They say there are big problems with money this year. Kids want expensive things, food more expensive, etc. etc.

Anyone noticed that? I haven't. We've just spent hundreds on our garden having it revamped ready for springtime. Bought a couple of guitars, spent a few thou on booking a holiday for springtime, thinking about a new car - need to shift some cash. I can't see what people fuss about, I think it's all exaggerated.

Went to town yesterday, awful experience, all those ordinary common people rushing round, yuk. Went to a posh hotel here for coffee - lovely china cups and silver coffee and cream pots, much better class of people than Starbucks or Costa.

Col

So what is your point?

Mr. Davep, you are a very fortunate man. Enjoy your wealth.

Davep was being sarcy there I think :)

Davep was being sarcy there I think :)

No. Just stating facts. I worked bloody hard for my money over the years.

I fail to see why people get into difficulties financially. If you spend less than comes in then you're ok.

All this stuff about people not having enough for food seems strange. I've never met anyone like that.

People insist on having kids, now they have to pay bigtime.

Oh Fifty2One - the clue is in the thread title:rolleyes:

Col

I'm sure you worked really hard!!!

Perhaps you could upload pictures of the high life you live. That would get lots of comments ;)

VBA in case you don't know col comes from Bristol but now lives in Essex via Australia so has no chance of being sensible, as for working hard he worked in the NHS, so bit of a contradiction there!!!

Hi Col what car are you thinking of, don't buy a big 4x4 as you will hurt your old back lifting the wheelchair in and out, stick with the mondeo or move upmarket to a Mazda6

Hope you and yours have a good festive season.

Brian

I know Col has been here a long time and he likes a bit of attention :D

How did you know he worked in the NHS? Have you worked with him before Brian?

We have traded friendly insults over the years.
There was a time when Col, Rich and KenHiggs were always on here swapping banter, a few others joined in occasionally but sometimes it went too far and sensitive souls objected rather than just ignoring it. I think Col is still trying to revive those days but his posts occasionally go OTT as this did.

Brian

I see. The good old days! :)

Now that you mentioned Rich, where's he these days?

Pretty much gone the same way as everyone else.

I'm sure if we look far enough back, we might even be able to find threads where everyone was getting along and actually enjoying the banter without getting into poltiics and religion. It's possible it was all lost in the site hack a few years ago, much like my 10000 posts. :D

We have traded friendly insults over the years.
There was a time when Col, Rich and KenHiggs were always on here swapping banter, a few others joined in occasionally but sometimes it went too far and sensitive souls objected rather than just ignoring it. I think Col is still trying to revive those days but his posts occasionally go OTT as this did.

Brian

You are quite right Bri, I was trying to revive at least some banter like it was in the old days. A lost cause it seems. Michael Jackson has more life in him than these forums, it's like trying to give the kiss of life to a fishfinger.

I realise there is no point in trying, those that used to participate -Rich, Cindy, Tess, Brian, Mile-O (who at one point was Vass. . remember?) have mostly moved on or log in very little.

I'll continue to log in every now and then but there's no point in trying to spark some enthusiasm any more.

How sad.

Merry Xmas to you too Bri (and Vass et al) Oh BTW, I was looking at the Mondeo, Audi but I'll check out the Mazda too. As it's a cash purchase I should get a good deal this time of year if I go for it.

Col

You are quite right Bri, I was trying to revive at least some banter like it was in the old days. A lost cause it seems. Michael Jackson has more life in him than these forums, it's like trying to give the kiss of life to a fishfinger.

I realise there is no point in trying, those that used to participate -Rich, Cindy, Tess, Brian, Mile-O (who at one point was Vass. . remember?) have mostly moved on or log in very little.

I'll continue to log in every now and then but there's no point in trying to spark some enthusiasm any more.

How sad.

Merry Xmas to you too Bri (and Vass et al) Oh BTW, I was looking at the Mondeo, Audi but I'll check out the Mazda too. As it's a cash purchase I should get a good deal this time of year if I go for it.

Col

Internet is not the place for banter! lol QED

For a real on honest debate with unlike souls - it cant be beaten - as long as free speech is allowed but open slander of posters is not.

The balance had been lost. Lots of fake offence - usually by Americans and or Atheists, demanding everyone else conforms to their limited (but maybe correct - I'm being kind) view of the world.


Ho ho hum and merry Christmas. I presume the atheists are similarly denying the existence of Santa at this time of year - as he is of course akin to the myth of God.


Or do they pick and choose which fabrication they want destroyed and which suits them just fine, just like everyone else?

Actually Col, this is the first year in many that I'm *not* finding it financially difficult.

