I see on the BBC news yesterday that Obama unveiled a statue of MLK, 43 years after his "I have a dream" speech.

How have things gone in the USA over those 43 years? Yes the segregated queues and the different buses have gone, but have things really changed?

It said that a black family is 20 times worse off than a white family - is that true? If not, what are the proportions?

Do white people only pay lip service to the blacks? They interviewed some black people and they said things haven't changed much. Do you white people agree?

Do you have black people in your area? In the UK I (and many others) get the impression the USA whites still racially hate the black people.

I know those here will say that all is well because that is the PC thing to say - but is it really true?

Col

hand grenade time....
duck


I suspect that the same amount of change as the UK
things here aren't excatly equal
and it will depend on which Part of the US you look at - its a big old place
the North should be better than the South .. but you would need a Black American to answer this to get an objective answer
perhaps the question should be reversed ? does the Black population of the US /UK have equal opportunities to get jobs
I think the answer is no on both sides
have things improved on both/either side ?
G

I'll bite. Things are vastly improved since then, but there is still room for improvement. We have a black president, elected in large measure by whites. Lip service doesn't accomplish that (has the UK had a black PM...). Some white people will never respect/accept black people, and some blacks will never acknowledge that things are better.

I'm white, but I'm married to a black woman. We have rarely had a problem with race, and the worst problems we've had came from black men, not white people. Both of our families like each other. We are/she is accepted and treated well everywhere we go. As Gary mentioned, it varies around this large country. In travelling, we did sense less acceptance in the south, though there were no overt acts. Of course, that was more of an interracial relationship thing; we sensed it from blacks and whites alike there.

When my wife was young, there were many businesses in town that she couldn't walk through the front door of. Bathrooms she couldn't enter. Her daughter never experienced that. I think that's a long way to go in a single generation. You don't change people's beliefs with a wave of a magic wand. It takes time to educate them.

Is America perfect? No, far from it, racially or by any other measure. It's still pretty good though, for all its faults. We’re contemplating retiring abroad, but that’s more about experiencing other cultures than getting away from America. There’s a lot I’d change about America, but the list of other countries I’d call “better” is not that long.

It’s awesome how we dominate your thoughts; you can’t take a sip of tea without thinking of USA isn’t that right Col?

It’s awesome how we dominate your thoughts; you can’t take a sip of tea without thinking of USA isn’t that right Col?

You are right. However, being as the USA is constantly in the news and on TV here, recent examples being

a) The MLK thing.
b) The Indie car race that killed a UK driver.
c) Yet another multi shooting / killing spree somewhere last week.
d) Economy and how the US destroyed the world economies especially in Europe.
e) Extremes of weather

It does make it difficult not to think of questions that you "normal" people may like to answer. Also, learning about other places is a good thing isn't it?

pbaldy - The TV news appeared to give a much worse account than you seem to experience. Maybe they focused on the South where things are much worse?

Col

Rubbish

the indie car thing -is nothing its a dangerous sport - Europe had the massive death toll some years back 100+

Kill spree Norway/Sweden ...
extremes of weather that hardly the US fault
Economy - bollocks - partly down to cycles of trade and also the EU letting in weak contries

Now that not to say the US doesn't have some input into t he problems b ut to lay it at their feet doesn't seem rightr

...

I knew right after reading the title that it was going to be a Colin post.


Things are vastly improved since then, but there is still room for improvement. We have a black president, elected in large measure by whites. Lip service doesn't accomplish that (has the UK had a black PM...). Some white people will never respect/accept black people, and some blacks will never acknowledge that things are better.


I think that pretty well sums it up.


It’s awesome how we dominate your thoughts; you can’t take a sip of tea without thinking of USA isn’t that right Col?


I was thinking the same. I think Colin has too much free time on his hands.

I knew right after reading the title that it was going to be a Colin post.




I was thinking the same. I think Colin has too much free time on his hands.

As he signs his posts col that was not exactly rocket science, if the site could deactivate colinessex he would use it.
As for his time he is retired but is the cater for his sick wife so what he can do with it is probably limited.

Brian

Posters reactions to colin's posts are often as narrow minded as his reactions to US events. All he was trying to illustrate, but not too cleverly perhaps, is that our news is dominated by the US, that is to be expected as they are currently the worlds top dog.

Brian

Paul has to be excluded from any criticism of course.

pbaldy - The TV news appeared to give a much worse account than you seem to experience. Maybe they focused on the South where things are much worse?

That's certainly a possibility, but I suspect the major issue is the way the media likes to sensationalize everything. A headline of "everything is calm" doesn't sell papers or hook viewers. They find the most sensational, outrageous, etc stories they can find and lead with that. You don't hear about the majority for whom life is good, you hear from the "squeaky wheel".

Also, keep in mind the size of this country. I think my state is larger than the UK. The country is probably 2-3 times the size of Europe and the UK combined. It's only logical that more news will come out of here, all things being equal.

