Has the time now come when British english and American english have diverged so much that American english should be regarded as a separate language known as American? After all Norwegian and Swedish are separate languages but are mutually understood and have many similarities.

The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter.
There will be growing publikenthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.

Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.

Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.

By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensi bl riten styl.

Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.

Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.

If zis mad you smil, pleas pas on to oza pepl

Has the time now come when British english and American english have diverged so much that American english should be regarded as a separate language known as American?

Regarded in what way? I've already seen distinctions between American English, British English, and I recall even going to a website before where "English" had a Canadian flag next to it. Is that Canadian English?

Honestly, I don't think it much matters.

David, your response is tongue-in-cheek - and very nice, I might add... but some USA forums are almost incomprehensible already due to text-speak.

David, your response is tongue-in-cheek - and very nice, I might add... but some USA forums are almost incomprehensible already due to text-speak.

Ditto, it's really bad.

I notice a lot of Australians use American style English on Australian forums. For example "ass" instead of "arse" and the work bloke being used the way Americans use dude such as "look bloke you don't know what you are talking about".

Here are a couple of forums where there is virtually never any text speak and no eight line paragraphs without punctuation:D


http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php)

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php)

Just to consider... if we were to resurrect good ol' Bill, he'd be aghast at the barbaric language, whether British English, American English or any one of many "English" over the world, can only be perceived as severely bastardized English he knows and speak.

But then again, in his days, grammar books were unheard of.

Regarded in what way? I've already seen distinctions between American English, British English, and I recall even going to a website before where "English" had a Canadian flag next to it. Is that Canadian English?

Honestly, I don't think it much matters.
If we actually recognised them as different though related languages we might stop the nit-picking on this forum when an americanism irritates certainly members living in England.

I doubt it, actually. In order for them to nitpick, they'd have to have a fixed definition of what English should be and deny that it is a living language and thus evolving. There has to be a notion, however absurd, that there exists a "pure English" and all derivates are simply deviant. Of course, such thing has never existed and won't until English joins Latin in leagues of dead languages.

I'd venture to guess they'd sooner nitpick on Bill's poor English before admitting that it can't be fixed, and grammar may be actually more of conventions than absolute rules.

Adam, that site must have been in Canadian English if it has a maple leaf next to it.

Really it does not matter to most people on a forum as long as the person who is trying to communicate is understood, otherwise they will be either chastized or ignored.
It seems to be such a huge issue with some people rehashing grammar and spelling constantly with no or little effect. Obviously their attempts at teaching are ineffective or being ignored so it might be time to move on to whining about something else. Unless they otherwise have nothing to say but feel like they have to say something to validate themselves.

If we actually recognised them as different though related languages we might stop the nit-picking on this forum when an americanism irritates certainly members living in England.

Sounds like wishful thinking to me. I enjoy a well-written forum post more than most, but mistakes happen. I don't really see the purpose in correcting every mistake, especially if it was obvious that it was a mistake.

I would hesitate to lend legitamacy to certain slang terms or the dreaded textspeak, but I'm cognizant of the fact that it is due to the lack of desire on my part to learn those methods of communication rather than an issue of language purity.

Sounds like wishful thinking to me. I enjoy a well-written forum post more than most, but mistakes happen. I don't really see the purpose in correcting every mistake, especially if it was obvious that it was a mistake.

I would hesitate to lend legitamacy to certain slang terms or the dreaded textspeak, but I'm cognizant of the fact that it is due to the lack of desire on my part to learn those methods of communication rather than an issue of language purity.
I heard on the radio this morning that teachers are beginning to see textspeak in the papers turned in by students, especially "lol" and smiley faces at the end of sentences. Most seem to be marking them as errors and lowering grades. My guess is that such incidents will become so commonplace that they will become an accepted part of the language before long.

bastardized English

Erm oops :p but it makes a perfect example of what I hate about the use of American English, MS Office still insists that the American English spelling is correct despite all settings being British English.

IMO America makes sense considering the differences in spelling and pronunciation, I hate British English and American English, English is English :mad:

I heard on the radio this morning that teachers are beginning to see textspeak in the papers turned in by students, especially "lol" and smiley faces at the end of sentences. Most seem to be marking them as errors and lowering grades. My guess is that such incidents will become so commonplace that they will become an accepted part of the language before long.

Not if I were their teacher, or their boss.

Erm oops :p but it makes a perfect example of what I hate about the use of American English, MS Office still insists that the American English spelling is correct despite all settings being British English.

IMO America makes sense considering the differences in spelling and pronunciation, I hate British English and American English, English is English :mad:

And it's a great language, great in the sense...

I looked it up. Even the word “great” demonstrates the vastness of our language.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/great

In almost every way you measure it, English is the best candidate for the future of the human race.

A language of inclusion will almost certainly have growing pangs along the way.

Ok something to ponder (without googling) which English word when spoken can have 12 different meanings?

American English is a lazy and slovenly way of speaking and writing English. Textspeak is even worse, I always write texts with correct punctuation and words.

I notice now that people refer to "you guys" as being male or female. It's bad enough using the word "guy", but to use it in relation to a females is just stupid.

I could go on but I'm tired and cheesed off with it all. Do what the hell you like, just don't use it around me.

Col

American English is a lazy and slovenly way of speaking and writing English. Textspeak is even worse, I always write texts with correct punctuation and words.

I notice now that people refer to "you guys" as being male or female. It's bad enough using the word "guy", but to use it in relation to a females is just stupid.

I could go on but I'm tired and cheesed off with it all. Do what the hell you like, just don't use it around me.

Col

You guys get yer panties in a twist over nothing, Col. Jus' chill. K?

American English is a lazy and slovenly way of speaking and writing English. Textspeak is even worse, I always write texts with correct punctuation and words.

I notice now that people refer to "you guys" as being male or female. It's bad enough using the word "guy", but to use it in relation to a females is just stupid.

