ads to get to the part you wanted in the first place. I went on EBay today to look for a car for my daughter, there were more bloody adverts per page than there were entries for cars. We don't get something for nothing these days and I really think Jons got the balance right;)
I know the grammer doesn't sound correct but I can take the flack:p

The HUGE banner is definately not annoying in my opinion - not like framed ads or pop ups or pop overs or pop unders or mask ads like some sides use that are constantly in your face.
Just perhaps the right half with the invite to join the forum should some how mention that in the wording so it does not appear to be also another part of the google ads banner.

That is a good point Fifty2One, well spotted!

I don't like the fact that if you click on a google ad (like when you are looking at the NEW THREADS of the forum) it doesn't open a new browser window but instead takes me off of the AWF page I'm looking at.

Jon - You may want to check to make sure your banners always open a new window.

Bob, it is against Googles terms of service to open up a new window.

Bob, it is against Googles terms of service to open up a new window.

Really? Many many websites do google ads this way. That is strange.

Can you show me just one site that does this with Google ads?

Bob, it is against Googles terms of service to open up a new window.

That's strange because it does on other pages. And I think that's a bunch of bs anyway because then you start sending your users to another site with the links and they are no longer on your own site. All of the google links I've seen on other websites open in another window. But I guess if you have to do that then users, like me, will get used to not clicking on the ads. When I click on an ad in almost any other circumstance, I expect it to not take me there in my current window or tab, but to open a new window or tab so that I can remain on my primary site.

Can you post the exact wording from their agreement which states this? I can't find it in their terms and conditions for Adwords or Adsense anywhere.

https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=9737

There is your answer.

https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=9737

There is your answer.

Sounds to me like you should formally ask them for permission based on the fact that this is "expected internet behavior and provides a more consistent, intuitive user experience."

What's the worst that could happen? They could say no. But, they COULD say "Yes." :D

Google have a policy and they don't budge an inch. I've had many dealings with them over the years. They have TOC and that's it.

Are you aware that they are banning people from adsense left, right and centre?

Google have a policy and they don't budge an inch. I've had many dealings with them over the years. They have TOC and that's it.
Well, the terms and conditions do not explicitly ban a new window. I can say I searched that left and right, up and down and it doesn't say that. The link you posted is to a FAQ and it says that they GENERALLY DISCOURAGE this. That is different from explicitly stating you can't do it.

Are you aware that they are banning people from adsense left, right and centre?
Nope because I don't use them. But as I said, perhaps that isn't the solution. The Developer Barn is using donations through PayPal to gather the funds to keep things open and perhaps something of that nature would be successful here if it were used. But that is just a suggestion.

Its against the TOS for me to modify the ads. Only Google will decide if they will allow adsense to open a new window. I've never seen an example of this. However, they state China is one market and that it is to do with the IP address and so therefore the region you are in.

I have a plan for raising revenue. There is an affiliate program I will be promoting and by growing the articles section of this site, I hope to raise additional revenue. Earnings from forums are notoriously low since the click through rate is tiny.

Currently waiting for the vbulletin CMS system to mature a little. It is still in beta. Big site changes when that is nearly ready. Hopefully then I can create a dynamic chart showing the top 10 posters and their posts count. Might act as a fun kind of competition!

Well, it was only a suggestion.

I don't know what you pay for things and who you're hosted with and all. I do know that my site (http://www.btabdevelopment.com) is hosted for US $14.99 per month and it includes unlimited storage and unlimited bandwidth.

I welcome all suggestions Bob.

The costs for hosting are considerable because they have to be on a server that can cope with 400 guests at any one time. Sometimes our current host has struggled but it seems to have got its act together recently.

I haven't asked them to see if they could handle it but my host is Godaddy. I, myself, have never had a problem with them and I've been with them now since about 2003 or 2004. But, as I said, I don't know if they can handle that many concurrent connections. I would think they would because they are a fairly large provider.

Anyway, just thought I should pass along the info, just in case it helps.

We use a semi-dedicated server, of which you can get many different grades. I also have some sites hosted with Godaddy, but not this one.

How are you finding the speed of it lately? Has it got a little better?