Brian, I wish I was immune from criticism, but I've earned plenty. :p

Brian, I wish I was immune from criticism, but I've earned plenty. :p

I was thinking of this thread only. ;)

What's the saying


" He who has not made a mistake has not made anything"

or something like that.

Brian

Let's keep the personal attacks at bay. Colin's post didn't outright attack anyone, so there was no reason to begin a trolling session with him. In fact, I find this discussion rather fascinating.

Yes, there is still a lot of ignorance in this country. I find that it is no longer about blacks and whites. The majority of ignorance I have seen recently is Muslim related. There have even been cases of ignornace where Indians have been mistreated because they have darker skin and may "resemble" a Muslim. This ignorance has appeared to affect blacks and whites alike.

The same goes for gays. There has been plenty of ignorance in relation to this topic, although it's less about race obviously.

Let me talk about the economic disparity. Today, most people are looking for Office jobs (white collar). Jobs like typists, secretaries, bank tellers are disappearing due to technology and automation. Without an appropriate college degree, it is hard to get an office job today.
Blacks lag behind in education and especially in advanced degrees. That is the main reason for economic disparity.
Let me give my observations.

Everything being equal, a black person has a higher chance of getting employed by a large corporation than a white person. The company's desire to help minorities and the positive image it creates are the two main reasons. There are also laws regarding equal opportunity and Affirmative action.

The middle class and the rich families send their children to Colleges. As you all know, colleges are very expensive these days. Many black families are headed by single parents. In many cases, these parents are unable to motivate their children to go to colleges. They also lack the financial resources. This is working against the black children in getting higher paying jobs.

Today, there are plenty of blue collar jobs available in the service industry. When I call a plumber, the hourly rate is $135.00. There is a shortage of skilled people here in the Unites States. I do not see very many young black people trying to become skilled in a trade.

Regarding attitudes towards blacks, America has made significant progress in the last 45 years. But things are not perfect.

BTW, I am an Asian Immigrant living in the USA. I am an US Citizen. With all its faults, this is a great nation. I will not trade USA for any other.

Let me talk about the economic disparity. Today, most people are looking for Office jobs (white collar). Jobs like typists, secretaries, bank tellers are disappearing due to technology and automation. Without an appropriate college degree, it is hard to get an office job today.
Blacks lag behind in education and especially in advanced degrees. That is the main reason for economic disparity.
Let me give my observations.

Everything being equal, a black person has a higher chance of getting employed by a large corporation than a white person. The company's desire to help minorities and the positive image it creates are the two main reasons. There are also laws regarding equal opportunity and Affirmative action.

The middle class and the rich families send their children to Colleges. As you all know, colleges are very expensive these days. Many black families are headed by single parents. In many cases, these parents are unable to motivate their children to go to colleges. They also lack the financial resources. This is working against the black children in getting higher paying jobs.

Today, there are plenty of blue collar jobs available in the service industry. When I call a plumber, the hourly rate is $135.00. There is a shortage of skilled people here in the Unites States. I do not see very many young black people trying to become skilled in a trade.

Regarding attitudes towards blacks, America has made significant progress in the last 45 years. But things are not perfect.

BTW, I am an Asian Immigrant living in the USA. I am an US Citizen. With all its faults, this is a great nation. I will not trade USA for any other.


A lot of it has to do with finances, this is true. There is also an issue of motivation by the parents. Most of the racial tension by whites and blacks alike, and the undesire to succeed in school is a learned behavior from their parents. If you take that single mother raising her children, is she motivating them to finish school? How are the home conditions? Are the children involved in crime because of the living conditions and unambition of the parent? These things very well lead to more of the same for the children. The process begins anew. This isn't true in EVERY situation in these communities, but it's more often the norm.

I do agree with you though. This country, for all it's faults, is still my home. I try my best to personally improve it in every way I can. :)

I think we will see many many adjustments made to this country and the split party system in the next decade. As the party line continues to broaden, we will see more people segregate from these parties to run independent or with a smaller party. The change is already happening around us. As more people from my generation start taking office, we will see less divide on social issues than we did in the past. There is far less tension over race, sexual preference, and sex than there was 50 years ago because the social atmosphere has shifted. With the internet and technology constantly improving, people are able to reach out to the world and experince many more views than they could in the past. I'm excited to see what my generation can do for this country in bringing us, finally, into the 21st century.

I find it incredible how some people can react so harshly to questions about their country and culture. Almost as if they are guilty of trying to hide something.
It was the same when I asked what I thought were innocent questions about the twin towers and the "9/11 effect" - that thread was locked (by an Australian!)

I realise the USA is 2 or 3 times as big as Europe and has 300+ million people, so is a nightmare to control - but as I said, learning from "the ground floor" is surely better than reading the sensationalism of newspapers which exaggerate the facts.

I was interested in the Muslim angle - I bet that has only occured since 2001. (I won't mention 11/9 in detail or the thread will be locked - I always have to tread carefully)

Brian, thanks for the backup - I do have time to log in here but don't very often, maybe once a week, nothing much seems to happen, it's so boring here - I would like my name back, I have asked but no joy.