I could go on but I'm tired and cheesed off with it all. Do what the hell you like, just don't use it around me.

Col

Col,

Why do you persist in nonsensical ravings?

Even if you are from a basically homogenous country, that doesn’t mean the rest of us are.

Come on Col, painting America with a broad brush, after years of being properly instructed, makes you look obtuse.

Certainly we would not judge all Britts based on their ambassador here?

It's not his fault. It's the old hypocritical viewpoint where someone generalizes an entire country in the exact same fashion they accuse the people of that country as being.

It's not his fault.

It's his fault alrite. Let's be having ourselves a lynchin'...yeehaaaaw!

Do what the hell you like, just don't use it around me.

Col

LOLZ ure momma is uber failz

It's not his fault. It's the old hypocritical viewpoint where someone generalizes an entire country in the exact same fashion they accuse the people of that country as being.
Besides, if he were to cease and desist, I would have no one to bait, and I am becoming a master at that activity.

WOW - that rant was up to par with Charlie Sheen or Muammar Gaddafi ;)

American English is a lazy and slovenly way of speaking and writing English.

As much as I dislike the fact we have American English I wouldn't agree it's lazy or slovenly it simply evolved from English.

As we know lot of American English words are different to English in spelling and pronunciation but if you look into the origins of the word aluminium it was original spelt in English as aluminum and pronounced that way. When it made it's way over to the US is became aluminium it then over time became reversed - iirc it was at the time the aluminium trade began. Go figure - language is an odd beast.

Sometimes it is difficult for an American to understand British (and many times Canadian) spelling of certain words that seem to be pronounced the same as we do:
Centre (why is that not prounounced "cen-tree"?), behaviour, checque all come to mind.

The English language, regardless of the native speaker or writer, is still one of the hardest languages to learn because of all of the differences in sounds produced by the same combination of letters. I would hate to learn English as my second language, be it American or British.

The English language, regardless of the native speaker or writer, is still one of the hardest languages to learn because of all of the differences in sounds produced by the same combination of letters. I would hate to learn English as my second language, be it American or British.

Honestly, English as a second language is really not that hard, if you put aside the freaking "th". That thing is unpronounceable. Way fewer grammar rules than French (my first language).

If you think there is a big difference between American and British English, you should see (or actually hear) the difference between France's and Quebec(Canada)'s French. Quebec people that goes to France are sometimes better understood speaking English, go figure...

People writing in English makes way fewer mistakes (not typos) than people writing in French. People over here want to pass laws to protect French language, yet they cannot write it properly!

But there are still languages out there that almost make perfect sense. There are specific combinations of letters and pronounciations that are almost universal. Spanish and Japanese have been especially easy to learn, verbally anyway. Now writing Japanese with their three written languages, that can be more of a challenge.

If you would like a difficult language to learn, try Gaeilge (Irish Gaelic). Spoken words rarely resemble the written version. Spellings can totally change depending on the word before and/or the word after.

Besides, if he were to cease and desist, I would have no one to bait, and I am becoming a master at that activity.

You're not even off the starting blocks yet sonny.

Come back when you think you might be.

Col

You're not even off the starting blocks yet sonny.

Come back when you think you might be.

Col
Ah, the quarry rises yet again. Isn't fishing the most marvelous sport?

... if you look into the origins of the word aluminium it was original spelt in English as aluminum and pronounced that way. When it made it's way over to the US is became aluminium it then over time became reversed - iirc it was at the time the aluminium trade began. Go figure - language is an odd beast.

The element was originally named Aluminum by Humphrey Davey but was changed to Aluminium to conform to the -ium suffix used in many elements.

It remained fairly obscure as it was not practical to make until the availability of cheap electricity. I expect that its makers adopted the older name when it went into commercial production in the US and popularised this spelling which is why the US officially reverted the name in 1925.

Honestly, English as a second language is really not that hard, if you put aside the freaking "th". That thing is unpronounceable.

The "th" comes originally from theta and passed to English from one of its ancestors, Old German. German subsequently supplanted it with "d" so "the" became "de" etc. This change began in High German and took several centuries to reach Low German.

The temptation to substitute is quite clear within English where "de" or "da" is substituted for "the" by some. It is particularly tempting when speaking at speed because "th" requires the tongue to move quite a long from the position used for many other syllables.

The blend of the "th" and "d" is also evident in Spanish where the letter "d" has a much softer pronunciation with a tendency toward the "th" sound. My surname includes "th" and when I was in Peru nobody would even attempt to pronounce it until I changed the spelling, replacing the "th" with "d".

I was helping a Chinese person improve their pronunciation and realised that the "th" was a big problem. Their worry was with the embarrassment of allowing the tongue to come out so far. Once he covered his mouth with his hand he could speak it perfectly.

People over here want to pass laws to protect French language, yet they cannot write it properly!

English is so widespread because it adopted words from so many languages providing multiple words for much the same concept but carrying the subtle differences from their origin. French origin words are used to in English to convey a sense of the exoctic or formality such as in "cuisine" versus "cooking".

"Protecting" languages stagnates them and overlooks the fact that until recently they had always been dynamic.

Also as I like to remind those who criticise US English, the spelling of the word "color" passed to the US before dictionaries were invented when this spelling was still common among the relatively few literates at the time.

Ultimatley British English adoped the French incluenced "colour" (from "coleur")

The "th" comes originally from theta and passed to English from one of its ancestors, Old German. German subsequently supplanted it with "d" so "the" became "de" etc. This change began in High German and took several centuries to reach Low German.

The temptation to substitute is quite clear within English where "de" or "da" is substituted for "the" by some. It is particularly tempting when speaking at speed because "th" requires the tongue to move quite a long from the position used for many other syllables.

The blend of the "th" and "d" is also evident in Spanish where the letter "d" has a much softer pronunciation with a tendency toward the "th" sound. My surname includes "th" and when I was in Peru nobody would even attempt to pronounce it until I changed the spelling, replacing the "th" with "d".

