The Qur'an (2 Viewers)

You have been brainwashed against Islam. I have tried to save you from reaching the fire, but to no avail.

No, I WAS brainwashed in my youth. For a while I was a Protestant. And then I opened my eyes and really LOOKED at what religion tried to tell me. All it takes to see the truth is to read the Bible or Quran with a questioning mind rather than a gullible one.

American humorist Mark Twain wrote: "The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible."

Ambrose Bierce, an American journalist, once offered this definition: Scriptures - The sacred books of our holy religion, as distinguished from the false and profane writings on which all other faiths are based.
 
Pray tell what that was before making a statement like that?
That's my point, the historical Jesus account is not accurately portrayed in the Quran, because if it was you would be a Christian and not a Muslim. You follow a Muhamad who isn't even mentioned one single time in any of the biblical text. Then you clearly deny Gods very own messiah and his holy spirit poured out to all of his disciples who were responsible for preserving the accounts unto their deaths. The holy spirt was given to all those who follow Christ and no other.

That's not your fault though. It's all because of religious traditions and Muslim religious scholars that actually read the bible realized there were many contradictions between the Quran and God's holy word in the Bible. They didn't know how to resolve it other than making up a story about how the Bible is corrupt and has been corrupted. You're scholars are lying to you big time. If you don't believe me you can go to the British library and there you can see one of the oldest complete New Testaments that we have. It’s called Codex Sinaiticus, it dates to about AD 350 … you can compare, if you’re a scholar, the text to what it says with the Bible we have today. Of course there are thousands and thousands of fragments of ancient material to go along with it. You better book your plane flight now and be prepared for a big slice of humble pie.

The other stuff you posted is a regurgitation of what Muslims like to think are contradictions and if you think they are, they will be to you. We all have our own deep seated world view based on our current understanding and what we assume to be true for various different reasons. I have examined all those references you made and there are no contradictions when you properly look at the full scope of all the text. You only jump to inaccurate conclusions based on a very narrow scope. Zoom out a little bit and you'll get it. If you stay focused on the minutia, you won't see the forest through the trees or in your case pine straw.

Do more research on those points you made and discover how the various authors have different backgrounds and some focused in on different details than others. This further confirms the accuracy of the accounts as when you get exact same written accounts, of course they are going to be viewed as being copied and therefore false. There are many well documented explanations for all your so called contradictions.

The only major contradiction is that the Quran says the Bible is accurate and your leaders know the bible contradicts it because they read it shortly after Muhamad's death, so they had to make up a story for you so the religious state of Islam could further have power over you. Now it's up to you go see for your self so you do not go down a dark path of being deceived by your religious leaders.
 
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28. Have you not seen those [disbelievers] who meet Allaah’s favours with ingratitude and lead their own people to their doom?
29. In Hell they will burn. What an evil place for settlement.
30. And they have attributed to Allaah equals to mislead [people] from His way. Say, "Enjoy yourselves, for indeed, your destination is the Fire."

Qur’an – Surah Ibrahim 14

It is He Who has created you; and of you are some that are Unbelievers, and some that are Believers: and Allaah sees well all that ye do.
Qur’an – Surah At-Taghabun 64:2

56. Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allaah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.
57. But those who believe and do righteous deeds - We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide forever. For them therein are purified spouses, and We will admit them to deepening shade.

Qur’an - Surah 4:56-7

6. Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.
10. In their hearts is DISEASE, so Allaah has INCREASED their DISEASE; and for them is a PAINFUL PUNISHMENT because they [habitually] used to LIE.
11. And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
12. Unquestionably, it is they who are the CORRUPTERS, but they perceive [it] not.
17. Their example is that of one who kindled a fire, but when it illuminated what was around him, Allaah took away their light and left them in darkness [so] they could not see.
18. DEAF, DUMB and BLIND- so they will not return [to the right path].
19. Or [it is] like a rainstorm from the sky within which is darkness, thunder and lightning. They put their fingers in their ears against the thunderclaps in dread of death. But Allaah is encompassing of the disbelievers.
20. The lightning almost snatches away their sight. Every time it lights [the way] for them, they walk therein; but when darkness comes over them, they stand [still]. And if Allaah had willed, He could have taken away their hearing and their sight. Indeed, Allaah is over all things competent.