So do the unemployed get benefits in the USA? Like dole money - what about health cover? Is that free? and as good as the paid for healthcover? Can you get free healthcare? Do black people in Georgia (for example) get the same benefits as white people in New England?

Col

Posters reactions to colin's posts are often as narrow minded as his reactions to US events.

True, but he has kind of brought that upon himself. ;)

As he signs his posts col that was not exactly rocket science, if the site could deactivate colinessex he would use it.

I think what Adam was trying to say is that he knew who initiated the thread just by reading the title.

So do the unemployed get benefits in the USA? Like dole money - what about health cover? Is that free? and as good as the paid for healthcover? Can you get free healthcare? Do black people in Georgia (for example) get the same benefits as white people in New England?

Col

Yes, the unemployed get benefits for a while but it doesn't last forever. It's meant to help you until you can find work again, however with the downturn of the economy I think they extended the number of weeks that a person can continue to receive unemployment benefits. As far as the healthcare thing, I think that varies from state to state. I know here in OK we have a program that will allow you to insure your kids if you are a low/no income family. As for yourself, that's a different story. I personally don't know all the answers as I have been fortunate not to find myself in that position as of yet, but I know my sister-in-law was mostly a stay-at-home mom until her husband left her. For a while she was working at a job where she had no benefits as she wasn't full-time, so she was going to the Health Dept. to get basic health care for free, such as annual exam, flu shot, and other preventative things. It's not quite the same as having your own insurance and being able to go to a doctor of your choosing but it's something.

I would imagine other states have similar programs, some are probably much better than ours, others may not be as good. I don't really know.

Overall, I think things are much better but there is always room for improvement. You will always have some whites that are bigoted against blacks (or other minorities) and some blacks that are bigoted against whites. But on the whole things are much improved over what they used to be.

We have had 300 years to correct our injustices; you on the other hand have had a millennium. We have gone from slavery to having a black president in very short amount of time. So please tell the world when the next minority King or Queen will be? Or Prime Minister? Or will we have to wait another millennium?

This is not going to turn into a country bashing/pointing fingers thread.

What does the UK see as far as racism goes? Is there a lot of racism? What about anti-gay or religious movements? What about treatment to people from other countries, such as the US?

This is not going to turn into a country bashing/pointing fingers thread.

What does the UK see as far as racism goes? Is there a lot of racism? What about anti-gay or religious movements? What about treatment to people from other countries, such as the US?

No country bashing/pointing fingers thread here, move along folks nothing to see. ;)



I see on the BBC news yesterday that Obama unveiled a statue of MLK, 43 years after his "I have a dream" speech.

How have things gone in the USA over those 43 years? Yes the segregated queues and the different buses have gone, but have things really changed?

It said that a black family is 20 times worse off than a white family - is that true? If not, what are the proportions?

Do white people only pay lip service to the blacks? They interviewed some black people and they said things haven't changed much. Do you white people agree?

Do you have black people in your area? In the UK I (and many others) get the impression the USA whites still racially hate the black people.

I know those here will say that all is well because that is the PC thing to say - but is it really true?

Col

Can you get free healthcare?

Col
We don't get it here anyway, what benefits we supposedly get have been paid for and their benefits reduced over the years unless you have privately funde healthcare, your'e stuffed anyway:mad:

We don't get it here anyway, what benefits we supposedly get have been paid for and their benefits reduced over the years unless you have privately funde healthcare, your'e stuffed anyway:mad:

Your blood pressure goes up because of the low quality of the service, my blood pressure goes up because of the high quantity of the impending bill :p

On racism, there is plenty of it in my hometown. There's no excuse for it but I guess the reason is because it's small, remote and the winds of change blow slow here. A bit like that movie "The Village" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Village_%282004_film%29).

We have had 300 years to correct our injustices; you on the other hand have had a millennium. We have gone from slavery to having a black president in very short amount of time. So please tell the world when the next minority King or Queen will be? Or Prime Minister? Or will we have to wait another millennium?
Technically Barack Obama is not black - he is mixed race. As the UK monarchy is hereditary we will have to wait until someone in the line of succession marries someone from a minority race.

No sign at present of a minority PM either but that's democracy

Everything being equal, a black person has a higher chance of getting employed by a large corporation than a white person.

That sounds like an unfounded theory.


I find it incredible how some people can react so harshly to questions about their country and culture. Almost as if they are guilty of trying to hide something.


Most people actually don't. They respond to the tone of the message. As an example:

"How have things gone in the USA over those 43 years? Yes the segregated queues and the different buses have gone, but have things really changed?"

If you truly were interested in what others say, what is the need of the second sentence? You're asking a question, which seemed to be a fine one. But then with your second sentence you're implying something. That implication plus the general knowledge of your typical behavior puts some people on the defensive.

It would be like if I said "I know the UK's military was terrible back during WW2, with the US having to save them and all. Are they much better now?" It would be clear from that sort of statement that I would be trying to instigate, and the question is just an add-on in attempt to mask the insult.


I think what Adam was trying to say is that he knew who initiated the thread just by reading the title.