I was helping a Chinese person improve their pronunciation and realised that the "th" was a big problem. Their worry was with the embarrassment of allowing the tongue to come out so far. Once he covered his mouth with his hand he could speak it perfectly.



English is so widespread because it adopted words from so many languages providing multiple words for much the same concept but carrying the subtle differences from their origin. French origin words are used to in English to convey a sense of the exoctic or formality such as in "cuisine" versus "cooking".

"Protecting" languages stagnates them and overlooks the fact that until recently they had always been dynamic.

Also as I like to remind those who criticise US English, the spelling of the word "color" passed to the US before dictionaries were invented when this spelling was still common among the relatively few literates at the time.

Ultimatley British English adoped the French incluenced "colour" (from "coleur")

Exactly, so American English is the only true English. Silly Britts, always thinking that they have a global empire.

Here is a good example of what is so good about English.

Translate "the" from English at Babylon (http://translation.babylon.com) to:

German: das; dem; den; der;

Spanish: el, la, los, las;

Exactly, so American English is the only true English. Silly Britts, always thinking that they have a global empire.

No. Both modern US English and modern British English are derived from 16th century English. Both are valid English variants as is Australian English and several others.

No. Both modern US English and modern British English are derived from 16th century English. Both are valid English variants as is Australian English and several others.

The thing that makes Aussie and American English differant from the English version, is the say the tendency to uses words like 'awesome' to describe the most banal things, from a cheese sandwich, a gig , right the way up to where it should be used.

Thus destroying the richness of the language and nuance , and making communication more difficult.

Yes English is a rich language, always changing and borrowing from others. But as an American or Aussie speaks it - who would know?

The thing that makes Aussie and American English differant from the English version, is the say the tendency to uses words like 'awesome' to describe the most banal things, from a cheese sandwich, a gig , right the way up to where it should be used.

The strength of superlatives is dynamic. They go through phases where they become common and other superlatives replace them. I supsect that the British usage lags behind other variants in this aspect Pommes are so difficult to impress.

Thus destroying the richness of the language and nuance , and making communication more difficult.?
That is a silly generalization.

Yes English is a rich language, always changing and borrowing from others.
English doesn't borrow. We take words for keeps.:D

The strength of superlatives is dynamic. They go through phases where they become common and other superlatives replace them. I supsect that the British usage lags behind other variants in this aspect Pommes are so difficult to impress.


That is a silly generalization.


English doesn't borrow. We take words for keeps.:D

I agree - that the British are unlikely to call a sandwich awesome, or a gig even - but at least with what they do say, you know what they mean.

If an Aussie told me a gig was awesome - frankly - its so prevalent, to describe anything above the admitedly terrible, I would have no idea if it was a really a good show or not.

If thats not destroying the language - I dont know what is.

There are many differences in meaning between English and American. for example Bum means different things on either side of the atlantic, as do many other words like pavement, fanny, pants etc. I am sure we could find many more examples with a little thought.

My original point was not that one variant was superior to another - IMO that is as silly as saying German is better than French or Italian - but that they are in fact very similar but different languages and that it might be better to recognise this in the names we give them.

For those that would like to investigate the Australian version there was a bock called "Lets stalk Strine" by Afferbeck Lauder which provided an amusing insight into Australian usage.

There are many differences in meaning between English and American. for example Bum means different things on either side of the atlantic, as do many other words like pavement, fanny, pants etc. I am sure we could find many more examples with a little thought.



I'd like to suggest bumming a fag.

In the Americas we are participating in another major evolution of English, and it will serve to further distance us from the Queens English.

There is a strong potential that American English is evolving into Spanglish a combination of English and American (Both Americas) Spanish.

I found Quebecois to be a hard language to learn because it s more Franglais then French.
I notice a big difference between England English and American English but I really dont see why people get so bent out of shape over it. As long as people understand the communication then it really does not make a difference. Some people will have to focus on learning more languages anyhow as the world economy is shifting, time to stop bitching about the spelling of 'colour' and learn some Hindi or Mandarin.

Honestly, English as a second language is really not that hard, if you put aside the freaking "th". That thing is unpronounceable. Way fewer grammar rules than French (my first language).

If you think there is a big difference between American and British English, you should see (or actually hear) the difference between France's and Quebec(Canada)'s French. Quebec people that goes to France are sometimes better understood speaking English, go figure...

People writing in English makes way fewer mistakes (not typos) than people writing in French. People over here want to pass laws to protect French language, yet they cannot write it properly!

The strength of superlatives is dynamic. They go through phases where they become common and other superlatives replace them. I supsect that the British usage lags behind other variants in this aspect Pommes are so difficult to impress.


Yes, but then we have high standards.

Brian

Yes, but then we have high standards.

Brian

Really? I've heard tales of your restaurants.

If you really want to confuse people, just remind them that in the USA, we park our cars in a driveway and drive our cares on a parkway.

Do so from a distance in case you invoke a head explosion.

... drive our cares on a parkway.

So, that's where the boulevard of broken dreams come from, then.

:D

Really? I've heard tales of your restaurants.


We've eaten in yours!

We've eaten in yours!

And which ones would that be?

Where I come from on the Texas Gulf Coast I think you will find many restaurants with cuisine that would match any in the world. Maybe not for their six star architecture or elegance, but if what you seek is good food.

Well sister, that is what you shall find.

One of the advantages to having a multicultural country is the variety of women, food, and music, just to name a few.

Maybe you Britts should give it a try, there’s nothing wrong with your women, of course, or your music, but your food sure could use some improvement. hehehe

San Antonio has some amazing restaurants! I can't wait to go back.

San Antonio has some amazing restaurants! I can't wait to go back.
In all my travels in Europe the worst food (generally) I came across was in Northern Ireland (UK). Everything was overcooked, underseasoned and generally unhealthy. What kind of a meal would deep fried chips smothered in baked beans be? Of course, then there is haggis in Scotland...

