This reminds me of the LA riots...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/03/france.riots/index.html

But the original cause has been all but forgotten as residents of other communities -- weary of poverty, unemployment and discrimination against the large immigrant and Muslim populations -- have vented their frustration.

Why don't they move back to where they came from?

???

Reminds me of "La Haine"...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113247/

Excellent film for anyone that hasn't seen it.

Why don't they move back to where they came from?



I may be mistaken, but I think the question should be :
what can we do to ensure full integration of these 2nd or even 3rd generations of Algerians, libyian and other nations that have come in to France.
The same thing is ongoing in the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe and does have parallelities with USA/Mexican conflict.

I feel the primary burden to adopt/change/intergrate, should be on the people moving in, not the people already there...

Agree, but think that we should also facilitate the incoming to integrate. This is not really the case in Paris and other large french cities.
On the other hand, the french do better than us because the majority of their immigrants do speak french. ( The french imposed the french language onto their former colony population).

This reminds me of the LA riots...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/03/france.riots/index.html



Why don't they move back to where they came from?

???
Haven't you heard the phrase when in Rome do as the Romans do?

I feel the primary burden to adopt/change/intergrate, should be on the people moving in, not the people already there...

Like all those European immigrants did with the native population of North America? Oh, no, my bad, they decided to kill them all...

Like all those European immigrants did with the native population of North America? Oh, no, my bad, they decided to kill them all...
Ah yes but then to be fair they started killing each other shortly afterwards :D
Nowadays of course they prefer to go elswhere for their sport :rolleyes:

Erroneous:

Like all those European immigrants did with the native population of North America? Oh, no, my bad, they decided to kill them all...

Correct:

Like all us European immigrants did with the native population of North America? Oh, no, my bad, we decided to kill them all...

:) :)

Erroneous:

Ah yes but then to be fair they started killing each other shortly afterwards :D
Nowadays of course they prefer to go elswhere for their sport :rolleyes:

Ah yes but then to be fair we started killing each other shortly afterwards :D
Nowadays of course we prefer to go elswhere for their sport :rolleyes:

:) :)

Erroneous:





:) :)
I see you've signed up for the American secret services :eek:

Ah yes but then to be fair they started killing each other shortly afterwards :D
Nowadays of course they prefer to go elswhere for their sport :rolleyes:

Well, you know

We have gotten smarter over the years.

Well, you know

We have gotten smarter over the years.
When are we going to see the evidence? :confused:

When are we going to see the evidence? :confused:
When you guys figure out how to put a man on the moon, let me know.

When you guys figure out how to put a man on the moon, let me know.
There's no point, a German terrorist's already done it :rolleyes:

There's no point, a German terrorist's already done it :rolleyes:


Yeah, we did get the best ones didn’t we?

But there was way more to it then just a few X Nazi’s

I grew up in Clear Lake City Texas in the heyday of the Apollo era. By the way whenever you hear the phrase “ “Houston, we are ready for reentry or something like that, it’s really CLC.

Over 100,000 thousand of some of the smartest people from all over the globe worked on that project. One of my Judo Sensei was a nuclear physicist on loan from Japan.

Haven't you heard the phrase when in Rome do as the Romans do?
I hear yah!

Erroneous:



Correct:



:) :)

<Sigh>Ken, you really need to work on your Trolling. Your logic is as flawed as your English.

WE Europeans who live in Europe have not immigrated from Europe.

THOSE Europeans who emigrated to America lost THEIR command of the English language...

Yeah, we did get the best ones didn’t we?

But there was way more to it then just a few X Nazi’s

I grew up in Clear Lake City Texas in the heyday of the Apollo era. By the way whenever you hear the phrase “ “Houston, we are ready for reentry or something like that, it’s really CLC.

Over 100,000 thousand of some of the smartest people from all over the globe worked on that project. One of my Judo Sensei was a nuclear physicist on loan from Japan.
But was it worth the enormous cost, what benefit did mankind actually get from the exercise?

<Sigh>Ken, you really need to work on your Trolling. Your logic is as flawed as your English.

WE Europeans who live in Europe have not immigrated from Europe.

THOSE Europeans who emigrated to America lost THEIR command of the English language...