That's almost word-for-word what I did say. :)

Most people actually don't.

Only a very few do nowadays, that's why he is so bored. ;)

That sounds like an unfounded theory.



Far from unfounded. I think it's a pretty general belief actually in a corporate world where affirmative action and HR issues come into play. There are actually laws in many states that require corporations over a certain number of individuals to employ non-white men at a certain percentage, with no requirement in the other direction. Many companies prefer to avoid State Attorneys looking into their employment records to make sure they are following such laws. They will often go with the easiest route.

The same can be said of salary. There is a general consensus based on studies that blacks are still employed at a lower salary level than whites for a similar job. This can lead to a more desirable option as well for many corporations, with all else but color being equal.

Interestingly, The USA is the most racially integrated nation in the world.

And I live in the most racially integrated part of the country.

My considerably large group of friends is mixed from every walk of life and many different types of races and professions.

The general consensus of my immigrant friends is that no other country in the world is as good at handling multiple cultures, ethnics and races as the USA.

Col, do try to have more accurate facts when you make your blanket insults. As far as we have yet to go, no one else has come close to being as advanced as we are in this area.

Personally when I read your insults, it makes me wonder if you are envious or something.

And as far as European economy being dragged down by the US’s, well maybe those European bankers should have exercised a little more discretion when they invested in the largest housing bubble in history.

It makes you wonder how a Cambridge educated banker could be short sighted enough to ignore the fact that triple A rated bonds based on mortgages, in a market that was inflating 6 times faster than wages; was probably a bad idea.

Maybe they should have attended American schools. The last time I looked the American banking sector has done a much better job of shoring up the failures than the ones across the pond. Yes ours are still not in the clear, but they did a hell of a lot better than ya’lls.

Interestingly, The USA is the most racially integrated nation in the world.

And I live in the most racially integrated part of the country.

My considerably large group of friends is mixed from every walk of life and many different types of races and professions.

The general consensus of my immigrant friends is that no other country in the world is as good at handling multiple cultures, ethnics and races as the USA.

Col, do try to have more accurate facts when you make your blanket insults. As far as we have yet to go, no one else has come close to being as advanced as we are in this area.

Personally when I read your insults, it makes me wonder if you are envious or something.

And as far as European economy being dragged down by the US’s, well maybe those European bankers should have exercised a little more discretion when they invested in the largest housing bubble in history.

It makes you wonder how a Cambridge educated banker could be short sighted enough to ignore the fact that triple A rated bonds based on mortgages, in a market that was inflating 6 times faster than wages; was probably a bad idea.

Maybe they should have attended American schools. The last time I looked the American banking sector has done a much better job of shoring up the failures than the ones across the pond. Yes ours are still not in the clear, but they did a hell of a lot better than ya’lls.

OMG nailed it. :D

Your blood pressure goes up because of the low quality of the service, my blood pressure goes up because of the high quantity of the impending bill :p


Mine's up anyway, the only fortunate thing is that I don't have to pay for the heart surgeon or doctors etc. to investigate the causes (yet). I just knew I should have given up the fags 40 years ago:rolleyes:

Interestingly, The USA is the most racially integrated nation in the world.

And I live in the most racially integrated part of the country.

My considerably large group of friends is mixed from every walk of life and many different types of races and professions.

The general consensus of my immigrant friends is that no other country in the world is as good at handling multiple cultures, ethnics and races as the USA.

Col, do try to have more accurate facts when you make your blanket insults. As far as we have yet to go, no one else has come close to being as advanced as we are in this area.

Personally when I read your insults, it makes me wonder if you are envious or something.

And as far as European economy being dragged down by the US’s, well maybe those European bankers should have exercised a little more discretion when they invested in the largest housing bubble in history.

It makes you wonder how a Cambridge educated banker could be short sighted enough to ignore the fact that triple A rated bonds based on mortgages, in a market that was inflating 6 times faster than wages; was probably a bad idea.

Maybe they should have attended American schools. The last time I looked the American banking sector has done a much better job of shoring up the failures than the ones across the pond. Yes ours are still not in the clear, but they did a hell of a lot better than ya’lls.
Let's face it, the whole western world's in a mess and nobody seems to know how to get out of it, pointing fingers and attaching blame isn't going to cure it:mad:

Far from unfounded. I think it's a pretty general belief actually in a corporate world where affirmative action and HR issues come into play.


I've heard people make the claim several times, but I haven't seen any statistics to back it up. The fact that certain news sources tend to push these ideas leave me skeptical.


There are actually laws in many states that require corporations over a certain number of individuals to employ non-white men at a certain percentage, with no requirement in the other direction.


Do you know which states these are? I'd be interested in reading that.


Let's face it, the whole western world's in a mess and nobody seems to know how to get out of it, pointing fingers and attaching blame isn't going to cure ithttp://accessworld.accessworld.netdna-cdn.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif


Well put.

Now let us talk about equal opportunity in UK. I remember seeing a posting from a guy in UK. As an administrator in the NHS, he would not hire any women because they took time off for family reasons.
Anyone remember this guy?