In all my travels in Europe the worst food (generally) I came across was in Northern Ireland (UK). Everything was overcooked, underseasoned and generally unhealthy. What kind of a meal would deep fried chips smothered in baked beans be?...
MacDonalds:p
and who in their right mind would eat haggis anyway:eek:

I noticed that Thales did not say that he had eaten in any of our restaurants, so has he?

I've not eaten in loads of countries in the world but the 20ish that I have eaten in have had good and bad, well actually we didn't eat well in Israel but my daughter did so it just shows that visitors should not be too quick to judge.

Brian

I noticed that Thales did not say that he had eaten in any of our restaurants, so has he?

I've not eaten in loads of countries in the world but the 20ish that I have eaten in have had good and bad, well actually we didn't eat well in Israel but my daughter did so it just shows that visitors should not be too quick to judge.

Brian
I haven't been to London since 2006 but there are some really good restaurants there. Those are mostly the up-scale "International cuisine" type. From my experience the chippers and local restaurants and take-aways still have the same bland, greasy and overcooked food that has been traditional English fare.

and who in their right mind would eat haggis anyway:eek:Nothing wrong with a good haggis with neaps and tatties. Not forgetting a dram or two of whisky to accompany it. :)

For the benefit of those not acquainted with the scottish dialect neaps = turnips and tatties = potatoes

I noticed that Thales did not say that he had eaten in any of our restaurants, so has he?

I've not eaten in loads of countries in the world but the 20ish that I have eaten in have had good and bad, well actually we didn't eat well in Israel but my daughter did so it just shows that visitors should not be too quick to judge.

Brian

Hello Brian,

As I said earlier, I have heard about British Cuisine, not expereinced it. I would love to try it though.

I haven't been to London since 2006 but there are some really good restaurants there. Those are mostly the up-scale "International cuisine" type. From my experience the chippers and local restaurants and take-aways still have the same bland, greasy and overcooked food that has been traditional English fare.

Ah London, been there done the UK.

Seriously I will leave it to a southerner to defend London's local restaurants.
I don't do chippers and take aways so can't comment but we have good, indifferent and probably poor local restaurants. However it is worth remembering that peoples' opinions differ so I am always reluctant to promote any establishment.

Have a laugh at my expense.

in San Gimignano we got talking to the Italian on the next table in a restaurant, during the conversation he moaned at the quality of his hotel, we said ours was good. We also said hello to him the next morning at breakfast. :o

In my defence his was the chauffered stretch Limo in the car park.

Brian

In my defence...

That's another word that differs in "American English." We spell it "defense."

I found this article quite informative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#-ce.2C_-se

For my fellow Americans who may have been confused at some terms in my last post:

chipper = a place that mainly sells fish and chips. Usually they are sold rolled up in a greasy newspaper cone or brown paper cone. How healthy is that???

take-away = take-out restaurant. Not like McDonalds, these places rarely have a place to sit and eat. Like our old "drive-ins" but you can't drive in.

You did not know that I am bilingual, did you?

It's the dialects that kill you.
I have heard both Brits and Scots that I had no clue what they were saying.

But I had the same problem last time I was in Boston also.

It's the dialects that kill you.
I have heard both Brits and Scots that I had no clue what they were saying.

But I had the same problem last time I was in Boston also.
I know what you mean. I found the same problem in Dallas when I was last there. :)

I was in London yesterday.
I noticed the restaurants in the West End are all sushi, Mexican, Italian etc. - not a decent greasy spoon or chippy anywhere! I had to buy a sandwich in the end from Tesco's. Sushi? yuk - Japanese muck.

Col

I am not a fan of seafood, which is strange being that I live in Florida. I completely agree with you on disliking sushi.

I am not a fan of seafood, which is strange being that I live in Florida. I completely agree with you on disliking sushi.

Well if you don't like seafood you are not going to like sushi, I am and do, I think the one in Japan had the edge over Liverpool.

BTW Vass I also enjoyed dining by the river in San Antonio but it was hardly Haute Cuisine, but thats great as I don't like pretentious food or restaurants.

Brian

It's the dialects that kill you.
I have heard both Brits and Scots that I had no clue what they were saying.

.

Don't panic we have the same problem, I'm sure its the same the world over.

Brian

I heard this about a Frenchman and an Englishman. The Englishman was boasting about their military victories for the French.

Englishman: "we are victorious over the French because we pray to God."

Frenchman: "We also pray to God."

Englishman: "But we pray in English."

I must say that today I am extremely proud of my fellow Americans. It does not matter where or what the need, it seems America is there first, with the most and without expectations. Hardly had the dust settled from the tragic 8.9 earthquake before we were steaming to Japan's aid. My neighbor, who raises and trains search and recovery dogs, had her bags packed, airline booked and dogs ready to go within 8 hours. She is there now.

You may decry our politics or even they way we talk, but you cannot fault the true generosity and spirit of the American people.

And which ones would that be?

Where I come from on the Texas Gulf Coast I think you will find many restaurants with cuisine that would match any in the world. Maybe not for their six star architecture or elegance, but if what you seek is good food.

Well sister, that is what you shall find.

One of the advantages to having a multicultural country is the variety of women, food, and music, just to name a few.

Maybe you Britts should give it a try, there’s nothing wrong with your women, of course, or your music, but your food sure could use some improvement. hehehe



You think the UK isnt multicultural?

I must say that today I am extremely proud of my fellow Americans. It does not matter where or what the need, it seems America is there first, with the most and without expectations. Hardly had the dust settled from the tragic 8.9 earthquake before we were steaming to Japan's aid. My neighbor, who raises and trains search and recovery dogs, had her bags packed, airline booked and dogs ready to go within 8 hours. She is there now.

You may decry our politics or even they way we talk, but you cannot fault the true generosity and spirit of the American people.

