This site is not a joke but some of the people who post to it are.

What value do we get from arguing and bickering with people you don’t even know? Are our lives so mundane that we have to create turmoil with strangers? How does the increased unnecessary stress of unresolved argument make us feel? Does it make us feel stronger? More powerful? If so, why do these words fester like an open wound in a sewer?

As far as I can see this site was created to allow users with knowledge of software help others, and each other resolve work related issues. The owner kindly created an area within for us to socialise, presumably because it became apparent that we shared a lot of personality characteristics.

Apparently the site has become like a miniature world. Small factions are breaking out causing friction wherever their paths shall meet. Let’s see if we can rise above that. We, most of us anyway, walked out of the playground many years ago, life is for progress, let’s not keep going back.

Sadly the admins do not seem to have the balls to remove the people who are repeatedly causing the trouble here. Obviously the little slap on the wrist of a threat of being banned or actually being temporarily banned does absolutely nothing.
It is also up to each individual to stop sparring with the assholes and perhaps they will cease their cyber-grafiti, unless of course they are getting the same petty rush out of these senseless squabbles.

Hi Oumahexi:

This site is not a joke but some of the people who post to it are.

As far as I can see this site was created to allow users with knowledge of software help others, and each other resolve work related issues. The owner kindly created an area within for us to socialise, presumably because it became apparent that we shared a lot of personality characteristics.


Thank you for posting this to counter the vocal minority opinion that believes otherwise. I think that 99% of the participants here find this forum to be a lifeline when stumped and an opportunity to share experience and expertise with other Access users. Any group of people will contain a segment who are easily ignored and I laud everyone who comes to this forum to learn and teach, ranging from the inexperienced Access users to the power users.

I don't usually get involved with or even bother reading the squabbling but enough is enough and the rest of us who use the forum for the reason it was established should be speaking up.

Cheers

SHADOW

Sadly the admins do not seem to have the balls to remove the people who are repeatedly causing the trouble here. Obviously the little slap on the wrist of a threat of being banned or actually being temporarily banned does absolutely nothing.
It is also up to each individual to stop sparring with the assholes and perhaps they will cease their cyber-grafiti, unless of course they are getting the same petty rush out of these senseless squabbles.

Including you, eh:rolleyes:

This is one of the more sensible threads dealing with this annoying and destructive habit that appears to be growing.

I agree. We all should try and refrain from posting to any Thread that is not in our best interests for the short and or long term.

I have seen comments such as "consensus" used by one or two of these posts yet when you consider there are 10's of thousands of Members how can such a comment hold water. To me, any consensus is that we want to have a peaceful and pleasant forum to learn and share access.

Maybe an "Antisocial" forum, if such exits, would hold more like minded members and they can rant and rave all day long amongst friends and we can get on with miserable lives. (in their opinion)

I agree. We all should try and refrain from posting to any Thread that is not in our best interests for the short and or long term.



There you have it.

And members who are sensitive or don't like arguments etc should avoid the Watercooler and Political forums. As far as I can see the Access forums are always polite.

What value do we get from arguing and bickering with people you don’t even know?there's a lot of value in it Jan. For one thing it keeps your job alive somedays... :/

as for the inevitable arguing, would you rather it be here in cyberspace where it does no harm, or out on the gaza strip, where people can actually get killed? oh wait...that's already happening...I meant to say: would you rather it be in real life in your own backyard? I think not hun! Enjoy it, because if the anger can't be poured out through the keyboard the only other outlet is out in the real world somewhere. let us still with the lesser of two evils

Yeah this bickering and arguing is outrageous. How dare people actually have a bit of fire in their belly about a topic. This board would be much better if we all just got along and painted everything a shade beige.

Well - Oumahexi is bang on I think. This site has definitely been a huge help to me, and it's the first that I've wanted to actually participate in and help other users - so it's my first time seeing the posts of the hardcore moaners, which I guess exist on every forum. Amusing at first, then straight on to 'oh god not again'.

Fire in your belly is fine, but seriously - have any of the moaners gone back after a week or two and read some of the threads that the hardcore few get sucked into? They're all a bit petty really and all seem to revolve around some age old feud that nobody who's joined in the last year relly cares about - they're just p*ssed that their threads get hijacked and turn into another cat fight.

So in conclusion - arguing with strangers=pointless. Helping people with their Access problems=priceless. I don't normally bother posting in non-Access threads except to comment on their silliness, but after seeing that 'this site is increasingly becoming a joke' thread the other day, I feel as though I should stick up for what I think is a wicked site for Access'ers of all levels to learn, share and get better.

Any establishment, that has as much agro as here, has some dodgy clientele and is badly run.