Interestingly, The USA is the most racially integrated nation in the world.
Based on what? Is there a racial integration index?

Now let us talk about equal opportunity in UK. I remember seeing a posting from a guy in UK. As an administrator in the NHS, he would not hire any women because they took time off for family reasons.
Anyone remember this guy?
Yes, but he's not around so much these days. ;)

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Based on what? Is there a racial integration index?

Uh yeah, it's called a census.

Do the math, the entire nation was built on immagration.

Uh yeah, it's called a census.

Do the math, the entire nation was built on immagration.
Resiting the urge to lower myself to the level of your 'uh yeah' comment, I'll just point out that a national census relates to the country in which it was completed. Unless you then compared that census against those carried out by all other countries, you have no basis for your previous statement.

Also, yes, the USA was built on immigration but so were Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and many other places. Where's your evidence that these countries are all less racially integrated?

Resiting the urge to lower myself to the level of your 'uh yeah' comment, I'll just point out that a national census relates to the country in which it was completed. Unless you then compared that census against those carried out by all other countries, you have no basis for your previous statement.


This is not a jab at Thales, but I have noticed people are doing that more and more. They believe something to be true, so they will make a statement with no facts to back it up (or, with their little supported interpretation of facts). When you then ask them for the facts that they are using to back up their statement, they will tell you it is common knowlege, to google it, or that they don't have time to point it out for you.

Opinions are all well and good, but they are still just opinions, and don't ( or at least, shouldn't) carry the same weight as facts.

This is not a jab at Thales, but I have noticed people are doing that more and more. They believe something to be true, so they will make a statement with no facts to back it up (or, with their little supported interpretation of facts). When you then ask them for the facts that they are using to back up their statement, they will tell you it is common knowlege, to google it, or that they don't have time to point it out for you.

Opinions are all well and good, but they are still just opinions, and don't ( or at least, shouldn't) carry the same weight as facts.
Thanks for that. Yes, this sort of thing
"it is common knowlege, to google it, or that they don't have time to point it out for you"
shows up all the time around here.

Noone's suggesting that the US wasn't founded on immigration, I just wondered what the evidence is that it's the most racially integrated country on Earth.

I thought that, in many cases, there were predominantly black/asian/white/hispanic areas (as there are in most Western countries). That being the case, how would a national census prove that the different races in the society in question were well integrated as opposed to existing in many, racially segregated groups?

Now let us talk about equal opportunity in UK. I remember seeing a posting from a guy in UK. As an administrator in the NHS, he would not hire any women because they took time off for family reasons.
Anyone remember this guy?

Hmmm, you need to get it right. I had a staff of 148 clerical staff ranging from receptionists to secretaries to filing clerks. 98% of my staff were female and the average age was 22 - as a result, there was always up to 4 or 5 on maternity leave.
In the NHS, there was no maternity leave cover (like a temp) so, as the preggers girl was being paid still, so, the others had to cover her work, this caused great resentment.

Therefore, when I interviewed, I did give preference to an unmarried girl if it was a close run decision who to appoint.

Another thing, as this was in Leicester where the population has a high percentage of Indian and Pakistani people, I would also give preference to them as they were much better workers - like timekeeping, loyalty, less sickness, more polite etc. than some white girls.

My objective was to keep sickness and absence to a minimum and to avoid the bitching that occured when people went on maternity leave.

Can I qualify all that by saying that I would use those guidelines only if there was a very small difference between candidates. I would employ a married girl of child bearing age if she was by far the best candidate. But I would have preferred not to.

Col

Hmmm, you need to get it right. I had a staff of 148 clerical staff ranging from receptionists to secretaries to filing clerks. 98% of my staff were female and the average age was 22 - as a result, there was always up to 4 or 5 on maternity leave.
In the NHS, there was no maternity leave cover (like a temp) so, as the preggers girl was being paid still, so, the others had to cover her work, this caused great resentment.

Therefore, when I interviewed, I did give preference to an unmarried girl if it was a close run decision who to appoint.

Another thing, as this was in Leicester where the population has a high percentage of Indian and Pakistani people, I would also give preference to them as they were much better workers - like timekeeping, loyalty, less sickness, more polite etc. than some white girls.

My objective was to keep sickness and absence to a minimum and to avoid the bitching that occured when people went on maternity leave.

Can I qualify all that by saying that I would use those guidelines only if there was a very small difference between candidates. I would employ a married girl of child bearing age if she was by far the best candidate. But I would have preferred not to.

Col

This ideal seems racist all in itself. Your generalization of Indian and Pakistani people sort of falls into this exact bill. It implies there isn't anyone else of any other culture/ethnicity who fall above them in these areas.

I'm not even going to touch the woman part. :D

I think there is a tendency for most people in general to make racist and sexist assumptions without even realizing we are doing so. Believing that a stripper must have "daddy issues" or be on meth instead of doing her job because she actually enjoys it falls into this line. I have known strippers who are professional, clean, and loved their jobs. Certain expected learned behaviors and attitudes keep us ignorant and condition us to feel this way. If someone doesn't look at things with an open mind and try to stray from these assumptions, then they can stay ignorant and never see things from another point of view.