Its the bragging - rather than quitely getting on with it we dislike.

Its the bragging - rather than quitely getting on with it we dislike.

How many Americans have you heard bragging? :rolleyes:

Well if you don't like seafood you are not going to like sushi, I am and do, I think the one in Japan had the edge over Liverpool.

BTW Vass I also enjoyed dining by the river in San Antonio but it was hardly Haute Cuisine, but thats great as I don't like pretentious food or restaurants.

Brian

The river food wasn't the best. I actually only ate at one place on the river. The city itself is filled with non-chained restaurants that are ALWAYS busy. That's what I loved about it. I don't think I ate at a single bad place while I was there.

How many Americans have you heard bragging? :rolleyes:

So far 100 % of those who have mentioned it. Or alternatively - noone has mentioned it without bragging.
.

How many Americans have you heard bragging? :rolleyes:
198,000,000:p

Its the bragging - rather than quitely getting on with it we dislike.

Being proud of your fellow citizens is certainly not bragging. Bragging is "excessive or unwarranted pride in an accomplishment, feature or act" and the pride I feel for these unselfish actions of my fellow citizens is certainly not excessive nor unwarranted.

However your pride in their actions could be construed as "excessive or unwarranted" especially as you were not involved in their actions but seemed to be trying to share the credit.

Being proud of your fellow citizens is certainly not bragging. Bragging is "excessive or unwarranted pride in an accomplishment, feature or act" and the pride I feel for these unselfish actions of my fellow citizens is certainly not excessive nor unwarranted.

The fact yopu only mentioned Americans and put them seemingly first with most - does indeed make your remarks excessive and unwarranted. Especially given the task undertaken.

The fact yopu only mentioned Americans and put them seemingly first with most - does indeed make your remarks excessive and unwarranted. Especially given the task undertaken.

Methinks I read a large measure of sour grapes and long-seated resentment in your response. Someday perhaps you will find a reason to feel rightful pride and admiration in the selfless actions of your fellow citizens. I will belabor this point no further. Additional moaning and groaning on your part will only reinforce those facts.

Methinks I read a large measure of sour grapes and long-seated resentment in your response. Someday perhaps you will find a reason to feel rightful pride and admiration in the selfless actions of your fellow citizens. I will belabor this point no further. Additional moaning and groaning on your part will only reinforce those facts.

I'm sorry Chipper but I think that is unwarrented. It is true that America is generous in these circumstances, although I did not read of their involvement in Christchurch, however it was the wording of your original statement that caused offence.

America is closer to Japan so one would expect it to be first, although I did read of a German team being there the day after it happened.

America is bigger, so one would not be surprised if it supplied more.

For the record I believe that a team from Lancashire did a quick turnround after getting home from Christchurch, I suppose they needed clean undies and more dog biscuits.


Brian

Methinks I read a large measure of sour grapes and long-seated resentment in your response. Someday perhaps you will find a reason to feel rightful pride and admiration in the selfless actions of your fellow citizens. I will belabor this point no further. Additional moaning and groaning on your part will only reinforce those facts.

An apology would have done - for not to bother having mentioned the other 60 + nations doing their best, irrespective of their nationality. To then relegate their contibution to secondary and less -the fact you see nothing wrong with this - says it all.


I see some very brave and selfless individuals, not Britains, or Americans or Chinese or anything else and I dont care who arrived first with most - just that they are there, as quick as they could be, doing their best.

Back to the thread topic, the link below seems relevent, although I did spot the odd inconsistency.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365751/How-British-English-Americanisms-ARENT-taking-language-research-shows.html

I must say that today I am extremely proud of my fellow Americans. It does not matter where or what the need, it seems America is there first, with the most and without expectations. Hardly had the dust settled from the tragic 8.9 earthquake before we were steaming to Japan's aid.

Yeah, it is incredible. Much faster than they managed to get to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.

Yeah, it is incredible. Much faster than they managed to get to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.

I guess some folks always find the glass half empty when they talk about USA.

I guess some folks always find the glass half empty when they talk about USA.

I suspect Chippers comments on top of this from the British born , Aussie PM may have pushed him over the edge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K8CYsKr9XA

I guess she saw how well Tony Blair got paid for all the sucking up he does.

So far 100 % of those who have mentioned it. Or alternatively - noone has mentioned it without bragging.
.

That's just resentment on your part ‘cause we took away your little empire after the 2nd World War.

That's just resentment on your part ‘cause we took away your little empire after the 2nd World War.

The fact that its been explained what was offensive about the original remark - and you plough on regardless of others opionions on teh matter, would be a whole lot more accurate assessment.

But you keep going with the self-aggrandisement , if it makes you feel better. You are blind to how its perceived clearly.

But you keep going with the self-aggrandisement , if it makes you feel better. You are blind to how its perceived clearly.

Do you remember your explanations on why the US is heavily criticized?

I think you are demonstrating quite clearly how sincere 'frustration' and 'a bit of fun' are easily muddled. I'm fairly sure Thales was just having 'a bit of fun'.

Do you remember your explanations on why the US is heavily criticized?

I think you are demonstrating quite clearly how sincere 'frustration' and 'a bit of fun' are easily muddled. I'm fairly sure Thales was just having 'a bit of fun'.

Yes - and we on point 3 I think. The only one I said should really bother an American. However chipper couldn't give two monkeys bells could he, though its the only one he can control, but then complains that the US gets a bad press.

Thales may have been joking - you are correct - but as a follow up to Chipper - it doesn't come across to well.

The fact that its been explained what was offensive about the original remark - and you plough on regardless of others opionions on teh matter, would be a whole lot more accurate assessment.

But you keep going with the self-aggrandisement , if it makes you feel better. You are blind to how its perceived clearly.

I was kidding or rather inciting.

No one you will ever meet is more about the human race and not so much about National Pride.

