Well what do you know, some fat cat Lord with more money than sense and probably a vested interest in Banking has ruled that Excessive Bank Charges are not illegal and gone as far to say that Banks can pretty much charge what they want....

What a Bloody Farce... :mad:

Despite the fact that the Bank had been to court twice before and been told that their charges were illegal and unfair and were explicitly told that they could not appeal, decided to take their case to the Fat Cat House Of Lords who decided that they could appeal and what d'you know a Fat Cat Lord rules in their favour... and have told the OFT who bought the case that they can no longer pursue this matter...

Again what a bloody farce... :mad::mad:

The banks not liking what they were told twice decided they would keep going until they heard something that they did like..

What they seem to forget that if it were'nt for their customers Tax they would not even be here anymore...

Again... What a Bloody Farce... :mad::mad::mad:

Makes you proud to be British eh... :rolleyes:

Chill-

While I agree with some (most) of what you say...
if you look at the UK banking system and compare it to other European countries - then it is not so bad

If you go over drawn in Greece it is fraud and a fine can /is issued

France 3 times over drawn and that's it no bank account (in any french bank)

miss two payments on a Spanish morgage and they reposses the property on the third missed payment .


However i don't think any judge would of said to the banks pay it back - as the banks would only get the monies from the tax payer - the state they are in -

I would not be surprised if this is the end of free banking
Chequees are being fazed out- soon it will be a charge to withdrawn monies from the cashpoint as well as paying for an account (which I have to anyway )

THe house of lords did not say that they could not follow this up - but they could not use the arguement they had used they would have to go down another route (Fair contracts --for those not in the know - the House of lords basically said as long as the charges are/were spelt out at the start of the contract - then you have agreed to this . and you cannot then argue that they are unfair - (potential loop hole- those who's orgainl contracts have lower bank charges could appeal)

Although i don't agree high bank charges -there should be some banding system to penailse those who blow their overdraft ( how about the fine matching the amount overdrawn ?) this then would be a fine in relation to the amount (- only applies to the amount in excess of the overdraft- so if you go 10.00 over then you have to pay £10 in a fee
5.00 over and 5.00 fee/fine - if you go over 250.00 then that's what you pay £250.00 - we are only talking about those who blow their overdraft which is a minority -
just an idea - must be better than what we have now

What about those customers that have enough funds in other accounts so the bank aren't lending them any money but then not only charge an overdraft fee but also od interest for the priviledge of using their own money in the way they want, frankly it stinks and then the lot of them are saved by the poor bloody taxpayer. :mad:

What about those customers that have enough funds in other accounts so the bank aren't lending them any money but then not only charge an overdraft fee but also od interest for the priviledge of using their own money in the way they want, frankly it stinks and then the lot of them are saved by the poor bloody taxpayer. :mad:

We get that here, I had an instance where I over drew one account by a few dollars, realized a few hours later, transferred the money online from another account with the same bank, and though the dates are the same, it was past the "cut-off" time, so I incurred an overdraft charge! It was only $10.00 but, when your on a tight budget like me, it made me mad :mad:

What I don't understand is who authorisises the "unauthorised" overdrafts? If you don't have an overdraft facility they shouldn't let you go into overdraft in the first place! I got caught once, never again, I now pay myself a "salary" out of my salary, if the preditors leave anything by the end of the month, I consider it a bonus and stick it into my savings. I have managed to accumulate almost a whole pound in the last year :D

If you are a private (non-business) person and you stay out of the red and in the black you don't pay charges.

Col

Would my idea of the charge for the amount over drawn work ...
if you go £10 in the red then that is what you are charged

its not your money if you go past your overdraft - its someone else's

Would my idea of the charge for the amount over drawn work ...
if you go £10 in the red then that is what you are charged

its not your money if you go past your overdraft - its someone else's

No - was overdrawn of 1500 for a minute - as Rich says inter account - ie the bank had my money in credit.

You propose to fine me 1500 - the bank on this occasion waived it.
---

In the days of IT - a very small admin charge - like 2 quid should apply, then a usual loan amount of interest applied on the debt. (Work out the extortionate interest rate on some real examples, maquerading as overdraft fees, just to see how obscene the charges really are)

That covers the banks charges and even allows a small profit.

What is now is enforced usury.

This doesn't even need discussing - unless you are a crook in a bank or a judge on the make - no doubt.

