I have long been a proponent of a strong domestic nuclear energy program.
Having grown up in Clear Lake City Texas, I am well aware of the level of pollution caused by the processing of petrochemicals and petroleum based fuels.

So now the Obama administration and some democrats in congress are proposing to change some tax laws, to make it more conducive to build more nuclear plants.

This is in line with promises made during the campaign about making tax law to bring jobs back, instead of tax breaks for the dismantling of the US industrial base.

Investment in Nuclear Reactors and changing the tax laws are exactly the kind of stimulus package this country needs.

Just keep in mind that the same parties who caused the level of pollution processing of petrochemicals and petroleum based fuels are most likely the same ones that will be producing the nuclear facilities and supplies.

I have long been a proponent of a strong domestic nuclear energy program.
Having grown up in Clear Lake City Texas, I am well aware of the level of pollution caused by the processing of petrochemicals and petroleum based fuels.

So now the Obama administration and some democrats in congress are proposing to change some tax laws, to make it more conducive to build more nuclear plants.

This is in line with promises made during the campaign about making tax law to bring jobs back, instead of tax breaks for the dismantling of the US industrial base.

Investment in Nuclear Reactors and changing the tax laws are exactly the kind of stimulus package this country needs.

Just keep in mind that the same parties who caused the level of pollution processing of petrochemicals and petroleum based fuels are most likely the same ones that will be producing the nuclear facilities and supplies.
True enough, but we have a good track record of inspection in that industry.

I do not think the luck in the industry's track record will hold out for ever. The allow the companies to 'self report' is problematic. Things such as Exelon Corp being in trouble for not reporting an evacuation alarm from a week ago. Same facility which had a major problem in the past - Three Mile Island.
True enough, but we have a good track record of inspection in that industry.

...and when exactly did the nuclear waste become 'environmentally friendly'???

...and when exactly did the nuclear waste become 'environmentally friendly'???
When the Americans found out how to make bombs out of it

...and when exactly did the nuclear waste become 'environmentally friendly'???
It's not; but the facilities for controlling it are in place, and when consider the millions of tons of waste associated with producing electricity from coal, you have to measure the risk vs. reward.

The consensus has gone back to favoring nuclear.

It's not; but the facilities for controlling it are in place, and when consider the millions of tons of waste associated with producing electricity from coal, you have to measure the risk vs. reward.

The consensus has gone back to favoring nuclear.
How about trying to save energy first?:rolleyes:

When the Americans found out how to make bombs out of it



Is there a point?

There are 53 nuclear power plant under construction around the globe. The US has not produced one in over 13 years.

(with aplogies to Peter Allen)

but no matter how gruesome or grotesque I have grown
I still call Chernobyl home.......

How about trying to save energy first?:rolleyes:

Ones again Rich you are getting your news by way of the smoke signal. US energy consumption is on the decline.

Is there a point?

There are 53 nuclear power plant under construction around the globe. The US has not produced one in over 13 years.
Answer previous post first

(with aplogies to Peter Allen)

but no matter how gruesome or grotesque I have grown
I still call Chernobyl home.......

Mathematically it is safer than most other forms of energy. Arguments to the contrary are generally based on emotion.

Ones again Rich you are getting your news by way of the smoke signal. US energy consumption is on the decline.
Only because of the Recession

Only because of the Recession


Wrong again dragon breath. Cars are smaller and the US manufacturers are taking the lead on energy efficiency. Soon ours will be the safest, most fuel efficient cars in the world.

Wrong again dragon breath. Cars are smaller and the US manufacturers are taking the lead on energy efficiency. Soon ours will be the safest, most fuel efficient cars in the world.
Crap! your houses are poorly insulated, your heating appliances are inefficient and houses that could gain enormous benefits from solar energy are prevented from doing so by zonal laws, try again dogs breath

Crap! your houses are poorly insulated, your heating appliances are inefficient and houses that could gain enormous benefits from solar energy are prevented from doing so by zonal laws, try again dogs breath

Where do you get your news? From the Alcida Daily Examiner?

Do they have some kind of news screening organization to make the British feel more secure, by only allowing news that show us to be inferior?