National Pride is good as long as it promotes positive self actuation. Beyond that it causes war and strife, neither of which is useful.

Do you remember your explanations on why the US is heavily criticized?

I think you are demonstrating quite clearly how sincere 'frustration' and 'a bit of fun' are easily muddled. I'm fairly sure Thales was just having 'a bit of fun'.

You are correct, as usual.

So far 100 % of those who have mentioned it. Or alternatively - noone has mentioned it without bragging.
.

Really? Where? You seem about as ignorant, closed-minded, and one-sided as you claim the Americans are. :rolleyes:

This is directed at anyone in particular, but a thought for everyone. In modern times, pointless bickering over religious and political differences seems so trivial and pitiful during natural disasters such as this. If this happened closer to home, would you refuse to help or accept help from someone and their family just because they are Muslim, gay, black, American, Canadian, Republican, British, Irish, Asian, etc...? I wish humanity could band together and stop fighting useless wars on invisible entities or bickering over a "holier than though" status when our biggest and most unpredicable enemy is still nature. Nature doesn't discriminate and has no self-serving agenda based on any of these traits. When does humanity trump these ridiculous nationality, race, sexual preference, political, or religious cards? It's just so sickening that people would use this disaster to push a personal agenda or position on one of these non-essential issues in the grand sceme of humanity.

Sometimes I wish we did have an enemy from outside this world that would force us to work together. Maybe then, people would actually stop judging others based on their closed perception of what they are taught or read in the media. Yes, believe it or not, the media doesn't care about news, only making you read or watch it, so of course they are going to only show you stuff that will make you be quick to judge without any real research. Most of the time, they don't know what they are talking about.

I was kidding or rather inciting.

No one you will ever meet is more about the human race and not so much about National Pride.

National Pride is good as long as it promotes positive self actuation. Beyond that it causes war and strife, neither of which is useful.

I think the teams in Japan may be nore interested in the human story rather than the national one - shame a few Americans see it differantly.

How about the great Organization called NATO (Needs America To Operate)?

Really? Where? You seem about as ignorant, closed-minded, and one-sided as you claim the Americans are. :rolleyes:

This is directed at anyone in particular, but a thought for everyone. In modern times, pointless bickering over religious and political differences seems so trivial and pitiful during natural disasters such as this. If this happened closer to home, would you refuse to help or accept help from someone and their family just because they are Muslim, gay, black, American, Canadian, Republican, British, Irish, Asian, etc...? I wish humanity could band together and stop fighting useless wars on invisible entities or bickering over a "holier than though" status when our biggest and most unpredicable enemy is still nature. Nature doesn't discriminate and has no self-serving agenda based on any of these traits. When does humanity trump these ridiculous nationality, race, sexual preference, political, or religious cards? It's just so sickening that people would use this disaster to push a personal agenda or position on one of these non-essential issues in the grand sceme of humanity.

Sometimes I wish we did have an enemy from outside this world that would force us to work together. Maybe then, people would actually stop judging others based on their closed perception of what they are taught or read in the media. Yes, believe it or not, the media doesn't care about news, only making you read or watch it, so of course they are going to only show you stuff that will make you be quick to judge without any real research. Most of the time, they don't know what they are talking about.

I fully agree - which is why Chippers first and most comments are a little off key.

I'm sure Chipper thought his comments OK - but in an American English thread - I thought it worthy of saying how many outside the US would view the comments.
If Americans like chipper arent interested in how they are viewed - fair enough. But then dont complain when you are viewed negatively.

Of what exactly am I ignorant in this matter - I have only expressed how I feel about Chippers comments, which is entirely my view - but will be shared by many many - in my experience.

Back to the thread topic, the link below seems relevent, although I did spot the odd inconsistency.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365751/How-British-English-Americanisms-ARENT-taking-language-research-shows.html

What were the inconsitencies you spotted Brain. I fairly well conform to the British norm as found on the survey - though I thought a few of the norms found where a North/South thing as much as British/American.

Vorse/Varse/Vais was my Grandrads expression havin heard the differant requests for a vase in Waring and Gillows for 40 years, that was within the city.

One I remember was that in the text it said that for Brits Garage was like marriage, for US like mirage, but in the table Brits garaj and Yanks garidj that did not seem consistent to me I think the table is the wrong way round.

Brian

PS I agree with your British North/South comment

Ok something to ponder (without googling) which English word when spoken can have 12 different meanings?

Did we ever get the answer to this? I cheated and still dont know.

One I remember was that in the text it said that for Brits Garage was like marriage, for US like mirage, but in the table Brits garaj and Yanks garidj that did not seem consistent to me I think the table is the wrong way round.

Brian

I wondered on that one - to be honest a few of the pronunciations I could only work out cos I knwe what they were likely to be. But that ones odd at least yes.

Did we ever get the answer to this? I cheated and still dont know.

On the 12 different meanings it depends on what he means, great would be a great one to test it on, loads of meanings without considering grate and er grate.


Brian

You are correct, it does seem to be the wrong way around. We do pronounce "garage" similarly to "mirage," only the first "a" has more of an "ah" sound.

I think we also pronounce marriage and mirage differently, so I'm not sure how that may impact how we are reading each other's posts. :D

You are correct, it does seem to be the wrong way around. We do pronounce "garage" similarly to "mirage," only the first "a" has more of an "ah" sound.

The ge sound is sharper in garage.

The ge sound is sharper in garage.
You can't pronounce "multi" properly either:p

You can't pronounce "multi" properly either:p

Hard to figure that in a post.

Ok, time to step back in here. Regarding the multi meaning words, it used to be.... the spelling of it is not relevant, but the pronunciation is... "Rose" with 9 meanings, Such as Rose the flower, Rose past tense of risen, Ceiling Rose, Rows of seats, etc. Can't remember them all of hand.