Logic actually would dictate the answer. After the original colonies were formed; which country had the largest percentage population growth from immigrations?

The gap is so wide that it almost does not bear examination.

Throughout the later part of the 19th and the entire 20th centuries The US imported more people from the rest of the world.

In Canada, Australia and New Zealand the original settlers still make up the majority of the people. In the US that is no longer the case. Many people from Europe migrated here in the earlier years, but in the last decades it has grown to include many from India, China, Korea, Vietnam, and all over Africa.
Not to mention our very diverse population of natives. Including Polynesians in Hawaii and various tribes in Alaska.
In Houston the population speaks 132 different languages; in Northern Virginia where I live, the diversity is so extensive that we no longer have clear majorities.

This ideal seems racist all in itself. Your generalization of Indian and Pakistani people sort of falls into this exact bill. It implies there isn't anyone else of any other culture/ethnicity who fall above them in these areas.

You need to remember that this was the 1980's I'm referring to, and I did clarify it by saying I would appoint the best candidate irrespective of race age or marital status. The guidelines I mentioned only came into play in tight decisions. Sometimes of course, I was wrong in what I decided.

I'm not even going to touch the woman part. :D



Best not too! The worst thing that happened to cause more unrest and annoyance in managers is the maternity leave legislation. If you are not allowed any temps to cover then things get a bit rocky for the rest of the staff.

There should be no maternity leave or maternity pay. It was the bane of my life as an NHS manager of a large department. If people want babies then they should leave their job when the time comes and fund it all themselves. If they can't afford it then tough luck honey - use contraception or don't do it.

Col

I was intrigued by the 20 times wealthier - when I saw it on the news and was reminded of it by Col here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019180/White-Americans-record-20-times-wealthier-blacks.html

This is where the figures are calculated.

Some good news for Col - hes worth way more than the average American. (I think he knows that anyway).


Is renting still big in the US? Whats the avergae cost of a house? Cos 60k doesnt seem much?

I wonder what the figures are here?


As a total aside - I was looking at a holiday Boston area - around up to Niagara etc, and a Boston Hotel seems to be 200 dollars a night (2 adults , one kid)? That seems steep, didnt it used to be that US hotels were cheap? Now a fortnights stay in Boston is getting towards what the average black family is worth?

Logic actually would dictate the answer. After the original colonies were formed; which country had the largest percentage population growth from immigrations?

The gap is so wide that it almost does not bear examination.

Throughout the later part of the 19th and the entire 20th centuries The US imported more people from the rest of the world.

From where? The fact that the population rose doesn't mean that the variation increased to a greater extent than in all other places.

In Canada, Australia and New Zealand the original settlers still make up the majority of the people. In the US that is no longer the case. Many people from Europe migrated here in the earlier years, but in the last decades it has grown to include many from India, China, Korea, Vietnam, and all over Africa.
Not to mention our very diverse population of natives. Including Polynesians in Hawaii and various tribes in Alaska.

Once again, no-one is saying that the US isn't diverse, just that you still haven't shown it to be the most diverse country on Earth, beyond stamping your feet and saying that you're right because you think so and referring to your own special type of 'logic'.

In Houston the population speaks 132 different languages
That fact alone isn't particularly impressive, if you're trying to prove the greatest diversity in the world.
http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/estuary/multiling.htm

Sadly certain levels of management get the golden handshake early retirement packages rather then being fired for being lousy at their jobs. There is no place for prejudice in the workplace and persons who seem to find ways to justify these way make them look worst in my opinion.

Now let us talk about equal opportunity in UK. I remember seeing a posting from a guy in UK. As an administrator in the NHS, he would not hire any women because they took time off for family reasons.
Anyone remember this guy?

I see that the rose tinted specs are still around, and experience is being shunned.
I hate unfounded prejudice of any sort but an elder brother learnt from experience that the best assistants to employ in his shop were post menapausal women whose own kids were in the teens and thus unlikely to have children, also having had the race card played against him when complaining of bad time keeping and sloppy work, no coloureds, as a small business man he couldn't afford the risks.

Brian

New business rules for equal opportunity

Rule #1: The boss is always right.
Rule #2: If the boss is wrong, see rule #1.

They are not new, it as always been , until the starry eyed people took over the asylum, that
"he who pays the piper calls the tune"

Lefties never put their money where their mouth is, preferring to spend other's.

Brian

They are not new, it as always been , until the starry eyed people took over the asylum, that
"he who pays the piper calls the tune"

Lefties never put their money where their mouth is, preferring to spend other's.

Brian

I'm becoming a little lost here Brian. Are you saying in order to run a profitable business one should only employ whites?

Dan I have not got a clue how you came to that conclusion from the post that you quoted, but the answer is no.

Brian

Dan I have not got a clue how you came to that conclusion from the post that you quoted, but the answer is no.

Brian

It wasn't a conclusion. It was a question.

It arose from you saying


also having had the race card played against him when complaining of bad time keeping and sloppy work, no coloureds, as a small business man he couldn't afford the risks.

From this I am getting the impression that hiring any "coloured" is too much of a business risk because of the possibility of them playing the "race card" and that this attitude is acceptable to you. If this wasn't what you meant then I'd like clarification on what you did mean.

I would have to say in this country the word “coloureds” would be a pejorative term at best. Old racists white people from the south would use language like that.

I would have to say in this country the word “coloureds” would be a pejorative term at best. Old racists white people from the south would use language like that.

It would appear that the words one can use changes almost from day to day so whilst I apologies to anybody offended by those that I use it is likely that it will continue. I personally am offended by that lovely little word gay being hijacked by the homosexual community, are they ashamed of what they are so that they use a euphemism?

Brian

It wasn't a conclusion. It was a question.

It arose from you saying



From this I am getting the impression that hiring any "coloured" is too much of a business risk because of the possibility of them playing the "race card" and that this attitude is acceptable to you. If this wasn't what you meant then I'd like clarification on what you did mean.

I wish that I had worked out how to do multiple quotes but as I haven't please bear with me.

My brother realised that he was Condemning a lot of people on the basis of one experience but as I said it was his livelihood that he would be risking so he was not prepared to do that.

Posts should be read in full and in the context of the discussion, interesting that you picked up on the colour issue but not the age issue, but then vassago only commented on the race issue also!


Brian

Brian

I wish that I had worked out how to do multiple quotes but as I haven't please bear with me.

My brother realised that he was Condemning a lot of people on the basis of one experience but as I said it was his livelihood that he would be risking so he was not prepared to do that.

Posts should be read in full and in the context of the discussion, interesting that you picked up on the colour issue but not the age issue, but then vassago only commented on the race issue also!


Brian

Brian

Some people insist on cutting off their nose despite their face. The risk of facing heavy legislative penalties for discrimination is far greater and more damaging than having the "race card" pulled on you, especially when you can completely protect yourself from it by putting in place a basic documented disciplinary procedure.

Perhaps you'd like to pass this advice on to your brother before he gets sued.

It comes with the added benefit of not having to adopt an attitude of "unfounded prejudice" which is how you correctly described it.

Oh yes by the way in response to not responding to

"but an elder brother learnt from experience that the best assistants to employ in his shop were post menapausal women whose own kids were in the teens and thus unlikely to have children,"

This is an observation of a trend which doesn't preclude any other type from possibly being employed whereas the second part was much more explicit in the prejudicial reaction to what turned out to be a single event.

Personaly, I think post mentapausal women kick butt in the market place. Less estrogen and just enough testosterone.

They can be a little bossy, but they tend to listen well.

My experience at the Federal Government is that, the most racist of all folks are black women, they, more than any other, tend to hire and promote other black women.

With white males tending to have the most racially and genderly mixed teams.

Is renting still big in the US? Whats the avergae cost of a house? Cos 60k doesnt seem much?

I wonder what the figures are here?


As a total aside - I was looking at a holiday Boston area - around up to Niagara etc, and a Boston Hotel seems to be 200 dollars a night (2 adults , one kid)? That seems steep, didnt it used to be that US hotels were cheap? Now a fortnights stay in Boston is getting towards what the average black family is worth?

Renting - It depends on the area. In my city, a lot of people are losing their homes due to property values, HOA failures, and bad decisions. More people are being forced to leave their homes and find a place to rent, so renting has taken a huge hike, which has increased the costs associated with it, unfortunately.

Boston - I had to travel to Boston a few months ago for my brother's wedding. I found that it was very expensive to stay in the city as well. I was shocked that a regular hotel chain was about twice the price of similar room in Florida. Then again, many things were more expensive in Boston.

I would recommend finding a room outside of Boston alone the highway, in whichever direction you wish to travel on your visit. You'll save bundles. This is what I ended up ultimately doing, and found a good rate for a hotel and car rental on a website specializing in such things. (CheapTickets.com actually)

Renting - It depends on the area. In my city, a lot of people are losing their homes due to property values, HOA failures, and bad decisions. More people are being forced to leave their homes and find a place to rent, so renting has taken a huge hike, which has increased the costs associated with it, unfortunately.

Boston - I had to travel to Boston a few months ago for my brother's wedding. I found that it was very expensive to stay in the city as well. I was shocked that a regular hotel chain was about twice the price of similar room in Florida. Then again, many things were more expensive in Boston.

I would recommend finding a room outside of Boston alone the highway, in whichever direction you wish to travel on your visit. You'll save bundles. This is what I ended up ultimately doing, and found a good rate for a hotel and car rental on a website specializing in such things. (CheapTickets.com actually)

Hmmm, Boston may not be were I want to be then, if its too expensive, on the other hand you are correct we could stay outside Boston - its not like we need top be the centre of the nightlife or something. Thanks - I shall look into it.

HOA?

