Gun laws do they work (1 Viewer)

ConnorGiles

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I am puzzled by your posts, you definitely seem upset by my post despite the icons which were intended to display light heartedness , I think that you are letting your frustration with Blade spill over to other posters. You are suggesting in your posts that I am downgrading due to age, I know Blade made an attack , but surely you haven't forgotten the post below from Bluedan's poll thread?




Brian

I'm sorry if you do think that or I am displaying that Brian, I meant no ill intentions towards you.

In fact I would consider you a friend (despite our quarrels on other posts, but what friend doesn't quarrel with the other sometimes).

I'll admit as I already have Blade hit a bum note to me on his post, That sole purpose is why people are scared to comment their age on forums like this due to being ridiculed for being too young and inexperienced.

Sorry for the misconception Brian.

Hope all is okay :)
 

ConnorGiles

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The reason I say that the US is a hopeless case, lost cause, call it what you will, is because the political will to make any changes is not there, and even if it were I doubt that it would be possible. The resources and cost would be colossal.

Dick and Blade are not the only pro gun people on the forum, others have had their say and moved on.

Brian

Indeed, but all it takes is one person to get into power, and things could change Brian.

Maybe not in the foreseeable future, Or maybe next election.
 

Brianwarnock

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Yep, Connor, all is ok, I just wanted to clear things up.
I'm too old to worry about what people think of me but prefer them to dislike me for an honest reason rather than a misconception. :D

Arguing and disagreeing are good, hell that's the reason I come here now that I can no longer do much on the techie side.

Brian
 

Brianwarnock

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Indeed, but all it takes is one person to get into power, and things could change Brian.

Maybe not in the foreseeable future, Or maybe next election.

I cannot agree on this, I don't think any president would seriously take on, not only the NRA but the people. Blade is correct in that they would not hand over their guns if asked, enough television documentaries have shown the strength of feeling amongst the ordinary gun lovers.

Brian
 

ConnorGiles

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Yep, Connor, all is ok, I just wanted to clear things up.
I'm too old to worry about what people think of me but prefer them to dislike me for an honest reason rather than a misconception. :D

Arguing and disagreeing are good, hell that's the reason I come here now that I can no longer do much on the techie side.

Brian

Always nice ;) - You probably know more than me Brian, I just tend to try and help where the problem suites my expertise :p
 

Bladerunner

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As said before if you are such a model gun owner and do everything by the book then it shouldn't be a problem a 5 minute check-up. Even if they do find minor problems then they will instruct you on the right path on what to do to minimize risk.

Read and remember the past! I bring this up because of your so-called society rules.While they are well intentioned, a rule is subject to future interpretation.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/365103/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook

*******
While your at it check out the UN and their indeaver to 'control' guns on the USA. http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-nations

UN Small Arms Programme of Action (UNPoA) "summarised as: 'regulating small arms transfers and brokering activities; criminalising the illegal manufacture, possession, stockpiling and trade of small arms and light weapons; ensuring that weapons be marked and registered; enforcing arms embargoes; destroying surplus and confiscated weapons :banghead:; raising public awareness."

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-nations

Do you call this gun control?????? No but deep down you agree with most parts of it .YES??????



Debate of Psch test and Gun Control.
http://www.debate.org/opinions/only...fully-pass-a-psychological-test-can-have-guns

You say a psch test will answer all the questions needed to control guns. Psch test are very subjective almost to a equivalency of the Salem Witch Hunts. All someone had to do was point a finger and you lost your life. A law is not subjective but REAL. IF "Johnny broke the law last night pointing his gun at someone, which will result in him losing his ability to own a gun should it be proven to be true (the key)". A psch test is very pregnant with abuse.

The bottom line is Connor; gun control DOES NOT work! in your country or in mine. So, I ask one more time, why the continued push to control them????. There is only one answer to that:Raise the bar high enough so guns are illegal to own and then we will have true gun control. Look to your own country here. Registered owners of guns yet same or close to the same amount of gun deaths each year since.gun control DOES NOT work! Only the Bad Guys will have them.

p.s. During the weeks of rioting in Mo, guns sales reached about 2 per minute throughout the state. WHY????????Protection??????.