Barracuda nose, you seriously cannot be that daft.

houses that could gain enormous benefits from solar energy are prevented from doing so by zonal laws

Really? That's astounding! Exactly who's "zonal laws" are these?

Where do you get your news? From the Alcida Daily Examiner?

Do they have some kind of news screening organization to make the British feel more secure, by only allowing news that show us to be inferior?

Barracuda nose, you seriously cannot be that daft.


No, it's common knowledge over here turd for brains, disprove it:cool:

Really? That's astounding! Exactly who's "zonal laws" are these?
Ask Kenny Higg

Crap! your houses are poorly insulated, your heating appliances are inefficient and houses that could gain enormous benefits from solar energy are prevented from doing so by zonal laws, try again dogs breath

I had to respond yet again. Try reading the IRC (international Residential Code).

It's the same one adapted by Europe, Japan, and the United States, and yes even in Britian, where it is wondered if they can follow it.

No, it's common knowledge over here turd for brains, disprove it:cool:
You're cracking me up. LOL
How can I possibly prove your news is tainted?

That would make me as bad as you, generalizing like it's universal truth, I would however, believe you are prone to licking live light sockets.

I had to respond yet again. Try reading the IRC (international Residential Code).

It's the same one adapted by Europe, Japan, and the United States, and yes even in Britin, where it is wondered if they can follow it.
Quote taken from the US manual on the subject

it is worth noting that a few states have no requirements or may only have an energy code as a recommended practice. it is worth noting that a few states have no requirements or may only have an energy code as a recommended practice.

You're cracking me up. LOL
How can I possibly prove your news is tainted?

That would make me as bad as you, generalizing like it's universal truth, I would however, believe you are prone to licking live light sockets.
I know just how far behind your mob is over there but my electrics are protected by a device called an RCCD :rolleyes:

Quote taken from the US manual on the subject
"A few states"

Rich the vast majority of US citizens live in modern cities and suburbs, none of these would fall into that category. You are referring to mainly agricultural states, where building codes are obviously less enforced.

I know just how far behind your mob is over there but my electrics are protected by a device called an RCCD :rolleyes:

Wow I"ve never heard of ground fault technology before. I wonder who started using it first?

The ground-fault circuit-interrutper (GFCI) was developed in the 1960’s based on a concept by Professor Charles Dalziel of the University of California at Berkeley. The GFCI became a success soon after it was developed into a commercial product by a handful of companies

Wow I"ve never heard of ground fault technology before. I wonder who started using it first?


Nothing to do with ground faults, try again

"A few states"

Rich the vast majority of US citizens live in modern cities and suburbs, none of these would fall into that category. You are referring to mainly agricultural states, where building codes are obviously less enforced.
How large is the combined size of the Rural US?

How large is the combined size of the Rural US?
Very large, with a very low population.

Very large, with a very low population.
What do you call low?

Nothing to do with ground faults, try again
Irrelevant; the implication was that we don't have protection against electrocution. Again the amount you think you known compared to the actual facts is, in fact, an entire universe.

What do you call low?
Less than 2%.
80% live within 200 miles (320 K) from the coast.

Less than 2%.
80% live within 200 miles (320 K) from the coast.
Well that's odd according to your own census the figure is in excess of 52,000,000 almost the size of the UK population, hardly insignificant:rolleyes:

How large is the combined size of the Rural US?

Plus just because they're rural doesn't mean they don't have building codes, that is a subset. But you knew that already, 'cause you're a genius.

Irrelevant; the implication was that we don't have protection against electrocution. Again the amount you think you known compared to the actual facts is, in fact, an entire universe.
Irrelevant, basic earth fault protection has been superceeded here for decades

Well that's odd according to your own census the figure is in excess of 52,000,000 almost the size of the UK population, hardly insignificant:rolleyes:
Rural does not nessisarilly mean they are in a state without codes many rural area exist in states with large cities. Making them prone to having modern building codes.