1. Monkey, Why do you consider my response a troll?

2. And I didn't immigrate from anywhere. So what's your point?

3. What part of this wonderful language did I screw up this time? :eek: :p

>sigh<

3. What part of this wonderful language did I screw up this time? :eek: :p

>sigh<
Firstly you didn't address us as Sir
secondly Like all us European immigrants isn't very good grammar, is it?
thirdly, no that's enough for you to be getting on with at the minute :p

Firstly you didn't address us as Sir
secondly Like all us European immigrants isn't very good grammar, is it?
thirdly, no that's enough for you to be getting on with at the minute :p

1. Hold your breath till I do. :D
2. Like all of us European immigrants (?)
3. Whew... :eek: :p

1. Hold your breath till I do. :D

I would also suggest that you tug your forelock when addressing us but then you'd end up pulling your wig off, so we'll let you off for now :p

2. Like all of us European immigrants (?)

I would have thought "like we Europeans", but I can't be more specific because for all I know your ancestors might have arrived from mumbo jumbo land :D

I'm guessing the wigs, the sir's and the tugging is all part of the titular culture stuff you're also required to 'master' :p

...mumbo jumbo land :D

Or maybe Germany? :eek: :p

Or maybe Germany? :eek: :p
Well that would explain a lot

I'm guessing the wigs, the sir's and the tugging is all part of the titular culture stuff you're also required to 'master' :p
No it's only a requirement for the peasants these days :cool:

Back to the topic...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/08/france.riots/index.html

This is just a thought, has anyone else felt that some of this is an in-direct result of their complacent attitude...

Just a thought :o

Back to the topic...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/08/france.riots/index.html

This is just a thought, has anyone else felt that some of this is an in-direct result of their complacent attitude...

Just a thought :o

The French, or the immigrants complacent attitude....
The native French always have a very strong national identity, and fight to stay "French", that may have something todo with it. i.e it has alienated those non-native French...
Whilst in Britain if you have any national pride the PC brigade will have you. Hence one London borough has "Winter Lights" not Christmas lights. That will stop any riots...

Whilst in Britain if you have any national pride the PC brigade will have you. Hence one London borough has "Winter Lights" not Christmas lights. That will stop any riots...
And of course thanks to our glorious membership of the European Human Rights kids can now wear whatever uniform they like to school on religious
grounds, I wonder what the Jedi knights will wear to school? :rolleyes:

Interesting...I would have thought our European counterparts would have some kind of insight into the social roots of this event. Instead the discussion seems to be rather superficial.

Interesting...I would have thought our European counterparts would have some kind of insight into the social roots of this event. Instead the discussion seems to be rather superficial.

We may be in Europe and adjacent but the British and the French have never been known for our understanding of each other. So our views will always be superficial. ;)

In all honesty I believe the roots of this problem are many. I do have French friends, but I have not spoken to them since the riots started to get their thoughts.

However I am aware that The north African and Muslim minorities are slightly separate from mainstream French society and the poorer sections have not really integrated at all are feel victimised by French society. For example over the summer there were several fires in the poorer parts of Paris killing a number of immigrants. This was apparently due to the poor conditions they where living in. Perhaps more importantly the opportunities open to them may not be as great as native French even those with collage degrees finding it hard to get a job due to perceived racial reasons. (I am not sure how true this is but if a section of society perceives that it is being discriminated against sections of them will get angry). .

France had a large social budget and this has been heavily reduced over the last few years. On top of that the French economy has suffered for the past five years. The the poor (mainly ethnic groups) who have taken the brunt of both these changes. There is also the perceived problem of Islam in France which is a secular state. For example within the school system Muslim girls are not allowed to ware headscarf, as this is perceived a overtly religious symbol (a crucifix is ok as long as it can be worn inside the uniform. This has created small amount of tension on both sides.

However it also seems to be large amount of French culture to protest and strike when things are not going well – take French farmers for example.

For example within the school system Muslim girls are not allowed to ware headscarf, as this is perceived a overtly religious symbol (a crucifix is ok as long as it can be worn inside the uniform. This has created small amount of tension on both sides.

.
They actually have the right idea here, their argument is that those who want to wear religious uniform should attend religious schools and not state ones.

They actually have the right idea here, their argument is that those who want to wear religious uniform should attend religious schools and not state ones.

Agreed, just dont try to use vouchers. A very far right idea.

They actually have the right idea here, their argument is that those who want to wear religious uniform should attend religious schools and not state ones.

Then who decides what constitutes a religious allusion?

“We’ll Always have Paris” woops wrong thread.

Then who decides what constitutes a religious allusion?
Do you think Christians could go to Muslim countries and tell them how to run the place?

They actually have the right idea here, their argument is that those who want to wear religious uniform should attend religious schools and not state ones.

Separate schools increase the divide, people should mix from a young age, ALL children should attend state schools and learn to live with each other, learning about each others life styles etc. They might come to realise that their religious leaders are only in it for power.