I know you cannot understand this Connor since you have never had to live in it or around it but I can tell you from experience that living close to an area that is being rioted or burnt down is a nerve racking event. Are you going to be next ???? When that happens self-preservation kicks in. Please remember this as a certain group of people in your country get close to a 50% population, there will be blood shed.

Connor, I was not referring to you age but the fact that you probably have never had to live near anything such as that because if you did, you opinion of gun control would change.
 

Bladerunner

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P.S. I think it is very disrespectful to refer to them as dogs, Please refrain from this in the future please. They're there to help, not to be insulted.

I am sorry that you took that as disrespect. I forget sometimes who I am speaking with. We in the South refer sometimes to our police as law-dogs affectionately. You see we in the south LOVE our dogs. From the lowly Junk-yard dog (protects the property) to the house-dog, they are the best friends you will have. They will always be there for you in any condition wanting only your LOVE. Yes, our law-enforcement are defiantly law-dogs.
 

Bladerunner

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Ill say this in this comment - regarding Blade & Dick, to me it sounds like you are interpreting the words in the ways you wish.

Second of all, Not really warm my heart, That's someone's son - Yes he was a threat (try thinking back to my comment on mentality checks and waiting times for guns :) ) but a death could have been avoided here. He was probably mentally unstable, He belonged in an asylum not a grave.

Your compassion for a murderer astounds me!
 

Bladerunner

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I was asking in general, I was asking in what you think I should learn?

I can tell topics are lost over time, This thread shows me enough.

I do not take offence easily Brian, In fact I am quite light hearted. Its when people down grade due to age, That is indeed annoying.

I would consider myself quite clued in (nothing in comparison to most) but discouraging someone due to age just isn't right.

I shall also refer to what I said before - (In my opinion) "No-one is past hope Brian, It is that state of mind in which nothing gets accomplished - Dick and Blade do not speak for America, They are just 2 people."

Hi Connor: I agree with you that some deaths by guns can be prevented with additional training, etc. However, the coming into ones home for an inspection is a little too much. The psch test as I have stated is very pregnant with abuse.

However, all you have to do is look to your country where gun control has not worked either even though you have removed handguns (down to about 4-5,000) from your society. If you applied your reasoning to your country, would it work? Would you enjoy someone coming in and searching your house on a whim or because someone told the gov. that they saw you with a gun. Or, maybe place someone in a pysch ward because a neighbor stated that they were out in the yard just "waving the gun (they had a permit for) around like a crazy person". NO, don't say it could not happen, because in all likely-hood that neighbor is someone who hates guns and or has an agenda to control them. Any Dibs here? What kind of person would turn someone in because it is against the law, their rights or maybe you just made them angry at you for some reason or another.

My point is , when you get into subjective pseudo-laws, you really do open up a BIG can of worms and It will cull no country.
 

ConnorGiles

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Read and remember the past! I bring this up because of your so-called society rules.While they are well intentioned, a rule is subject to future interpretation.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/365103/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook

I know nothing of Stephen Halbrook, But from a quick search I have found he has won 2 cases against the government to do with Gun Control.

This says to me that he is a hand to heart "Gun Person".

Which removes the Reliability of information from him in my eyes, as it would usually be swayed by his opinions NOT facts.
*******

While your at it check out the UN and their indeaver to 'control' guns on the USA. http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-nations

UN Small Arms Programme of Action (UNPoA) "summarised as: 'regulating small arms transfers and brokering activities; criminalising the illegal manufacture, possession, stockpiling and trade of small arms and light weapons; ensuring that weapons be marked and registered; enforcing arms embargoes; destroying surplus and confiscated weapons :banghead:; raising public awareness."

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-nations

Do you call this gun control?????? No but deep down you agree with most parts of it .YES??????