Rural does not nessisarilly mean they are in a state without codes many rural area exist in states with large cities. Making them prone to having modern building codes.
Codes should apply to the whole country, not just to those states that decide to opt in or out

Irrelevant, basic earth fault protection has been superceeded here for decades
Well you guys have a tendency to reinvent wheels.
If ya’ll are so good at electrical engineering, why did your car makers fail to make an electrical system work; until we took over your failing auto industry and give it an overhaul?

Codes should apply to the whole country, not just to those states that decide to opt in or out
In principle I agree, however farming communities have always operated on different paradigms.
A necessary cost verses improvement ratio.

RCD residual current device
RCCD residual current operated circuit breaker
SRCD socket outlet incorporating an RCD
PRCD portable RCD, usually an RCD incorporated into a plug
RCBO an RCCD which includes overcurrent protection
SRCBO a socket outlet incorporating an RCBO

Also know as
ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI),
ground fault interrupter (GFI)
or an appliance leakage current interrupter (ALCI).

in the states and Canada

Well you guys have a tendency to reinvent wheels.
If ya’ll are so good at electrical engineering, why did your car makers fail to make an electrical system work; until we took over your failing auto industry and give it an overhaul?
When and where was that, you're not talking about General Motors are you?:rolleyes:

Codes should apply to the whole country, not just to those states that decide to opt in or out
Anyway it is again irrelevant. The vast majority of home construction is in urban areas.

When and where was that, you're not talking about General Motors are you?:rolleyes:

I think at Jaguar and Land Rover, American electrical engineers overcame decades of British electrical incompetence.

I seem to remember a certain MG with a positive ground, a guaranteed recipe for run-away corrosion.

RCD residual current device
RCCD residual current operated circuit breaker
SRCD socket outlet incorporating an RCD
PRCD portable RCD, usually an RCD incorporated into a plug
RCBO an RCCD which includes overcurrent protection
SRCBO a socket outlet incorporating an RCBO

Also know as
ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI),
ground fault interrupter (GFI)
or an appliance leakage current interrupter (ALCI).

in the states and Canada

Thank you Brian, but I wonder why you would want to spoil this dialog with actual facts.

Thank you Brian, but I wonder why you would want to spoil this dialog with actual facts.

OOps! sorry. :o

Brian

I think at Jaguar and Land Rover, American electrical engineers overcame decades of British electrical incompetence.

I seem to remember a certain MG with a positive ground, a guaranteed recipe for run-away corrosion.
I remember a list of the Fords that I had with positive ground too, now what was your point again?:rolleyes:

I think at Jaguar and Land Rover, American electrical engineers overcame decades of British electrical incompetence.

I seem to remember a certain MG with a positive ground, a guaranteed recipe for run-away corrosion.

I think all cars had positive earth in the old days, my first Ford definitely did.

Brian

PS electric cars , like energy saving light bulbs are an environmental disaster.

Brian

I remember a list of the Fords that I had with positive ground too, now what was your point again?:rolleyes:
British Fords I imagine. Something to do with British employment laws.

Thank you Brian, but I wonder why you would want to spoil this dialog with actual facts.
Proximity to American resistance movement:eek:

British Fords I imagine. Something to do with British employment laws.
American ingenuity:rolleyes:

I think all cars had positive earth in the old days, my first Ford definitely did.

Brian

PS electric cars , like energy saving light bulbs are an environmental disaster.

Brian

I think that LEDs will have quite the opposite effect. Cheep to make, cheep to use, very low enviromental impact.

Back to nuclear, electric cars will be less of an impact when we stop burning coal to power them.

Brian

PS electric cars , like energy saving light bulbs are an environmental disaster.

Brian
Solar powered cars would only be a disaster here;)

Solar powered cars would only be a disaster here;)

Yup, you need sunshine.

Yup, you need sunshine.
Yep and you've got plenty of it in the deserted areas like Texas,try replacing some of the nodding donkeys with solar panels

Yep and you've got plenty of it in the deserted areas like Texas,try replacing some of the nodding donkeys with solar panels

Donkeys keep you warm at night.

Ask Kenny Higg

Hey Ken,

Rich seems to be saying that you said that the whole US has restrictive "zonal laws" that prevent us from installing solar power on our homes. Is that true? Can you cite the laws from all the thousands upon thousands of municipalities that make up the US "zones"? Or is Rich just mis-"quoting" something you may or may not have said?