Prospective dodgy clientele are inevitable, no matter what - the ineffectual management of them is not.

So although first off, I thought Bob was well within his rights to delete posts on his restaurant thread.

Actually all that was happening was that in front of - or directed towards a mod things that shouldn't be tolerated weren't.

Sadly though its also obvious the protections and rights the mods think are right for themselves aren't offered to everyone else, which allows trouble to brew.

Simply put - the only differance here from anywhere else - is the management is failing. As I put in my other thread - if it can't be managed effectively, maybe it should be shut.

That thread was closed without reply - and the mismanagement of the non access forum in general continued.

There you have it.

And members who are sensitive or don't like arguments etc should avoid the Watercooler and Political forums. As far as I can see the Access forums are always polite.

So we cannot have a pleasant exchange of information, but have to expect some moron to be abusive?

Paul and I don't live to far apart and probably frequent the same restaurants so if he says that Mr Wong's is the best chinese restaurant and I think Mr Chu's is it is fine for me to say that he is a B***** T*** with obviously no taste? Personally I think that would be a banning. I can disagree with him in a polite manner and perhaps even suggest why.

Brian

So we cannot have a pleasant exchange of information, but have to expect some moron to be abusive?


I think this is misleading.

Yes a pleasant exchange of information can and should be had in many threads but occasional threads where there are heated debates and arguments happen should also be expected, particularly on controversial topics.

I see neither extreme as being attractive, i.e. everything is pleasant or everything is an argument.

And members who are sensitive or don't like arguments etc should avoid the Watercooler and Political forums. As far as I can see the Access forums are always polite.

Why should the few be allowed to take over an entire forum? Why can't those who like to argue keep their arguments to a few threads? Why is it that every subject must end in bickering?

as for the inevitable arguing, would you rather it be here in cyberspace where it does no harm, or out on the gaza strip, where people can actually get killed? oh wait...that's already happening...I meant to say: would you rather it be in real life in your own backyard? I think not hun! Enjoy it, because if the anger can't be poured out through the keyboard the only other outlet is out in the real world somewhere. let us still with the lesser of two evils

Oh Adam, do you honestly believe that this is the case? Firstly, getting involved in constant bickering like this only serves to fuel anger which in turn often does get let out in the real world. If not within families within the community.

I think this is misleading.

Yes a pleasant exchange of information can and should be had in many threads but occasional threads where there are heated debates and arguments happen should also be expected, particularly on controversial topics.

I see neither extreme as being attractive, i.e. everything is pleasant or everything is an argument.

That's fine , that is a balanced view but Mike was suggesting that we should always expect an argument else keep out of the watercooler.

Brian

Oh Adam, do you honestly believe that this is the case? Firstly, getting involved in constant bickering like this only serves to fuel anger which in turn often does get let out in the real world. If not within families within the community.

I agree with Adam, much as it shocks myself. I see no reason that the arguments and bickering could by at least some, and certainly for myself, be considered cathartic and even enjoyable.

If heated debates and argument are not your thing then I can understand why people would choose not to be involved but I don't see why the preferences of those who do not enjoy arguments and heated debated should supercede those who do enjoy such things.

The arguments and debating should undoubtedly be restricted to particular threads which are by their nature going to be controversial, e.g. poltics and religion, and not be allowed to enter uncontroversial threads e.g. restraunt reviews.

That's fine , that is a balanced view but Mike was suggesting that we should always expect an argument else keep out of the watercooler.

Brian

I was giving Mike the benefit of the doubt that he hadn't sufficiently articulated his view and that it wasn't substantially different from my own, but your interpretation of his post is certainly how it reads literally.

I agree with Adam, much as it shocks myself. I see no reason that the arguments and bickering could by at least some, and certainly for myself, be considered cathartic and even enjoyable.

If heated debates and argument are not your thing then I can understand why people would choose not to be involved but I don't see why the preferences of those who do not enjoy arguments and heated debated should supercede those who do enjoy such things.

The arguments and debating should undoubtedly be restricted to particular threads which are by their nature going to be controversial, e.g. poltics and religion, and not be allowed to enter uncontroversial threads e.g. restraunt reviews.

:D:D Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! :D :D I think that's what I was trying to say. Tear chunks out of each other by all means, especially if you are invited to do so, but not when there is no call for it.

:D:D Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! :D :D I think that's what I was trying to say. Tear chunks out of each other by all means, especially if you are invited to do so, but not when there is no call for it.

Such vague and subjective rules of when someone is invited to do so and when there is a call for it - and the fact these "rules" are sometimes enforced and other times not - is exactly what got the site into this position in the first place.