Brian

Do you think Christians could go to Muslim countries and tell them how to run the place?

You didn't answer Ken's question.

Brian

Separate schools increase the divide, people should mix from a young age, ALL children should attend state schools and learn to live with each other, learning about each others life styles etc. They might come to realise that their religious leaders are only in it for power.

Brian
That's true but then the only way to bring about that change would be to ban religious schools and religious teaching in schools, full stop

Then who decides what constitutes a religious allusion?
societ y

That's true but then the only way to bring about that change would be to ban religious schools and religious teaching in schools, full stop

I would ban religious brain washing but would be happy to have religious teachers explaining the basis of their religion to all pupils, but it would have to be an open minded discussion.

Brian

I would ban religious brain washing but would be happy to have religious teachers explaining the basis of their religion to all pupils, but it would have to be an open minded discussion.

Brian
and of course whether there's any basis for religion at all

Geat minds think alike :)

society

So we either vote on every single instance or delegate to the elected officials?

So we either vote on every single instance or delegate to the elected officials?
we hope that elected officials carry out the wishes of the populace, of course they never do, well except :rolleyes:

Except Blair?

Except Blair?
of course not, most of the UK was against the invasion of Iraq, unlike......... :p

Switzerland?

Switzerland?
.
.
.
:p :p :p

Switzerland?
Are the Swiss of Germanic stock too? :confused:

They actually have the right idea here, their argument is that those who want to wear religious uniform should attend religious schools and not state ones.
I disagree. I don't think public schools have any business endorsing any religion, but there's no reason to stamp out all forms of individual religious expression. This is what I believe in general.

In this specific case, however, because of the nature of the clothing in question I could see it causing a disruption with the normal school environment at times and a teacher should have the right to ask the item be removed. If the Muslims want special rights so they can refuse to do so, then I agree that they should go to a Muslim school.

OK, I think.... >Drum roll please...<

I think all public schools should allow everyone to wear what they want, until someone makes a stink. Then they go to a uniform. If you need a religous head cover thing, go to a private school...

imho

I think all public schools should allow everyone to wear what they want, until someone makes a stink. Then they go to a uniform. If you need a religous head cover thing, go to a private school...
LOL....well you may as well just say public schools should have a uniform. Why wait for someone to make a stink when you know it'll happen eventually? Making a stink is one of the few things Americans excel at :rolleyes:

...Making a stink is one of the few things Americans excel at :rolleyes:

I think it's our European heritage...

>Did I say that :eek: <

I disagree. I don't think public schools have any business endorsing any religion.
Brian and I have already agreed on this point

I think all public schools should allow everyone to wear what they want, until someone makes a stink.
We have a long tradition of wearing school uniforms, I know this is alien to you because of course you don't have any traditions do you :rolleyes: :p
'cept for electing Republicans

Brian and I have already agreed on this point
Therefore I can't state my own opinion? :confused:

Therefore I can't state my own opinion? :confused:
That's not what I said or intended to imply, just pointing out that in a world of division there's a remarkable consensus on common sense here

We have a long tradition of wearing school uniforms, I know this is alien to you because of course you don't have any traditions do you :rolleyes: :p
'cept for electing Republicans


Thanksgiving, Independence day, Sunday afternoon football, the list goes on.

And oh yeah, a tradition of getting Europe out of its terrible wars.

Independence day
aside from the special effects the film was crap :p

That's not what I said or intended to imply, just pointing out that in a world of division there's a remarkable consensus on common sense here
Ah, my mistake. Sorry 'bout that.

aside from the special effects the film was crap :p
My brother lives in D.C. and went to see it in the theater. He said everyone cheered when the White House blew up :D

And oh yeah, a tradition of getting Europe out of its terrible wars.

Eventually, that's after growing rich on the proceeds of course :rolleyes:
I should also point out that ww11 is short for World War and had we not stood up to Facism you guys would be speaking a mixture of German and Japanese

Eventually, that's after growing rich on the proceeds of course :rolleyes:
I should also point out that ww11 is short for World War and had we not stood up to Facism you guys would be speaking a mixture of German and Japanese


Not likely Rich,

Not to down play the role of any Allied citizens or nations, but as you have pointed out so often we have a lot of guns over here.

If a super power like the former Soviet Union, or the current United States can’t occupy a couple of flee bites in the Middle East. How in the world do you suppose the Nazis could have maintained control over Britain or the US for any length of time?

Wouldn’t have happened.

We would have invented a gorilla warfare and terrorism battlefield to make the current stuff look like playground fun.