Now lets address this - UNPoA is the more advanced way of saying - take guns away from criminals. Please take note of the one word you missed "Illegal" This means that if you aren't illegally in possession of a firearm then you would be safe to possess one.

This should affect you then? So what's the problem?

The Destroying part is to destroy an illegal weapon. NOT yours - This is more than likely due to the fact that it was imported illegally. This still does not relate to you.

Debate of Psch test and Gun Control.
http://www.debate.org/opinions/only...fully-pass-a-psychological-test-can-have-guns

You say a psch test will answer all the questions needed to control guns. Psch test are very subjective almost to a equivalency of the Salem Witch Hunts. All someone had to do was point a finger and you lost your life. A law is not subjective but REAL. IF "Johnny broke the law last night pointing his gun at someone, which will result in him losing his ability to own a gun should it be proven to be true (the key)". A psch test is very pregnant with abuse.

The funny thing about this one Blade, is that I think you didn't read anything but the percentage on this link, Go back and read some of the comments such as "No human being should have a Gun, Period" - This would obviously make up for the missing percent on the opposite side. As it seems, A lot of people dislike guns on that Debate website :)

Better use a better source Blade ;)

The bottom line is Connor; gun control DOES NOT work! in your country or in mine. So, I ask one more time, why the continued push to control them????. There is only one answer to that:Raise the bar high enough so guns are illegal to own and then we will have true gun control. Look to your own country here. Registered owners of guns yet same or close to the same amount of gun deaths each year since.gun control DOES NOT work! Only the Bad Guys will have them.

On this occasion you may be right on some circumstances, BUT not all.

Gun Control is not impossible. It would be a struggle, but not impossible.

No-one is trying to take any guns away, even if they were they would come armed WITH guns also which would not end well on either side. You can not take guns away from people WITH guns! It would just be a stalemate.(which it already is in a way).

No bar is being raised here, In my opinion it is what should happen any way - You are allowed to have a firearm/Long rifle/whatever - as long as you have been examined and proved fit and mentally healthy to do so - and from that people would be a lot safer due to less people being found responsible or mentally fit enough to have one. The people like yourself would have no issues passing this test and keeping your weapons.


p.s. During the weeks of rioting in Mo, guns sales reached about 2 per minute throughout the state. WHY????????Protection??????.

Doubtful, But maybe so - I wasn't there so I cannot comment on what happened.

I know you cannot understand this Connor since you have never had to live in it or around it but I can tell you from experience that living close to an area that is being rioted or burnt down is a nerve racking event. Are you going to be next ???? When that happens self-preservation kicks in. Please remember this as a certain group of people in your country get close to a 50% population, there will be blood shed.

I certainly hope you are not racially slandering Blade, Due to your recent comments on posts I'm assuming you mean Islamic/Muslim people ,I've said this before and I will again. MOST but not all of Islamic/Muslim people I have met have been lovely company and wonderful to speak to. I do not know where you have developed this sudden prophecy of this happening. I've been reading about our politics here and the way they seem to be cracking down on immigration and I can probably ensure that it wont come to that situation.

Connor, I was not referring to you age but the fact that you probably have never had to live near anything such as that because if you did, you opinion of gun control would change.

I doubt it would Blade, and I do believe you were referring to my age, due to the fact you proclaimed "ah how it was to be 17,18 again" then went on to say you would "clear it up" for anyone else my age.

My opinion would not change if I was inside a riot or not - Cracking down on gun control in my opinion can only help you be safe and I don't know why you would be against it. Nowhere has it said that anything was being taken away (Unless you are a danger to anyone else or yourself - be it mentally unfit or irresponsible). This would thin the crowd if you like. Reduce the number of accidental deaths, and maybe even some of the intentional deaths.

Any improvement on reducing death tolls is Okay in my books.
 