Back to nuclear, electric cars will be less of an impact when we stop burning coal to power them.

But the spent batteries , full of funny metals , still have to be disposed of, along with the Nuclear waste.

I don't know much, well anything, about it but some "experts" seem to be saying that the resources put into electric cars would be better employed developing the hydrogen cell technology.

Brian

Hey Ken,

Rich seems to be saying that you said that the whole US has restrictive "zonal laws" that prevent us from installing solar power on our homes. Is that true? Can you cite the laws from all the thousands upon thousands of municipalities that make up the US "zones"? Or is Rich just mis-"quoting" something you may or may not have said?

Heck if I know where he got that?

LOL... electric cars - the Future of automobiling is over a century old...

http://www.chuckstoyland.com/national/19101914/1910/10%20Baker%20Electric%20AD%20Harpers.jpg

But the spent batteries , full of funny metals , still have to be disposed of, along with the Nuclear waste.

I don't know much, well anything, about it but some "experts" seem to be saying that the resources put into electric cars would be better employed developing the hydrogen cell technology.

Brian

Absolutely Brian, I have always spoken against electric cars for that very reason, and I was always dismayed that most people that have supported electric cars never considered where the energy came from to start with.
Hydrogen fuel cells require energy from fuel separate from the fuel cell activity. You might think of a fuel cell as a clean, high yield battery.

No matter what the storage mechanism, the power grid has to be expanded to accommodate the extra load put on it by “charging” all those cars. In a coal burning society like the US, increases in electric cars means more pollution per mile driven than using gasoline powered vehicles.

Having said that though, we are changing quickly in the US to favor Natural Gas because they recently discovered an extremely large field (natural gas) stretching from North Texas to Pennsylvania (or so) There should be enough gas in this discovery to power the nation’s existing grid, plus convert a substantial number of cars to electric and still provide energy for about a hundred years.

That does not eliminate the need for developing non-fossil fuel technologies. One of the neglected conversations concerning energy is the very real need to develop massive power hungry desalination and delivery mechanisms for huge amounts of agricultural water. The United States pumps around a trillion gallons a year from the Ogallala Aquifer, the life blood of American agriculture. In India, since adopting American high yield methodologies, they are now experiencing salt water infusion into their aquifers due to reverse flow.

Ultimately fusion nuclear reactors will replace fission reactors, but in the mean time we need to continue to reduce our personal consumption, hopefully by higher yields as well as more thoughtful personal habits and at the same time increase production at the source.

But one thing to consider is that personal mobility is maybe the highest form of personal freedom. I’m a subway dweller and as such will not be a candidate for electric vehicles for some time to come, but millions of people living closer in would be. We just need to make sure the grid exist to support them.

For further reading on the Ogallala Aquifer
http://www.geology.iastate.edu/gccourse/issues/society/ogallala/ogallala.html

Heck if I know where he got that?
His memory which is obviously better than yours:p

LOL... electric cars - the Future of automobiling is over a century old...



True enough but the power utilization curve is just now becoming practical, due to rare earth magnets and exotic battery elements.

Funny though, we sent the first hydrogen fuel cells into space in the 60s.

But currently commercially generating hydrogen is by Electrolysis which consumes a lot of electricity so again you need to consider where the energy came from to make the fuel.
I put up a couple of small wind turbines to generate some electricity for a couple of electric vehicles. Works quite well but I will eventually need send the batteries for recycling. Our solar lights in the out buildings also have batteries for storage so those also go to the recyclers once they are no longer storing electricity efficiently.
We also manufacture our own ethanol fuel.

Absolutely Brian, I have always spoken against electric cars for that very reason, and I was always dismayed that most people that have supported electric cars never considered where the energy came from to start with.
Hydrogen fuel cells require energy from fuel separate from the fuel cell activity. You might think of a fuel cell as a clean, high yield battery.

No matter what the storage mechanism, the power grid has to be expanded to accommodate the extra load put on it by “charging” all those cars. In a coal burning society like the US, increases in electric cars means more pollution per mile driven than using gasoline powered vehicles.