We would have invented a gorilla warfare and terrorism battlefield to make the current stuff look like playground fun.
The Beverly Hillbillies vs. the ruthless efficiency of the Germans and Japs, you're having a laugh :p

Not likely Rich,

If a super power like the former Soviet Union, or the current United States can’t occupy a couple of flee bites in the Middle East. How in the world do you suppose the Nazis could have maintained control over Britain or the US for any length of time?



You cannot compare the current situation and that in the '40s.
As Germany and Japan would have been the only powers were would their oppnents have got their supplies from, the world was not awashwith weapons in those days.
Also I have read more than one account stateing that there was a strong lobby for Germany in the US.
Also the Japanese and Nazis would have put down resistance much more ruthlessly than GB or the USA.

Brian

Also I have read more than one account stateing that there was a strong lobby for Germany in the US.
Brian
Kennedy and that all American hero Lindbergh being just two of them and I still think Hauptmann was innocent :mad:

The Beverly Hillbillies vs. the ruthless efficiency of the Germans and Japs, you're having a laugh :p

Even the French had a resistance.

If Britain couldn’t occupy the US 250 years ago I see no evidence to support a successful Nazi occupation theory.

Could we have lost the war? Absolutely, as you both are very aware we came close many times.

But occupy? We would still be fighting. It’s possible they could have occupied GB not because the British are any less the fighters than Americans but simply due to geography.

The long term cost in blood over here would have been too much for them. And let us not forget the Russians. Thank God we had all of the Allied peoples.

Actually there was only one way that war would end, with Axis power defeat. At some time the machine would have collapsed due to internal strife, lack of will, or the power of God, if you like.

Even the French had a resistance.

.
Yes and they were supported and supplied by us in order to maintain that resistance, however due to logistics we couldn't have done the same for you :D

or the power of God, if you like.
since he did nothing to stop the carnage in the first place it's highly unlikely that he'd acted any different just because another country was being invaded :rolleyes:

since he did nothing to stop the carnage in the first place it's highly unlikely that he'd acted any different just because another country was being invaded :rolleyes:

Amen to that... :rolleyes:

Do you think Christians could go to Muslim countries and tell them how to run the place?
I note that this question went unanswered

Col

I note that this question went unanswered

Col
Well the answer's staring us in the face in Iraq, although oddly enough Christians went about their daily life there unmolested under that evil dictator Saddam :rolleyes:

Well the answer's staring us in the face in Iraq, although oddly enough Christians went about their daily life there unmolested under that evil dictator Saddam :rolleyes:

Your tone indicates that you think he didn’t deserve to be disposed.

Well the answer's staring us in the face in Iraq, although oddly enough Christians went about their daily life there unmolested under that evil dictator Saddam :rolleyes:

Your tone indicates that you think he didn’t deserve to be disposed.

Your tone indicates that you think he didn’t deserve to be disposed.
There was a BBC documentary on that, and many Iraqi's interviewed feel they had a better life prior to the US (and UK) illegal interference. Apparently, things are much more dangerous now

Col

Your tone indicates that you think he didn’t deserve to be disposed.
Oddly enough neither did the majority at the UN

Oddly enough neither did the majority at the UN

Don’t misunderstand me. I think the GWB administration was criminal in it’s deception of the people, about the threat from Iraq. However the Security Counsel’s reluctance to engage him was also motivated by national self interest.

If anything the biggest “mistake” was cutting the inspection process. Had that continued we may have avoided all this.

As far as life being better for the Iraqis, It’s too early to tell. I, like you, are dubious of any positive outcome for the short term. But I haven’t heard any ideas from you that would indicated you have inkling of a solution. It’s easy to criticize, and much harder to contribute.

But I haven’t heard any ideas from you that would indicated you have inkling of a solution. It’s easy to criticize, and much harder to contribute.
There are several dictators who have a dubious regime in their country. We all knew he (Saddam) was not a threat to "the west" - he's not stupid, the reason for blundering in with guns blazing was oil oil oil as the main reason, plus GWB wanted to prove to daddy he could do it, thats why Bush went against the UN 2nd resolution.

You can bet that nothing will be done about Mugabe or North Korea (for example) they lack the one incentive - oil - its nothing to do with the "poor opressed people" or so called "human rights"

Col

All true points. However, assuming that middle eastern countries like Iraq are capable of functioning with governments other than dictatorships, insurgencies are quelled, civil wars are avoided, and the region stabilizes to a reasonable degree (that's quite a "To Do" list ain't it, Bushie?), then it will be hard to claim the majority of Iraqis are not far better off with Saddam gone. I'd imagine the vast majority of people who prefered life under Hussein are either a.) caught in the crossfire of the temporary (if drawn out) conflict between U.S. forces and insurgents or b.) people who benefited from Saddam's corruption.