No - was overdrawn of 1500 for a minute - as Rich says inter account - ie the bank had my money in credit.

You propose to fine me 1500 - the bank on this occasion waived it.
---

Banks of course should have the ability to waiver etc ---
how about a time scale so if o/d for more than 5 days then the fee/fine

Banks of course should have the ability to waiver etc ---
how about a time scale so if o/d for more than 5 days then the fee/fine
Banks got too large and greedy, this nonsence of taxpayers bailing them out to the tune of billions should have included the proviso of sacking the whole bloody lot of them at the top and capping by law their earnings.
This isn't the first time in history we've gone through this:mad:

Gary a fair solution to both sides is so simple its not worth discussing.


Why banks are allowed to ignore fairness and acceptable profits - and basically be to be a price fixing cartel, and usurers on this may be worth discussing.

---

Similarly whether they should pay back historical charges now is complicated - - ie since they are state owned in many instances - everyone would be paying money to those who did't manage their money well enough previously. That doesn't seem right either.

I think Rich summed it up nicely - they have gotten away with to much for too long. Which makes the judges ruling even more perverse.

While agreeing that the banks are making extortionate charges that are completely disproportionate you must remember that going overdrawn without authorisation is in fact theft. You are taking money that does not belong to you. What is the difference between picking up money that is lying on someones desk and helping yourself to money from the bank that does not belong to you.

While agreeing that the banks are making extortionate charges that are completely disproportionate you must remember that going overdrawn without authorisation is in fact theft. You are taking money that does not belong to you. What is the difference between picking up money that is lying on someones desk and helping yourself to money from the bank that does not belong to you.

It more of a forced loan - than theft.

ie I have expressly told them at the time I set up my account - I doint want any loans in the form of an overdaft. How when they do the opposite of what i asked is that theft?

They are in fact giving me a service I never asked for.

They should just refuse the payment and charge a reasonable fee and interest on that, for their trouble at most.

While agreeing that the banks are making extortionate charges that are completely disproportionate you must remember that going overdrawn without authorisation is in fact theft. You are taking money that does not belong to you. What is the difference between picking up money that is lying on someones desk and helping yourself to money from the bank that does not belong to you.
Are the banks so generous toward customers when they make mistakes with customers and their money?:mad:

It more of a forced loan - than theft.

ie I have expressly told them at the time I set up my account - I doint want any loans in the form of an overdaft. How when they do the opposite of what i asked is that theft?

They are in fact giving me a service I never asked for.

They should just refuse the payment and charge a reasonable fee and interest on that, for their trouble at most.


then we are into what is reasonable and also if you have a standing order (say to your morgage and there isn't enought funds -by £1.00) they reject it then the morgage company will then fine you for not paying - ie you ahve an agreement wit them to fund the debt)

I am not defending the banks - but the system needs to be fair and level

if you go overdrawn then you are borrowing moneis - if you go over that it is theft -and some types of payment have to be honoured as they have already been debit by other banks etc ...

If they refused say paying the TV lincese then you in for 200+ fine and a criminal record - you would certainly say they have to honour this
or how about your council tax - again if you don't pay it then they will ask for all of it up front - more debit problems

While I agree the current system is flawed - no one has come up with an alternative that makes sense to both sides - Banks are not going to run at a loss -( that does not mean they should run at inflated profits either)

then we are into what is reasonable and also if you have a standing order (say to your morgage and there isn't enought funds -by £1.00) they reject it then the morgage company will then fine you for not paying - ie you ahve an agreement wit them to fund the debt)

I am not defending the banks - but the system needs to be fair and level

if you go overdrawn then you are borrowing moneis - if you go over that it is theft -and some types of payment have to be honoured as they have already been debit by other banks etc ...

If they refused say paying the TV lincese then you in for 200+ fine and a criminal record - you would certainly say they have to honour this
or how about your council tax - again if you don't pay it then they will ask for all of it up front - more debit problems

While I agree the current system is flawed - no one has come up with an alternative that makes sense to both sides - Banks are not going to run at a loss -(that does not mean they should run at inflated profits either)

Yep - I asked them not to pay something if I did't have the money - its not theft if they do the opposite of what I requested - lets stop pretending it is, and they have no right paying debts on my behalf - and they have no right to charge me extortionate interest on a loan - I expressly said I did't want.