Qur'an Sura 2

167. Those who reject Faith and keep off [men] from the way of Allaah, have verily strayed far, far away from the Path.
168. Those who reject Faith and do wrong,- Allaah will not forgive them nor guide them to any way-
169. Except the way of Hell, to dwell therein for ever. And this to Allaah is easy.
170. O Mankind! The Messenger hath come to you in truth from Allaah: believe in him: It is best for you. But if ye reject Faith, to Allaah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: And Allaah is All-knowing, All-wise.
171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was [no more than] a messenger of Allaah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allaah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allaah is one Allaah: Glory be to Him: [far exalted is He] above having a son.
To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allaah as a Disposer of affairs.

Qur'an 4:167-171

God the Creator of everything will be the Judge not His creation.

Those who REJECT God in His Oneness will enter HELLFIRE :)
 
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Quran with a questioning mind rather than a gullible one.

I did and still do read the Qur'an with a questioning mind, but you don't by the fact you outright reject the verses due to arrogance even when I ask you to obtain evidence of your rejection as I have done recently, you have no answer.

That's my point

The points you make are totally invalid.

Jesus (peace be upon him) account is portrayed accurately in the Qur'an and as the author sees fit and Jesus (peace be upon him) was a Muslim. Jesus (peace be upon him) would be ashamed by the beliefs of the so-called 'Christians' which he didn't preach. He preached the Oneness of God without any divisions. The Muslims are nearer to Jesus (peace be upon him) than you and others like you.

Muhammad (peace be upon him) was mentioned, by the name of Ahmad, in the Injeel which we do not have.

And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allaah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.” But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, “this is evident sorcery!”
Qur’an - Surah as-Saff (The Ranks) 61:6 See also The New Testament - John 16:7-16

If an article of faith in Islam is to accept Jesus (peace be upon him) as a Prophet\Messenger\Maseeh, how is that a denial of him. What you are saying just makes no sense. Oh and BTW there were aother Maseeh's before.

When the angels said: “O Mary! Allaah gives you the good news of a Word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, who is illustrious in this world and the hereafter, and who is one of those brought near [to Allaah].
Qur'an 3.45

The Holy Spirit, in Islam has always been the highest ranked angel Gabriel (peace be upon him) and not what you attribute to him.

171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion or utter anything concerning Allaah but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allaah, His Word that He sent to Mary, and a Spirit (Gabriel) from Him [that He sent]. So believe in Allaah and His messengers, and do not say “Three.” Desist, it is better for you! Allaah is one God. Far exalted is He above having offspring. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth. Allaah is sufficient a disposer of affairs.
172. The Messiah would never scorn to be a servant to Allaah, nor would the angels who are nearest to Allaah. As for those who scorn His service and are arrogantly proud, He shall gather them all to Himself to answer.

Qur'an 4.171-2

Interesting that you didn't challenge the Biblical contradictions in any DETAIL that you were so confident didn't exist. I wonder why? Oh and BTW I did zooooom out, and guess what the contradictions remained. :)

I know that the oldest NT was written by man in the 4th century. Some of the contradictions in the present day Bibles are based on COMPARING the earliest man written parchment. For example 1John 5:7 doesn't even appear in that. It was added around the 16th century. Of course you can add\edit\remove from any man made works. The people of old however did the same to the Torah which they shouldn't have done. Hence the need of the final Scripture which God Himself said He would preserve, which He has done. If it wasn't for that, the Muslims, like the previous nations, would have changed it as well.

The number of books in the Protestant and Catholic Bible are even different. There is ONLY One Qur'an.

Be prepared for a big slice of humble pie, wherever you are. Going somewhere else, even into the heavens, isn't going to change the TRUTH. You don't wield that much power that you can change the TRUE Word of God. Do more research and stop making false excuses. Get your head out of the sand and open your eyes.

So have they not traveled through the earth and have hearts by which to reason and ears by which to hear? For indeed, it is not eyes that are blinded, but blinded are the hearts which are within the breasts.
Qur’an 22:46

This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I PERFECTED your religion for you and COMPLETED my favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion AL-ISLAM.
Qur’an - Surah al-Ma’aida (The Table Spread) 5:3

Briefly give us the well documented explanation to the contradictions I gave you. Make my day :)
Don't go down a dark path of being deceived by your religious leaders.