Having said that though, we are changing quickly in the US to favor Natural Gas because they recently discovered an extremely large field (natural gas) stretching from North Texas to Pennsylvania (or so) There should be enough gas in this discovery to power the nation’s existing grid, plus convert a substantial number of cars to electric and still provide energy for about a hundred years.

That does not eliminate the need for developing non-fossil fuel technologies. One of the neglected conversations concerning energy is the very real need to develop massive power hungry desalination and delivery mechanisms for huge amounts of agricultural water. The United States pumps around a trillion gallons a year from the Ogallala Aquifer, the life blood of American agriculture. In India, since adopting American high yield methodologies, they are now experiencing salt water infusion into their aquifers due to reverse flow.

Ultimately fusion nuclear reactors will replace fission reactors, but in the mean time we need to continue to reduce our personal consumption, hopefully by higher yields as well as more thoughtful personal habits and at the same time increase production at the source.

But one thing to consider is that personal mobility is maybe the highest form of personal freedom. I’m a subway dweller and as such will not be a candidate for electric vehicles for some time to come, but millions of people living closer in would be. We just need to make sure the grid exist to support them.

For further reading on the Ogallala Aquifer
http://www.geology.iastate.edu/gccourse/issues/society/ogallala/ogallala.html

His memory which is obviously better than yours:p

The point is, puzzled/Rich, the United States is huge. There are an uncountable number of municipal utility districts, deed restricted communities, city governments, county governments, etc. all with their own rules and regulations. I can't remember a place I have been in the US where I haven't seen solar power of one form or another. Yes, some building codes may be more restrictive than others, or some community deed restrictions may consider certain types of apparatus added to homes in their area to be eye-sores. But, you cannot brush the entire country with the same brush stroke. Every area is different. There is no single US law or restriction that keeps people from embracing solar power.

The reason SOME people have chosen not to go with solar power in the US is that there is no financial incentive. In some areas, it is not feasible at all because of local weather patterns. However, many people use solar power/heating in the US, especially in the south. I haven't seen it as a problem, even when they have to abide by a local ordinance (which you must do whenever you build anything onto your home).

The only reason I can think of for not allowing them would be in historical districts where they would be, as you say, eye-sores.

The only reason I can think of for not allowing them would be in historical districts where they would be, as you say, eye-sores.


The federal government is restricted in our constitution from gaining too much power over local citizens. Something some British minds (Rich, Col, and Rich’s alter ego Puzzled) have a hard time grasping. Possibly since they still think of us as colonies and have not accepted that we developed this system of government in response to being dictated to, by a government across the Atlantic.

In very few cases are any home owners restricted from making energy improvement, accept in cases where Home Owners Association restrict it. But in those cases the person elected to live there because of the restrictions, not inspite of them. The funny thing about HOAs is that everyone want to keep the property values high, but they don’t think the restrictions should apply to them.

In the United States the federal government exerts its will over the country by modifying tax law, and by controlling funding for projects. A concept lost on certain people (before mentioned) from across the pond.

Side bar on Alter Ego: isn’t the point of an alter ego to actually act like someone else? I think his alter ego exist to show that at least one other person in the world shares his distorted views.

Maybe he’s lonely; we should be nice to him.

The federal government is restricted in our constitution from gaining too much power over local citizens. Something some British minds (Rich, Col, and Rich’s alter ego Puzzled) have a hard time grasping.
So much for a United country, you ought to try being a democracy, you know like Iran was before Americans changed it:rolleyes:

So much for a United country, you ought to try being a democracy, you know like Iran was before Americans changed it:rolleyes:
When was Iran democratic?:confused: The Shah ran a very autocratic regime which was replace by an equally undemocratic Islamic regime. Explain please

When was Iran democratic?:confused: The Shah ran a very autocratic regime which was replace by an equally undemocratic Islamic regime. Explain please

There you go with facts again.

When was Iran democratic?:confused: The Shah ran a very autocratic regime which was replace by an equally undemocratic Islamic regime. Explain please
The Shah was the puppet installed by the US to control the US interests:rolleyes: