Don't ask how it happend as I'm also trying to find out myself... :o

One minute I was having a romantic anniversary meal with my Wife then the next think I remember is waking up with a massive hangover and finding candle wax over everything in the house including my Laptop and Mobile phone.. :mad:

....everything....

Everything? :eek:

Everything? :eek:

Ahem.. :o

Cough.....Cough

No need to worry, I know how to remove the wax when that happens... ;)

P L E A S E ......... - Just tell me it didn't get on this (http://www.house.gov/evans/images/tv_remote.JPG).

P L E A S E ......... - Just tell me it didn't get on this (http://www.house.gov/evans/images/tv_remote.JPG).

.... :eek: I'll let you know when I get home to check.


This is where I have found wax so far.

Carpet, Walls, window ledge, annivesary cards, Mobile Phone, Laptop, Cordless handset phone including base unit, bath and finally the bedside table.

I think I need a CSI team to come out and investigate.

I would be very interested in working out the order that it all took place in.. :rolleyes:

I think you 2 have officially redefined "kinky". I think anytime you include window ledges and anniversary cards in the love play then you cross a whole new boundary. Did you check the trunk of your car yet? There might yet be more undiscovered wax. ;)

I'd be checking out the mailman, etc, as well for signs of paraffin... :D

How To Remove Candle Wax from A Mobile Phone

Ring the hotline and it'll melt off :rolleyes:

Col

Groundrush,

This might be the answer to your question.

http://www.care2.com/channels/solutions/home/314

Ring the hotline and it'll melt off :rolleyes:

Col..... :D


Groundrush,

This might be the answer to your question.

http://www.care2.com/channels/solutions/home/314

Yep....... done that.

Got most of the wax off everything apart from the phone & laptop.

I was able to scrape most of it off the laptop but a few drops got inside the keyboard... :(

All is well now.. :)

One thing though...does anyone know how long it takes for chest hair to grow back?... ;)

One thing though...does anyone know how long it takes for chest hair to grow back?... ;)
Not too long, but tell the wife not to wear a bikini whilst she's waiting, she'll be ok in a month or so.

Col

One thing though...does anyone know how long it takes for chest hair to grow back?




The speed of hair growth is roughly 1.25 centimeters or 0.5 inches per
month, being about 15 centimeters or 6 inches per year. With age the
speed of hairgrowth might slow down to as little as 0.25 cm or 0.1 inch a month.

So I reckon that a conservative calculation ( assuming you are between 20 and 30 ) will give you something like ..........16.7778 years ?
:D

Not too long, but tell the wife not to wear a bikini whilst she's waiting, she'll be ok in a month or so.

Col
........ :D

The speed of hair growth is roughly 1.25 centimeters or 0.5 inches per
month, being about 15 centimeters or 6 inches per year. With age the
speed of hairgrowth might slow down to as little as 0.25 cm or 0.1 inch a month.

So I reckon that a conservative calculation ( assuming you are between 20 and 30 ) will give you something like ..........16.7778 years ?
:D

So I guess I have little or no chance of hair growing back on my head then.. :o

........ :D



So I guess I have little or no chance of hair growing back on my head then.. :o

The listed figures are for chest hair only, so I guess there is still hope for
the head area :D

Actually, speaking as a chest-waxing metrosexual I can say with certainty that the hair will be back in approximately 2 months though each waxing thins the hairs that return. In 1 month you'll have growth.

~Chad

Actually, speaking as a chest-waxing metrosexual I can say with certainty that the hair will be back in approximately 2 months though each waxing thins the hairs that return. In 1 month you'll have growth.

~Chad

Ok... I know I'm going to regret asking this - But what is your official street definition of a 'metrosexual'?

Ok... I know I'm going to regret asking this - But what is your official street definition of a 'metrosexual'?

Actually I don't think I've ever heard an 'official' definition--simply one of those words you just 'know.'

However, there are many accepted definitions. Most stem from idea of a straight man who 'takes care of himself' (as in hair, clothing, shoes, teeth, etc as well as even so much as choice in canine companion and home decor) in much the same manner as a city gay man. Metro-SEXUAL to indicate a man who almost crosses the sexual preference line. It's a terrible stereotype to assume that gay men are all chest-waxing fashion buffs and thus you have a serious divergance in the veracity of the term but, irregardless, it is what it is.

I personally like to feel the term simply describes a fully-urbanized straight man -- and by urbanized, I should sub-classify (European-urbanized) since metrosexuality is generally most prevalent in your urban cities that have heavy European influence -- New York, Chicago, SanFran but not necessarily, say, Houston.

My test: if you're straight and own a pair of flared leg faded-front jeans, some nice leather casual shoes or at least a pair of birkenstocks (shoes must be at least $100 value), a fitted-waist shirt (in any color but especially in bold colors like pink, purple, or yellow), and own at least one type of premium hair product that you purchased from a stylist or a specialty shop you are likely in line to be a metrosexual. Things like eyebrow plucking, chest-waxing, and working out often in public gyms also add to your metrosexuality score.

~Chad

Curious aspiration - to be thought of as a 'fully-urbanized' straight man...

I'm assuming the 'flared leg faded-front jeans' make some kind of fashion statement? Do you wear them everywhere or just when you go out with friends in the evening? Are they made from the stretch type denim?

Curious aspiration - to be thought of as a 'fully-urbanized' straight man...

I'm assuming the 'flared leg faded-front jeans' make some kind of fashion statement? Do you wear them everywhere or just when you go out with friends in the evening? Are they made from the stretch type denim?

Well I have four pair of jeans: two pair of DKNY's that I wear to work (we're a casual office) one is heavier for winter the other is an 'ultralight' pair for summer, my KennethCole dressier jeans (for night's out--they're quite tight but according to the little Ms. make my butt look great, which they better for the price I paid), and an older pair of Gap jeans that are now my manual-labor jeans, complete with custom patchwork done by yours truly. I think 'fashion statement' is the wrong idea--no one's out to make any other statement than to simply be 'in style' which translates into how much a person cares or doesn't care about their appearance.

For guys, 'in style' has always been about looking your best moreso than any particular fashion trend and there are a couple interesting tricks that play on the eye with faded-front flare legged jeans in how they make the leg shaped and how tight they can or cannot be.

As for stretch denim, I do not believe my kennethcole's are stretch material in the traditional sense. If there is some give is debatable, but I'd almost bet not.

Regards,
~Chad

:rolleyes:

...Regards,
~Chad

:rolleyes:

What was the roll eyes for? You think I'm being a butt again?

What was the roll eyes for? You think I'm being a butt again?

Oh not at all. :) More or less I'm amused by the whole conversation. How we got to my butt in a pair of tight jeans from candlewax on a cellphone. It's humourous. :D

~Chad

Cool...

I felt there were major differences between city and suburban people, I just didn't know there was a psuedo checklist :) (Of which I didn't score a single point!)

Is there a term for people who tend to go in to other direction? $13 walmart jeans, PayLess penny loafers, etc...? (Besides redneck :p )

Cool...

I felt there were major differences between city and suburban people, I just didn't know there was a psuedo checklist :) (Of which I didn't score a single point!)

Is there a term for people who tend to go in to other direction? $13 walmart jeans, PayLess penny loafers, etc...? (Besides redneck :p )

Erm. Depending if you're slugging beers around and wear a mullet. If so, sometimes TT (or trailer trash). Otherwise. We call them tourists. :cool:

~Chad

Edit: Or Texans. :eek:

Okay. Now this REALLY humours me. We've lost our entire IP stack at work. I can't even so much a bring up google--this network is gone.

Yet I am magically able to communicate just fine on this site and this site only.

Makes me wonder, did someone decide to host it locally off my machine without telling me? :p

Whats a mullet?

Whats a mullet?
:eek:

Oh no! I give all my hopes for you Ken that you do not sport it. A mullet is a type of hairstyle also known in the southern regions as a 'short-long.' Hair is cut short on the top and sides and grown longer in the back. Jeff Foxworthy sports a mullet. And the rat-tail look of the 80's was also a kind of mullet.

It's considered the ultimate fashion faux-pa.

~Chad

Nah... I had to give up on the hair thing many moons ago :D Now a day's I can just walk into pretty much any barber shop and ask them to go over it with a set of clippers with a #1 1/2 attachment, shave the neck and I'm good to go... :D

LOL ---- Best laugh I've had for ages ...............

You better develop the film in your camera as well!!!!

Whats a mullet?
A fish :p

Cool...



Is there a term for people who tend to go in to other direction? $13 walmart jeans, PayLess penny loafers, etc...?

Yes, they're called sensible.
Oh by the way jeans are four quid a pair over here from Tesco and Asda :cool:

Yes, they're called sensible.
Oh by the way jeans are four quid a pair over here from Tesco and Asda :cool:

Do you have metrosexual, want to be urbanized men in the UK with chest waxing and all?

Yes, they're called sensible.
Oh by the way jeans are four quid a pair over here from Tesco and Asda :cool:
Well, I still wear my 1976 Levi Red Label denim jacket, in fact I'm off to get some lunch - wearing it now ;)

Col

Do you have metrosexual, want to be urbanized men in the UK with chest waxing and all?
Yes, I suspect they're unsure of their sexuality :D

Yes, I suspect they're unsure of their sexuality :D

And that would be close to 'almost crossing the sexual preference line.'?

Do you have metrosexual, want to be urbanized men in the UK with chest waxing and all?
If a man in the UK was to say he did chest waxing, I'm afraid it would provoke a similar reation to saying that he wears womens clothing at weekends. :o Best not to mention it in certain pubs if one wants to keep ones face intact.

Col

...
I personally like to feel the term simply describes a fully-urbanized straight man -- and by urbanized, I should sub-classify (European-urbanized) since metrosexuality is generally most prevalent in your urban cities that have heavy European influence -- New York, Chicago, SanFran but not necessarily, say, Houston.

If a man in the UK was to say he did chest waxing, I'm afraid it would provoke a similar reation to saying that he wears womens clothing at weekends. Best not to mention it in certain pubs if one wants to keep ones face intact.


So if you aspire to be considered a European influenced, metrosexual kind of guy, the chest wax thing could be attributed to ...? :confused: :confused:

(p.s. Glad us normal southern guys got something reasonable from our British heritage :p )

In the UK in schools you can get beaten to a pulp for not wearing the correct brand trainers. So anything out-of-the norm is liable to get a beating by these mindless thugs.

Incidentally, the teachers union here has now issued instructions for teachers not to break up fights in schools - because teachers could be sued for "excessive or inappropriate" handling of children, be suspended if the child complains and go through a local and Dept of Education enquiry. Teachers must wait until the last possible moment before stopping the beating, I presume thats when the child is almost unconcious. :rolleyes:

Incidentally,the parents of the beaten child can also sue the teacher for "lack of action and intervention" if they don't intervene.

What a strange world we live in.

Col

So if you aspire to be considered a European influenced, metrosexual kind of guy, the chest wax thing could be attributed to ...? :confused: :confused:

(p.s. Glad us normal southern guys got something reasonable from our British heritage :p )

Well it's debatable. Since most of the cleanest men's fashion comes from the UK and France you have to admit a certain decidedly European Influence.

The reason to wax a chest is simply that it tricks the eye and makes the pectoralis majora appear much larger. The same goes for getting rid of the 'stairway to heaven' for the abs and even a bit of trimming down-under. Removing hair from said locations makes the body mass found there appear larger (and in some cases is much kinder to the missus if she's putting her mouth there! :eek: )

As for questioning the 'sexual identification' of metrosexuals it's actually just the opposite of what has been insinuated thusfar. Most metrosexuals are far more secure in their sexuality than your average man. Part of it is environmental--you tend to find metrosexuals in mostly urban settings where sexual liberation is less supressed. In less liberal settings (IE sub-urbanity), you have a considerably higher population of in-the-closet individuals and that leads to an overall greater insecurity for the population. Simple ignorance of the homosexual community (at least by extended experience with) and strong religious ties (almost all of which are anti-homosexual) also contribute to a greater sexual insecurity (by population).

Metrosexuals tend to have considerably more experience with the homosexual community (like me when I was an actor and the only straight man in a room of 50). In an environment like that everyone is free to be, whomever they want to be--the pressure that makes heterosexuality a 'preferable choice' (though sexual preference is never a choice but choosing to engage in hetero or homosexual activity can be argued to be a choice) is removed. So in that circumstance males tend get in touch with their own sexuality far more deeply only because there's no reason to hide.

Then you (as a metrosexual) don't have to 'prove' what a man you are by wearing busted up jeans and ripped t-shirts. You begin to appreciate your own body for what it is and the pleasure it can bring your partner. Men ask their girls to dress up in dresses and wear high heels, etc, so why shouldn't the girls get the same treatment? If pink is a good color for your skin tone and hair and eye color--what's to stop you from wearing it? It's having control of yourself and throwing social stigmata to the wind for the arrogant paranoid BS that it is.

~Chad

If pink is a good color for your skin tone and hair and eye color--what's to stop you from wearing it? ~Chad

Try wearing it out on the streets over here and see what reaction you get :cool:

Incidentally, the teachers union here has now issued instructions for teachers not to break up fights in schools - because teachers could be sued for "excessive or inappropriate" handling of children, be suspended if the child complains and go through a local and Dept of Education enquiry. Teachers must wait until the last possible moment before stopping the beating, I presume thats when the child is almost unconcious. :rolleyes:

Incidentally,the parents of the beaten child can also sue the teacher for "lack of action and intervention" if they don't intervene.

What a strange world we live in.

Col

What a bloody farcical society Bliar and co. are creating.
"We're going to crack down on bullies in schools, we're going to get tough on grime and the causes of grime ":rolleyes:

Try wearing it out on the streets over here and see what reaction you get :cool:

Which is playing into the 'arrogant paranoid' BS that is social stigmata -- most of which has no basis in any kind of reality and sort of defeats the whole purpose.

It's about men who are true to themselves not hiding behind some trussed up bearded flannel-wearing lumberjack image created god-knows-when by someone who was probably a closeted homosexual and dreaming about what he wanted to be in a society that wouldn't accept him for who he was.

~Chad

Edit: The 'reaction' in other people is frankly laughable. I'm assuming about being called 'gay' or taking things to fisticuffs or something along those lines. If wearing pink causes any sort of 'reaction' other than simple reaction to the fashion (looks great with your eyes, the cut makes your abs look flabby, etc) it's only proving the homophobia of the other--means they're probably in the closet themselves. Ask Freud. ;)

...Then you (as a metrosexual) don't have to 'prove' what a man you are by wearing busted up jeans and ripped t-shirts.

Of course, just wax your chest so your 'pectoralis majora appear much larger'... :p

Edit: Oh boy, Greg's online... Hope he has time for us!

What a bloody farcical society Bliar and co. are creating.
"We're going to crack down on bullies in schools, we're going to get tough on grime and the causes of grime ":rolleyes:

Yes, the teachers union person was interviewed on GMTV about this on tuesday, she was adament that the teacher should not get involved (except at the last minute)

But isn't this "you touched me - I'm going to sue you" attitude running alongside our "I can make free money here - money money money" society we have now? and I think that stems from the encouragement to get rich quick Thatcher era in the 80's with the stockmarket boom.

Col

Of course, just wax your chest so your 'pectoralis majora appear much larger'... :p

True... but you can't go shirtless everywhere--how could you get your slurpee at the 711? :p

In some seriousness, sometimes you (as a person) really DO feel comfortable in a busted up shirt and ragged jeans (I certainly have a pair from time to time). I wasn't attempting to insinuate that everyone who does is somehow wrong. But there's a certain level of care that, when taken, is good for both yourself and your partner. It helps your own self-image, compliments her by saying you're willing to go to a little extra trouble to look good, and believe it or not, wearing pink is a BRAVE thing to do--the flannel shirt is easy. ;)

~Chad

Ken: Just once I challenge you to wax your chest (don't worry it'll grow back in a month or two and doesn't actually hurt). Take a before picture and an after picture. You'd swear your pecs grew a couple inches in the after picture.

If wearing pink causes any sort of 'reaction' other than simple reaction to the fashion (looks great with your eyes, the cut makes your abs look flabby, etc)

well, if you fancy a night or 2 nursing broken bones and a smashed up face in hospital, feel free to wear a pink outfit - getting smashed up because you wanted to "buck the norm" really does make one wonder, I'll stick to the leather biker jacket with a flick knife in the pocket, pink's not my colour.

Col

Which is playing into the 'arrogant paranoid' BS that is social stigmata -- most of which has no basis in any kind of reality and sort of defeats the whole purpose.


No it isn't, I've worn pink shirts in my youth when it was fashionable, now it isn't, I guess you guys are just a few years behind the times :p

well, if you fancy a night or 2 nursing broken bones and a smashed up face in hospital, feel free to wear a pink outfit - getting smashed up because you wanted to "buck the norm" really does make one wonder, I'll stick to the leather biker jacket with a flick knife in the pocket, pink's not my colour.

Col

Just because it's 'the norm' doesn't mean its right. And how will it ever change if someone doesn't 'buck it' ? Gotta start somewhere. I suggest a pink outfit and titanium dress watch set off by a pair of matching titantium knuckles. ;)

No it isn't, I've worn pink shirts in my youth when it was fashionable, now it isn't, I guess you guys are just a few years behind the times :p

NewYork is never more than 3 weeks behind the fashion times :cool:. But just so you know, I wasn't somehow claiming pink shirts are the be-all-end-all of fashion. I was merely using them as what I thought would be an easily recognizable example of a type of fashion that most non-metro men would stay away from for reasons that have little to nothing to do with actual style (that being how the color looks on -you-).

~Chad

Ken: Just once I challenge you to wax your chest (don't worry it'll grow back in a month or two and doesn't actually hurt). Take a before picture and an after picture. You'd swear your pecs grew a couple inches in the after picture.

Thanks, but I'm good. I'll do the healthy diet and execize thing but I really don't see the need for bigger pecs :p . Now for a younger buck like yourself, trying to impress the ladies, I guess pecs are a big deal...

As for the sexual security thing - I think your hypothesis is weak at best...

Thanks, but I'm good. I'll do the healthy diet and execize thing but I really don't see the need for bigger pecs :p . Now for a younger buck like yourself, trying to impress the ladies, I guess pecs are a big deal...

Alright, alright... I'll give you that being married and all that probably takes a little of the edge of the need to be competitive. The first two (diet and exercise) are far more impt. anyway.

Just celebrated the 1yr with my little miss and I'll admit that I had a good 4 months during winter where I didn't wax because of the security of the relationship but now that it's night unto summer and we might be at the beach... well, I want to give her something to be proud of! :D

As for the sexual security thing - I think your hypothesis is weak at best...

Care to elaborate?

~Chad

NewYork is never more than 3 weeks behind the fashion times :cool:. But just so you know, I wasn't somehow claiming pink shirts are the be-all-end-all of fashion. I was merely using them as what I thought would be an easily recognizable example of a type of fashion that most non-metro men would stay away from for reasons that have little to nothing to do with actual style (that being how the color looks on -you-).

~Chad

I see pink shirts all the time around here. But, to be honest I never noticed them until my wife pointed them out. If she bought one and told me I looked ok in it, I wouldn't have any problem wearing it as long as it was comfortable. I doubt I would pick one out for myself though, as I guess I do prefer blues and browns, etc...

("titanium dress watch "? No wonder you can't afford kids :p )

("titanium dress watch "? No wonder you can't afford kids :p )

Oh please! Titanium is commonly used in watches these days. Look at any citizen or seiko product line. Those are the cheapest of the respectable watch lines. Any less and you can expect to be laughed out of a room for wearing it when you're next to $5000 Cartier's $8000 Movado's and $12000 Rolex's. A sturdy (as in last for the rest of your life) Seiko Titanium Kinetic Watch will run you about $140 if you know where to shop and you can hit it with a hammer and it'll keep on ticking. That and since it's in the kinetic line you'll never need a battery replaced which is both prudent and environmentally friendly. :D

~Chad

Alright, alright... I'll give you that being married and all that probably takes a little of the edge of the need to be competitive. The first two (diet and exercise) are far more impt. anyway.

Just celebrated the 1yr with my little miss and I'll admit that I had a good 4 months during winter where I didn't wax because of the security of the relationship but now that it's night unto summer and we might be at the beach... well, I want to give her something to be proud of! :D


I'm with you 100%. She must be a special girl. Hope you guys hook up...


Care to elaborate?

~Chad


Well, I suppose a definition of 'secure' would be in order. To me, secure means 'no doubt'. Is this acceptable to you?

I'm with you 100%. She must be a special girl. Hope you guys hook up...

That she is. :D Thankee!

Well, I suppose a definition of 'secure' would be in order. To me, secure means 'no doubt'. Is this acceptable to you?

MMhmm. :)

~Chad

Oh please! Titanium is commonly used in watches these days. Look at any citizen or seiko product line. Those are the cheapest of the respectable watch lines. Any less and you can expect to be laughed out of a room for wearing it when you're next to $5000 Cartier's $8000 Movado's and $12000 Rolex's. A sturdy (as in last for the rest of your life) Seiko Titanium Kinetic Watch will run you about $140 if you know where to shop and you can hit it with a hammer and it'll keep on ticking. That and since it's in the kinetic line you'll never need a battery replaced which is both prudent and environmentally friendly. :D

~Chad

Ok... My bad... I'm guessing my wife paid about that for the Seiko I have on :D

(Do expended watch batteries really cause that big of an environmental problem? :p )

Just because it's 'the norm' doesn't mean its right. And how will it ever change if someone doesn't 'buck it' ? Gotta start somewhere. I suggest a pink outfit and titanium dress watch set off by a pair of matching titantium knuckles. ;)
Fashion trends usually start with pop-stars or film stars.

Col

As for questioning the 'sexual identification' of metrosexuals it's actually just the opposite of what has been insinuated thusfar. Most metrosexuals are far more secure in their sexuality than your average man. Part of it is environmental--you tend to find metrosexuals in mostly urban settings where sexual liberation is less supressed. In less liberal settings (IE sub-urbanity), you have a considerably higher population of in-the-closet individuals and that leads to an overall greater insecurity for the population. Simple ignorance of the homosexual community (at least by extended experience with) and strong religious ties (almost all of which are anti-homosexual) also contribute to a greater sexual insecurity (by population).

Metrosexuals tend to have considerably more experience with the homosexual community (like me when I was an actor and the only straight man in a room of 50). In an environment like that everyone is free to be, whomever they want to be--the pressure that makes heterosexuality a 'preferable choice' (though sexual preference is never a choice but choosing to engage in hetero or homosexual activity can be argued to be a choice) is removed. So in that circumstance males tend get in touch with their own sexuality far more deeply only because there's no reason to hide.

Ok... So the way I'm reading this is that because a homosexual is affraid to come out of the closet in the town where I live, this somehow makes me less secure? That I begin to doubt the fact that I am attracted to ladies?

Fashion trends usually start with pop-stars or film stars.

Col

Oh you mean like James Dean and the leather jacket craze? :rolleyes:
~Chad

Ok... So the way I'm reading this is that because a homosexual is affraid to come out of the closet in the town where I live, this somehow makes me less secure? That I begin to doubt the fact that I am attracted to ladies?

Nope. That's why I added the bit about 'as a population.' That person lowers your percentage in the community, not you specifically. ;)

~Chad

Edit: It also sets up a precedence for dishonesty regarding sexual identity in these communities. That is not to say everyone is dishonest, merely that it is part of the system. As a data wrangler you know as well as I that you can't call data accurate if you change the data in 10% of your records just because they don't suit the numbers you want to report. It compromises the whole system to some extent.

Oh you mean like James Dean and the leather jacket craze? :rolleyes:
~Chad

Was he metrosexual?

Was he metrosexual?

Nope he was just off his gd-rocker. Lotta people did question his sexuality at some points but its neither here nor there.

~Chad

Nope. That's why I added the bit about 'as a population.' That person lowers your percentage in the community, not you specifically. ;)

~Chad

Ok you have me confused now.

One of the two pcs I drew difference with was 'Most metrosexuals are far more secure in their sexuality than your average man.' I think the exact opposite is true. I think some of you guys don't know what you want, a woman or a man, since you have said you yourself are teetering on becoming gay.

Ok you have me confused now.

One of the two pcs I drew difference with was 'Most metrosexuals are far more secure in their sexuality than your average man.' I think the exact opposite is true. I think some of you guys don't know what you want, a woman or a man, since you have said you yourself are teetering on becoming gay.

Please direct me to where I said that!

Sexuality is not something anyone can 'become.' I can't flip a switch and say 'okay I'm gay today' anymore than a closet case with a wife and kids can say he's straight.

~Chad

Edit: That 'confusion' bit -- see if the edit I added to a previous post makes it more clear.

Here is one place where I picked up on it:

Metro-SEXUAL to indicate a man who almost crosses the sexual preference line.

There have been several other lines else where. I just assumed you were contemplating it since I'm not sure what 'almost crossing' means...

Here is one place where I picked up on it:



There have been several other lines else where. I just assumed you were contemplating it since I'm not sure what 'almost crossing' means...

Ahh... That's my fault, I skipped too many logical steps.

"Metro-SEXUAL to indicate a man who almost crosses the sexual preference line. It's a terrible stereotype to assume that gay men are all chest-waxing fashion buffs and thus you have a serious divergance in the veracity of the term but, irregardless, it is what it is."

I went on to say that it is stereotypical to say that gay men are fashion buffs. In shorter terms, I was meaning to disprove the link between sexuality and fashion sense and to loop it back around capitalized SEXUAL so as not to strengthen but call attention to the 'serious divergence in the veracity of the term'. The direct sentence itself was one of the commonly (yet misconstrued) ideas of what a metrosexual is, not my personal definition.

Better? :)
~Chad

ok ok...

Maybe you need to just clarify 'sexuality'. I tend think of it a persons sexual orientation. For example, if I say I'm secure in my sexuality, that, I would think means that I know for sure that I only want to have a physical relationship with a woman. Is that what it means to you?

ok ok...

Maybe you need to just clarify 'sexuality'. I tend think of it a persons sexual orientation. For example, if I say I'm secure in my sexuality, that, I would think means that I know for sure that I only want to have a physical relationship with a woman. Is that what it means to you?

Yes, I would agree with that definition--my definition is something along the lines of: the sex of the species to whom an individual of the species is sexually attracted to. This is to say 'sex' not 'gender' as the terms are not precisely equivalent (as indicated by the headaches I had with some of our administrators this past winter). This is of course completely unreleated to the concepts of gender identity or sexual identity, as well.

~Chad

Most metrosexuals are far more secure in their sexuality than your average man.

So you are saying that chances are (the 'most' part), you and / or your metro buddies, have far less doubt that you like women, than say me and some of my friends?

So you are saying that chances are (the 'most' part), you and / or your metro buddies, have far less doubt that you like women, than say me and some of my friends?

Well doubt is a very gray term and I have a feeling this'll come back to bite me later if I argue with it but I'll try, for now.

It's difficult to quanitfy doubt but I'll attempt--let's try to do so using nano-seconds of conscious thought given to one's sexuality as percieved by oneself or the outside world (IOW, time of all thought given to personal sexuality). We'll also be using the hot-pink shirt as our standard (even though I feel it's a poor example in and of itself).

In this way one could say that the amount of doubt == amount of time spent considering sexuality on any given sexuality related subject. The more time that is spent the more doubt exists. (EG. An individual with little to no doubt the Earth is round spends little to no time considering the shape of the Earth when posed with any subject pertaining to the aforemention globe)

I would rationalize that a stereotypical metro who recieved a hot-pink shirt for christmas would spend less time considering his sexuality (internal or percieved) while wearing that shirt than a stereotypical southern suburbanite.

EG. the thought "That'd make me look gay!" or something similar would be more likely to pass throug the suburbanite's head whereas the metro is less likely to give consideration (time) to being assigned a sexuality in his/her clothing choices.

This has the result of making the suburbanite more consciously aware of their own sexuality and thus 'more doubtful.'

There. I feel like it was pieced together with duct tape, bailin' wire and WD40, but give it a chew if you would.

~Chad

So the more a person tries to stay away from things that they perceive as gay, the closer to gay that actually makes them?

(FYI- WD40 is best used when trying to get things apart, not when trying to put them together :D )

I see pink shirts all the time around here.

What shade of mascara were they wearing?

So the more a person tries to stay away from things that they perceive as gay, the closer to gay that actually makes them?

Actually, that's different than simply doubting one's sexuality. I don't think it is possible to be 'closer' or 'less close' to sexual preference. You just sort-of are what you are. Your security in your sexuality and actual sexuality are both psychological but your actual sexuality is a bit more hardwired in your genetic makeup wheras your security is environmental.

I was horridly insecure for YEARS because I was a midwesterner who was a talented artist and was constantly accused of being 'gay' as though it was some horrid thing to be (mostly because I didn't enjoy football). Do you remember that story I told you back in October about the break-in at my apartment where the assaulters were out to 'get the queer?' I was constantly seeking 'manish' things to somehow prove my horridly insecure sexuality. Then a few years ago I just sort of let go obsessing about it, accepted that having gay friends and being in that community didn't make me gay and accepted my own sense of sexuality to the point where I didn't ever need to think about it when making a decision in my life.

The fact that any time and energy at all is spent seeking to 'stay away' from something indicates that a vulnerability is felt--as though somehow one feels they could be 'affected' (struggled for a moment there not to use 'infected') by that 'thing' (in this case sexuality). If you were 100% sure that you could not / would not be affected then you would have no cause to 'stay away' from it because it wouldn't matter.

Think of your security as a tank. If it is truly impenatrable (100% secure) then you should be able to drive it anywhere, including right to the doorstep of the 'enemy' and not even a few nuclear warheads would affect you. However, if you are insecure, cracks start to develop in the armour. Suddenly there are places to break the treads, etc. The more insecure you are the more capable you are of being affected / disabled, etc. So it stands to reason that the more insecure you are the more likely you are to 'stay away' from that which you feel could affect you. Those who seek to 'stay away' actively belie a great uncertainty in their own security.

What you described is actually a classic case (for which thousands and thousands of psychology papers have been written) of the utterly fragile male ego.


(FYI- WD40 is best used when trying to get things apart, not when trying to put them together :D )

@baps@ :mad: I know that! It's a term (maybe just theatrical?) -- you can supposedly build the world or tear it down with just three ingredients. ;)

~Chad

(FYI- WD40 is best used when trying to get things apart, not when trying to put them together :D )

Not strictly true, sometimes male and female components need a little lubrication to assist with their union :cool:

Not strictly true, sometimes male and female components need a little lubrication to assist with their union :cool:

Hehe. Good one. ;)

So just how much male body hair does one have to remove these days to be a metrosexual.
Also is the term metrosexual someting one gains on the underground, as in the same way one joins the mile high club? :confused:

This seems to be a reasonable proposition on the surface but I still doubt that a straight city guy is anymore confident in their sexual preference than anyone else, least of all a normal southern guy.

Instead, I propose that maybe straight city guys, like yourself, have elected to reject a life where things have been hard. You migrate to the city where others, gays included, migrate to after having found life in the suburbs 'uncomfortable'. Now you're all together with the common distaste for suburbia. You confide in each other and one of the unwritten resolutions is to be more tolerant, especially tolerant of the others sexual preferences.

Being able to speaking more openly about gay sex, breeds an environment where a person goes from feeling un-easy about it to, eventually speaking at considerable ease. Whereas in the past it wasn't as easy. This sense of comfort is equated as confidence. And this, in my humble opinion, is what a metrosexual may be feeling - That they are more open minded and un-inhibited when it comes to gay lifestyles in general.

(FYI - Bailing wire is so old school. Duct tape & WD40! :p )

Wish, I could find something better but this'll have to do on short notice:

http://health.yahoo.com/centers/personality/1699

The male ego is a very fragile thing. It takes a lot of guts to be brave. I'm not 'tolerant' as an agreement with gays who are 'tolerant' of my heterosexuality! We're not at war for christssake!

Comfort, Ken, is directly related to confidence as interpreted by just about every major school of psychology. You will not be comfortable in things you are not confident in, and visa versa. So I guess, in this statement you are correct -- comfort IS equated to confidence (as it should be).

I moved out of Southeastern Missouri because it was an artistically dead zone. Because it was closed minded and conservative (art has no place in that culture because the nature of art is to force openmindedness). Everyone who moves from any place they've ever been has had a reason for moving. You're attempting to string together completely unrelated circumstances.

There are plenty of metrosexuals who don't have a single gay friend they 'confide in.' There are plenty of metrosexuals who have never been outside the city! Where's the 'distaste for suburbia' in those individuals!?!

C'mon Ken. You're making the kind of mistake on this one that /I/ usually make. ;)

I'm ready to go to war on this baby and believe you me when I tell you I'm loading my guns with Kinsey, Freud, and a whole host of other mostly indisputed text-book-writing phsychologists and psychiatrists. :D

~Chad

So just how much male body hair does one have to remove these days to be a metrosexual.
Also is the term metrosexual someting one gains on the underground, as in the same way one joins the mile high club? :confused:

@rolls@ I dunno. I mean each person has their own definition. You don't HAVE to wax your chest to be a metro (plenty of fellas don't, it's a matter of preference in what shows you off best--I have a more slight body type so I work the 'youth' aspect more). But if you have a unibrow, you better be cleaning it up or no one'll call you a metro.

It just sorta happens as to how you know. So I guess it's underground. Though were you to wax your chest Rich you would officially be inducted into the Metro crowd as it is a decidedly metro action. I guess induction into the club is a little of both. Either slide in with just keeping up the appearance to a slightly better than 'respectable' look or with the occasional blaring act like a chest waxing.

Remember gay is an orientation, not a lifestyle as it related to outward appearance. Many gay men wear clothes that any straight man could wear and never be called 'gay' in -- like a nice black Versace suit. 'Gay culture' is not a requirement unless you want to classify something like filing your nails with an actual emery board as part of 'gay culture.' But then its your classification of 'gay culture' that should be brought into question.

~Chad

Would you wear a Freudian slip as a metrosexual? :confused:

Would you wear a Freudian slip as a metrosexual? :confused:

Cute. I think that slips probably don't count as they are officially and decidedly made for the feminine form. Dress shirts are made for men. I think if you started wearing slips, Rich, we'd call you a 'transsexual' instead of a metrosexual however even 'trannie' is a misleading catch-all term that could stand to be broken.

The gender identity of the mind still is independent of sexual preference -- for example, a man with femine features who is sexually attracted women but prefers women with more masculine features. This man, during sex, might enjoy being anally stimulated by his wife wearing a strap-on dildo. Believe it or not, this doesn't make the man gay at all! It just means that this particular fellow has a gender identity that is closer to femininity and his partner, assuming she enjoys wearing the strap on, has a more masculine gender identity.

A good deal of sexual and / or gender philosophy tends to center around finding partners that balance the scale.

~Chad

...I'm ready to go to war on this baby and believe you me when I tell you I'm loading my guns with Kinsey, Freud, and a whole host of other mostly indisputed text-book-writing phsychologists and psychiatrists. :D

~Chad

Whatever...

Just seemed a bit arrogant, even for you, to proclaim that you're more sexually secure that most others because you have more gay friends and that you wear a pink shirt without thinking twice...


FYI - Save it: :D

Biography
Sigmund Freud was born May 6, 1856...


....Unfortunately, Freud had a penchant for rejecting people who did not totally agree with him.

I Googled Freud and metrosexual and didn't get any hits. Even tried Frued and pink shirt, chestwaxing, etc... Nothing. So I'm assuming his work in those areas are limited. :p

I don't follow what the link had to do with our discusion...but in trying to get a quick look at the author's reasoning and something seemed odd:

The gendered classification of social reality is all-pervasive but at its most profound in dictating how we experience sexual desire. In her book, The Lenses of Gender (Yale University Press), Bem argues that polarization mistakenly lumps all men together and all women together, obliterating the true diversity of impulses that "naturally exists within each sex and the overlap that naturally exists between the two sexes." Among them: erotic interest in people of both sexes, the wish to don vibrant colors and silky textures, feelings of nurturance toward a child.

If I wanted to exaimine something existed "within each sex and the overlap that naturally exists between the two sexes.", wouldn't I want to lump the information on men in one group and then likewise with the women?
Then maybe put it all together??

What'd I miss?

This man, during sex, might enjoy being anally stimulated by his wife
So might a great deal of ordinary men :eek:

Whatever...

Just seemed a bit arrogant, even for you, to proclaim that you're more sexually secure that most others because you have more gay friends and that you wear a pink shirt without thinking twice...

I don't think I ever said 'because I have more gay friends' because that clearly has nothing to do with sexual security but the fact that I'm not driven 'away from' gays indicates that my own sexual orientation isn't under the threat of influence from an outside source, which is to say, I am secure.

The same can be said for taking interest in things that have long since fallen to the way side of 'male taboo' such as a manicure or wearing a bright color. This gruff idealist 'southern man' you speak of is limited by his insecurity in that he can't go get a nice pedicure or wax his chest because of his own fear of being percieved as having an alternate sexual orientation.

Oi! Where's Idjit when I need that preschooler!?! I cannot stress enough that you are presenting the EXACT classical case for male sexual insecurity. It is in the same vein of psychological motivation as buying a ridiculously expensive sports car because your penis is tiny.

I Googled Freud and metrosexual and didn't get any hits. Even tried Frued and pink shirt, chestwaxing, etc... Nothing. So I'm assuming his work in those areas are limited. :p

Metrosexual is not a phsychology term. It's a buzz word that is used to sub-classify straight males who basically reject one of the tenents of insecurity found in the overwhelming male population. I think you need to look into ego, superego, masculinity, insecurity, egocentricity, etc. This argument has little to do with pink shirts and chest waxing and you damn well know it.

~Chad

So might a great deal of ordinary men :eek:

Umm... that's what I was trying to say -- this fellow IS an ordinary man who happens to have a stronger feminine sexual gender identity than others. Doesn't make him a woman in the mind.

~chad

Gender polarization also becomes the single most important dimension around which personality and individual identity is organized. But by expanding the meaning of what it is to be male or female beyond the biological, it generates deep insecurity about one's maleness or femaleness. It becomes something that must constantly be worked on, protected from loss.

So one has to begin to imagine what is 'loss.' Since the need to protect 'maleness' is the definition of insecurity, what must it be protected from? Your individuals who want to 'get away' from homosexuality are protecting themselves from it -- the definition of insecurity.

This burden falls disproportionately on men, since androcentrism devalues feelings or behaviors culturally defined as female and punishes men who have them.

This is the source of the stigmata against pink or what you might try to call 'homosexual behavior.'

So they wind up becoming gender caricatures and homophobes, deeming homosexual impulses unnatural and abhorrent because they so threaten the shaky enterprise of male identity.

Your gruff southern man is an example of the gender caricature/homophobe.

Not everyone accepts the "presumed naturalness of the link between the sex of the body and the gender of the psyche," however. There are "gender subversives," primarily homosexuals, who manage to escape the distorting lenses of the culture. If Bem is right, they are the leaders of a necessary psychological revolution.

Notice 'primarily homosexuals.' The homosexuals already started that necessary psychological revolution. Metrosexuals are one of the results of that revolution -- men brave enough to escape cultural stigma. It's completely and utterly impossible so long as the insecurity binds one to the caricatures described above.

--------
But Ken, keep in mind that not everyone who is a gruff country boy is submitting themselves to carciature! IOW, I'm not calling you a closet case! But if your masculinity IS threatened by being in the company of a homosexual community or taking actions (like waxing a chest) that are considered 'homosexual' then I have every right to cry 'Insecure!' And plenty of metro's are insecure in plenty of other ways. This is just one microcosm example.

If you don't want to wax your chest then don't! But don't stop because of what the guys at the office would think. Do it for your own reason--like how you enjoy braiding it. :eek:

~Chad

I don't think I ever said 'because I have more gay friends' because that clearly has nothing to do with sexual security but the fact that I'm not driven 'away from' gays indicates that my own sexual orientation isn't under the threat of influence from an outside source, which is to say, I am secure.

Seems to me that if you aren't driven away froms gays a much as the next guy, then you'd have more gay friends.

The same can be said for taking interest in things that have long since fallen to the way side of 'male taboo' such as a manicure or wearing a bright color. This gruff idealist 'southern man' you speak of is limited by his insecurity in that he can't go get a nice pedicure or wax his chest because of his own fear of being percieved as having an alternate sexual orientation.

In my opinion, we all have a limit, we just elect to draw our lines in the sand in different places. One guy don't do pink shirts, the other guy may not wear a thong to the beach... Even you have displayed a degree of what you label as insecurity by being prompt and clear on correcting me that you were not, in fact contemplating a gay lifestyle.

Oi! Where's Idjit when I need that preschooler!?! I cannot stress enough that you are presenting the EXACT classical case for male sexual insecurity. It is in the same vein of psychological motivation as buying a ridiculously expensive sports car because your penis is tiny.

So you're saying I have this psychological condition?


Metrosexual is not a phsychology term. It's a buzz word that is used to sub-classify straight males who basically reject one of the tenents of insecurity found in the overwhelming male population. I think you need to look into ego, superego, masculinity, insecurity, egocentricity, etc. This argument has little to do with pink shirts and chest waxing and you damn well know it.
~Chad

uh... That was kind of a pun. Sorry...

Umm... that's what I was trying to say -- this fellow IS an ordinary man who happens to have a stronger feminine sexual gender identity than others. Doesn't make him a woman in the mind.

~chad
So in other words metrosexuality is the new buzz word for effeminacy?
I don't see how a male enjoying anal stimulation makes him feminine :confused:

I don't see how a male enjoying anal stimulation makes him feminine :confused:

... :eek:

What happend to my thread...... :D

It's been gang raped....................

Sorry guys, you can have it back... Chad's beating me up pretty good anyway! :p

So in other words metrosexuality is the new buzz word for effeminacy?
I don't see how a male enjoying anal stimulation makes him feminine :confused:

Femininity and having a more feminine gender polarization are different concepts. In phsychological terms maleness is active while femine is passive (which again need be careful semantic ground to be tread upon -- this doesn't mean females are passive but a 'feminine trait' is simply a term a trait that is passive). This is more easly simplified into mechanical terms -- the male and the feminine coupling of two mechanical parts. The female part is the recipient of the male part. A man who likes having anything be it a finger or a dildo or a football up his rear has a stronger gender polarization towards femininity in sex than a man who does not.

Oi. I can't stress enough to all y'all how the world of psychological semantics does not intersect your everyday broad ideas of these words. Gender polarization of the mind towards femininity in one aspect does not mean you're going to go walk around with a limp wrist!

~Chad

Seems to me that if you aren't driven away froms gays a much as the next guy, then you'd have more gay friends.

Attraction and friendship are not equivalent, Ken. Everyone you are not 'driven away' from would then, by your reasoning, be your friend and everyone who is not your friend you would be 'driven away.' Your argument doesn't hold water.

In my opinion, we all have a limit, we just elect to draw our lines in the sand in different places. One guy don't do pink shirts, the other guy may not wear a thong to the beach... Even you have displayed a degree of what you label as insecurity by being prompt and clear on correcting me that you were not, in fact contemplating a gay lifestyle.

I'm not saying that I don't have my own insecurities, everyone does. But the whole point of this argument is to say that a metrosexual male is on average more secure in sexuality than a non-metrosexual male. The reasoning behind this has been given time and time again. Yes, each person has their 'line in the sand' but the motivation for drawing that line is what determines whether or not it plays into the argument.

I have long beheld that if pink isn't your color because it doesn't look good on you or you had some childhood traumatic experience with a pink elephant or ANY OTHER REASON than the supposed 'homosexuality or effiminacy' of the clothing then it's not an issue. If you don't want to wear a thong at the beach because you find having a string up your a** uncomfortable then I can say - so do I and agree with you. It's not the in/action that concerns me as much as the motivation for the in/action.

However, I will contest you that I have displayed any kind of insecurity in simply correcting you from making an assumption that was leading you to draw inappropriate conclusions. Moreso, the fact that you continue to insist that it is a lifestyle instead of proven genetic predispositioning belies a scientific ignorance that I have taken upon myself to correct you of whenever possible. The swiftness of my reply has little to nothing to do with my level of 'security,' and has everything to do with cauterizing the wound before it bleeds too long. As for clear, I have found that I must be crystal when having such discussions with you as you will spin and run anything you can get your grubby little hands on.... like any good debater... :D

So you're saying I have this psychological condition?

No Ken. I don't make assumptions about other people, at least I try not to, and when I do, I certainly don't want to make a statement (IE KenHigg is 'blah'). I don't claim to know all your motivations because I'm not inside your head. Do I have suspicions ? Certainly. Much of your dialogue thus far has indicated a severe fear of homosexuality. Fear of that is strongly indicative of an insecurity in ones own sexuality. That is not to say I suspect you are gay. Insecurities stem from all sorts of regions from physical characteristics to marital environments all the way down to simple depression. But my suspicions aside, it's not my place to play shrink so I won't attempt to label you as a typically insecure male. Only you have control of why you do what you do.

uh... That was kind of a pun. Sorry...
Ahh... sorry in turn for biting your head off about it! :(

~Chad

Sorry guys, you can have it back... Chad's beating me up pretty good anyway! :p

*cracks his knuckles*

Who wants some? I'm king of this mountain now!! Mmmwhahaha! :D
~Chad

A man who likes having anything be it a finger or a dildo or a football up his rear has a stronger gender polarization towards femininity in sex than a man who does not.


~Chad
Claptrap, a man who likes having his chest waxed is either a fetishist or effeminate :p

... :eek:

What happend to my thread...... :D
Well you did bring up the subject of dripping hot candle wax :eek: :p

Well you did bring up the subject of dripping hot candle wax :eek: :p

Ahem....not sure if it's important or not but I have just found some wax on our sofa in the living room that we missed on our first inspection... :mad:

Ahem....not sure if it's important or not but I have just found some wax on our sofa in the living room that we missed on our first inspection... :mad:

Are you sure you missed it on the first inspection? There are several other explanations as to why it's there now!

Are you sure you missed it on the first inspection? There are several other explanations as to why it's there now!

Ok enlighten me!

As I mentioned earlier in the post, all I remember is going for a nice romantic meal then waking up the next morning with candle wax everwhere... :eek:

Next year my mother is not getting the door key, the house will probably burn down at the rate were going..... :D

Ok... I know I'm going to regret asking this - But what is your official street definition of a 'metrosexual'?

We'll Ken, do you regret asking?..... :D

... Much of your dialogue thus far has indicated a severe fear of homosexuality. Fear of that is strongly indicative of an insecurity in ones own sexuality.

You're delusional. I have no more of a fear of homosexuals than you have a fear of say, I don't know... Catholics? You seem to disagree with their lifestyle. Or does that make you spiritually insecure?



We'll Ken, do you regret asking?.....


Nah, It was pretty good dialog for a while...

(Anyone know where I can get a good deal on a Countach? :p )

You're delusional. I have no more of a fear of homosexuals than you have a fear of say, I don't know... Catholics? You seem to disagree with their lifestyle. Or does that make you spiritually insecure?

Then why are you so insistent on your need to 'get away' from gays or 'gay culture' ?

Seems to me that if you aren't driven away froms gays a much as the next guy, then you'd have more gay friends.

You have openly admitted in multiple posts across multiple threads how you don't want the 'gay lifestyle' around you. If you were completely secure, Ken, then why would it matter at all whether it was or was not near your proximity. In other words, you would not feel threatened. Homosexuality challenges the gender caricature you have idolized. For whatever deep-seated, unknowing reason you have, it clearly has the power to affect you to the point of lashing out at people in an attempt to drive it away.

But, I digress. I've said this all before and I'm not going to bother repeating it over and over. If you want to continue idolizing your gender caricature and being under the constant threat of a 'gay lifestyle' invasion, worry not, millions of American men have paved the way and life turned out just fine for them.

As for my own insecurities - yes, I certainly have them. Specifically my greed. I had a set of Catholics offer me $150 000 if I'd just 'return to the church to save my soul.' So I got away from that. Because I am greedy because I know what its like to be poor and I didn't want my own financial insecurity to motivate my decisions in life especially one as important as a spiritual decision.

But, in any case, attempting to call up an unreleated subject is low--it's nothing more than a diversion that you need. Like trying to say my view was skewed because of relationships I may or may not have with members of the homosexual community. I'm presenting a solid scientifically backed argument. You present 'personal thesis' and smoke and mirrors. At some point, however, I can't continue to restate these things. At some point I have to just let you go off believing what you want to believe. That's your right, and part of your defense mechanism -- the final feral charge to make sure the invading creature doesn't return all while beating your chest and proclaiming your 'masculinity' to the world.

So take that for what you will. This is my last post on this thread. Your insecurities and prejudices have been shown to me and are visible to any other individual with enough self-security to not be threated by the arguments presented. Those who share the same insecurities, those like yourself, won't see it. And that's fine, I guess. There is some small truth to the idea that if you wake up and tell yourself you're happy and safe every morning, that you'll begin to believe it.

Regards,
~Chad

This is my last post on this thread.

You want to get a life matey. I've seen this before, I haven't bothered reading any of the posts related to this discussion, so I am not making any comments about yours or anyone else's views.

My comment is about your use of the "last post" Threat, it just establish's in my mind anyway, that you are using this forum to hone your argument, you refuse to accept that somebody else has different views to you. And you cannot understand why their views will not change by the use of your argument so you make a personal attack and then say "last post" personally I would not enter into any further discussion on this subject with this person.

I think all this psychological claptrap is a load of bo**ocks! ;)

Anyone male wanting to wear a pink outfit out just to "buck the trend" must be deficient in the brain cell dept, or like being beaten up, or be effeminate. Likewise any male waxing their chest just to "look good and feel good" must also have something of an Adonis fettish - they think they're gods gift to women (and men) - anyway plenty of females hate smooth male skin and prefer the unwaxed version. I've seen plenty of young males strutting about like peacocks in town on an evening thinking they are the dogs bo**ocks little realising what total prats they look.
People who spend hours thinking about and analysing all this need to get a bloody life, most of us have too many other more important things to worry about.

BTW it wasn't James Dean who brought the leather jacket to popularity, it was Marlon Brando in On The Waterfront. I wear a leather jacket on my motorbike for safety reasons as do many bikers.

Other examples of pop star fashion picked up by the populace include

Beatle Jackets (with no collar)
Beatle Boots
Mini skirt - various 60's female singers + fashion designer Mary Quant of course.
Dave Clark roll neck shirt
Punk - various bands from the 70's

Col

I wear a leather jacket on my motorbike for safety reasons as do many bikers.

Now if I adopt this person's reasoning:

You don't really have a motorbike for transportation purposes, you have it so that you can wear a leather jacket and hang out at the pub with a load of other guys who are presumed to be gay, because they like hanging around in groups of blokes!

Now if I adopt this person's reasoning:

You don't really have a motorbike for transportation purposes, you have it so that you can wear a leather jacket and hang out at the pub with a load of other guys who are presumed to be gay, because they like hanging around in groups of blokes!

I can just imagine saying to my friends "do you like my pink outfit? oh by the way, does anybody else chest-wax?" - bloody 'ell - I'd be lynched :D

Wonder what people would think of George Bush if he wore a pink outfit to "buck the trend"? heaven forbid, people would think he's a joke :D ;)

I see the British are sending 5000 troops to Afghanistan to help out the Yanks :rolleyes: who can't seem to manage on their own. ;) :p ;)

Col

This might be a safer option than candle wax! (http://www.pierresilber.com/liquidlatex2.html)

That site is blocked by our firewall Uncle G :eek:

Col

I see the British are sending 5000 troops to Afghanistan to help out the Yanks :rolleyes: who can't seem to manage on their own. ;) :p ;)

Col

I wonder how many will venture onto the street of Afghanistan dressed in pink? :confused: :D

That site is blocked by our firewall Uncle G :eek:
Col

Oh Dear! Well its not rude!

I'll see if I can upload the pic's, this is the text:
1 GALLON OF LIQUID LATEX
LIQUID LATEX paints directly onto the body or other surfaces and dries in minutes to create a smooth, shiny latex rubber coating.
LIQUID LATEX can be used for creating wearable garments, for mask making, for costuming, for dressing up for your favorite sporting events or for creating fun body decorations on children or adults. The possibilities are endless!

Ok so I got the candle wax of the sofa and the........oh Bugger who cares?

.... :eek: ...perhaps I shouldn't say "Bugger" on this threat. :D

I wonder how many will venture onto the street of Afghanistan dressed in pink? :confused: :D

LOL :D

The enemy would die from splitting their sides rolling around on the floor laughing !!!!

lmfao

I wonder how many will venture onto the street of Afghanistan dressed in pink? :confused: :D
Well, I get the impression it may be standard issue for American troops who wish to make a fashion statement instead of wearing the boring army colours. They're so drab don't you think? :D ;)

Col

Ok so I got the candle wax of the sofa and the........oh Bugger who cares?
Ground - just get the wife to do it, women are supposed to do the cleaning anyway ;) thats why we married them isn't it?

Col

Ground - just get the wife to do it, women are supposed to do the cleaning anyway ;) thats why we married them isn't it?

Col

I think i'll keep that comment to myself.. :D

Despite the fact that she was the one that made all the mess it's my fault because I gave the door key to my Mother... :rolleyes:

Ground - just get the wife to do it, women are supposed to do the cleaning anyway thats why we married them isn't it?

well said Col ... hope my girlfriend won't be reading this :D

Despite the fact that she was the one that made all the mess it's my fault because I gave the door key to my Mother... :rolleyes:
Ground - its never their fault, somehow the blame always comes back to us. :rolleyes:it would still be your fault even if you were hundreds of miles away at the time she did it. Get used to it, it'll never change

Col

it would still be your fault even if you were hundreds of miles away at the time she did it. Get used to it, it'll never change

Another well said Col ... it seems you're talking from experience :p

Well, I get the impression it may be standard issue for American troops who wish to make a fashion statement instead of wearing the boring army colours. They're so drab don't you think? :D ;)

Col

Are you sure you're not turning into a metrosexual?
As an aside I hear that the US is threatening Germany with trade sanctions if they don't send troops to Afghanistan.
What with the Americans in pink and the Germans in leather, hell anything could happen :eek: :D

Despite the fact that she was the one that made all the mess it's my fault because I gave the door key to my Mother... :rolleyes:

Well look, you can soon find out if she's an understanding wife, just let slip that you're a metrosexual and would like to start taking her out in a pink latex outfit, I should leave out the chest waxing part for the minute.

... I'm presenting a solid scientifically backed argument.

Horse feathers. You've read a couple chapters from psychology 101 and now you think you're Dr Phil...

Horse feathers. You've read a couple chapters from psychology 101 and now you think you're Dr Phil...

What most psychologists forget, (I think I should qualify that, would-be psychologists) is that psychology is about people. Most people have a good grasp of psychology because it's part of life. We learn by default with everyday interaction with people.

Now if there are any legitimate psychologists reading this, I have a small problem that I would like to discuss with them. Ever since a particular episode of Red Dwarf, I get unnatural feelings about a vacuum cleaner. Occasionally I get a double Polaroid. (Sorry that was a misprint, triple Polaroid)

I get unnatural feelings about a vacuum cleaner.

Yeah, nothing sucks like an Electrolux!

Yes, even wax spilled on a couch or two.

Yes, even wax spilled on a couch or two.
I wonder if it does the same for chest hair? :confused:

Are you sure you're not turning into a metrosexual?
Metrosexual, my a*se!!! Its simple, if you wax chest hair and go out in a pink outfit - you're weird, no question :eek: I reckon its just another fad thing the Americans thought up ;) I'd never heard of it till last week on this site - as I said, its all bo**ocks, there's too much of this analysis and amateur psychology crap in todays world.

As an aside I hear that the US is threatening Germany with trade sanctions if they don't send troops to Afghanistan.
not surprised, the Americans haven't invaded anywhere for a while so they may as well pass the time threatening european countries
What with the Americans in pink and the Germans in leather, hell anything could happen :eek: :D
So how many American men go around in a pink outfit in say, downtown New York (that are not pimps)?

Col

So how many American men go around in a pink outfit in say, downtown New York (that are not pimps)?

Col

That's difficult to answer now that Starkers & Crutch are no longer on the streets

I wonder if it does the same for chest hair? :confused:

Guess that depends on how much hair is left after spilling the wax :D

I wonder if one could duck tape the hair off your chest? :eek: That would make 100 and 2 uses for the stuff... :D

What the h*ck is duck tape ?

Very popular in the States (Or at least the south :p ) Can be found in every handi-mans tool box :D VERY STICKY!

http://homepage1.nifty.com/kouzai/images3/duck_tape.jpg
http://mademelaugh.com/pix/ducttapebabysit.jpg

Oh now I see, we refer to it as stage tape, since we use that to tape amplifier / microphone lines to the stage when doing a gig with the band.

I guess that , one who uses that to tear off chest hair , will tear off at least
200 μm of the skin. That hurts! So Groundrush would better leave the wax in stead of taping it.

Do sane men wax their chest hairs in the Netherlands?

Only when on stage !!

Hum... Chad did say he did some acting...

Wonder where and what type acting he does?....

Wonder where and what type acting he does?....

His sexual fantasies, out on the streets? :eek:

Well.... maybe stage tape acting, but that requires a tape recorder rather than
duck tape. :confused:

Duck tape recorder? Or duck tape re-order...

More like duck tape disorder.

Taped duck recorder ?

Would that be a 'taped duck' or a 'duck recorder'?

Taped duck, Ken. Just like you do on the BBQ. Tape the bl*dy duck and "boil" it, instead of roasting it.
Oh, that's an alternative for the chest hair, just roast it off instead of using the taped duck recorder manner.

There's yet another twist - 'Chest Hare' - A rabbit as big as a chest. Like the rabbit in Alice in chest hare land...

Would that make them metroducks? ducks with no hair on their chest?

This thread is calling my name, Ken? Huh. Um...is there something specific you wanted my insight on?

Considering the enormity of this thread started by Groundrush, I found this quite hilarious:

Whoever posts anything about mobile phones should be shot
:D

Well, since you are (as best as I can remember), openly gay and also, might I add, seem to be quite comfortable with it (being open), I was wondering if you think that if a person (you can take me as an example), elects to teach their kids that it may not be an appropriate lifestyle (just in my mind only!), would you think that this would indicate that I have doubts about my own sexual preference?

To be uncharacteristically brief: Maybe.

But if you wanted brief, you knew better than to ask me. :D So here goes:

Even by my standards, I have a lot to say on the subject, but I will try to avoid tangents or broadening the scope of the discusison. I would like to start out by saying that it is very difficult to discuss this topic on neutral terms since just about every word associated with the homosexuality has some kind of negative semantic. So if I use wording that carries implications with it please assume that those implications do not apply unless specifically stated.

Basically, you and Chad are both right and both wrong. Your point of view does not automatically qualify you as a closeted homosexual or insecure or homophobe or whatever. There are a lot of reasons why a person might have a negative opinion about homosexuality: personal morality, religious belief, a negative encounter with a homosexual, misconception/ignorance, insecurity, sexual identity issues, etc. Homophobia by reason of insecure sexuality is simply the most famous and most ironic example, and arguably the most prevalent. It is true that often a closeted homosexual will be the most visciously outspoken opponent of homosexual lifestyles, but it is logically invalid to infer the opposite.

On the other hand, I think that Chad has a point about the relationship between being confident with your own sexuality and being comfortable with other sexual preferences. People who have become comfortable with their own sexuality, especially those who have "deviant" sexual preferences, tend to be very confident and open when it comes to sex (although this is not a guarantee, either). A year ago, I would have been freaked out by the idea of doing some of the things I did a month ago. But trying different things has helped me be more comfortable with things I didn't used to be, even if after I try them I can say, "That's not for me". But I now know the people who do enjoy them are not weird or freaks or wrong.

I hope that answers the question. It's so hard no to go into lengthy rants...

BTW, I think Chad deserves some respect in the area of psychology since he has a degree in the subject. I think his knowledge goes beyond someone who "thinks he's Dr. Phil" (like me :D).

BTW, I think Chad deserves some respect in the area of psychology since he has a degree in the subject. I think his knowledge goes beyond someone who "thinks he's Dr. Phil" (like me :D).

Sorry, Kudos Chad.

Kraj - Thanks for letting me sneak out of this discussion with a tiny bit of self-respect...
:D

No prob. Kudos to you for discussing a subject the gets under your skin without gettin' all fired up.

BTW, did I mention I hate the term metrosexual? :mad:

No prob. Kudos to you for discussing a subject the gets under your skin without gettin' all fired up.

I owe it all to you ;)


BTW, did I mention I hate the term metrosexual? :mad:

I'm kind of hesitant to use it outside of the forum :D

Well it's just plain stupid. It's like a super-concentrated stereotype. Let's see... how can we reinforce the gay vs. straight and urban vs. rural seterotypes while coining a completely unnecessary term for a straight man who cares about his appearance, riding the fad success of Queer Eye, encouraging an increase in the market for men's cosmetics to help us get rich, and simultaneously make anyone with an iota of intelligence want to vomit? I've got it....!

would you think that this would indicate that I have doubts about my own sexual preference?

Nah, you're just becoming Metrosexual :eek:

Nah, you're just becoming Metrosexual :eek:

Seems it's just bad juju to do grouping and labels at all. Don't we have enough division...

Seems it's just bad juju to do grouping and labels at all. Don't we have enough division...

Too true, I don't care what anybodys sexuality is, as long as their not male and have me in their sights :D

Too true, I don't care what anybodys sexuality is, as long as their not male and have me in their sights :D

Well said Richard!

(Edit- O dear...It's the lack of a diet coke...I'm starting to agree with him... :eek: )

Too true, I don't care what anybodys sexuality is, as long as their not male and have me in their sights :D
And that's a problem because...? It's it too horrifying to have to politely utter the phrase, "No thank you, I'm not interested." once in a while?

And that's a problem because...? It's it too horrifying to have to politely utter the phrase, "No thank you, I'm not interested." once in a while?

Because some members of society just won't take no for an answer, that includes females too of course ;)

And that's a problem because...? It's it too horrifying to have to politely utter the phrase, "No thank you, I'm not interested." once in a while?

((Hum... Why does that sound familiar?))

Because some members of society just won't take no for an answer, that includes females too of course ;)
Then the problem is with the sleazeballs that won't take no for an answer; their sexuality has nothing to do with it.

((Hum... Why does that sound familiar?))
I give up. Why?

...I give up. Why?

"No thank you, I'm not interested." I'm guessing I may have heard it a time or two whilst hitting on super model looking chickies many moons ago while chugging suds... :eek: :D

Then the problem is with the sleazeballs that won't take no for an answer;

But they don't see themselves as sleazeballs, desire is often overwhelming

Well it's just plain stupid. It's like a super-concentrated stereotype. Let's see... how can we reinforce the gay vs. straight and urban vs. rural seterotypes while coining a completely unnecessary term for a straight man who cares about his appearance, riding the fad success of Queer Eye, encouraging an increase in the market for men's cosmetics to help us get rich, and simultaneously make anyone with an iota of intelligence want to vomit? I've got it....!

Believe it or not, I think it's a terrible term fraught with supposition, unclarified linguistic ideas, and just plain misleading all as I pointed out earlier. I guess I'm simply more wont to speak on the level society has dictated than to fight to rise above it. 'My bad.' ;)

~Chad

But they don't see themselves as sleazeballs, desire is often overwhelming

So is your imagination :D

while chugging suds... :eek: :D
Would that be soap suds? :confused:

ah hahhahahahahaha



http://www.nchomebirth.com/Images/alr-suds-250-tint.jpg

you're so funny...............

But they don't see themselves as sleazeballs, desire is often overwhelming
Again, this has nothing whatsoever to do with one's sexuality.

Believe it or not, I think it's a terrible term fraught with supposition, unclarified linguistic ideas, and just plain misleading all as I pointed out earlier. I guess I'm simply more wont to speak on the level society has dictated than to fight to rise above it. 'My bad.'
Sorry, I wasn't trying to make a dig against you. I was just venting my irritation at the term.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make a dig against you. I was just venting my irritation at the term.

No problems. I didn't see it as a dig. If anything I guess I deserve my own slap on the hand for using it. To an extent one could pose that those who are, use the term to rebuff the still psychologically supressed masses -- a sort of turned up nose, childish "we're better than you are" as a way to create separation.

Or, alternately, one could argue that our less-gender-confined heterosexual males (there, how's that for a term?) have, themselves, their own insecurity in how to be seen or accepted. Certainly it's a believable argument. It's the same motivation that (forgive if this offends) many 'Flamers' subconciously possess--in that they seek separation because they seek community so they set up a stereotype and a term to define it, then fulfill the stereotype. This is, essentially, the basis for all 'gender polarization' issues which attempt to assign genders to any action or personality, etc etc. Bem's book on the distorting lenses of culture as it related to the polarization of genders works well within this argument.

In a perfect world there would be no gender at all -- only sex. Male and Female and those who sit inbetween, but no where would there be 'masculine' or 'feminine.' Just people.

~Chad

Again, this has nothing whatsoever to do with one's sexuality.


I never said it was, however one might feel less comfortable having to say it to male member of society, or a masculine member, or even more so to one of those who sit somewhere in between.

An anectode that somewhat relates to the topic, but that I think you'll find interesting:

Recently I was at an event where I overheard a conversation between two men. One began telling the other how "flaming" and feminine gays were an embarassment and weren't even real men. He went on in greater detail but I don't remember every comment. I was instantly put off by such a rude, close-minded, and somewhat offensive commentary.

Then I was told who he was: a homosexual, S&M bondage master who takes photos for a bondage magazine semi-professionally. I'm sure he prefers butch men, but you'd think a person with rather unconventional sexual tastes would have learned to be open minded. How's that for a Freudian Rubic's cube, eh?

An anectode that somewhat relates to the topic, but that I think you'll find interesting:

Recently I was at an event where I overheard a conversation between two men. One began telling the other how "flaming" and feminine gays were an embarassment and weren't even real men. He went on in greater detail but I don't remember every comment. I was instantly put off by such a rude, close-minded, and somewhat offensive commentary.

Then I was told who he was: a homosexual, S&M bondage master who takes photos for a bondage magazine semi-professionally. I'm sure he prefers butch men, but you'd think a person with rather unconventional sexual tastes would have learned to be open minded. How's that for a Freudian Rubic's cube, eh?

Oi. There are so many things wrong with just that situation I could write a couple pages on that. Of course, some REAL therapists could rip that to shreds.

Truly blind but so transparent I would feign to call him a Rubic's cube--that would indicate being 'puzzling' to figure out. ;)

~Chad

I never said it was, however one might feel less comfortable having to say it to male member of society, or a masculine member, or even more so to one of those who sit somewhere in between.
*Ahem*

Too true, I don't care what anybodys sexuality is, as long as their not male and have me in their sights :D
How about this?: "I don't care what anybodys sexuality is." <-Period.

There is no need for any kind of behavior qualifier.

Truly blind but so transparent I would feign to call him a Rubic's cube.
Fair enough.

*Ahem*


How about this?: "I don't care what anybodys sexuality is." <-Period.



Taken out of context and therefore not valid

You completely missed the point. My point is why does your original statement have to have the qualifier, "as long they don't hit on me"?

My point is why does your original statement have to have the qualifier, "as long they don't hit on me"?

Because I'm straight, that doesn't make me homophobic by the way ;)

So, because you're straight a gay man is not allowed to hit on you? It's beyond you're ability to deal with? You can't simply say, "No thank you, I'm not interested"?

Nah, you're just becoming Metrosexual :eek:

For some reason I thought the term "Metrosexual" referred to people that like to have sex in underground Tube Stations.... :o

Seems it's just bad juju to do grouping and labels at all. Don't we have enough division...
So why do you label me and Rich as "anti American" despite me keep telling you I'm anti the American warmongering don't-care-about-anybody-else government, and not the American populace? :confused:
By your reckoning that makes an American who is unhappy with the US government "anti American" :confused: - and I thought patriotism was very strong in the US, you know, like people have the US flag on a pole in their garden etc etc.

Col

For some reason I thought the term "Metrosexual" referred to people that like to have sex in underground Tube Stations.... :o
Silly question :rolleyes: but has anyone in the UK ever heard of the word "metrosexual" before reading it in this thread? I've never heard it before.

Col

Silly question :rolleyes: but has anyone in the UK ever heard of the word "metrosexual" before reading it in this thread? I've never heard it before.

Col


:confused: .......I thought questions usually have question marks at the end

anyway just googled "Metrosexual" and look what I found.

metrosexual (met.roh.SEK.shoo.ul) n. An urban male with a strong aesthetic sense who spends a great deal of time and money on his appearance and lifestyle.
—metrosexuality n.


Example Citations:


At dinner the other night, my date listed the calorie count of the main entrees, raising an eyebrow at my chicken Alfredo selection after he had ordered a salad. I saw him check his reflection in the silver water pitcher three times. During dessert, he looked deeply into my eyes and told me he thought what we have together is very special. It was our third date.