I visited Boston this summer. Not THAT expensive beside hotel rooms. I think the main reason is that lots of hotels were "No Vacancy". Likely a demand/offer thing. What I suggest is getting an hotel a bit outside of town but close to a subway line (what we did). We then got a 7-day unlimited pass for 15$. Will get you pretty much anywhere.

Niagara: are you speaking Niagara, NY (Niagara Falls, ON) ? Cause it's like 8 hour drive from Boston...

Besides the expense, the worst hassle in Boston and the surrounding areas is the traffic! People cannot drive up there. Boston gets VERY congested during the day, all day. It was enough to drive me mad!

Are the Klu-Klux-Klan still in operation in the USA? I haven't heard anything about them for years.

?Maybe there is a modern equivalent perhaps?

Col

Are the Klu-Klux-Klan still in operation in the USA? I haven't heard anything about them for years.

?Maybe there is a modern equivalent perhaps?

Col I heard they left the USA and retired in Essex, UK.

I heard they left the USA and retired in Essex, UK.

I wasn't aware of that :confused: - could you give more detail please?

Col

Are the Klu-Klux-Klan still in operation in the USA? I haven't heard anything about them for years.

?Maybe there is a modern equivalent perhaps?

Col
There was a documentary on tv here, a week or so ago. Supposedly, there's a bit of a schism in the group, with some thinking they need to be more lenient in their views if they're actually going to achieve anything, while others want to go back to what they viewed as 'the good old days' of lynchings, etc. as they felt a hard line was needed more than ever, nowadays.

It was pretty strange seeing this as a subject for discussion in the 21st century.

What an odd question. Where you on their mailing list and they stopped mailing you? Perhaps of you are looking to start up a chapter then perhaps you could help to revive the British National Socialist Movement.

Are the Klu-Klux-Klan still in operation in the USA? I haven't heard anything about them for years.

?Maybe there is a modern equivalent perhaps?

Col

What an odd question. Where you on their mailing list and they stopped mailing you? Perhaps of you are looking to start up a chapter then perhaps you could help to revive the British National Socialist Movement.

What an odd answer. I fail to see why I would wish to be implicated with them for asking a question.
If I asked if North Korea had nuclear weapons, does that mean I want to see a nuclear war?

Alc's comment indicates that it (the KKK) is still going - personally I had no idea, hence the question.

Col

If they are still around, it must be a very small organization. Col, you watch news on US affairs often, correct? Have you seen any news on them in years? I know I haven't.

If they are still around, it must be a very small organization. Col, you watch news on US affairs often, correct? Have you seen any news on them in years? I know I haven't.

I only watch the BBC news - heaven forbid that I should watch an American news channel (like Fox). I don't like the news to be government censored like it is in the USA.

Usually there is an item on something major that happens in the USA - that is what I comment on. And no I haven't heard of the KKK for years, hence the question. You Americans are always telling me I know nothing about reality in the USA which is why I ask those people on the ground what the state of play is. That is why you are all so super-sensitive about any questions, you always interpret a quest for knowlege as a slight on your country.

I realise that correct English is not your first language, that maybe is the reason you (Americans) always misinterpret my comments.

Col

I only watch the BBC news - heaven forbid that I should watch an American news channel (like Fox). I don't like the news to be government censored like it is in the USA.

Usually there is an item on something major that happens in the USA - that is what I comment on. And no I haven't heard of the KKK for years, hence the question. You Americans are always telling me I know nothing about reality in the USA which is why I ask those people on the ground what the state of play is. That is why you are all so super-sensitive about any questions, you always interpret a quest for knowlege as a slight on your country.

I realise that correct English is not your first language, that maybe is the reason you (Americans) always misinterpret my comments.

Col

I'm sorry if my question and/or comment struck a nerve. I know how super-sensitive you are. I was merely asking as I am unaware of any recent news by the dreadful clan. I wasn't sure if you had heard or seen something I haven't.

I'm sorry you choose to limit yourself by not watching news programming from outside your country. It's no wonder why you no so little of the world outside the UK. I strongly urge you to consider opening your mind to the world a little more. It would limit the need to answer questions about groups that haven't existed in the media in years.

I watch news programs from many countries. I also read articles from outside the US. I enjoy BBC news, but since English is not my first language, it's sometimes hard for me to follow. In the future, perhaps I'll request your assistance in translating this for me. You seem to be fluent in English and American languages.

That is why you are all so super-sensitive about any questions, you always interpret a quest for knowlege as a slight on your country.


Oh, it was a quest for knowledge. Here:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=klu+klux+klan

I realise that correct English is not your first language, that maybe is the reason you (Americans) always misinterpret my comments.

Wow, I've never heard that one before...

This thread reminds me of an old saying "It is easier to wake up a man who is really sleeping, than the one who is pretending that he is sleeping".
Note: I heard this in another country.

Don’t argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Don’t argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
http://www.selfcontrolfreak.com/slaan.html

http://www.selfcontrolfreak.com/slaan.html

Thank you for the interesting link.

Don't call other members names. That basically makes that statement you posted hypocritical.