I agree Kraj. ;)

Col

All true points. However, assuming that middle eastern countries like Iraq are capable of functioning with governments other than dictatorships, insurgencies are quelled, civil wars are avoided, and the region stabilizes to a reasonable degree (that's quite a "To Do" list ain't it, Bushie?), then it will be hard to claim the majority of Iraqis are not far better off with Saddam gone. I'd imagine the vast majority of people who prefered life under Hussein are either a.) caught in the crossfire of the temporary (if drawn out) conflict between U.S. forces and insurgents or b.) people who benefited from Saddam's corruption.


You're absolutely correct.

Nothing like a couple of Brits, to get even the hardest anti-Bush Americans, rallied up in his defense.

I agree Kraj. ;)

Col
:eek: :eek: :eek:

...I'll never wash my eyes again! ;) :p :D

Nothing like a couple of Brits, to get even the hardest anti-Bush Americans, rallied up in his defense.
LOL

If I have given anyone the impression I've defended Bush in any way, shape, or form, my deepest apologies. I just think there's a vast wealth of things to criticise Bush about without using rhetoric, speculation, or pessimism, (**comment directed towards Bush critics in general....I'm not referring to anyone specifically**) so why not stick to the juicy stuff? :p

:eek: :eek: :eek:

...I'll never wash my eyes again! ;) :p :D



you seem surprised Kraj :confused:

Col

you seem surprised Kraj :confused:

Col
Just playin'.... it seems like it's been awhile since we agreed about anything, much less something related to Bush/Iraq.

Just playin'.... it seems like it's been awhile since we agreed about anything, much less something related to Bush/Iraq.
I know your feelings towards Bush / Iraq and the fact that the majority of normal US people think the same - all you need to do is get rid of the warmongering prat.

There's a big thing on the ITN news last night about the Vice Prez being accused by some ex CIA chap about the Prez and Vice Prez giving the green light to torture people they capture? then Bush comes on and says its not true and the CIA bloke called Bush a blatant liar in the interview.

The CIA chap also said that the already low and hated image of the USA worldwide will now be rock bottom.

Whats that all about?

Col

I'd imagine the vast majority of people who prefered life under Hussein are either a.) caught in the crossfire of the temporary (if drawn out) conflict between U.S. forces and insurgents or b.) people who benefited from Saddam's corruption.

I'd say therein lies the problem, we're looking at the middle east through western eyes and can't therefore really be subjective.
If one looks back through history of the region it's be in turmoil for centuries, they have customs and ways that we simply don't understand.
However alien Saddam was to us, Iraqis at least knew where they were under his leadership.

I'd say therein lies the problem, we're looking at the middle east through western eyes and can't therefore really be subjective.
If one looks back through history of the region it's be in turmoil for centuries, they have customs and ways that we simply don't understand.
However alien Saddam was to us, Iraqis at least knew where they were under his leadership.
The centuries of turmoil was usually of a religious or occupation of land reasons. These days its just oil - pure and simple - thats why the USA won't bother with any non oil producing dictatorships.

Col

The centuries of turmoil was usually of a religious or occupation of land reasons. These days its just oil - pure and simple - thats why the USA won't bother with any non oil producing dictatorships.

Col
I think there's some oil in Dorset, should we be worried?
I mean the US does seem to have a habit of turning on it's former allies :rolleyes:

I mean the US does seem to have a habit of turning on it's former allies :rolleyes:
They call that "friendly fire" when they kill their allies :rolleyes:

anyway, the USA already runs this country

Col

anyway, the USA already runs this country

Col
Well this we've suspected for a long time but now have the evidence to support this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4441448.stm)
The Yanks don't even have to supply evidence to our country to back up the claim any more :mad:
Do you think the favour would be returned? :rolleyes:

Whats that all about?
I haven't heard the specific story you mention, but it doesn't sound like anyone is saying anything everyone didn't already know anyway :p :rolleyes:

Although I pretty much try to ignore the man's existence whenever possible for the sack of my sanity, I am vaguely curious as to what his strategy will be for regaining his lost support.

This is just a thought, has anyone else felt that some of this is an in-direct result of their complacent attitude...

Hey, I am french,
What do you mean by Complacent attitude, never forget my dear friend that French people are very touchy...
The stuff hapening in France just now are not really a big surprise, the situation has been boiling up for years (cf: La Haine [le movie]) this is just a direct consequence of the after war when France was rebuilt with the help of quite a few Northen african People that the government was quite happy to lodge in futuristic buildings at the time called towers. 40 years after, 1st and 2nd generation want the money back, it' s also hapening in quite a lot of other country in Europe.