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ConnorGiles

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Let me reiterate on what you said Blade (about me being too young to understand anything other than what I have been taught.

let me address that. It the children. ever since the internet went hot, the kids have thought of nothing else. I say kids, I mean young adults of voting age. They are not old enough to stand for something other than what the colleges (>>>>) professors have taught them so they will fall prey to everything the politicians tell them will make their life better. Back then it was handguns, tomorrow, your longguns and next year, you need a chip in your hand so they know who and where you are at all times. It is coming my friend. Beware!

Take Mr. Connor, he is a young fellow and has high ideas. Oh to be 17-18 again with those ideas and that testosterone? lol... I have got to ask him a few questions this evening that should clear things up, hopefully for him and others his age.

have a good evening.
 

ConnorGiles

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I am sorry that you took that as disrespect. I forget sometimes who I am speaking with. We in the South refer sometimes to our police as law-dogs affectionately. You see we in the south LOVE our dogs. From the lowly Junk-yard dog (protects the property) to the house-dog, they are the best friends you will have. They will always be there for you in any condition wanting only your LOVE. Yes, our law-enforcement are defiantly law-dogs.

In the UK, Being called a Dog is like being called a low life - I myself Love my dogs dearly - always have been a dog person as I was raised this way.

Being called a Dog is usually accompanied by harsh comments in the UK. (I can only speak for my area of course.)
 

ConnorGiles

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Your compassion for a murderer astounds me!

Not compassion for him, His family - It never said anywhere in this article he killed anyone - only that he shot at buildings?

Also compassion to the families who's children he killed.

I can only imagine the pain they are going through and my thoughts are with them.

But the fact stands that if someone mentally unstable like that could obtain numerous firearms then something needs to change.
 

ConnorGiles

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Hi Connor: I agree with you that some deaths by guns can be prevented with additional training, etc. However, the coming into ones home for an inspection is a little too much. The psch test as I have stated is very pregnant with abuse.

If that is the benefactor in which stops innocents being killed, So be it.
If it reduces the number by even 1 death a year. I would see a light at the end of the tunnel.

However, all you have to do is look to your country where gun control has not worked either even though you have removed handguns (down to about 4-5,000) from your society. If you applied your reasoning to your country, would it work? Would you enjoy someone coming in and searching your house on a whim or because someone told the gov. that they saw you with a gun. Or, maybe place someone in a pysch ward because a neighbor stated that they were out in the yard just "waving the gun (they had a permit for) around like a crazy person". NO, don't say it could not happen, because in all likely-hood that neighbor is someone who hates guns and or has an agenda to control them. Any Dibs here?

My point is , when you get into subjective pseudo-laws, you really do open up a BIG can of worms and It will cull no country.

I think you are misunderstanding here - I'm not talking about them walking in on a whim - Its regular checks. every month or two - Like a boiler check for example.

To be honest, If my neighbour was in the back garden waving his gun about loaded. Chances are he could let off some unintentional rounds. Maybe leading to an unintentional death. So I would do the same.

What kind of person would turn someone in because it is against the law, their rights or maybe you just made them angry at you for some reason or another.

That my friend would be called "A Law Abiding Citizen"

As said before Those "Can of Worms" could save lives - and If just one life could be spared a year. Then we have set the ball rolling.
 

Bladerunner

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If that is the benefactor in which stops innocents being killed, So be it. If it reduces the number by even 1 death a year. I would see a light at the end of the tunnel.

So would you kill another to save that one innocent life?
 

ConnorGiles

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That is counter productive Blade, Why would they need to be killed?

This is about Gun control - Being safe and responsible could dramatically reduce the number of accidental deaths.
 

Bladerunner

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That is counter productive Blade, Why would they need to be killed?

This is about Gun control - Being safe and responsible could dramatically reduce the number of accidental deaths.
Hmmmmm?

With your pysch test, you are opening the door for a major abuse. It would be very easy for well educated pysch person employed by the government to check people who owned guns to simply fail them for no reason other than to adhere to political policy. Yes, it has been done before in the USAs sorted past.