It was then that I realized why my dating life has been as mysterious as the Bermuda Triangle since I arrived in Washington. This city, unlike any other place I've lived, is a haven for the metrosexual. A metrosexual, in case you didn't catch any of several newspaper articles about this developing phenomenon (or the recent "South Park" episode on Comedy Central), is a straight man who styles his hair using three different products (and actually calls them "products"), loves clothes and the very act of shopping for them, and describes himself as sensitive and romantic. In other words, he is a man who seems stereotypically gay except when it comes to sexual orientation.
—Alexa Hackbarth, "Vanity, Thy Name Is Metrosexual," The Washington Post, November 17, 2003



The typical metrosexual is a young man with money to spend, living in or within easy reach of a metropolis — because that's where all the best shops, clubs, gyms and hairdressers are. He might be officially gay, straight or bisexual, but this is utterly immaterial because he has clearly taken himself as his own love object and pleasure as his sexual preference. Particular professions, such as modeling, waiting tables, media, pop music and, nowadays, sport, seem to attract them but, truth be told, like male vanity products and herpes, they're pretty much everywhere.
—Mark Simpson, "Meet the metrosexual," Salon.com, July 22, 2002


Notes:
A metrosexual is a clotheshorse wrapped around a dandy fused with a narcissist. Like soccer star David Beckham, who has been known to paint his fingernails, the metrosexual is not afraid to embrace his feminine side. Why "metrosexual"? The metro- (city) prefix indicates this man's purely urban lifestyle, while the -sexual suffix comes from "homosexual," meaning that this man, although he is usually straight, embodies the heightened aesthetic sense often associated with certain types of gay men.

Mark Simpson invented this term in 1994 (see the earliest citation, below), and it drifted slowly from one media source to another throughout the rest of 1990s and early 2000s. Then Simpson wrote another article about metrosexuals in the online magazine Salon.com on July 22, 2002, and the term took off. Since then it has been picked up by thousands of media outlets, has made numerous TV appearances, has spawned at least a couple of books, and has been dropped in untold numbers of cocktail party conversations. There is no escaping the metrosexual.

The second example citation gives Simpson's succinct description of the metrosexual type from his Salon.com article.


Earliest Citation:


The promotion of metrosexuality was left to the men's style press, magazines such as The Face, GQ, Esquire, Arena and FHM, the new media which took off in the Eighties and is still growing (GQ gains 10,000 new readers every month). They filled their magazines with images of narcissistic young men sporting fashionable clothes and accessories. And they persuaded other young men to study them with a mixture of envy and desire.

Some people said unkind things. American GQ, for example, was popularly dubbed ''Gay Quarterly''. Little wonder that all these magazines — with the possible exception of The Face — address their metrosexual readership as if none of them were homosexual or even bisexual.
—Mark Simpson, "Here come the mirror men," The Independent, November 15, 1994


Subject Categories:
Culture - Appearance and Grooming
Sociology - Gay and Lesbian
Sociology - Men and Women
Sociology - People


Posted on September 4, 2002
Last updated on December 12, 2003

So, because you're straight a gay man is not allowed to hit on you? It's beyond you're ability to deal with? You can't simply say, "No thank you, I'm not interested"?

I've never said it was beyond my ability to deal with it, I said it would be uncomfortable for me to have to do so

:confused: .......I thought questions usually have question marks at the end

Meeeeoooow :rolleyes: I thought quotes from elsewhere had to have quote marks round them ;)

Col

anyway just googled "Metrosexual" and look what I found.

metrosexual (met.roh.SEK.shoo.ul) n. An urban male with a strong aesthetic sense who spends a great deal of time and money on his appearance and lifestyle.
—metrosexuality n.




Ah, you mean kids with too much money in their pockets ;)

So why do you label me and Rich as "anti American" despite me keep telling you I'm anti the American warmongering don't-care-about-anybody-else government, and not the American populace? :confused:
By your reckoning that makes an American who is unhappy with the US government "anti American" :confused: - and I thought patriotism was very strong in the US, you know, like people have the US flag on a pole in their garden etc etc.

Col

Once again, Col ole buddy o mine, I will try to put this as plainly as I can; Most of your posts concerning US government have an antogonistic even belligerent tone. Whether this is aimed at my government or me, in the end, I have to take the hit because it is my government. If you are unable to read back through your posts and see this, and maybe consider posing your concerns about our government in a little more considerate manner, then I'll continue to assume that you just like to jerk people around and wind them up. :D

Once again, Col ole buddy o mine, I will try to put this as plainly as I can; Most of your posts concerning US government have an antogonistic even belligerent tone. Whether this is aimed at my government or me, in the end, I have to take the hit because it is my government. If you are unable to read back through your posts and see this, and maybe consider posing your concerns about our government in a little more considerate manner, then I'll continue to assume that you just like to jerk people around and wind them up. :D

He does exactly the same to our government too :p
I've also noticed a sneering attitude towards our dear Queen from you too.
That's disgusting and has to stop :mad: :p

"Meeeeoooow :rolleyes: I thought quotes from elsewhere had to have quote marks round them ;)

Col"

.... ;)

Ah, you mean kids with too much money in their pockets ;)

yes and mobile phones... :eek:

Ok so Iv'e actually mentioned "mobile Phone" in the Mobile phone section.

Go ahead........shoot me... :D

Whether this is aimed at my government or me, in the end, I have to take the hit because it is my government.
Blimey! what a strange attitude :rolleyes: you must be well battered Ken given the amount of people worldwide that hate and knock the US government. Its up to you if you take these things personally as the fall guy for your warmongering dictator - they're not aimed at you. I think when the film Fahrenheit 9/11 was shown on national TV here, it just confirmed what we thought about the US government and the Bush administration.

If people knock and slag off the UK government, we join right in - our government are a bunch of tossers too. (albeit the best of a bad bunch of tossers) If we can slag our lot off anytime then we do it.

May I ask if you have a union flag or a confederate flag in your garden? Personally I prefer the confederate one, its got better colours and a better design.

Col

Okie dokie - The circus continues then...

I feel I've done all I can :)
.
.
.

May I ask if you have a union flag or a confederate flag in your garden? Personally I prefer the confederate one, its got better colours and a better design.

Col

Neither - If I had to choose, I'd probably have an American flag. Why do you want to know (you trouble maker :p )?

Okie dokie - The circus continues then...

I feel I've done all I can :)
.
.
.
. . . . . . . and a fine job you're doing taking all the hits about your government personally Ken, keep up the good work, there may be a medal in it for you. :rolleyes: Is it the purple heart they give out like smarties if someone gets hit?

Col

. . . . . . . and a fine job you're doing taking all the hits about your government personally Ken, keep up the good work, there may be a medal in it for you. :rolleyes: Is it the purple heart they give out like smarties if someone gets hit?

Col

Nah, just a little peace of mind knowing I didn't let some wise crack about America slip by unabated ;)

.
.
.

Go ahead........shoot me... :D

Oddly enough there are one or two here who'd like to shoot one or two of us :eek:

Neither - If I had to choose, I'd probably have an American flag. Why do you want to know (you trouble maker :p )?

Ok now don't take this personally and get all upset and pissy about it ;) - I read in a magazine that alot of people in the Southern states still feel a strong affinity with the Confederates and continue to fly the flag. (Like the Dukes of Hazzard for example) They can't accept that the Unionists won the civil war and continue to uphold the Confederate ideal.

I merely wondered if you were in that particular camp. Fair enough if you don't, it was just a question thats all. :rolleyes:

Me? a trouble maker?? :confused: I hardly think so - anyway Tess loves me ;) :D

Col

Now you did really good on that one. Thank you. :)

There are a some people around here that display the Confederate flag. And you may be close on the reason why for a few of them, although I suspect most just like to be trendy, etc.

Although, some display it as a means to reject the likes of Jessie Jackson and things like Ms. Black America, racial quotas, etc...

I think the 'Stars & Bars' looks cool as well, and indeed I did have an older State of Georgia flag front tag on my truck (which has the conf flag on it), until a good friend that happened to be black raised an eyebrow when he saw it, so I removed it. I have enough to worry about without needing worry about if I may be un-necessarily offensive :D

and indeed I did have an older State of Georgia flag front tag on my truck (which has the conf flag on it), . . . . . .
I just knew you'd have a Confederate flag flying somewhere :D ;)

I read a book about the American civil war a couple of years ago. I found it very interesting. I have to say I did find some alliance with the Southerners. They did appear to be the underdogs and not quite so well organised. Nevertheless, it was interesting to learn a little about it.

Col

Do you have a British flag anywhere? (Or any other flag fo that matter?)
.
.
.

I just knew you'd have a Confederate flag flying somewhere :D ;)

In your opinion, would that imply anything in particular about me? Edit: (I mean, around here at least, it wouldn't be rocket science to figure a Georgia boy would have a State of Georgia flag somewhere :D ...)

Do you have a British flag anywhere? (Or any other flag fo that matter?)
.
.
.
My avatar used to be a flying Union Jack flag. In fact I may reinstate it again.

On top of my PC here, I have the English St George flag, white with a red cross on it (left over from the last world cup football competition)

Thats it I think, we don't have any flags at home. Oh. . . I have a Zippo lighter somewhere with the Confederate flag on it (as I said, I think its a good flag)

Col

ps - thats about 8 sensible posts between us now :eek: . . . . .this'll have to stop :D

Oh, I forgot... I also have an old Ga. flag on the basement wall. It's huge - 6ft by 8ft. I think my Dad got it from where he used to work when they bought a new one. It's strategically placed so that you can see it from the road when the garage door is open... :D

I'm not trying to make a statement, I just think it looks cool...

Here's what it looks like:

http://www.camdencounty.org/history/ga-flag-1956-2001.jpg

Yes thats nice, I'd like one of those. :D Amazing how one can forget a flag thats 8ft x 6ft and smacks you in the eye every day;)

Col

10 friendly posts???

10 friendly posts???

(Little do they know that we're actually bickering :D )

(Little do they know that we're actually bickering :D )
oh right. . . . .yes. . . . . . .stand by for a string of offensive PM's :D ;)

Col

I've never said it was beyond my ability to deal with it, I said it would be uncomfortable for me to have to do so
That's just fine for you, then. But your original statement is one I've heard many times before and basically says, "It's ok to be gay as long as you don't hit on me." You're more than welcome to be uncomfortable being hit on by a gay man, but that has nothing to do with whether gay people are ok. So putting the two thoughts together like that is very misleading.

There was a very similar additude in this country about 40 through 115 years ago. It went something like, "Black people are OK as long as they're taught in different schools, and use different bathrooms, and sit at the back of the bus."

Blimey! what a strange attitude you must be well battered Ken given the amount of people worldwide that hate and knock the US government. Its up to you if you take these things personally as the fall guy for your warmongering dictator - they're not aimed at you.
Colin, perhaps you might have heard of a particular group who has a pretty big grudge against our government. Maybe we were out of line, but the average citizen took it rather personally when airplanes were flown into some of our buildings.

There was a very similar additude in this country about 40 through 115 years ago. It went something like, "Black people are OK as long as they're taught in different schools, and use different bathrooms, and sit at the back of the bus."



No that's nothing like a fair comparison, the example you've given is racial prejudice and hatred, I don't object to being in the same company as gays, in fact a great many of my customers are gay.
I've no objection as long as I get paid and they don't want to flirt with me ;)

I don't object to being in the same company as gays, ... as long as ... they don't want to flirt with me ;)
If I remember correctly, you're a married man. According to societal standards it would be objectional and immoral for a woman to flirt with you. It might even make you personally uncomfortable to be hit on by another woman. But do you say, "It's ok to be straight as long as you don't flirt with me?"

If I were to make that same statement, there's nothing that wouldn't sit right with you about that?

If I remember correctly, you're a married man. According to societal standards it would be objectional and immoral for a woman to flirt with you. It might even make you personally uncomfortable to be hit on by another woman. But do you say, "It's ok to be straight as long as you don't flirt with me?"