Interesting...I would have thought our European counterparts would have some kind of insight into the social roots of this event. Instead the discussion seems to be rather superficial
Superficial is good, sometimes...

Separate schools increase the divide, people should mix from a young age, ALL children should attend state schools and learn to live with each other, learning about each others life styles etc. They might come to realise that their religious leaders are only in it for power.
Yep...It's would be all nice and wonderfull and we could also have nice shooting stars coming out of our hears each time we say I love you....Somehow I don't think it's gonna happen

In this specific case, however, because of the nature of the clothing in question I could see it causing a disruption with the normal school environment at times and a teacher should have the right to ask the item be removed. If the Muslims want special rights so they can refuse to do so, then I agree that they should go to a Muslim school.
Well...That's the problem, there's no muslim school and people wouldn't take there items off.

Thanksgiving, Independence day, Sunday afternoon football, the list goes on.

And oh yeah, a tradition of getting Europe out of its terrible wars.

WWHHHHHHHAAAAATTTTTTTTTT!!
Am I reading the Scottish Sun????

Not to down play the role of any Allied citizens or nations, but as you have pointed out so often we have a lot of guns over here.

If a super power like the former Soviet Union, or the current United States can’t occupy a couple of flee bites in the Middle East. How in the world do you suppose the Nazis could have maintained control over Britain or the US for any length of time?

Wouldn’t have happened.

We would have invented a gorilla warfare and terrorism battlefield to make the current stuff look like playground fun.
Hi...You right...

majority of normal US people think the same
Col

Liberals keep using that word...I do not think it means what they think it means.

Liberals keep using that word...I do not think it means what they think it means.
Normal? what do you think it means? the people who like a good old war killing 20,000+ civilians and a couple of thousand troops? and ruining a country for the sake of it so it'll always have civil war now?

Majority? = people who don't want the above

Col

Quoted from Cav

Liberals keep using that word...I do not think it means what they think it means.



How do you define liberal? I think the word liberal is the most inaccurately used word in modern American society.

It’s used for everything from any disagreement with bush, to anyone questioning how the republicans think we are going to finance this huge Bush deficit.

Cav that label has gotten some of the worst bunch elected to the White House in my lifetime.

And by the way the majority of the people in the country voted for Al Gore. Only he was put in office by an antiquated system designed to be used by farmers in a communicationless country 230 years ago.

The Republicans have duped the country by forming the debate.

Think about it.

How often do you see bumper stickers about “Right to Life” (code for antiabortion to you foreigners)?

Millions of people voted for family values because the churches told them to vote for candidates that support right to life. So the Democrats in their stupidity embraced all of the others (the liberal issues).

Now none of them are looking out for the middle class, because the major corporations and institutional investors are in the background laughing their collective asses off. We’re arguing about whether or not we should be in Iraq; they laugh, we complain about storms knocking our cities down; they get richer hiring illegal immigrants to rebuild, we argue about gay marriage; they make laws so General Motors can get a tax break for moving 38,000 jobs to China.

Wake up, these idiotic diversions are a divide and conquer tactic. You’re a Marine; it should be obvious to you.

By the way, I’m a moderate. But the pendulum has swung too far to the right. It’s time for a little swing back.

By the way, I’m a moderate. But the pendulum has swung too far to the right. It’s time for a little swing back.
At last! you're starting in the right direction, now you also need to introduce an element of social justice into your society and you'll start to become a modern society

I would ban religious brain washing but would be happy to have religious teachers explaining the basis of their religion to all pupils, but it would have to be an open minded discussion.

Brian

I would be interested in learning about ANY religion that could be described as OPEN MINDED.

I would be interested in learning about ANY religion that could be described as OPEN MINDED.
Nice one:D I don't think "religion" and "open minded" can go together.
All religions are basically cults where people follow the teachings of a leader. It doesn't matter if the leader lives in Waco or is a smooth magician (if he existed) who can con people into thinking his tricks are miracles - like christianity - the basics are still the same.