Your open door policy, (checking to see if guns owned are stored safely) is not only subject to abuse but opens every door in the nation to illegal search and seizure without any legal recourse. I know you will say it will not happen but here in the USA we just got LIED to by the Top Gov Officials about Obama care. Why would I trust the gov to do anything that would be in my best interest if it were politically motivated. I see that your government is much better to its people. (i.e. handgun laws that did nothing except to disarm the people)

Having said that, I hope that what you propose will never come to pass in either of our countries. I believe that far more innocent people (though not by accidents or negligence) will die. You do not believe ' Stephen Halbrook,' because what he owns guns. Yet, he showed you a bit of history as it actually happened. For you and the youth of the world to dismiss that, would be to repeat history. 60,00 million people died in that war, lets not repeat it. You throw out the UN article because it stated something about 'illegal' somewhere in the article and assumed that it was talking about only illegal activities. I guess you and I comprehend the written word a little (no, a whole lot) different.

I do respect your opinions and am glad you have the fortitude and conviction to speak it. Hopefully my gun will never be fired at nothing but a paper target or maybe a deer, rabbit, squirrel, etc. However, if the need arises, it will be fired to protect an innocent life.

Have a good day Mr. Connor Giles
 
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ConnorGiles

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Hmmmmm?

With your pysch test, you are opening the door for a major abuse. It would be very easy for well educated pysch person employed by the government to check people who owned guns to simply fail them for no reason other than to adhere to political policy. Yes, it has been done before in the USAs sorted past.

Lets begin with this,

What would this person have to gain, Other than if someone found out they would lose their job? Yet again you seem to think people are out to get you Blade. I can assure you there are much bigger problems than taking your guns away.

Your open door policy, (checking to see if guns owned are stored safely) is not only subject to abuse but opens every door in the nation door to illegal search and seizure without any legal recourse. I know you will say, it will not be done but here in the USA we just got LIED to by the Top Gov Officials about Obama care. Why would I trust the gov to do anything that would be in my best interest if it were politically motivated. Your government is much better to its people. (i.e. handgun laws that did nothing except to disarm the people)
If this law was brought in, It wouldn't be Illegal - Of course it is at the mercy of the house owner but if you refuse then you obviously has something to hide (I don't see why you would refuse if you are such a model gun owner) - You will never know EVERYTHING - no matter what you do, sad truth I'm afraid. Doubtful even the president knows everything. But some secrets are best left unsaid - it would only cause unrest.

I can't tell if it was sarcasm the last statement or not :confused:

Having said that, I hope that what you propose will never come to pass in either of our countries. I believe that far more innocent people (though not by accidents or negligence) will die. You do not believe ' Stephen Halbrook,' because what he owns guns. Yet, he showed you a bit of history as it actually happened. For you to dismiss that, would be to repeat history. 60,00 million people died in that war, lets not repeat it. You throw out the UN article because it stated something about 'illegal' somewhere in the article and assumed that it was talking about only illegal activities. I guess you and I comprehend the written word a little (no, a whole lot) different.

Are you familiar with the phrase "Times Change" Blade? because they do - just because something has happened in the past DOESN'T mean it will happen today. I don't see a Nazi uprising on the way if I'm honest - Before you say anything about ISIS - 2 completely different stories.

As for the UN article, I said illegal because this only applies to ILLEGAL guns, not yours.... Re-read the UNPoA and tell me that that didn't apply to Illegal weapons not legal ones.

I will respect your opinions and try not to change them any further.! Hopefully my gun will never be fired at nothing but a paper target or maybe a deer, rabbit, squirrel, etc. However, if the need arises, it will be fired to protect an innocent life.

Have a good day Mr. Connor Giles

I'm a strong willed individual, (I get it from my mother :D) - My opinions are rarely changed, Hopefully you never will unload your firearm. I would hate to see you behind bars or worse - It isn't unheard of for the law to go against the person "defending themselves or others" when it could have easily been defused with a non lethal weapon since they were unarmed.

Have a good evening blade
 

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I would hate to have anybody entering my house to poke through my belongings no matter how legal.

Brian
 

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