If I were to make that same statement, there's nothing that wouldn't sit right with you about that?

I'm not married so it would be ok for a woman to flirt with me, that's provided I fancied her and she wasn't gay. ;)

Wow. The last time I visited this thread we were actually talking about wax in the cell phone somewhere around post 10 or 12. It's really mutated into a whole different beast now. :eek:

Wow. The last time I visited this thread we were actually talking about wax in the cell phone somewhere around post 10 or 12. It's really mutated into a whole different beast now. :eek:

Well we could start talking about candles again :D

Speaking of mobile phones, here's a little pun I've dreamt up and plan on doing; We have several out of date older cell phones laying around the house. Next time I go fishing with my church buddies, I'm going to take one and pretend someone calls me on it. Then I'll pretend to get really mad at the caller and throw the phone in the water while I mumble and grumble to myself and slowly pretend to be embarrassed :eek: :eek: ...Then not tell anyone any different for a week or two and see what stories get back around to me through the grapevine
:p ... :D

Make sure you, at the least, remove the battery and the antennae or there might not be many fish living there when you return for you next trip! :eek:

Of course, most cellphone makers these days will buy back your old phone from you since they get gov't tax benefits from being environmentally friendly so you could theoretically earn some cash.

You could, of course, use the cash to buy one of those little candy cellphones the kids love and try it with that. ;)

~Chad

Edit: Depending on how much beer you and your buddies may have had by that point, who'd be the wiser? :p

I'm not married so it would be ok for a woman to flirt with me, that's provided I fancied her and she wasn't gay. ;)
Woah. It's a good thing I got that detail wrong otherwise you might have gotten my point. *Whew* We sure dodged a bullet there...

Speaking of mobile phones, here's a little pun I've dreamt up and plan on doing;
Bonus points if you kill a fish with it when you throw it in.

Edit: Depending on how much beer you and your buddies may have had by that point, who'd be the wiser? :p

http://www.fiery-foods.com/images/ed/beerdiet/no_beer_sign200.jpg

I'm not married so it would be ok for a woman to flirt with me, that's provided I fancied her and she wasn't gay. ;)

This: 'she wasn't gay' kinda don't make sense (to me). This isn't another one of those metro deals is it...(I'm getting a headache :o )

Speaking of mobile phones, here's a little pun I've dreamt up and plan on doing; We have several out of date older cell phones laying around the house. Next time I go fishing with my church buddies, I'm going to take one and pretend someone calls me on it. Then I'll pretend to get really mad at the caller and throw the phone in the water while I mumble and grumble to myself and slowly pretend to be embarrassed :eek: :eek: ...Then not tell anyone any different for a week or two and see what stories get back around to me through the grapevine
:p ... :D


A co-worker of mine has one of those huge "foot long" analog brick phones. The blasted thing works great too. They heat up so much you could probably cook an egg on it after using for a while! :D

This: 'she wasn't gay' kinda don't make sense (to me).

Why not? It's quite straight foward :confused:

If she were gay, why would she hit on you to begin with? :confused: (Wait, this may be a metro deal and I really may not want to know...)

If she were gay, why would she hit on you to begin with? :confused: (Wait, this may be a metro deal and I really may not want to know...)

Many years ago a mate of mine lived in a shared house. There were two lessies living in the top flat, he fell madly in love with one of them, despite all his efforts she wasn't interested, after over a year of trying to win her affection he decided to give up and leave the area.
The night before he left he and she came around to my house and asked if they could borrow the spare room. :eek:
Go figure :confused: :D

The night before he left he and she came around to my house and asked if they could borrow the spare room. :eek:
Go figure :confused: :D

Now that's a big thing to borrow.. :eek:

Did you ever get it back?

It's kinda like borrowing Porn movies, you never see them again... :D

So, as a straight man you would not want to be hit on by/have sex with a gay woman?

So, as a straight man you would not want to be hit on by/have sex with a gay woman?

Probably not :confused:

And why is that? It's heterosexual sex. What's the difference?

It's heterosexual sex.
How do you know that's what it would be? :confused:

Um...there's a possibility that sex between a man and a woman is not heterosexual? That's news to me :confused:

And why is that? It's heterosexual sex. What's the difference?

Depends on who wears the strap on?.....................think about it!... ;)

I'm guessing you're just being glib, but that is certainly still heterosexual sex.

I'm guessing you're just being glib, but that is certainly still heterosexual sex.
not if she's bisexual

I really don't feel like explaining why that's inaccurate because it's completely beside the point. Instead I'll simply rephrase my original question.

In your case, your comfort level in sexual contact is based not only on gender but also on sexual orientation?

In your case, your comfort level in sexual contact is based not only on gender but also on sexual orientation?

Of course it is, the same way I assume yours is

I really don't feel like explaining why that's inaccurate because it's completely beside the point. Instead I'll simply rephrase my original question.

In your case, your comfort level in sexual contact is based not only on gender but also on sexual orientation?

Kraj, I'm going to impose a little semantic clarity on your statement and assume that you mean 'based on SEX' instead of 'gender' as gender is term used to describe psychological identification with any particular sex or any places in the middle, not the possession of said reproductive equipment.

~Chad

Of course it is, the same way I assume yours is
And that, Rich, is why a person might label you as a homophobe.

At this point, I would not call you a homophobe as that is both an extreme label and one that has been so misused that it has practically lost all meaning. However, having a different comfort level with a person based soley on their sexual orientation and not their behavior towards you is a form of homophobia. Just as being uncomfortable around a black person for no other reason even though you don't treat them any different is still a form of racism. But it is still there and is still harmful, even if only slightly. It's up to you whether you're fine with that or whether you think it's something that needs to change.

Kraj, I'm going to impose a little semantic clarity on your statement and assume that you mean 'based on SEX' instead of 'gender' as gender is term used to describe psychological identification with any particular sex or any places in the middle, not the possession of said reproductive equipment.

~Chad
But if you use the word "sex" then the first meaning a person will think of is the verb. So how do you reconcile that? Also, I thought the term for what you are describing is "gender identity", not simply "gender"?

And that, Rich, is why a person might label you as a homophobe.


That person would be making the wrong assumption, I've met and known more gays than you in my lifetime, the fact that I'm heterosexual and do not want gay sex does not make me a homophobe.

That person would be making the wrong assumption, I've met and known more gays than you in my lifetime, the fact that I'm heterosexual and do not want gay sex does not make me a homophobe.
Rich, the only reason I made my last post was because this discussion was almost constructive. Your post is the pinnacle of everything wrong with you, and why I will not post in this thread any more.

First I pointed out why a person might label you as a homophobe and then followed it up with why that would not be accurate, but also explaining the negative aspect of your point of view. The only response you could come up with was to say something I already said. Well done.

Then you make a grand assumption about me and who I know. Excatly who the fuck are you to say anything about who I've met? This just adds fuel to my long-held but never-expressed suspicion that you interpret every single thing I say under the assumption that I'm inexperienced, naive, and just haven't lived long enough to see things your way.

Finally, your last "point" is something you've said before and that I've agreed with and has nothing to do whatsoever with what I've been saying. But apparently you think this is something new. A professor of logic would have a stroke just from reading your posts. Goodbye. Have fun living out the rest of your days in your little fantasy world.

At this point, I would not call you a homophobe as that is both an extreme label and one that has been so misused that it has practically lost all meaning. However, having a different comfort level with a person based soley on their sexual orientation and not their behavior towards you is a form of homophobia. Just as being uncomfortable around a black person for no other reason even though you don't treat them any different is still a form of racism. But it is still there and is still harmful, even if only slightly. It's up to you whether you're fine with that or whether you think it's something that needs to change.

I thought the comfort level at issue here was with sexual contact, not just being around someone, so to me it is a different issue. Just because someone doesn't want to have sexual contact with someone who is gay or bisexual doesn't mean they have a problem being around those people in general, and it doesn't make them a homophobe, in my opinion.

As an aside, isn't it interesting how a discussion about how to get wax off of a mobile phone turns into a discussion about gay/straight sex? :confused:

But if you use the word "sex" then the first meaning a person will think of is the verb. So how do you reconcile that? Also, I thought the term for what you are describing is "gender identity", not simply "gender"?

Ehh... it's a gray line. By the numbers gender is psychological, sex is physical.

That's why ISO5218 (gender) has proposed extensions to cover pre-op and post-op sex-changes as well as 2 hermaphritic types (naturally occurring and imposed).

If it was as simple as sex, there could only be the existing ISO5218 standard of Male,Female,Unknown,Unspecified as a pre-op would still have their original equipment.

~Chad

First I pointed out why a person might label you as a homophobe and then followed it up with why that would not be accurate,QUOTE]


Wrong Kraj,

[QUOTE=Kraj]However, having a different comfort level with a person based soley on their sexual orientation and not their behavior towards you is a form of homophobia.
I've never said I was uncomfortable in the company of gays, other than if they had eyes for me.

Excatly who the fuck are you to say anything about who I've met?

I took a leaf out of your book, who the f... are you to tell me how I feel

Just as being uncomfortable around a black person

I don't feel uncomfortable around coloured people and I've never said that I did

Er.....ahem...Do you think that if I leave my phone on charge or something that it may get hot and slowly melt the wax from the inside?

I think a few drops may have got inside the keypad area.


Just a thought!

I gonna keep quiet about treacle in the DVD if this is what happens when you get wax in the phone

L

Er.....ahem...Do you think that if I leave my phone on charge or something that it may get hot and slowly melt the wax from the inside?

I think a few drops may have got inside the keypad area.


Just a thought!


I dare not read this entire thread so I don't know if anyone suggested this yet, but have you tried taking it into your local carrier to see if they can do something with it? Unfortunately, though they may charge you, but maybe not.

Thanks...

All is well, candles in the house are now banned.... ;)

But that was already the case in Australia since 2003 :

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/360423

Oh eh sorry Ground, you're in the UK, how where you supposed to know.

Guy's who wear salmon pink shirts or ties to work in the UK tend to be middle management and make a point of mentioning they have on a pink shirt, and hang out with other middle management who also wear pink shirts. So it is a bit cliché. When I was school there was a joke about wearing vivid lime green shirts to a party, and I had the brightest. The whole idea was to clash the most. It was a quirky trend. But I like to think I grown up. ;)

There are many more hermaphroditic types. you can have a womb and testis in place of ovaries, you can penis like clitoris, both penis and vagina.... the list goes on.

Guy's who wear salmon pink shirts or ties to work in the UK tend to be middle management and make a point of mentioning they have on a pink shirt, and hang out with other middle management who also wear pink shirts.

You mean posers? :D

You mean posers? :D
Wouldn't you say there is at least one of these in every large office. :eek:

LMAO

I was directed to this thread by a link from another.... and was so sorry I missed it originally.
Groundrush, I wonder if you ever figured out the events of that particular evening. But I am supremely edified that you had such an amazing time with your wife on your anniversary. What a wonderful story for the grandkids someday.... lol.

It's also interesting to see where the conversation ended, don't you think? ;) :D

LMAO

I was directed to this thread by a link from another.... and was so sorry I missed it originally.
Groundrush, I wonder if you ever figured out the events of that particular evening. But I am supremely edified that you had such an amazing time with your wife on your anniversary. What a wonderful story for the grandkids someday.... lol.

:D

In just under 2 months it will be our second year anniversary :eek:

I think we'll go away for a couple of days this time to celebrate :o

:D

In just under 2 months it will be our second year anniversary :eek:

I think we'll go away for a couple of days this time to celebrate :o

Congratulations on nearing such an incredible milestone, it's all downhill from now on, just curious will you be packing any candles in the suitcases ?