They even hijacked the pagan festival in December and reckon its their leaders birthday:rolleyes:

Col

Statsman spotted the flaw in my wish , I posted it with tongue firmly in cheek knowing that it was impossible.
The young lady in the office attempting to convert me to the paths of righteousness has given me a book titled "Where is God when things go wrong" and i get so angry at the statements and assumptions held. Unfortunately, or otherwise depending on one's point of view , whenever she tries to talk it through with me my thoughts are anything but righteous:D

Brian

Statsman spotted the flaw in my wish , I posted it with tongue firmly in cheek knowing that it was impossible.
The young lady in the office attempting to convert me to the paths of righteousness has given me a book titled "Where is God when things go wrong" and i get so angry at the statements and assumptions held. Unfortunately, or otherwise depending on one's point of view , whenever she tries to talk it through with me my thoughts are anything but righteous:D

Brian
I find it odd and a bloody cheek when people of a religious bent try to "convert" other people. If I smoke ciggies religiously - I don't go round trying to get people to smoke also, so why do people do it with religion?

If people want to worship something then fine, just don't try and drag others into their sordid little cults.

Col

Ah! I forgot to mention what an attractive young lady she is, hence the non righteous thoughts;)

Brian

Now, if we could just find a way to keep them from brainwashing their children.

About religion, not cigaraettes.

Now, if we could just find a way to keep them from brainwashing their children.

About religion, not cigaraettes.
Ban it in schools first, then ban religious schools, let the kids then decide for themselves

How do they decide without knowledge, hence my post
Originally Posted by Brianwarnock
I would ban religious brain washing but would be happy to have religious teachers explaining the basis of their religion to all pupils, but it would have to be an open minded discussion.

Brian

Now, if we could just find a way to keep them from brainwashing their children.

About religion, not cigaraettes.

Is it possible to have/catch/be devoted to any religion without being brainwashed?

I always see the 2 things together.

Plus, why do religious people say "god will decide whats best for me/us" - isn't that a cop-out so that if it doesn't work out someone else (god) gets the blame? I think that shows a severe inability to take any responsibility for anything, and a big ability to want to blame someone else.

Col

Is it possible to have/catch/be devoted to any religion without being brainwashed?

The fact that some people change their religion does suggest that for some it can be a more active decision although one could argue that the seeds of requiring a God have been sown.

As to Col's 2nd point it was interesting to hear our guide in Morrocco this year say that if things go wrong people say that its Allah will, and thus progress can be slow.

Mind you things were not left to the will of God when the Pope got shot.

Brian

The fact that some people change their religion does suggest that for some it can be a more active decision although one could argue that the seeds of requiring a God have been sown.


People do change religions under the same god umbrella, my sisters moved from C of E to Baptist, but I understand the god person is the same for both. It was something to do with C of E being too stuffy and formal whereas Baptist is more relaxed on the dressing up brigade.

Fewer people actually change gods I suspect - like Muslim to Hindu or whatever. That'll be like Hayley changing from Rangers to Man U:eek:

Col

Is it possible to have/catch/be devoted to any religion without being brainwashed?

I always see the 2 things together.

Plus, why do religious people say "god will decide whats best for me/us" - isn't that a cop-out so that if it doesn't work out someone else (god) gets the blame? I think that shows a severe inability to take any responsibility for anything, and a big ability to want to blame someone else.

Col

The reversal of that, is when people of great faith accomplish great works, they often attribute it to the power of God.

Most people cannot understand alcoholism. And most alcoholics never recover (only 3% stay sober)

But almost any recovering alcoholic will tell you it was the power of God. They may not be inclined to use the name, but the concept is the same.

Fewer people actually change gods I suspect - like Muslim to Hindu or whatever. That'll be like Hayley changing from Rangers to Man U:eek:

Col
I have of course suggested this to her and will continue to preach the gospel to her accordingly.
I pray that she comes to her senses and can be saved:cool:

I have of course suggested this to her and will continue to preach the gospel to her accordingly.
I pray that she comes to her senses and can be saved:cool:
One can only try;)

Fortunately she still contacts the outside world - as long as that happens . . . . there's hope:)

Col

Hay will only reach nirvana when she supports the true Reds, the current Champions of Europe, not those imposters down the M62.
:D :D :D

Brian

Thanks all for your concern but blue truly is the colour ;) If there's any red apperaing my other half insists it's Arsenal :cool:

Hay

Thanks all for your concern but blue truly is the colour ;)
Not sure Chelsea was a wise move Hales:rolleyes: still, at least its a step in the right direction - at least they're top of the league:D

Col

Not sure Chelsea was a wise move Hales:rolleyes: still, at least its a step in the right direction - at least they're top of the league:D

Col

Well Rangers and Chelsea go hand in hand. Go to Ibrox on a matchday you'll find loads of Chelsea shirts. I even took stick off my fellow Gers fans for wearing an Arsenal top :( Gers could be at the bottom of the league and I'd still support them.....better not say too much more we're heading that way :( :mad:

See what you've done now Col, making the thread off topic again :rolleyes: :p

Hay

See what you've done now Col, making the thread off topic again :rolleyes: :p

Hay
Only slightly:rolleyes: I suspect there are more people treating football like a religion than actually go to church.