How are you finding the speed of it lately? Has it got a little better?
The speed of the current AWF site? If so, it seems to be better than it has been, at least from my perspective.

Yes, thought so. They must have upgraded the server. It was really poor for a while and I was getting hundreds of error messages per day, clogging up my email.

Bob, I know this is slightly off-topic for the thread, but what makes you spend such a lot of time on this forum?

Bob, I know this is slightly off-topic for the thread, but what makes you spend such a lot of time on this forum?
I'm an Access forum addict. Seriously. I love answering questions and so that is what I do. I also spend time at Utter Access and Mr. Excel, just to name a few. If I could get paid just to answer questions on forums, that is what I would do. I don't have many other hobbies or things I'm interested in and so I do this. I guess I'm not a normal person, as normal people actually do other things.

Seriously. I love answering questions . . . .

Sadly, I will be banned if I dare make a comment.

I don't have many other hobbies or things I'm interested in and so I do this. I guess I'm not a normal person, as normal people actually do other things.

I would love to comment on this statement too, but some people (I've been told) are not to be upset.

Col

I welcome all suggestions Bob.

The costs for hosting are considerable because they have to be on a server that can cope with 400 guests at any one time. Sometimes our current host has struggled but it seems to have got its act together recently.

Yeah, I just looked and the plan I'm using wouldn't be sufficient for this site. It only allows for 200Mb databases.

Picking up on the discussion in Adam's "How to speak to a programmer" thread, it occurs to me that there is no option here to leave the forum. It may be useful to have an "unsubscribe" option for numpties who have created more than one user name. I ran into a similar problem on face book when I forgot my login details and created a new user for myself. Fortunately, when I did remember the original I was able to delete one of the users.

Well that's odd, when viewing the forum via Virgin none of the adds on the pages show, just red oblongs

It may be useful to have an "unsubscribe" option for numpties who have created more than one user name.

Most people don't know that an Admin can MERGE the two accounts into one if they desire.

I personally wouldn't mind if it was free for the first year and then maybe £5 a year after that.

I like the fact we don't have advertising at the moment but understand the need for revenue.

We do have advertising...

We do have advertising...
Yeah but a lot of it is now blocked because their security certificates have expired;)

Rich, what do you mean by that? How long have the adverts been blocked? Which advert locations?

Rich, what do you mean by that? How long have the adverts been blocked? Which advert locations?

Well, I know that I get this when I first log in to the site:

http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31298&stc=1&d=1268675212

http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31299&stc=1&d=1268675212

Thanks for that. Looks like it must be something to do with the LivePerson code. Will have to fix that.

Since we are on a new super-duper host, the next step is to upgrade to vBulletin 4.0 and their CMS system. Any thoughts on this?

Go for it.

Also, I noticed that they have a Wiki over at UA now. Any chance the new software has a user managed Wiki?

vBulletin CMS system allows promotion of posts to articles and it is quite possible for users here to write articles for the main site. Do you think people here would be willing to do that? The idea is to create a knowledge base for Microsoft Access programmers or users.

I'm not sure what people will do but I'd say based on UA's response and based on our own samples and demo sections that it would go over well. I am in the process of writing some wikis for the UA site and was going to cross post them here.

I've been reading a lot of stuff about vBulletin 4.0 and their CMS suite and I am in two minds over making the switch. A lot of people don't like the look and feel of the new version and people are bitching about the CMS suite big time. So what do I do?

I would like to turn the whole site into something a bit more special, rather than it just being a forum based site.

Reasonable from your perspective. All I can tell you is why I like this site over others.

The look and feel of the site (mostly because of vBulletin) is especially neat and easy to read and administer, as a user. Though UA has improved considerably since their upgrade, it is still easier to read and use this site. I like the layout of threads with the borders around each post, and the tools for posting. I also like the layout of the Today's Posts view, which makes it incredibly easy to tell which posts you've already read or decided not to bother with.

Even after their upgrade, UA "seems" cluttered to me. This site always "seems" fresh and clean. I'm not even sure how to describe this without sitting down with somebody with both sites up on the screen.

I have used one non-Access site that has the new vBulletin and I find it very difficult to respond to a post. That may be because of the way that site is set up. Everything else on that site looks and behaves about the same as this site, though...very clean and easy to follow.

Also as a question, as long as we are taling about improvements, is there a way to be able to change a post to resolved or not? I have heard some people say you can edit the subject line, but have not been able to on my own threads.

Reasonable from your perspective. All I can tell you is why I like this site over others.

The look and feel of the site (mostly because of vBulletin) is especially neat and easy to read and administer, as a user. Though UA has improved considerably since their upgrade, it is still easier to read and use this site. I like the layout of threads with the borders around each post, and the tools for posting. I also like the layout of the Today's Posts view, which makes it incredibly easy to tell which posts you've already read or decided not to bother with.

Even after their upgrade, UA "seems" cluttered to me. This site always "seems" fresh and clean. I'm not even sure how to describe this without sitting down with somebody with both sites up on the screen.

I have used one non-Access site that has the new vBulletin and I find it very difficult to respond to a post. That may be because of the way that site is set up. Everything else on that site looks and behaves about the same as this site, though...very clean and easy to follow.
Absoultely agree. Good use of colours and sectioned properly. The reason why I hardly go on UA.

Interesting feedback. Any other things you like about this forum or don't like? What do you prefer on UA verses here?

About the only thing I like about UA better than here is that they have more emoticons to choose from, including one for welcoming new users to the site and a few other custom ones. But where we have about 12 they have about 40.

About the only thing I like about UA better than here is that they have more emoticons to choose from, including one for welcoming new users to the site and a few other custom ones. But where we have about 12 they have about 40.
SOS does like his emoticons :)

SOS does like his emoticons :)

Yes, I do...it helps me convey things past the bland text. :cool:

The new feature of UA is the Wiki. It is very appealing in concept, though I still come here instead of there.

Here is an example of a home page and forum using vBulletin 4.0. What are your thoughts?

http://www.dnforum.com/content.php

http://www.dnforum.com/forum.php

Meh, content not visuals is what keeps people using sites.

Looks pretty sharp. Hope the functionality is the same.

My concern is doing the switch over and people not liking the new version. Decisions decisions!

Run both in parallel. Prompt the user if they want to try out the new version and at the end of each session prompt for some feedback if they chose the new version.

You can't run both in parallel and its a one way decision - no going back.

Catch-22 then Jon.

Dump lots of screenshots on a thread and create a poll. Highest wins.

Downside is the poll wouldn't be based on feel, only on looks.

Good idea. Thanks for that!

No worries.

Do you really think that a cosmetic makeover to the site is going to make a real difference to visitor numbers?

The biggest asset this site has is the info contained within forum posts. That is why people come here. Why not come up with some ideas on how to do more with this.

I've seen on other forums that when the OP goes to post his question it first comes back with a list of related threads based on his problem description which can stop people posting the same question so much.

Another way to make the site look better and be more readable is to start insisting on code tags and proper post titles. As far as I can see nothing is done about this at the moment. A common approach on other sites is to lock threads until these have been done and they continue to attract large numbers of visitors, ozgrid and excelforum are two that spring to mind though ozgrid is too extreme imo.

I think I should put a News section at the top of the forum. It seems common practice on many sites. Might also have an Introduce yourself section below this.

Jon, it would be good to get the forum Mods to test the proposed forum. Can you not broker a deal with the provider to get a few days trial/test run?

I've already bought the software. But there are many issues regarding its use: different look and feel, tends to be a bit slower, the CMS system has limited functionality and many people don't think its ready for release.

Many! I would hesitate on rolling it out if the general concensus is not in favour of the new release.

Limited functionality means angrier "customers". Maybe wait for the next release.

Its a difficult decisions because I am chomping at the bit to get a nice website built out, where posts can be promoted to articles and so forth. However, its a big change and non-reversible. I want to get it right. I've considered using Wordpress for the main sites CMS but you don't get the same level of integration.

By the way, did you look at the two links in this thread that shows a site using vBulletin 4.0?

"Get it right with the right functionality", that would be my motto in this case. Functionality would always supercede interface (in a forum such as this), but it wouldn't supercede useability. Like you said, it's an irreversible "promotion" so to speak. If the current forum has more functionality than the new, then I would hang on to the old. It does its job, the majority of users haven't complained about the layout but are talking more about functionality. The new forum seems to focus more on looks.

The current forum is good enough, in my opinion.

Just a note - UA recently underwent a major change in the way it looks and works and they did lose some people because of it. But they also gained some. So, I think you can't worry too much about that as no matter what you do, or don't do, not everybody will be happy. So, you need to move in a direction that you think is going to be good to build on and then just let the chips fall where they may.

I prefer the look of the current forum. But I can't use the current forum with the new vBulletin CMS. You have to upgrade to vBulletin 4.0 for that. Grrr!

You better put on your Web Designer's hat then Jon and make it compatible ;)

Any other alternatives?

SOS has a good point.

Well, my recent original goal was to have the forums as discussion and then have very important posts promoted to articles in the main site. Almost like creaming the top posts off and putting them in a place for easy access and browsing. Also, to improve the position of the site in the search engines, I wanted to have updates of last posts etc on the home page. User comments to articles too. The whole schebang. i.e. it becomes very Web 2.0.

I get put off by some sites due to the look and feel of them. For example, I can't stand phpbb bulletin boards. I find them ugly, no matter what skin they try to hide them under. I love IP Board and vBulletin. Maybe it is because I am so used to the look and feel of this board, but I find the version 4.0 a backward step! It may have more functionality but for me the visual appeal is greater.

I might also do a range of paid memberships where you can have more features and greater allowances: Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum etc!

Expert Exchange have that sort of system going. I don't know their success rate but they seem to be doing well.

How would that benefit the Mods or selected "helpers"?

I know I've seen some vBulletin sites (v3.8) that look a lot sharper than this one but have the same functionality. This particular skin feels a bit "dated" but it does get the job done.

A few examples:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/

http://www.xtremevbtalk.com/

http://forums.freebsd.org/

I like the resolved answer suggestion. It would definitely help future people while searching. It would also let the rest of us know if someone's question has been answered so we can avoid their thread to help others. Maybe also if there was an option to select which post resolved the issue, like an accepted answer option.

Exactly what Experts Exchange does.

The resolved answer suggestion is quite old and there are two camps of thought on the matter.

The plus side is obvious so it doesn’t need repeating.

The negative side is that simply because a problem has been fixed doesn’t mean that it has been resolved.
There are many times when there is more than one fix but not all fixes have equal merit.

So the resolved flag may tend to block others from coming up with a better resolution.
This can also be used by people who would prefer for others to think they solved the problem.
There are sites where it is encouraged that the OP marks the thread as resolved but the OP doesn’t know it’s resolved, they only know they have a fix.

And yes I do know that a thread marked as resolved does not prevent further replies but it can be used that way.

Maybe a Preferred Solution flag marked by the OP? The flag could also be changed if someone else were to come up with a better solution. However, I can foresee problems with this :)

Jon

Just wanted to congratulate you on getting to this position and thank you for hosting a site I have obtained a lot of useful information from.

I think it is unfortunate in many instances that the work involved in hosting these sites is sometimes difficult to obtain financial reward from. I have some experience of this as I am involved in the hosting of a windsurfing forum which is the biggest in Scotland (although tiny compared to this).

My experience of that duty is that we have largely done everything on minimal cost. Ie hosted on a server owned by a web administrator who has paying customers.

I do wonder how such low cost operations can be sustainable. I myself have a paid job but have more recently been roped in to create databases for a couple of friends largely this has involved a great deal of work for very little money.

My rewards tend to come in terms of satisfaction - we have arguably the biggest windsurfing forum in Scotland and I am reasonably well know within the windsurfing community. This definitely opens up doors. Likewise I get a kick from seeing and knowing my databases are being used by others. I also seem to be well respected by colleagues inside and outside of my day to day job for being able to get tricky jobs done.

There still seems to be a widescale ignorance of the importance of database design and the shear breadth of its potential application. . I think this is largely because databases already tend to be highly highly bespoke. Its difficult just to transfer the technology from one computer to the next let alone teach each subsequent user to use a database. This is why forums like this are so important. Forums like this are helping to explain the importance of databases and hence increase the marketability of people with database skills. I still think there is a long way to go. I've been thinking about this quite a lot recently. How can things like push bikes have such a high value and software such low values when a similar amount of effort could have been involved in the construction of each. I've come down to the idea that everyone knows what a push bike is and how it works and it is has an extremely long shelf life. Once constructed it will remain largely for the duration of the individual working as well on the first day as the last with little or no maintenance. Compare this with motor cars which deteriorate and are likely to need replacement within 6 or 7 years - they also tend to be that bit more complicated and as such an individual is unlikely to be able to maintain it by themselves. I went past my local Triathlon shop the other day and there is a race spec Trek in the window for £5,800 I then went past the local motorbike shop within which I could buy a good bike for £5,800 which has a significant greater amount of engineering design and science in its construction.

I now see learning about databases as part of my continual professional development ( a very important part ) rather than an end in itself.

I'm not going to make any suggestions per se mainly because I'm not fully up to speed with what is and is not possible and as ever it is always easy to make suggestions but that much harder to implement them. I would say stick to your guns though and I would prefer to see a well implemented change rather than a rushed one. Some things I am for and against (ok that's a bit like a suggestion but you'll be interested in the first one!)

Some things I am in favour
Some sort of remuneration direct from users for yourself (although the devil IS in the level)

Some things I wouldn't want to see
Over moderation (not a problem to date)
Enforcing of payment for newbies (I fear they will never join)

Lightwave, thank you for your detailed response. I agree with just about everything you have said.

There will always be a free option when using these boards. It fits in with my philosophy of free information for all. My thoughts on paid memberships may run along the lines of access to some closed areas, depending on the level of the membership.

For example, if someone chose the top membership, they would get access to VIP fast response areas whereby helpers on the forum would be encouraged to help those who have donated to the forum via membership. They would have a badge showing their level of membership and consequently users here would be encouraged to help them either in more detail or faster.

The more paying members I can get, the more it helps us fund these forums and potential improvements. These are just my initial thoughts and feel free to chip in!

Also, maybe members get access to cheat sheets, greater upload privaledges etc.

I understand the need to make money to pay for the costs to host the forum but I have to admit I would be forced to go elsewhere if I had to pay to use the functions of this forum that I am using now for free. Your site appears to be unique where you offer paid services [unrelated to the forum] if I understand correctly. This forum has been very helpful to me over the years since I joined the forum back in 2002. I enjoy helping our forum members and I feel more comfortable on this forum compared to some of the other popular Access forums which would explain why I post more answers than questions by a very large margin in this forum. I definitely appreciate you changing hosts to fix the response problems for the slowness of the forum forced me to go elsewhere whenever I had a need or felt like posting some answers to other Access users in need.

I agree with ghudson.

Best thing about forums, is that they are free.

Are you saying you will offer a pay membership for some people who want it (to have direct access to VIPs) and keep the rest free?

I am saying that you will have use of the forums pretty much as they are for free. Paying members would getting additional benefits. Make sense? I am not trying to take away what you currently get, at least those are my current thoughts.

If you pay, you get added value. Another area of added value might be allowing you to put a larger avatar on your profile and things like that.

Don't worry, you can still do most things here for free!

Couple of points

1) Might want to make it free for VIPs AWFs - cos they answer more than they ask.

2) Have you ever written to Microsoft?
I think there marketing guy might want to make a donation.

Lets face it there budget must be substantial and I can't think of a better advert for their program

I am saying that you will have use of the forums pretty much as they are for free. Paying members would getting additional benefits. Make sense? I am not trying to take away what you currently get, at least those are my current thoughts.

If you pay, you get added value. Another area of added value might be allowing you to put a larger avatar on your profile and things like that.

Don't worry, you can still do most things here for free!

It's an intriguing subject.

Up until now the model has been a free service to the public and revenue obtained through advertising.

Perhaps wait and see what the reaction will be to News Corp's break from this? Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/business/media/27paper.html)

Well done on the hosting fix. That was an issue that could have finished this site off.

As far as I can see the only reason to pay for a membership would be premium support being offered.

But as all the support comes from unpaid volunteers why would I pay for this premium support when I will have no guarantee of any level of service?

No one is going to pay so they can have a larger avatar, if there was money to be made from this a lot more sites doing it already.

As I've said before the value in the site is the content, i.e. all the code you have. Why not try doing something with that.

No one is going to pay so they can have a larger avatar, if there was money to be made from this a lot more sites doing it already.



Yes, I feel it is the traffic that is the commodity here, not the individual users themselves.

I like Lightwave's idea of approaching larger companies with a budget for some kind of sponsorship deal.

Also how about selling ad space to smaller companies/freelancers?

Perhaps a seperate board for companies/freelancers to publish their services/profile for a subscription cost? This could be quite lucrative for the smaller business if they received positive feedback on the boards.

You'd have to make your traffic stats known in some way for this to be enticing.

EDIT: A charge to link to said profile in your post footer?

The forum must remain free for the whole people who want to register.
I will not admit any attend to charge this forum. The Admin is a friend of mine and he has told me that he will not allow this forum to became an aristocratic one.
Everybody have the right to access the information, not only the rich people who can affort a fee forum.

I will fight for a free forum for the whole communitty of programmers.

[QUOTE=Jon;949436]. Another area of added value might be allowing you to put a larger avatar on your profile and things like that.
QUOTE]

The cluttered feel of UA has allready been mentioned, that and its poor presentation is why I rarely visit, I feel that its large avatars are also part of the problem, small posts are lost in the general cr. er! presentation.

Brian

The forum must remain free for the whole people who want to register.
I will not admit any attend to charge this forum. The Admin is a friend of mine and he has told me that he will not allow this forum to became an aristocratic one.
Everybody have the right to access the information, not only the rich people who can affort a fee forum.

I will fight for a free forum for the whole communitty of programmers.

Guess you must be a socialist as you don't care if somebody is losing money as long as you get something for nothing.

Brian

[quote=Jon;949436]. Another area of added value might be allowing you to put a larger avatar on your profile and things like that.
QUOTE]

The cluttered feel of UA has allready been mentioned, that and its poor presentation is why I rarely visit, I feel that its large avatars are also part of the problem, small posts are lost in the general cr. er! presentation.

Brian

Brian:

Have you been to UA in the last two weeks? If not, you should take a look as it has changed drastically.

Guess you must be a socialist as you don't care if somebody is losing money as long as you get something for nothing.


They're called freetards these days

[quote=Brianwarnock;949520]

Brian:

Have you been to UA in the last two weeks? If not, you should take a look as it has changed drastically.

OK I'll visit sometime, thanks for the update.

Brian

Guess you must be a socialist as you don't care if somebody is losing money as long as you get something for nothing.

Brian

Who is lossing money?
Here we share our knowledge for free. If you want the people to pay for your advice, you should not participate in this free forum. From what you say, I think you are using this forum as a way to get customers. Bad done.

I see four ads per page. With the traffic on this site, the ad revenue should pay for the upkeep. The advice is provided gratis, so the forum should be as well.

Who is lossing money?
Here we share our knowledge for free. If you want the people to pay for your advice, you should not participate in this free forum. From what you say, I think you are using this forum as a way to get customers. Bad done.

It wouldn't have taken much effort to see that I am retired. In the many years I have been giving free advice on here I can't say that I have ever noticed your input.

Brian

Who is lossing money?
Here we share our knowledge for free. If you want the people to pay for your advice, you should not participate in this free forum. From what you say, I think you are using this forum as a way to get customers. Bad done.
Well done MAgno:cool: Taken you over 3 month to reply to Brian. Shows how much you dont contribute to this forum

It wouldn't have taken much effort to see that I am retired.
Brian
He would have to have read your description wouldnt he?

Well done MAgno:cool: Taken you over 3 month to reply to Brian. Shows how much you dont contribute to this forum

It's all "spiritual" contributions. :D :D :D

He would have to have read your description wouldnt he?

Its by my avatar on everypost.

Brian

Its by my avatar on everypost.

Brian


He probably thought that meant you were tired again.

Guess you must be a socialist as you don't care if somebody is losing money as long as you get something for nothing.

Brian

As a capatalist - why should I care if someone else is losing money, as long as I get a good deal?

If the good deal is worth paying for fair enough. I think he mererly said to him, it wasn't. Maybe not actually.

Anyway -

Capatalism should at least have freedom of choice shouldn;t it, without being labelled a freetard or socialist if you prefer not to be a customer.

I think you were a little harsh, whichever way, but I thought it a more free market reality , than cooperative motive.



Its all a good bit of market reseasrch anyway - lets not all pretend we'd pay - only to see the site struggle when many dont.

The best things in life are free!

I wont be here when its payable - so theres a plus for it!

As a capatalist - why should I care if someone else is losing money, as long as I get a good deal?

If the good deal is worth paying for fair enough. I think he mererly said to him, it wasn't. Maybe not actually.

Anyway -

Capatalism should at least have freedom of choice shouldn;t it, without being labelled a freetard or socialist if you prefer not to be a customer.

I think you were a little harsh, whichever way, but I thought it a more free market reality , than cooperative motive.



Its all a good bit of market reseasrch anyway - lets not all pretend we'd pay - only to see the site struggle when many dont.

The best things in life are free!

Too bad you don't have a free dictionary so you can learn to spell capitalist and capitalism. :D

Too bad you don't have a free dictionary so you can learn to spell capitalist and capitalism. :D

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/capitalist

Free!

Ta

Hi Jon (and everyone else),

I realize, being quite a newbie here, that I don't know much about how things have "always been" or "always looked", but I have some questions/suggestions I think might be worth a look.

First, the Google Ads on the Products, Services, and Learning tabs seem a bit odd to me. What I mean by this is that the Ads themselves are visually larger than your content.

Why have the Ads larger than your content and above the content? Ads should be a great way to earn some income to help diffuse the costs of hosting, however they should never (in my opinion) diminish your content.

Second, on the Home tab, perhaps adding a bit more column padding between the center Content column and the left/right Ad columns would be a bit more appealing. Currently the three columns visually kind of "merge" together.

Finally, I know that asking people to donate money is not the most profitable way to add income, and requiring it might turn people away who only visit for "free information". What about a middle of the road option for now, until a decision is made about moving to a new version and implementing which ever revenue generating option you'd like to take?
My suggestion for this "middle of the road" is to add a PayPal donate box and if people donate, they donate. If they don't, they don't.

I think those who want to, like boblarson (I believe he's the one who mentioned way back in the posts he donates a few bucks here and there), will donate, and would like the option to give back to a forum like this.

I found this forum because my job required me to create an Access DB, and I had to Google some issues I was having and voila. Now, I find myself checking here even when I don't have an immediate question.

I feel like there are those who will stick around, and those who wont, and it wont matter what decision you make, except NO DECISION if you expect everything to stay as it is.

Just my thoughts as someone new here.

Love the site; learning a lot! (Hopefully one day I can help others as I've been helped.)

:)

*Another thing*

I just finished reading through a lot of the posts for newbies such as how to get a response to your question and how to speak to a programmer.

I think the stickies are good, however a lot of the discussion was as if a train derailed! Perhaps locking the posts when they are general advice and having discussion in a different thread?

Thanks Bob for your excellent suggestions. We are waiting for the beta version of vBulletin 4.0 publishers suite to come out and might go for it early, without waiting for the most stable release. It is a huge task, since we will have to recreate the entire site structure. But, I think it is the right long term direction for the site.

The benefits are many and I especially like the facility whereby you can promote certain forum posts so they become articles within the main site section. This way, we can cream off some of the best posts and build a really good knowledgebase inside the main site, all categorised.

I am aware of the hosting issues. It is a real pain and we are looking at alternative hosting but with a viable budget. In an ideal world, we could afford the best hosting around, but we try our best. I hope a new host we are looking at will prove more reliable.
Please don't do what UA did many years ago and change to a smaller font so that us visually challenged guys have to fiddle with our settings to quick read it. They ignored, ie did not respond to such comments from many users.

thank for all man! :D