I will readily admit it was all my wife and I's doing.

Won't bore you with details. In any case, hope everyone has a good Christmas

but sometimes it went too far and sensitive souls objected rather than just ignoring it.

A case of be careful of what you ask for I guess.

but sometimes it went too far

Sometimes? More like most, if not all, of the time. As AnthonyGerrard said, the balance had been lost. More than that, it wasn't a fun place to come any longer. There wasn't a thread that you could open without reading sniping comments about George Bush and Iraq, politics and religion. I remember once, Tess, Idjit and I conspired via private messaging to take bets on how long a seemingly innocuous post would turn to political bashing. Idjit posted a thread about cute, fluffy kittens, and it took something like 4 posts before the first comment about George Bush was made. It was ridiculous.

much like my 10000 posts. :D

Ha, yeah I lost a couple thousand too. ;)

Now that you mentioned Rich, where's he these days?


Still alive;)

Ha, yeah I lost a couple thousand too. ;)
And I've lost thousands over the years, happy days eh:(

Still alive;)

Well, that's good news. :p

And I've lost thousands over the years, happy days eh:(

You used to have a 10,000+ post count as well, didn't you?

You used to have a 10,000+ post count as well, didn't you?


25,000+, Happy days eh;)

There wasn't a thread that you could open without reading sniping comments about George Bush and Iraq, politics and religion.

Well Bush was a warmongering murderer who made world peace much worse, started an illegal war and sent 4000+ US troops to their death and killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's. All for the oil and rich contracts for him and his Daddy's cronies.

He also made the USA the most hated country on the planet at that time.

Col

25,000+, Happy days eh;)

It's the lost information that matters, who cares about the post count, even Col's nemesis has admitted how pathetic it was to chase down Pat's total.

Brian

It's the lost information that matters, who cares about the post count, even Col's nemesis has admitted how pathetic it was to chase down Pat's total.

BrianSo the posts were completely unrecoverable? I'm sure they would have been able to recover it from a backup.

Well Bush was a warmongering murderer who made world peace much worse, started an illegal war and sent 4000+ US troops to their death and killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's. All for the oil and rich contracts for him and his Daddy's cronies.

He also made the USA the most hated country on the planet at that time.

Col

That's no reason to hijack every thread, it's a pity that our American friends rose to the bait , if they had criticised out Tony we would have agreed with them, most of us still want to have the poodle put down.

Brian

So the posts were completely unrecoverable? I'm sure they would have been able to recover it from a backup.

Apparently no recent backup so may thousands lost, I think it contributed to Pat Hartman and others leaving t he forum

Brian

That's no reason to hijack every thread, it's a pity that our American friends rose to the bait , if they had criticised out Tony we would have agreed with them, most of us still want to have the poodle put down.

Brian

There was plenty of retaliatory UK bashing, I indulged in a lot of it myself. It all contributed to the downhill slide. I regret it now.

I lost a lot of interest (and time--just got busy) a few years ago... Yet there were a few OK threads in between the bickering, weren't there?--the swine fever thread, for example, was snort of fun. The Story thread, innocuous as it sometimes was, always seemed like a place of refuge.

Ho ho hum and merry Christmas. I presume the atheists are similarly denying the existence of Santa at this time of year - as he is of course akin to the myth of God.


Or do they pick and choose which fabrication they want destroyed and which suits them just fine, just like everyone else?

Great comparison, as youngsters we are brainwashed into believing in both only to discover that there is little evidence for the existence of santa and absolutely none for the existence of an all powerful mercifull loving diety.

Brian

there is little evidence for the existence of santa and absolutely none for the existence of an all powerful mercifull loving diety.

Indeed. A wonderful caring person and friend fell asleep at the wheel just six hours ago. She is in the operating theatre and her five year old granddaughter is dead.

No mercy there.

I wasn't thinking of things close to home but the millions who starve through natural disasters, amazing that they are not mentioned when grace is said.

We had a poster in one thread who talked of all of god's wonderful and beautiful creations, quoting butterflies but omitting tsetse flies and malaria carrying mossies.

Brian

I like the take on it by Sir David Attenborough.

My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy'

tsetse flies and malaria carrying mossies.

BrianThey must have some use one way of the other. :D Without mosquitoes medical researches won't have much to do. :)

Page 3 and we're already on to the entirely unprovoked inadequacies of the religious regardless of the brief glimpse into why people don't participate anymore. There is but one track here.

Page 3 and we're already on to the entirely unprovoked inadequacies of the religious regardless of the brief glimpse into why people don't participate anymore. There is but one track here.