The Qur'an confirms that previous Scriptures were revealed and that the previous Scriptures were corrupted.

The Books of Abraham and Moses.
Qur’an - Surah al-A`ala (The Most High) 87:19 See also 21:48 and 4:54.

We have sent thee (Muhammad) inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.

Qur’an - Surah an-Nisaa’ (The Women) 4:163

84. Say (O Muhammad): We believe in Allaah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
85. And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allaah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:84-5

No just estimate of Allaah do they make when they say: “Nothing doth Allaah send down to man (by way of revelation)” Say: “Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought? - a light and guidance to man: But ye make it into (SEPARATE) sheets for show, while ye CONCEAL much (of its contents): therein were ye taught that which ye knew not- neither ye nor your fathers.” Say: “Allaah (sent it down)”: Then leave them to plunge in vain discourse and trifling.
Qur’an - Surah al-An’aam (Cattle) 6:91 See also 2:75, 3:78, 3:187, 3:199, 4:46, 4:162, 5:12 and 5:44.


It's clear, that you know nothing about Islam but happy to make wild statements to uphold your FALSE beliefs. Like The_Doc_Man, I also attended a Protestant school and was brainwashed but when I grew up and fact checked some of the nonsense I was taught, it wasn't difficult to reject it. I was taught that Jesus (peace be upon him) claimed to be the 'begotten' son of God, and yet the word 'begotten' doesn't even appear in the 4 designated gospels from the original 79 gospels.
 
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I have to agree, I neither have patience like @The_Doc_Man nor the intelligence like him.
I am taking a retirement from this thread.
English is not primary language, am trying find meaning of the verb 'searching needle in a hey stack'
 
since so many people have said that they're now bowing out, I hope to see a bunch of posts from aziz preaching to the thin air. =)
 
There are some rather stunning encodings of numbers to words and characters that authenticate the accuracy of the English translation and overall approval of Gods signature throughout the scriptures as it pertains to the King James version of the bible. In the referenced video the analysis derives a special number pattern of 17/23 in both the very first verse of the bible and the last verse of the bible. The all stems from the fact that God is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. This is explained in the video but if you count the number of letters in the first verse Gen 1:1(KJV), there are 44 letters. The last verse of the New Testament Rev 22:21 also has 44 letters in it. You can check how many times this occurs in the bible and you might be surprised to find how rare it is. There is no other verse in the entire book of Revelations that has 44 letters in it, let alone landing on the very last verse of the bible!




So where does the 17/27 come from? That comes from an examination of the ratio of vowels to consonants in those very same verses. There are exactly 17 vowels and 27 consonants in both the first verse of the bible and last verse of the bible. But what could that possibly mean?

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If you look further into this 17/27 algorithm, you discover that 17 and 27 corresponds to the first and last days of Noah's flood.

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Now it goes on to point out that those same verses show the first 17 letters Gen 1:1 points directly to God. Then the last 27 letters of Rev 22:21 show Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Further confirmation of 17/27 shows that last verse pointing to Jesus using 27 letters. So the number 17 is associated with the beginning and Jesus is associated with the end. But wait, isn't God the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End?

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We all know that God's plainly obvious number is 7 and how that was arrived at is plain to anyone who has read it. I'm not going over that. If you go to the 777th chapter of the bible you arrive at Jeremiah 32, and lo and behold there is that number 17 again but this time spelled out as seventeen. This was the 17 shekels of silver that
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Now count how many verses are in that chapter, you get 44 verses!!! It's starting to look like God's way of putting his coded signature on his word. In the picture below, there is number 7 by way of counting the letters in the first and last words of each of the two verses together. They are both 7 letters. This is where things really get interesting. The word Amen capitalized shows up exactly 77 times in the bible. The word "in" case insensitive shows up exactly 777 times in the two books Genesis and Revelation.