If i get fined elsewhere (the vast majority of my payments have no instant fine for a mistaken missed payment attached to them)- thats my problem - if I decide the bank charges are better - I will ask the bank for an overdraft. The fact is I didn't ask for the loan.

Of course a better solution exists - do what your customer asked you to do. Rather than profiteering off them by doing the opposite.

Yep - I asked them not to pay something if I did't have the money - its not theft if they do the opposite of what I requested - lets stop pretending it is, and they have no right paying debts on my behalf - and they have no right to charge me extortionate interest on a loan - I expressly said I did't want.

If i get fined elsewhere (the vast majority of my payments have no instant fine for a mistaken missed payment attached to them)- thats my problem - if I decide the bank charges are better - I will ask the bank for an overdraft. The fact is I didn't ask for the loan.

Of course a better solution exists - do what your customer asked you to do. Rather than profiteering off them by doing the opposite.

That I totally agree with - however if payment on other items start to get missed they will impose fines/fees (probably along the lines of credit card % which really are a rip off)

g

I dont propose anything but fairness to bothe sides - than bank and the customer - neither does that OFT, or even the judges.

The only people not interested in fairness are the banks. I wonder why not?

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/the-bank-charges-ruling-explained-1827327.html

Ho hum - I have only been caught once with this ever. Even so - its just not right.

Maybe I am of the old school (well certainly old) but in days of old when we dealt in £sd if you did not have the money you could not spend it. In those days having the money meant exactly that. Coins in the pocket. (nobody had notes cos the smallest was 10bob.

So today when money is largely electronic if you spend money you do not have then perhaps you are spending mine!. If you have not agreed an overdraft expect to pay the price. Not what it costs the bank. If it was my money you had "borrowed" without agreeing with me first then it would cost you a great deal more than the bank charges.

Yes banks can waive charges. I had a cheque go astray. Bank charged me £20 to stop the check. We entered into a discussion and the bank agreed to waive the charge.

If you borrow money without asking and agreeing first then you have nothing on your side to persuade the bank to waive the charge. Maybe for first time on a very short period like same day then you have a point to make.

Sorry if my views upset some people but that's the way I see it.

I have been skint to the point where I used to ask ny Dad to cash a cheque for me.... but not to sibmit the cheque to his bank for a week so that my pay had cleared and sufficient funds existed so I am not totally unsympathetic. If you think you are going to need some support get it in place first.

Len

Maybe I am of the old school (well certainly old) but in days of old when we dealt in £sd if you did not have the money you could not spend it. In those days having the money meant exactly that. Coins in the pocket. (nobody had notes cos the smallest was 10bob.

So today when money is largely electronic if you spend money you do not have then perhaps you are spending mine!. If you have not agreed an overdraft expect to pay the price. Not what it costs the bank. If it was my money you had "borrowed" without agreeing with me first then it would cost you a great deal more than the bank charges.

Yes banks can waive charges. I had a cheque go astray. Bank charged me £20 to stop the check. We entered into a discussion and the bank agreed to waive the charge.

If you borrow money without asking and agreeing first then you have nothing on your side to persuade the bank to waive the charge. Maybe for first time on a very short period like same day then you have a point to make.

Sorry if my views upset some people but that's the way I see it.

I have been skint to the point where I used to ask ny Dad to cash a cheque for me.... but not to sibmit the cheque to his bank for a week so that my pay had cleared and sufficient funds existed so I am not totally unsympathetic. If you think you are going to need some support get it in place first.

Len


while not quite as old as you Len (I don't remember the Groat or the sheckel )
I am pretty much of the same mind - when i first got my bank account and overdraft that went with it- i spent up tot he limit and then spent the next 6 months clearing - lesson learnt .. I do have an overdraft in case i need to buy something quickly - but I don't think i have used it in two years (I have this month just dipped into it - or am about to but shuffling the finanices around to clear straight away - - if i am charged for doing this (it should be minimal as its into th e overdraft not over the over draft ) then so be it .

I have no idea if it's the same in the UK (although I can't imagine it's all that different) but having worked in the banking arena in Canada for the last five years I'm well aware that it's totally at the bank's descretion whether or not to actual insist that someone pay a fine automatically given to them.