"unprovoked"! take a look at post #14, please try to consider the whole thread and not just the last post. This has happened before yet you used to be able to put lucid arguments together.

Brian

"unprovoked"! take a look at post #14, please try to consider the whole thread and not just the last post. This has happened before yet you used to be able to put lucid arguments together.

Brian

...and we're left with a familiar debate over 'who started it'. Well trodden and unstimulating.

Heck, I agree with the sentiments on George Bush and the ignorance of so many Americans, I just didn't feel like talking about it here. I felt like this forum was the place to escape and have fun with other members of the world. I deal enough in politics off of AWF. :p

By trying to stop the political and religious talks, I was trying to stop the inevitable avoidance by many longtime members who enjoyed the friendly banter before politics and religion became commonplace and people no longer took to friendly banter, but insulting and causing a stir. It seemed to become a challenge to see who would push the envelope too far first. Because of it, we've had bannings, deleted posts, lost friendships, and lost members.

Can we overcome this by removing this part of the forum? Can we get back to picture games and joke threads? I'm not sure. It would take a combined effort by all members of the forum.

This thread is in a section called "Politics and Current Events".

Those who don't want to participate in political discussions could simply avoid this topic.

This thread is in a section called "Politics and Current Events".

Those who don't want to participate in political discussions could simply avoid this topic.

This section didn't exist until well after the political and religious insults started. I never wanted this section to exist in the first place because I thought it would drive people away. Thus, my point...

This section didn't exist until well after the political and religious insults started.

"Insults" or "debate" is a matter of perspective. Some people, particularly the religious, have a lot of trouble accepting criticism of their faith even though they are quite happy to publicly blame all the ills of the world on those who don't share their delusion.

Religion is the biggest political issue on the planet today.

"Insults" or "debate" is a matter of perspective. Some people, particularly the religious, have a lot of trouble accepting criticism of their faith even though they are quite happy to publicly blame all the ills of the world on those who don't share their delusion.

Religion is the biggest political issue on the planet today.

I know , oh I know Basil.

Nationalism, Regionalism, Tribalism, Capitalism, Statism, Anarchism, Communism, Nihilism , Pestilence, War, Famine, Death , Love and Money.

All works of the Jews and their Abrahamic brothers!


Some people are quite happy to publicly blame all the ills of the world on those who don't share their delusion.

Some people !

"Insults" or "debate" is a matter of perspective. Some people, particularly the religious, have a lot of trouble accepting criticism of their faith even though they are quite happy to publicly blame all the ills of the world on those who don't share their delusion.

Religion is the biggest political issue on the planet today.

Specifically calling certain members names or insulting them in such childish ways as calling them "stupid" for believing what they believe is an insult, not really a debate. Debates are not based on opinions, but facts. Calling someone stupid is an opinion.

And yes, this did happen. I'm sure you an dig up much more instances of childish bickering as well.

Calling someone stupid is an opinion.

So is the position that political and religious discussion is unacceptable.

As I said earlier, nobody is forcing you to get involved. If you don't like it, why do you participate in it?

My guess is that you object to these discussions because it invariably shows religious beliefs to be farcical and you don't wish to be reminded that you are have adopted irrational beliefs.

...and we're left with a familiar debate over 'who started it'. Well trodden and unstimulating.

Pathetic response when shown to be mistaken.

Brian

This section didn't exist until well after the political and religious insults started. I never wanted this section to exist in the first place because I thought it would drive people away. Thus, my point...

with respect Vass I think that you have the point the wrong way, surely this section was created to get the turbulence away from the Watercooler which exists for the lighter mood, people who come to this section must expect ferocious debate, but stopping short of personal slander/insult, the problem is that some people are more sensitive than others , and some more able to insult subtly.

Brian

Indeed. A wonderful caring person and friend fell asleep at the wheel just six hours ago. She is in the operating theatre and her five year old granddaughter is dead.

No mercy there.

No mate its natural selection.

How the he'll does natural selection have anything to do with a 5 year old being killed in a road accident.

Brian

Pathetic response when shown to be mistaken.

Brian

I started the atheist stuff, as I feel they are responsible for shutting down, many a thread here - with their off topic, unreasonable, tedious, teenage arguments.


Why YOU, rose to such a challenge, with the usual tedious, teenage religious arguments, is entirely up to you. I dont think anyone with faith has commented, to warrent it?

So the cats right, in who started it is up for grabs. All you can do as an individual is take responsibility for yourself.

Or in the hypocritical and unthinking atheists case - try to blame religion, even though its had nothing to do with it.