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He is using a digital version which makes it easy to explore for these types of patterns obviously. When he put God and Jesus in there filtering on both books. The resulting occurrences is 343. What's special about 343? That's 7 cubed! Which leads right back to, you guessed it, 777. If you watch the video at around the 17 minute mark, he goes over the filters that correlated to the number 77777 which go through the entire bible using the first and last words of each of the key verses.

I am aware of the apparent contradictions that are in the bible. We all look at the world through our own eye's and have our own world view of what it means to us individually. In other words, we all have our own filters we put on so as not to upset our world view or belief system. As Galaxiom said earlier, the tendency to throw out what doesn't fit our world view is almost automatic. This is easy to see in others, but very difficult to be introspective on one's own filtered views. Clearly, if you look for contradictions or typo's in any book, you will find some because that is what you set out to do. Plus, you don't want to find out that the bible is without error and realize Muslims have got only part of the message and are missing out on the most relevant message for today's time period. Looking for contradictions and finding them makes it easier for you to just ignore the main message that has been codified by God himself through his Holy Spirit. This is very clear to those who have read through both the old and new testaments. Beware of false prophets is something each person has to do for themselves. Test the spirit that it is true to the word.

As far as the 4 gospels, they are the accounts from the witnesses to what Jesus did during his ministry and final important message that he gave all of his disciples before his death, resurrection, and ascension back into heaven. The message was to go out to all of the people and they were not to discriminate as to who the message was delivered. It's totally up to the receiver of the message whether they should come to the faith in Jesus as the true messianic person spoken about all throughout the bible in cleverly encoded ways that all believers can see clearly, but non-believers cannot see at all. Let's face it, we both believe we are right about our beliefs, and this extends to other religions as well, but not all of them can be right. We all have our reasons for ruling out one or the other.

Knowingness about things that are unknowable cannot be known unless they are revealed to us so I can understand why Mohamad was viewed as a special prophet. There is no other way to know about these things. God has made all of us with the ability to access him in a very personal way and flip the bit that opens the connection to him through our Lord and savior Jesus Christ the messiah. Once the connection is made, we also have the ability flip that bit off and drop the connection which sets us back on that same course of missing out on the greatest calling you can ever have, to serve God. Serving self leads to death and destruction in ways most people just will not realize until it is too late. We cannot serve two masters. The reason for life itself is to make that connection with God and keep that bit flipped to the on position as much as possible. Learning how to keep that bit set isn't always easy and in some cases could be burdensome, but most of us are not called to be martyrs for the faith, most are just required to listen to what the holy spirit is telling them to do and doing it according to God's will. Of course this is not blind Simon says jump off the cliff, and you jump. There has to be discernment to know which are the false prophets or spirits, and which one's are true to the Word. If you know the word, you know the true spirits and who you can listen to. If you don't know the word, there is a rather big danger that one could fall prey to false prophets and spirits that are clearly not of God. Whole religions or factions of religions are based on false prophets or information that is not of God. Muslims believe in the same God we do, but they are without the true account of his identity and purpose beyond that of a prophet. If you believe in works that lead to some kind of reward for obedience. None of that matters if you have not faith in the blood that covers all the sins of the world which only comes by way of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. There is just no other way and you cannot drive around it, you cannot fight with God about it, you cannot point out contradictions in the bible to hand wave it away. Without faith in him, you will be judged according to your deeds alone. Good luck with that. Remember what he said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That is as clear as day my friend. There is no direct way to the Father without following the letter of the law perfectly. Since this is not achievable by anyone that I know, it is clear why God the Father sent his son for us and on behalf of us who believe in him. There is no other way.
It is amazing how many things God has provided as evidence of Him, but generally short of appearing in front of us during this life - as that would result in a relationship where Trust had never been required nor given.
 
Heed the words of this great man:-

Heed the words of God.

Then by the Lord of the heaven and earth, indeed, it is truth - just as [sure as] it is that you are speaking.
Qur'an 52:23

And brought [within view], that Day, is Hell - that Day, man will remember, but what good to him will be the remembrance?
Qur'an 89:23

It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
Qur’an - Surah at-Tauba (The Repentance) 9:33

81. And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."
82. “And We send down of the Qur’an that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe and it increases the transgressors in nothing but loss.”

Qur’an - Surah al-Israa’ (The Night Journey) 17:81-82
 
aziz, I'm not ...