It seems to be the case that most people are treated like shop customers. If you're one of the a*%$holes who go into the building, start banging your fist on the counter and bleating about how you know your rights, you'll pretty much have to pay whatever fine has been incurred. If you're polite and discuss it with them, you'll get it waived, more often than not.

Lets see if I can understand the moral outrage here against say the working man who just about exists on his wage and needs to borrow just a few quid to tide him over, maybe even for just a day.The bank that he uses has just lost billions of OUR money and then has to go cap in hand to the government for BILLIONS more of OUR money in fact so much of OUR money thay we now face a greater national debt than at the end of WW11, we're stealing from them? I don't FUC!ing well think so! If their chief execs etc want bonuses tell them to stand at the front entrances to their banks with a begging bowl if this government had any guts it would tell the banks to get stuffed and get their profits from an honest day work, like everybody else:mad:

So you believe that because the bank showed a lack of financial control then its okay if everybody else does the same.

If people did not go overdrawn without prior agreement then the banks "income" would be reduced anyway and the example of good financial management clearly demonstrated by Jo Public

Len.

Gary

Groats were before my time as well but I do remember farthings

Lets see if I can understand the moral outrage here against say the working man who just about exists on his wage and needs to borrow just a few quid to tide him over, maybe even for just a day.The bank that he uses has just lost billions of OUR money and then has to go cap in hand to the government for BILLIONS more of OUR money in fact so much of OUR money thay we now face a greater national debt than at the end of WW11, we're stealing from them? I don't FUC!ing well think so! If their chief execs etc want bonuses tell them to stand at the front entrances to their banks with a begging bowl if this government had any guts it would tell the banks to get stuffed and get their profits from an honest day work, like everybody else:mad:
There are a lot of different issues here and they're all being lumped in together.
Are the bank bosses overpaid? Yes, grossly so. However, the risk of cancelling all bonuses is that everyone who's even semi-competent leaves and goes into the private sector. If you think things are bad now, try it with even less capable people running things.

Should anyone be allowed to go overdrawn with no penalty? Depends on the circumstances. In Paul's case, he specifically told the bank not to allow him to do so. If he then did, that was their mistake and there should be no charge. I can see why one was applied, since these are automatically applied by software, but speaking to a member of staff should result in it being waived, along with an apology and even, perhaps, compensation of some sort. If anyone else goes over for a day or so and it was a one-off, as opposed to a regular thing, then again, the fee should be waived, if only for PR purposes. If someon does it every month, however, (and plenty do), why shouldn't they be fined?

I'm willing to believe it wasn't the bank that "allowed" him to go overdrawn. In most circumstances, it's from use of a debit card as a credit card, where the funds are not drawn out immediately. Sometimes, what is charged on a credit card isn't what is actually charged in the end. For example, I used my debit card at a gas station here that charges a pending $5 charge to check for validity, that's all the bank sees until the final charge is sent to the bank a couple days later for the amount I actually purchased in fuel. Another example, I eat at a restaurant and use my debit card as a credit card to pay for my food. The total on the check comes to $15, that's what is charged. I leave a $5 tip on the reciept I sign for my meal. The bank doesn't see the additional $5 until it's sent to them. It's hardly the bank's fault that this occured.

What it really comes down to is poor money management. The world of debit cards has caused people to become lazy with keeping track of their money. They no longer use checks, so don't carry a checkbook to keep their account "balanced". In the end, they overdraw and then blame the banks because they didn't track their purchases better. The bank doesn't know you actually purchased $40 for gas and it doesn't know you left a $5 tip on the check. Only you do, so be wiser with your spending habits or stop using a debit card and keep cash, that way you know how much you have and how much you've spent.

So you believe that because the bank showed a lack of financial control then its okay if everybody else does the same.

If people did not go overdrawn without prior agreement then the banks "income" would be reduced anyway and the example of good financial management clearly demonstrated by Jo Public

Len.

Gary


Banks taking the moral high ground on customers financial responsibilities, I don't think so!

What it really comes down to is poor money management. . . . . . . . .so be wiser with your spending habits or stop using a debit card and keep cash, that way you know how much you have and how much you've spent.

Absolutely, it's not really rocket science. You know what you have coming in, you know therefore how much you have to deal with.

For example. If someone gets a 120% mortgage then months later - after the lower rate has expired they can't afford it, who's fault is that? Not the bank, it's up to the individual to work out all the pro's and con's at the start by using the "what if" scenario.