Rather than the solution, you have just described the problem.

Such vague and subjective rules of when someone is invited to do so and when there is a call for it - and the fact these "rules" are sometimes enforced and other times not - is exactly what got the site into this position in the first place.

Rather than the solution, you have just described the problem.

I wasn't offering "rules", we are all grown ups here, we surely do not need a class monitor to keep us in tow. I was offering some suggestions. If, what I did was to describe the problem rather than the solution, then I'd love to hear your views on what the solution is.

However, as this is my thread, I have to put my contraints on your reply.

1) Replies only in pink fluffy vocabulary
2) All rude words must be replaced by the word balley as I do think that's ever so pucker
3) All name calling must be complimentary

Failure to adhere to these rules WILL result in me crying in the corner for hours because a stranger doesn't like me :p

Oh, and a new rule, all spammers will be reported, sorry Amerson, but your comment really did seem like spam, I hope you won't be offended by my opinion.

[pinkandfluffly]Aye, reported too - that's the third ad from a first time poster today![/pinkandfluffy]

I wasn't offering "rules", we are all grown ups here, we surely do not need a class monitor to keep us in tow. I was offering some suggestions. If, what I did was to describe the problem rather than the solution, then I'd love to hear your views on what the solution is.

However, as this is my thread, I have to put my contraints on your reply.

1) Replies only in pink fluffy vocabulary
2) All rude words must be replaced by the word balley as I do think that's ever so pucker
3) All name calling must be complimentary

Failure to adhere to these rules WILL result in me crying in the corner for hours because a stranger doesn't like me :p

Yep we do, everything everwhere, needs organising and controlling by someone.

There is no control here.

I suggested you could at least control / manage the responses to your own thread like Bob did. The world hasn't ended cos the restaurant thread was cleaned up a little.

Its like the real world a heckler or spoiler to your conversation would soon be removed from the conversation , not usually by the authorities, but you would be able to do it yourself.

Why not allow that - rather then enforce that we should put up with anything someone decides to throw at us.

If Bobs continued deleting annoyed someone - they would just not respond to him in future.

Simple.

Without the above rules - ie the thread starter is allowed to delete troublesome posts - the restaurant thread would be as unruly as the rest of the forum.

If the owner or mods can't allow that and control stuff reasonably, rather than waste everyones time, they should be honest say its out of control and shut down the non access bit. Its not even needed for the main point of the forum.

We are trying to get Jon to okay a very short list of rules so that we have a specific guide so we can then be CONSISTENT in how we moderate the board. But he may be on holiday or something because we're still waiting to hear back from him.

So, we are trying to make it more consistent so that all are treated the same. We are not looking to squash arguments in the forums, including the Watercooler, but instead prevent personal attacks from becoming the norm and to keep things from getting too far out of hand. We all live by social rules imposed by society and there is no reason why we can't have a few basic ones here.

We are trying to get Jon to okay a very short list of rules so that we have a specific guide so we can then be CONSISTENT in how we moderate the board. But he may be on holiday or something because we're still waiting to hear back from him.

So, we are trying to make it more consistent so that all are treated the same. We are not looking to squash arguments in the forums, including the Watercooler, but instead prevent personal attacks from becoming the norm and to keep things from getting too far out of hand. We all live by social rules imposed by society and there is no reason why we can't have a few basic ones here.

At least a solution is being sought. Hopefully whatever is introduced will work for the good of everyone.

Ta

I believe it will. I think it'll provide a much better understanding between members and staff here on what everyone's expectations are. They are more of a guideline of expectations for EVERYONE than rules. We're certainly not out to stop the "friendly" debating that happens in the non-Access forums. We just want the blatant abuse of posting to end. Everyone know who they can have a friendly debate with and who they can't. If you post a joking comment about someone you know you get along with, that person most likely won't report it and you'll have nothing to worry about. If you post a rude remark about someone you know you don't get along with, expect a report and a warning. We can all be adults here right?

Oh Adam, do you honestly believe that this is the case? Firstly, getting involved in constant bickering like this only serves to fuel anger which in turn often does get let out in the real world. If not within families within the community.

think of it this way hun...the more problems you have the more alive you are. my dad always said that. strange isn't it? I never thought too much of that, but when I realized that if the government didn't argue we'd all probably be enslaved cuz they'd have nothing to do! At least for the rulers Jan, as long as they keep the arguments going we little people can go on living without interuption....:D

I've read this thread, as well as
"This site is ever increasingly becoming a joke..."

People seem to be arguing the fact that people shouldn't be able to delete off topic or offensive posts from their own thread.