The source of the information came from the Guinness World Records, which incidently I have every single copy ever published since its inception in 1955. That year they published 4 books I have all 4 first editions, the very first one came with a token that was glued into the spine which had a tear off perforation which you could hand in and get 5/- (five shilling) of the next book. This is still intact in my copy. Would love to know its value.

Anyway this is digression.

Another quicky couple though.

Question 1:
Which is the only word in the English language to have three sets of double letters next to each other?

Question 2:
Which word contains six letter i's in it?

No Googling;)

We got into a discussion on the English language the other night (oddly enough).

There are several words that have only one meaning (examples: coven and planchette).

Is there a word that defines words that have only one meaning? I was going to Google, but I couldn't figure out how to describe what I wanted.

A word with two meanings is an ambiguous word without context.

Hence the opposite would be unambiguous or monosamous.

Ok, time to step back in here. Regarding the multi meaning words, it used to be.... the spelling of it is not relevant, but the pronunciation is... "Rose" with 9 meanings, Such as Rose the flower, Rose past tense of risen, Ceiling Rose, Rows of seats, etc. Can't remember them all of hand.

The source of the information came from the Guinness World Records, which incidently I have every single copy ever published since its inception in 1955. That year they published 4 books I have all 4 first editions, the very first one came with a token that was glued into the spine which had a tear off perforation which you could hand in and get 5/- (five shilling) of the next book. This is still intact in my copy. Would love to know its value.

Anyway this is digression.

Another quicky couple though.

Question 1:
Which is the only word in the English language to have three sets of double letters next to each other?

Question 2:
Which word contains six letter i's in it?

No Googling;)

1) Bookkeeping - had this question on a Virgin Blue flight once - and got the prize of a chocolate bar.

I think an interesting one is to correctly spell restauranteur?

Question 2 reminds me of the crossword clue : Overburdened Postman

1) Bookkeeping - had this question on a Virgin Blue flight once - and got the prize of a chocolate bar.

I think an interesting one is to correctly spell restauranteur?

Question 2 reminds me of the crossword clue : Overburdened Postman

I can't even spell restaurant.

1) I think an interesting one is to correctly spell restauranteur?


Resterateur. That is English for you. Restaurant is entirely a French word anyway.

Tell me, why the verb "pronounce" become "pronunciation" as a noun? What is the "rule" here?

How about the crossword question

2 words 9 and 4

Clue: gseg

Criticising US English for variation in pronunciation, spelling and meaning actually neglects the fact that the Queen's English itself is inconsistent.

There are many words that have multiple meanings, pronunciation variants or alternative spelling even within a dialect.

Surely the Scots version is further removed from English than the US. For that matter one does not even need to go beyond Yorkshire to encounter near incomprehensible variants.

Resterateur. That is English for you. Restaurant is entirely a French word anyway.

Tell me, why the verb "pronounce" become "pronunciation" as a noun? What is the "rule" here?

You're making the spellings up as you go along? The way it used to be done?

I have one.

There is a 7 letter English word that contains 10 other English words without rearranging any of it's letters. What is it, and what are the 10 words it contains?

I have one.

There is a 7 letter English word that contains 10 other English words without rearranging any of it's letters. What is it, and what are the 10 words it contains?
OK I give up:) What's the answer:eek:

OK I give up:) What's the answer:eek:

I believe the answer lies in the question itself :rolleyes:

Or is it :confused:

therein: the, there, he, her, here, herein, ere, re, rein, in.

therein: the, there, he, her, here, herein, ere, re, rein, in.

Correct, but did you google? :p

I have not followed this thread entirely, but I have come across different words for the same thing depending on where you live in the USA. i.e. soda, soda pop, pop, coke.

Why would someone have to Google one of the more simple English puzzles?

Correct, but did you google? :p

Why would someone have to Google one of the more simple English puzzles?Because some of us couldn't work it out for ourselves.

therein: the, there, he, her, here, herein, ere, re, rein, in.

re is either an abbreviation or a name and therefore is surely not permitted.

Brian

re is either an abbreviation or a name and therefore is surely not permitted.

Brianre is in my Concise Oxford Dictionary as a preposition used in legal documents so I suppose we have to allow it

I joined an anagram group to help me learn this messed up language of English, it was one of the first few puzzles they gave me to try, so I knew the answer by previously solving it with the aid of a dictionary (paper copy not online).

Because some of us couldn't work it out for ourselves.

re is either an abbreviation or a name and therefore is surely not permitted.

Brian

I always took it as the ablative version of the Latin word res (http://www.math.osu.edu/~econrad/lang/ln5.html)

Yes believe it or not, I studied Latin at school. It's a stretch to define it as an English word on it's own. 're' only becomes the ablative version of 'res' when it is used within a Latin phrase. eg. 'In re'. The ablative being by,with or from the word being referenced.

I always took it as the ablative version of the Latin word res (http://www.math.osu.edu/~econrad/lang/ln5.html)

Yes believe it or not, I studied Latin at school. It's a stretch to define it as an English word on it's own. 're' only becomes the ablative version of 'res' when it is used within a Latin phrase. eg. 'In re'. The ablative being by,with or from the word being referenced. The Oxford dictionary gives the etymology as being from the Ablative of 'res' but accepts 're' as now being an english word. English over the years has absorbed many words from different languages including Latin.

The Oxford dictionary gives the etymology as being from the Ablative of 'res' but accepts 're' as now being an english word. English over the years has absorbed many words from different languages including Latin.

And next it will absorb Spanish. It already is actually.

Earlier in the thread, a couple of folks commented on restaurants. I live in New Orleans. We have been visited many times by many critics. Most of them agree that we have world-class food here. Everything from haute cuisine to feeding at the trough.

If any of you are planning to visit New Orleans, drop me a note using my e-mail address The_Doc_Man@yahoo.com and I'll arrange to meet you if it is possible. Wifey LOVES meeting new people and we know where to find all the good restaurants, from po-boys to escargot. (Actually, you can have my share of escargot...)