Col

Absolutely, it's not really rocket science. You know what you have coming in, you know therefore how much you have to deal with.

For example. If someone gets a 120% mortgage then months later - after the lower rate has expired they can't afford it, who's fault is that? Not the bank, it's up to the individual to work out all the pro's and con's at the start by using the "what if" scenario.

Col
Isn't it the banks fault for offering the product in the first place?:confused:

Isn't it the banks fault for offering the product in the first place?:confused:

Partially, but it's up to the borrower to make sure they can cope (in all scenarios).

I agree with Vass, just because it is (or was) easy to borrow loads doesn't mean you have to do it.

The limit on my credit card is now £12,000. It's there, it's easy money but I never use the card because it's not my money and I would be charged loads if I did max it out.

Col

I agree with Vass


Be careful, we wouldn't want this to get out of hand! :p

I agree with GaryPanic and Len Boorman.
Bank charges suck but I dont think that people should go into debt and then bitch about the charges to cover their shortages of funds. Just do not spend what you do not have and you will not have to pay the extra penalties.
The rest of the charges can be minimized depending on the deal you make with the bank when you open the accounts, they do offer different "deals" so basically on the onset you can decide how you want them to screw you. At least that way you have some control of how and when they will slowly bleed you to death.

That and most banks actually offer a "credit" account you can tie to your checking so that if by chance you do "accidentally" go over, it will be charged to the credit account at much lower fees/interest than overdraft would be.

I just find it amazing when someone borrowks money at a high interest rate plus big transaction fees because initially they figure they can afford it, and when they discover they have over extended themselves they want to blame the money lender.
If you absolutely need to go into debt then shop around for the best all over deal and not just the quickest deal. Best deal would be one you could afford in the worst case scenario and not the maximum you can squeeze if everything goes your way

I bet most of the people who were try to recover costs were the ones who blow their overdraft every month...

However Bank charges are execessive.. and do need to be revised on a better formula ..if the banks get charges reduced by a lot then we will end up paying for every transaction - money from the cash point, writing a cheque etc...

Banks have given themselves a bad press - salary's that don't reflect what the real world expects ( a bit like the politicans)

ING has the right idea - if you go over your balance, they charge you the prime interest rate on it (I think it is around 7%) until you pay it back. Wherease other banks charge you a flat $35 even if you only went over $1. That type of fee is outrageous and should be illegal.

ING has the right idea - if you go over your balance, they charge you the prime interest rate on it (I think it is around 7%) until you pay it back. Wherease other banks charge you a flat $35 even if you only went over $1. That type of fee is outrageous and should be illegal.

My bank charges $39 for each charge, no matter the amount. It is a bit on the high side, but again, if I watch my money, it doesn't happen to me. The bank wouldn't make any money on overdraft charges if people were more responsible.

The bank wouldn't make any money on overdraft charges if people were more responsible.

I don't think that is entirely true. The banks purposefully try to make it likely that you will overdraw so that they may collect fees. This makes up for the "free" checking they offer.

For instance, if I go deposit a paycheck at my local bank and it is between 1 and 2:30 on the third tuesday of a month with 30 days in it, the teller may decide to place a hold on the check for up to a week. Now that can be really inconvenient, since my family has to eat every single day, not just on days after the hold expires.

I don't think that is entirely true. The banks purposefully try to make it likely that you will overdraw so that they may collect fees. This makes up for the "free" checking they offer.

For instance, if I go deposit a paycheck at my local bank and it is between 1 and 2:30 on the third tuesday of a month with 30 days in it, the teller may decide to place a hold on the check for up to a week. Now that can be really inconvenient, since my family has to eat every single day, not just on days after the hold expires.

here in the UK that illegal -
the day a cheque is banked -then they can hold 1 working day for processing
then the cheque has to be credited - usually witihn 3 days thereafter - but 90% the same day (if its a major bank)

the same with putting a cheque into your account put it in on Monday - it should be credited on tuesday...

here in the UK that illegal -
the day a cheque is banked -then they can hold 1 working day for processing
then the cheque has to be credited - usually witihn 3 days thereafter - but 90% the same day (if its a major bank)

the same with putting a cheque into your account put it in on Monday - it should be credited on tuesday...

Should be illegal here too. Banks have too much power. I KNOW there is no way on earth it takes more than a single day for a check to clear because whenever I write someone a check, it comes out of my account within a day of them cashing it. But they figure they can clear my check in a day, then prevent me from using those funds for a week, and if they are lucky, they get an overdraft charge as a cherry on top.

Reasons they give for placing a hold: You haven't a deposited a check from that person before (so???). The check is over $5000 (again, so????). You have less than $500 in your account (which is why I need you to NOT put a hold on this!!!). etc. In makes me infuriated just thinking about it.

here in the UK that illegal -
the day a cheque is banked -then they can hold 1 working day for processing
then the cheque has to be credited - usually witihn 3 days thereafter - but 90% the same day (if its a major bank)

the same with putting a cheque into your account put it in on Monday - it should be credited on tuesday...
That's only been recently they got away with it for years:mad:

My banks policy is before 3pm, same day. After 3pm, the next day. However, I've always had them do it the same day up until close. Large checks can take up the 3 days. Anything over that is illegal in my state without just cause.

But again, if you know your bank's policy, you should plan for it or change banks. Ultimately, you're still responsible for your own money and should plan accordingly. If you spend money you don't have, it's still your fault.

But again, if you know your bank's policy, you should plan for it or change banks. Ultimately, you're still responsible for your own money and should plan accordingly. If you spend money you don't have, it's still your fault.

Spoken like someone with ample money in the bank, or a salary on direct deposit.

As a contractor who is just scraping by, I sometimes have to go 50 or 60 days before I am able to collect payment, especially these days. I am extremely responsible, but they still manage to catch me about once or twice a year. So much for "free" checking.

I am not opposed to paying a REASONABLE fee if I go over, but to charge me $35 when my account was overdrawn by $2 for all of six hours is just outrageous (yes this actually happened).

Spoken like someone with ample money in the bank, or a salary on direct deposit.

As a contractor who is just scraping by, I sometimes have to go 50 or 60 days before I am able to collect payment, especially these days. I am extremely responsible, but they still manage to catch me about once or twice a year. So much for "free" checking.

I am not opposed to paying a REASONABLE fee if I go over, but to charge me $35 when my account was overdrawn by $2 for all of six hours is just outrageous (yes this actually happened).

Nah, I'm paycheck to paycheck right now, definitely no ample money here lol. No direct deposit here either. I've also been caught with the fees, but I always blame myself, except for one time when I was charged fees when the protection didn't kick in from my savings like it was supposed to and another time that my ex's account was still tied to my savings and they took my money and placed it in her account. Yeah, I got that money back and she was charged! lol

Per Nov 1 dating payments is illegal in the NL as well (may be european law?)

In the NL we dont (directly) get charged a fee for overdraft, but simply incure a 20% intrest rate.... which can be far more friendly.
The funny thing they (used to) do is deposit money (salary) in your account today, dated tomorrow or the day after. It is visible and counting for your total balance, so you go and pay your bills, today, which are then back dated to yesterday and you end up paying atleast 3 day 20% intrest while you were in the black all the time. Much like the check being "on hold".

Seriously US still use checks? You MUST BE KIDDING, where is the internet banking?
Bank / money transferals?
Etc... Even good old cash over dumb checks :(

here in the UK that illegal -
the day a cheque is banked -then they can hold 1 working day for processing
then the cheque has to be credited - usually witihn 3 days thereafter - but 90% the same day (if its a major bank)

the same with putting a cheque into your account put it in on Monday - it should be credited on tuesday...
Not sure that is entirely accurate. When I pay a check into my UK bank account the receipt says the funds aren't available for 3 working days.

Not sure that is entirely accurate. When I pay a check into my UK bank account the receipt says the funds aren't available for 3 working days.

Not if you work for the Bank, you can get your cheques cleared the same day.

Not if you work for the Bank, you can get your cheques cleared the same day.
Most of us don't work for banks and have to wait 3 days to get our money. The fact the banks can do it quicker just adds to the irritation

I think the issue here is the scale of the charges, and yes I was one of the poeple trying to get my money back, my issue started with going overdrawn getting charged excessive charges which then meant that the following month I was chasing my tail and would go overdrawn again, and again get charged again.. It is a Viscious Circle, I had to constantly increase my overdraft limit only to find that charges that hadn't already been added were suddenly added taking me over again, again having to increase my overdraft to compensate.

I put part of the blame of myself losing my house onto this bank as without warning they suddenly ripped a £5000 overdraft that they had helped me to aquire away from me without warning, and then demaned that I pay the money back, which meant that I had to get another loan secured on my house to pay them, so that when the recession hit I was already in a bad way and lost my house..

And now, becuase of some idiot Lord who probably has a vested interest in banking and no doubt shares has decided the bank does not have to pay my money back..

Now talk to me about fair...

Most of us don't work for banks and have to wait 3 days to get our money. The fact the banks can do it quicker just adds to the irritation

They aren't cleared - but credited (so you get interest on them after 1 day)
not that the interest on them is worth anything -

small distintion - but it is there -

I think we are all sorry for you, Scott. I just hope your situation improves soon. However the decision was not made by 1 Lord but by 5 of the highest judges in the country. Their decision was made on a narrow legal technicality which has nothing to do with fairness as you and I perceive it. The door is still open for the OFT(Office of Fair Trading) to pursue the banks on other grounds.

My sympathy is with you Scott - and you seem to be a relative small minority of persons who are caught up in this mess- - but I am sure there are a lot of people out there who abused the situation .....

Had i been in your shoes - I would certainly argued the case - after the first set of charges that the second set of charges were/are/did compound the issue and should of been waivered given that you had arranged an overdraft extention to cope with a short term problem -

the Bank should of been more reaosnable - and at that point - you probably shoudl of open another account transfer everything accross and leave the overdraft fees/charges as outstanding and then told them to see you in court - a small claims court generally sides with the little guy - (thats if the big banks can be bothered to turn up)

Seriously US still use checks? You MUST BE KIDDING, where is the internet banking?
Bank / money transferals?
Etc... Even good old cash over dumb checks :(

Yep, most businesses still pay with checks. No-one is going to hand you thousands or even hundreds of dollars in cash!

Yep, most businesses still pay with checks. No-one is going to hand you thousands or even hundreds of dollars in cash!
Canada also uses cheques/checks and, unless they've been discontinued since 2003, so does the UK.

Canada also uses cheques/checks and, unless they've been discontinued since 2003, so does the UK.

cheques are to be phased out - however you still will be able to get a bankers cheque or a bank warrant (almostt he same as a cheque - i am unsure as to the difference)



I like cheques - its a relatively safe way of sending monies from A to B
However as a business I can understand that bank transfers are a lot quicker -easier to manage (there is no credit issue as its cash straight away)

cheques are to be phased out - however you still will be able to get a bankers cheque or a bank warrant (almostt he same as a cheque - i am unsure as to the difference)



I like cheques - its a relatively safe way of sending monies from A to B
However as a business I can understand that bank transfers are a lot quicker -easier to manage (there is no credit issue as its cash straight away)

Besides, what about checks to people that aren't online, I pay rent by check but all other bills on line. Also, I gift via checks sometimes, or when people want me to donate to their children's fundraisers etc.

cheques are to be phased out - however you still will be able to get a bankers cheque or a bank warrant (almostt he same as a cheque - i am unsure as to the difference)

I like cheques - its a relatively safe way of sending monies from A to B
However as a business I can understand that bank transfers are a lot quicker -easier to manage (there is no credit issue as its cash straight away)
Interesting. I can definitely see that electronic transfers are more efficient in many ways, but at the time I moved over here, I used to use cheques for various things.

What's the method of taking a rental deposit going to be? If it's a bankers cheque, do the banks charge for them?

My sympathy is with you Scott - and you seem to be a relative small minority of persons who are caught up in this mess- - but I am sure there are a lot of people out there who abused the situation .....
I'll second that.

...- and at that point - you probably shoudl of open another account transfer everything accross and leave the overdraft fees/charges as outstanding and then told them to see you in court - a small claims court generally sides with the little guy - (thats if the big banks can be bothered to turn up)

That's more or less what I did. When my bank charges went up and up I went to a company who very nicely offered to help me out. Their plan was that I would stop paying my predators, once the debts were sent to debt collectors they would negotiate with them for reduced payments I would then only need to pay x amount a month and after 5 years I'd be debt free and they would own half of my house.

I followed their instructions, allowed my debts to be passed over to debt collectors (didn't stop paying my mortgage though), then I negotiated with the debt collectors, paid all my debts off in 5 years and still own all of my house. There are a lot of scheisters out there.

Scott, it's not easy but there is always light a the end of the tunnel, hang in there honey.

Interesting. I can definitely see that electronic transfers are more efficient in many ways, but at the time I moved over here, I used to use cheques for various things.

What's the method of taking a rental deposit going to be? If it's a bankers cheque, do the banks charge for them?

bankers cheque will still exist .....
rental deposit - here in the uk new scheme -still being thrashed out - but effectively monies are held in a secure account and then credited to your account- however this is so new - that I doubt if anyone has used it ..
better by credit card as you have up to 6 months to claw the moneis back ...

(For those not in the know- if you pay by C/c and the goods or services are not as described and the amount is over (£100 i think) then you can claw the money back from the credit card company- you have to inform the c/c company with details 9copy correspondnace etc) then they just take the monies out of the account and credit to you - the company then has to deal either with you or the credit card company to prove the goods/servces were as described ( goverment fines are not recoverable in this way)

If you have got credit problems - I would be glad to give pointers on how to manage them - however that is not one for the forum- i would only be giving pointers and alternative options - if you are really stuck then CAB is a good place to start ,
you can also get creditcard frozen while you sort you accountsout - however this freeze is limited to x days 30-60 from memory - however this can give you that breathing space to clear one or transfer -

Egg card transfers might also be a better option....


if its a morgage problem then the range of options to help is increasing weekly - some of the options though are unsavoury - but sometimes a bitter pill needs to be taken

If its pensions then speak to an expert - (not your bank or the person who supplied the pension plan)

Besides, what about checks to people that aren't online, I pay rent by check but all other bills on line. Also, I gift via checks sometimes, or when people want me to donate to their children's fundraisers etc.

give it ten years and it will all be on line or by phone charge (a bit like topping up your pay as you go phone -but it willb e in reverse - paying by credit on your phone - its started here in Kent - you can pay for your parking by mobile phone

give it ten years and it will all be on line or by phone charge (a bit like topping up your pay as you go phone -but it willb e in reverse - paying by credit on your phone - its started here in Kent - you can pay for your parking by mobile phone
Yeah all so the banks can make even more money out of us:rolleyes::mad:

I don't currently use checks for anything. Employers still pay by check though. I don't have direct deposit on mine, I've had issues with it in the past where my money was deposited into the wrong account.

ok - just on the TV

one bank is trying for a £5 fine per day for going overdrawn (another is doing it on £1.00)


I must admit that this is what i thought would happen - and if you run a tight bank account will be no real burden - but if you need a bit of flexibility your screwed..

the flat charge of £30.00 might of seemed steep - but if you go overdrawn on Friday and back into credit monday - £15.00 gone and that's f youare one penny overdraw (or over your overdraft)

for those (UK) guys who need a bit of flexibility - a couple of banks offer a buffer zone - time to look at your bank acocunts

I have not looked in to but the Co-OP as a bank might offer more socialable terms

ok - just on the TV

one bank is trying for a £5 fine per day for going overdrawn (another is doing it on £1.00)


I must admit that this is what i thought would happen - and if you run a tight bank account will be no real burden - but if you need a bit of flexibility your screwed..

the flat charge of £30.00 might of seemed steep - but if you go overdrawn on Friday and back into credit monday - £15.00 gone and that's f youare one penny overdraw (or over your overdraft)

for those (UK) guys who need a bit of flexibility - a couple of banks offer a buffer zone - time to look at your bank acocunts

I have not looked in to but the Co-OP as a bank might offer more socialable terms

Well there you go, this is the start of the result of the Lords who overruled the Bank Charges case telling the Banks thay can charge what they want...

Still won't affect any of them their all loaded, that how they can afford to pay £150 for a roll of wall paper... :mad:

Well there you go, this is the start of the result of the Lords who overruled the Bank Charges case telling the Banks thay can charge what they want...

Still won't affect any of them their all loaded, that how they can afford to pay £150 for a roll of wall paper... :mad:

shop around - see what's out there
online bank will certainly be cheaper - but also check building soc's that have cheque accounts

I did think that if the banks had lost the case this would of happened

give it time and they will be charging to hold you monies - at this point - it will be worth taking you moneis out of the main 5 banks and using an overseas account (as long as its within the EU and has online faculities )

this will be the wake up call - however you will then be subject to that countires laws on banking (German accounts from memory seemed ok)