In fact, football can be equated to religion. You have different cults (clubs) with their passionate supporters (followers) every religion has its rival religions (other clubs) and when they meet, they fight alot for their religion (club)

If we didn't have religion, most wars wouldn't happen.

Col

It’s funny how the word Football, is used on both sides to describe an irrational craze.

Different sports, same wacko fans.

It’s funny how the word Football, is used on both sides to describe an irrational craze.

Different sports, same wacko fans.

I take it you don't like sport.

Brian

It saddens me that sports fans all seem to get tarred with the same brush. There are some genuine sports fans out there :(

Round the table at Christmas there will be 4 Reds 5 Blues and 3 neutrals and the conversation will be civil(ish):D

Brian

Thanks all for your concern but blue truly is the colour ;) If there's any red apperaing my other half insists it's Arsenal :cool:

Hay

Whatever were they thinking of changing their strip. All my red trunk and white sleeve shirts have to be replaced.

OH!!! that was the idea.

I take it you don't like sport.

Brian

I like sports just fine.

You have to remember I live near Washington DC, the home of the wacko Redskins fans.

At the cigar club they actually get serious about arguing over football (American)

At the cigar club they actually get serious about arguing over football (American)
And across the pond, they actually get serious about arguing over soccer.:D
Quite similar characters:rolleyes:

There are some genuine sports fans out there :(
Then why do you keep going to Ibrox? :confused:

It saddens me that sports fans all seem to get tarred with the same brush. There are some genuine sports fans out there :(
Yes thats true Hay, sorry if I gave the wrong impression. Not all football fans fight, its only a small minority that give football a bad name - the same occurs in religions too, a small minority have to fight.

Col

the same occurs in religions too, a small minority have to fight.

Col
That's right Col and as always it's the ringleaders who escape justice:mad:

Rich,
Your last post reminded me of Hitler.

You’re a WWII fan (At least the Atlantic Part). I saw a History Channel thing on him a few years ago.

They claimed he was part of a Satanic Cult or something.

Can you elaborate on that?

Well Bush and Bliar belong to a cult called Christianity, personally I'd re-name it insanity :rolleyes:
Hitler was just evil, period.

Then why do you keep going to Ibrox? :confused:

For more punishment :p

But seriously as the song goes:
I am a blue nose, loyal and true. I'm proud to wear the red, white & blue, strong as a rock with standards high. I'm a teddy bear till the day I die ;) :D

It has to be done Rich....simple as!

Hay

Yes thats true Hay, sorry if I gave the wrong impression. Not all football fans fight, its only a small minority that give football a bad name - the same occurs in religions too, a small minority have to fight.

Col

No worries Col I agree with you totally. It's ridiculous that people should be stabbed or smashed over the head with a bottle or something just because of what football team they support or any sport for that matter. It's a game and should be a fun day out not one whether you wonder if you'll return home in one piece. It just spoils it for everyone :mad:

Hay

They claimed he was part of a Satanic Cult or something.

Can you elaborate on that?

Google can;

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hitler%2Boccult

Its no big secret. The allies also "unofficially" contacted people in the occult (as you would if your enemy was).

Hellboy was inspired by these revelations.

It has to be done Rich....simple as!

Hay
one has to wonder why Pompey had McCleish on their shopping list:confused:

A former frenchwoman:
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article330688.ece

one has to wonder why Pompey had McCleish on their shopping list:confused:

True, I'll be honest here! I've backed the guy all along when the majority have been calling for his head but he is on borrowed time. The fans who have backed him are now also looking for change. He's had his chance now but I just don't see how he can turn things around. We can't even get the basics right ...it's embarrasing!

I like the guy and I'm sorry to see it end this way but I think he'll be gone by christmas. He's still been a successful manager. I hope he get s good send off probably v Inter Milan at home providing we don't get gubbed about 6-0 :eek: :o

Hay

Google can;

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hitler%2Boccult

Its no big secret. The allies also "unofficially" contacted people in the occult (as you would if your enemy was).

Hellboy was inspired by these revelations.


The occult members they consulted were physicists. The result of their prayers to the dark master was the A Bomb.

one has to wonder why Pompey had McCleish on their shopping list:confused:


Isn’t that Cnaeus Pompeius Strabo’s kid?