You admit to starting it and then say that who started it is up for grabs, then have the gall to talk about tedious teenage arguments.

Amazing how you object to people responding to your banality with logic, but you are correct , you are not worth arguing with.

Brian

You admit to starting it and then say that who started it is up for grabs, then have the gall to talk about tedious teenage arguments.

Amazing how you object to people responding to your banality with logic, but you are correct , you are not worth arguing with.

Brian

I started something, what you started is something else.

Its really not difficult Brain - for people with the supposed intellect of an atheist.

Actually employ the logic you espouse - and you'll do a whole lot better!

So is the position that political and religious discussion is unacceptable.


Not at all, I just hope that people can be grown ups about it and not insult other members. Intelligent debate doesn't require insults.


As I said earlier, nobody is forcing you to get involved. If you don't like it, why do you participate in it?


It's my job as staff on the site to help keep order. If we have members blatantly insulting other members, who would want to come back?


My guess is that you object to these discussions because it invariably shows religious beliefs to be farcical and you don't wish to be reminded that you are have adopted irrational beliefs.


Hardly an educated guess. Where have I said I was religious? I'm curious on what led you to that conclusion. :rolleyes:

Pathetic response when shown to be mistaken.

Brian

It's your choice to dismiss the sentiment of my words in preference to whether you were 'provoked' or not. To me it is a mere technicality. I can retract for your benefit alone and my point is not lessened.

The dogs of Pavlov continue to foam over such terms as 'atheists' and 'Americans'. Anthony may have rung the bell but you chose to slobber.

Look to your own part in this.

And this thread has turned into a finger pointing thread...

And this thread has turned into a finger pointing thread...

I disagree. My point is that it is the LACK of acknowledgment on our own parts for what has happened on these boards is the cause for history to keep repeating itself and thus the drop of participation altogether through sheer boredom.

Why can’t we have a forum where we leave the gloves at the door? We sign an agreement that promises not to hold Jon liable. No moderators allowed. If you want to act like a gentleman fine, or throw the F bomb that’s ok too. I would be willing to fork out a few pieces of sliver if necessary.

Why can’t we have a forum where we leave the gloves at the door? We sign an agreement that promises not to hold Jon liable. No moderators allowed. If you want to act like a gentleman fine, or throw the F bomb that’s ok too. I would be willing to fork out a few pieces of sliver if necessary.

The problem with that is people would have to police themsleves as to which forum they posted in. Some of the more turgid, often repeated posters, deny they are being anything other than reasonable, benevolent to those who actually they are belittling , they wont want to be in the no holds barred section, instead prefering a more passive unwilling target.

The weapon of choice or the symptom of many a culprit, is repitition not the F bomb, and they are in complete denial that the problems got anything to do with them.

My suggestion would be to have a voting button for each post. Do we have that?
That way everyone could get a feeling of the mood of the rest of the forum. People wouldnt have to waste time on problem posters explaining the problem, and a problem poster couldn't claim they were a harmoniuos member, with just a few unreasonable objections when in reality post after post is getting 50 thumbs down.

Some posts will be unpopular, some will be supposed to be unpopular. But at least there will be no denying whats what as there seems to be now.

The weapon of choice or the symptom of many a culprit, is repitition not the F bomb, and they are in complete denial that the problems got anything to do with them.

It has been interesting exploring this issue with individuals without the support of the mob. Colors shine much brighter without them.

I say explore because they managed to never respond to or dare I say understand the points being made.

Why can’t we have a forum where we leave the gloves at the door? We sign an agreement that promises not to hold Jon liable. No moderators allowed. If you want to act like a gentleman fine, or throw the F bomb that’s ok too. I would be willing to fork out a few pieces of sliver if necessary.

There are plenty of other forums on the internet that allow and even encourage this behavior. Why would we need to do that on a professional forum regarding access coding?

Some of the more turgid, often repeated posters, deny they are being anything other than reasonable, benevolent to those who actually they are belittling ,

Like this entirely unprovoked diversion from the topic?

Ho ho hum and merry Christmas. I presume the atheists are similarly denying the existence of Santa at this time of year - as he is of course akin to the myth of God.

Or do they pick and choose which fabrication they want destroyed and which suits them just fine, just like everyone else?

There are plenty of other forums on the internet that allow and even encourage this behavior. Why would we need to do that on a professional forum regarding access coding?


You encourage this behavior everyday by running interference for a few malcontents.

Like this entirely unprovoked diversion from the topic?

That is one of the types of post responsible yes, I already admitted it.

I wont point out other responsible posts, or body of work by other posters, cos the only solution to the malaise of these forums is for all posters to take responsbility for how and what they post and moderate themselves.