To sum up the point for my own clearification, are these people basically trying to argue their right to be a prick?
I'm all for making inteligent arguments. and to be honnest Ajetrumpet is right, sort of... having people with different opinions is what makes life interesting. But shouldn't the points be valid, and on topic. (the green energy is a crock thread is a pretty decent example of people with different opinions making good arguments)

But what's wrong with giving people the ability to delete topics where person X brings up Person Y's post from a year ago regarding a complete different topic. Or calls person Y a name.. with no real point other than to be a prick.. I don't see how that can even be considered "interesting"

It reminds me of a quote I read one time in regards to two people on a Forum that were basically just name calling.. the poster said.
"Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special Olympics, sure you might win, but your still retarded"
(Granted it's an insensitve comment to those that may have family who have competed in special olympics. Personally I have volunteered as a trainer in the past. but, i will say, there is a point to be had there, regardless of how crudely it was stated)

It reminds me of a quote I read one time in regards to two people on a Forum that were basically just name calling.. the poster said.
"Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special Olympics, sure you might win, but your still retarded"
(Granted it's an insensitve comment to those that may have family who have competed in special olympics. Personally I have volunteered as a trainer in the past. but, i will say, there is a point to be had there, regardless of how crudely it was stated)

Sad that you feel you have to qualify your statement by profusely denying any affinity with those who are construed to be politically incorrect. You know that people would automatically "tar you with the same brush" had you not, yet all you were doing was offering a quote. In my opinion the world has gone mad with sugar coating what we say in fear that our words may mortally wound another.

There, I've just contradicted my own thread. Drat, and double drat!!! ;)

I agree with Adam, much as it shocks myself. I see no reason that the arguments and bickering could by at least some, and certainly for myself, be considered cathartic and even enjoyable.

If heated debates and argument are not your thing then I can understand why people would choose not to be involved but I don't see why the preferences of those who do not enjoy arguments and heated debated should supercede those who do enjoy such things.

The arguments and debating should undoubtedly be restricted to particular threads which are by their nature going to be controversial, e.g. poltics and religion, and not be allowed to enter uncontroversial threads e.g. restraunt reviews.


Pretty well much agree with all of this.

I think the recent attacks on the mods are a symptom of people not respecting your point in the third paragraph.

Individuals shouldn't be allowed to post whatever they want, wherever they want. Bickering, sarcasm and baiting can have their place but then so should normal discussions without them.

IMO, the "dictatorship" wailings have been a lament by those who want to control the tone of the boards for themselves.

Sad that you feel you have to qualify your statement by profusely denying any affinity with those who are construed to be politically incorrect. You know that people would automatically "tar you with the same brush" had you not, yet all you were doing was offering a quote. In my opinion the world has gone mad with sugar coating what we say in fear that our words may mortally wound another.

There, I've just contradicted my own thread. Drat, and double drat!!! ;)

It's true, i'm not a fan of political correctness, generally i hate people that are offended on behalf of someone that ought to be. with this particular example, I wasn't so much "profusley denying affinity with political incorrectness" as much as i was stating that I have volunteered as a trainer for a kid competing in the special olympics and i firmly believe that the quote is somewhat insensitive. I have no problem with the word "retard" that aspect doesn't bug me in the least, and if people wish to be offended by that.. so be it. My problem really was with the impication that being retarded is a bad thing. I mean, these kids, a lot of them live VERY happy lives. If you spend time with them, it can almost make you envious. I have never seen a kid in the DC class have any disagreements with another kid about politics, healthcare, war, anything really..

ignorance is bliss...

So i do agree that political correctness is stupid.

This is why I want to come back as a cat... preferably a non-neutered one. :eek:

Whatever happened to the Golden Rule?

Would you be proud to show your Mother and God your posts? You should be.

Please submit to your pray lists:

INSERT INTO AWF ( Members(ajetrumpet).Heart ) SELECT [Love and Kindness] FROM God's.Heart;

Signing off ...

Would you be proud to show your Mother and God your posts? God sees everything, so I'm told.

I bet you didn't get an infraction for this insult mr. perfect. there is more nonsense that goes on around this forum than there is in the real world. unbelieveable....

btw dude, the IRS classified me as a felon thanks to your submission last year. I would take a shot at you for that, but I'm a nice guy so I won't. Plus i wouldn't want you to lose any clients over the deal....pffff :rolleyes: I'm all about helping your image. :D

This is why I want to come back as a cat... preferably a non-neutered one. :eek:

non-neutered cats can lead a hard and frustrating life, fighting over females or being fought over if female, no a neutered cat spoilt rotten by some lovely woman owner, thats the life, mind you I'm almost there now. :D

Brian

Yeah, but the whole cutting special areas thing concerns me.