Verily We have revealed the Book to thee (Muhammad) in Truth, for (instructing) mankind. He, then, that receives guidance benefits his own soul: but he that strays injures his own soul. Nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs.
Qur’an – Surah az-Zumar (The Groups) 39:41

1. Say (O Muhammad) : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been won't to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

Qur'an al Kafirun 109:1-6
 
I no longer consider it worth my time to seek specific articles to refute you,

Then why reject something before finding some evidence? Strange behaviour.

71. The Unbelievers will be led to Hell in crowd: until, when they arrive, there, its gates will be opened. And its keepers will say, “Did not messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing to you the Signs of your Lord, and warning you of the Meeting of This Day of yours?” The answer will be: “True: but the Decree of Punishment has been proved true against the Unbelievers!”
72. (To them) will be said: “Enter ye the gates of Hell, to dwell therein: and evil is (this) Abode of the Arrogant!”

Qur’an – Surah az-Zumar (The Groups) 39:71-2
 

Indeed, those who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle. And thus do We recompense the criminals.
Qur'an 7:40
 

Abraham along with his only son at the time Ismail (peace be upon them) were commanded by God to rebuild the Kaaba in the city of Makkah (ancient name Bacca) after it was initially built by Adam with the aid of Gabriel (peace be upon him) many centuries earlier.

125. Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
126. And remember Abraham said: “My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in Allaah and the Last Day.” He said: “(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!”
127. And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): “Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.

Qur’an - Surah al-Baqara (The Heifer) 2:125-7 See also 22:26-27, Psalm 138:2, Isaiah 42:10-11, Isaiah 60:7 and John 4:19-21

When Abraham (peace be upon him) was leaving the city of Makkah, God asked him call out to the Muslims, in thin air as there was no one around, to come the House. Abraham replied to God to say that there was no one, but God asked him again. You only have to see how many millions of believers in the God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) go to Makkah to fulfil their obligations to God.

26. And when We assigned for Abraham the place of the House, saying “Do not associate Anything with Me, and purify My House for those who go around it and for those who stand and bow and prostrate themselves in worship.
27. And proclaim the Pilgrimage among humankind: They will come to you on foot and on every camel made lean by travelling deep, distant ravines.

Qur’an – Surah al-Hajj (The Pilgrimage) 22:26-7

The voice of Islam began many thousands of years ago from the time of Adam (peace be upon him) until today, and it cannot be extinguished much as you may hate it.

54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allaah too planned, and the best of planners is Allaah.
55. Behold! Allaah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
56. “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”
57. “As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allaah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allaah loveth not those who do wrong.”

Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:54-7 See also 3:90.

They want to extinguish the light of Allaah with their mouths, but Allaah refuses except to perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.
Qur’an - Surah at-Tauba (The Repentance) 9:32
 
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2. The true believers are those whose hearts are filled with awe at the mention of God, and whose faith grows stronger as they listen to His revelations. They are they who put their trust in their Lord, pray steadfastly and give in alms from We gave them.
3. Who establish worship and spend of that We have bestowed on them.
4. Such in truth are the believers: they have grades of dignity with their Lord, and forgiveness, and generous sustenance:

Qur’an - Surah al-Anfal (The Spoils of War) 8:2-4 Compare with 2:10.
 
All attempts at dissuading me from the TRUE belief of Islam, will NEVER work as I intend, by God's grace and Mercy, to enter PARADISE.
Why should I follow FALSEHOOD and go to HELLFIRE?

1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been won't to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

Qur'an al Kafirun 109:1-6
 
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Then why reject something before finding some evidence? Strange behaviour.

I will answer this simply: Credibility. To believe in the divinity purported to exist according to the Quran requires me to believe in the supernatural. Once it reaches that point, I no long care because you can NEVER prove the existence of the supernatural as it is used in religious texts. That which can be accepted without proof can also be REJECTED without proof.
 
Then why reject something before finding some evidence? Strange behaviour.
Then why accept something before finding some evidence? There is no evidence for any of the nonsense stories in the Qur'an or the Bible.

The notion that one's own gospel is the only truth and all others are corrupted is universal among the believers.
 

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