Or have a gentle reminder of their posts impact through post votes/rating!

Have a lovely Christmas!

You encourage this behavior everyday by running interference for a few malcontents.

So, you are implying that a ruleless forum would have less of this? That certainly didn't prove true 5-6 years ago.

Still, it's a professional forum that's part of a business to the owner. Unless he says otherwise, we try to keep it at least business casual around here. I think we are more lenient here than other forums out there with similar topics. I like to keep it that way.

Hell, half of the stuff in the joke thread wouldn't even be allowed on other forums. :D

Like this entirely unprovoked diversion from the topic?

Do you now finally understand the point that is being made?

It has nothing to do with the merits of the atheist or theist viewpoint. No theist point of view has ever been put forward to counter in this thread yet countered they were.

It has to do with the acknowledgement of one's own role in causing the repetitive nature of these boards.

Do you now finally understand the point that is being made?



It has to do with the acknowledgement of one's own role in causing the repetitive nature of these boards.
The word you're looking for is "human nature" there will always be differences of opinion between two people, if that was the only number left on the planet,oh and happy holidays by the way;)

The problem arises when some people think disagreeing is an insult. Some go so far as insisting those who disagree should be killed. Other wouldn't go as far as committing murder but eagerly await the eternally imminent intervention of their heroic figurehead who will precipitate the slaughter for them.

I completely disagree with everyone.

Back on topic: Is a disparity of wealth undesirable? Is it true that "money is like muck, not good except it be spread."

Side note: Wonder what I'll get for Christmas...

You encourage this behavior everyday by running interference for a few malcontents.

I can't make any sense of this post, but I do know that vass does a good job of con tolling the content and manners of this forum whilst displaying a deft touch.

Brian

I can't make any sense of this post, but I do know that vass does a good job of con tolling the content and manners of this forum whilst displaying a deft touch.

Brian



I am a bit critical of Vassago’s style of moderating. I do acknowledge however it’s a tough job wrangling in this rowdy crew. In the end he tends to dish it right back in my face, so I have to tip my hat to him.:D

It has to do with the acknowledgement of one's own role in causing the repetitive nature of these boards.

Agreed. Choosing to debate with someone shows you have at least some amount fo respect for them. If someone posts something simply to incite and enrage others, it makes more sense to completely ignore them. By engaging in debate with them, you lend some credence to their hate, and help to further it along.

That's why there are certain posters that I don't ever respond to - just a waste of time.

As far as reviving the forums, both religion and politics are great topics to talk about. Everyone has an opinion on them. The key is to keep it civil. Disagree with someone, explain why you think they're wrong / you're right, without resulting to insults.

Lastly, being that this is a UK forum, it would be interesting to see more topics on things specific to the UK. I've been able to learn some interesting facts by reading the dialog between various UKers, but unfortunately, it often devolves into anti-US sentiment, which detracts from the value of the conversation.

I can’t imagine why anyone would advocate uncensored posting on this forum. This forum exist to disseminate Ms Access knowledge.

These arguing threads are a coffee break from that, and in a public coffee shop at that. If we were in a real coffee shop and acted in a manor not conducive to the shop’s business interests, we would be asked to leave.

This forum exists at the pleasure of those that pay for it.

And all of us have benefitted.

They say there are big problems with money this year. Kids want expensive things, food more expensive, etc. etc.

Anyone noticed that? I haven't. We've just spent hundreds on our garden having it revamped ready for springtime. Bought a couple of guitars, spent a few thou on booking a holiday for springtime, thinking about a new car - need to shift some cash. I can't see what people fuss about, I think it's all exaggerated.

Went to town yesterday, awful experience, all those ordinary common people rushing round, yuk. Went to a posh hotel here for coffee - lovely china cups and silver coffee and cream pots, much better class of people than Starbucks or Costa.

Col

Really Col?

They say there are big problems with money this year. Kids want expensive things, food more expensive, etc. etc.

Anyone noticed that? I haven't. We've just spent hundreds on our garden having it revamped ready for springtime. Bought a couple of guitars, spent a few thou on booking a holiday for springtime, thinking about a new car - need to shift some cash. I can't see what people fuss about, I think it's all exaggerated.

Went to town yesterday, awful experience, all those ordinary common people rushing round, yuk. Went to a posh hotel here for coffee - lovely china cups and silver coffee and cream pots, much better class of people than Starbucks or Costa.

Col

Col what town was this - I had a quick look at Colchester - and a few nice old pubs, a best western, a premier inn and a couple of 3 stars was what I found?