Food in New Orleans is an adventure best experienced with a guide. But I've eaten in San Antonio. I can't say I was overly impressed with any place - except I was impressed in a negative way by Bill Miller's Barbecue - a chain of the fast-food variety. The grease level of the air inside the place was tangibly different than the outside air. I felt my arteries clogging with cholesterol just by breathing that air. The grease content was so high that I actually felt myself getting ready to heave. Wifey and I bought a souvenir cup for a friend of mine named Bill Miller and left.

I found New Orleans to have the same quality of restaurants as Montreal, with the exception of fast food franchises you would be hard pressed to find an eatery that has bad food. I also found the service excellent.

Wifey and I went through Montreal some years ago on a several-day excursion starting from Montreal and ending at Niagara. We enjoyed what we ate pretty much everywhere we went, though some of it was a bit mundane.

You are right about service. And in fact, if you DON'T get a server with an attitude in any New Orleans eatery, you have the right to feel somewhat slighted.

I've never been a fan of gourmet and haute cuisine cooking, but then again, family and mid-scale fare in New Orleans can be an adventure in itself.

To be honest, though, the best Italian food I ever ate wasn't in New Orleans even though we have some world-class joints including Mosca's. It has been too long since we were there, but my wife and I went to Washington D.C. and stayed in Crystal City. On 29th street, we found an incredible set of restaurants. Everything from Chinese to Vietnamese to Italian to Mexican to ... hold on for this one ... Ethiopian-Italian. The straight-up Italian place had a beef marsala that was to die for. But the Ethiopian-Ialian place was good, too. Their middle-African sampler was excellent, ranging from the most delicate sweet curry dishes to some blow-your-lips-off spicy curries. The range and variation in potency gave me a palate palette to remember.

Americans should remember who invented the language in the 1st place. :p

Speak the Queen's English. :rolleyes:




Just joking BTW.

Americans should remember who invented the language in the 1st place.

The Germans? (No, not kidding.)

If anybody "invented" the language it would have been Eve, Adam wouldn't have got a word in.

However I think it just evolved.

Brian

The Germans? (No, not kidding.)

The "English" that the German tribles came up bares no resemblance to the English that the Brits spread around the world but I take your point.

The "English" that the German tribles came up bares no resemblance to the English that the Brits spread around the world but I take your point.

"No resemblence" is overstating the case but yes English has changed a lot from its Old German ancestor, through the influence of Norse in the earlier times but mainly through adopting a substantial part of the French vocabulary.

The "English" that the German tribles came up bares no resemblance to the English that the Brits spread around the world but I take your point.
Bares, surely not?

Bares, surely not?
Perhaps the tribes in question were enthusiastic sunbathers:D

On a more serious note there is an excellent book on the English language calle "Mother Tongue" by Bill Bryson. Bryson is an american living in England so he is relatively neutral between American and English versions of the language.

Bares, surely not?

To be fair "bears no resemblence" and "bares no resemblence" both work, despite the former being the convention.

"bears" in this context means "to hold" while "bares" means "to show"

So long as we don't think of "bears" as Ursus sp. it works for me.:D

Of course, English being what it is, the choice of spelling can be critical.

Anyone else ever wondered why the US Constitution required the Second Amendment to allow them to wear short-sleeved shirts? :D

To be fair "bears no resemblence" and "bares no resemblence" both work, despite the former being the convention.

"bears" in this context means "to hold" while "bares" means "to show"

So long as we don't think of "bears" as Ursus sp. it works for me.:D

Talking of "bare" - I see Obama and his missus 'chelle are visiting the UK with an entaurage of 1500 hangers on.

She takes the amendment about the right to bare arms to the extreme - does she not posess a dress with sleeves?

Still, at least this time she didn't put her arm round the Queen (God bless her). That caused a big diplomatic incident last time she visited.

Col

If you allow for linguistic drift and a few phonetic variations, German and English are quite similar, particularly if you list to a Cajun from the Atchafalaya River basin speak English with a French/Spanish/German accent. (Yep, all three cultures have contributed to the Cajun dialect.)

In German, you will use D where in English you would normally use a TH. You would use a B where English would use an F. Dieb = Thief, for example. And of course, during WWII you might have heard a surrendering German soldier say "Schiess! Nicht scheissen!" (Aw shit, don't shoot.) The fact that the phrases retain similarities between their verbs shows that they drifted similarly. Oh, and if I got the verbs backwards in German, the phrase works backwards, too. :D

Didn't an earlier post demonstrate issues with phonetic spelling and such? Anyway, German bears much greater resemblance to English than, say, Latin and English. Give me gutsy German rather than visceral Latin any time, unless of course we are discussing incantations or certain religious music.

Amusing you should pick "TH" in your sample, up in Maine/Quebec/New Brunswick the francaphones will substitute D or T when speaking English depending on the use of phonetics - so you have "Dis, Dat and de udder thing" for "this, that and the other thing".
You would also want to avoid discussion of certain religious incantations or expressions as they are most often used as cuss words rather then demonstrations of faith.

If you allow for linguistic drift and a few phonetic variations, German and English are quite similar, particularly if you list to a Cajun from the Atchafalaya River basin speak English with a French/Spanish/German accent. (Yep, all three cultures have contributed to the Cajun dialect.)

In German, you will use D where in English you would normally use a TH. You would use a B where English would use an F. Dieb = Thief, for example. And of course, during WWII you might have heard a surrendering German soldier say "Schiess! Nicht scheissen!" (Aw shit, don't shoot.) The fact that the phrases retain similarities between their verbs shows that they drifted similarly. Oh, and if I got the verbs backwards in German, the phrase works backwards, too. :D

Didn't an earlier post demonstrate issues with phonetic spelling and such? Anyway, German bears much greater resemblance to English than, say, Latin and English. Give me gutsy German rather than visceral Latin any time, unless of course we are discussing incantations or certain religious music.