the debt ceiling (1 Viewer)

[Pat Hartman]

It is important to keep talking to the republicans at the state level because they are the ones who need to secure the next election. So far, they're pretty blind to the probem.

 

[conception_native_0123]

So far, they're pretty blind to the probem.

no they're not. the problem is a revolving door. it will always exist.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

back to the original issue.... What in the world does budget reconciliation mean?

It is yet another liberal/Democrat trick of the rules of Congress to "adjust" a budget with a minimum vote to redirect funds. Unlike original budgets that require 60% votes in Congress, reconciliation requires 50% plus a tie-breaker - which is cast by the Speaker of the House, Nancy herself.

 

[Steve R.]

Seems that Biden has no problem with publicly intimidating those in the Democratic Party should they be reluctant to blindly toe the party line. On the surface it would appear that Biden (secretly Sanders???) is not interested in compromise or unity within the Democratic party. My way of the highway.

Biden says Manchin, Sinema being confronted by activists is 'part of the process'

President Biden responded to the confrontations Democratic Sens. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema have faced in recent days amid their lack of support for critical items in his agenda, saying he doesn’t think the tactics used against them are “appropriate,” but said it is “part of the process.”

www.foxnews.com

 

[conception_native_0123]

Unlike original budgets that require 60% votes in Congress, reconciliation requires 50% plus a tie-breaker - which is cast by the Speaker of the House, Nancy herself.

then it sounds like the reconciliation will work, if everything else fails.

 

[AccessBlaster]

The Dems control the executive branch and both houses of congress, they can pass anything they want.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Actually, a couple of Democratic moderates have even opposed the reconciliation tactic, so there might be some serious log-rolling in Congress to even get that part passed. The moderate branch of the Dems (there ARE such creatures, ... really) seem to realize that for the Progressive branch, enough is too much.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Nice!

Yang quits Democratic party in favor of being independent​

 

[conception_native_0123]

Actually, a couple of Democratic moderates have even opposed the reconciliation tactic

there are more than just moderates to the dems. there are centrists, progressives, extreme liberals and some others. so, getting something, ANYTHING passed is not always that easy.

 

[moke123]

It is yet another liberal/Democrat trick of the rules of Congress to "adjust" a budget with a minimum vote to redirect funds. Unlike original budgets that require 60% votes in Congress, reconciliation requires 50% plus a tie-breaker - which is cast by the Speaker of the House, Nancy herself.

looks to me like republicans have used it more than democrats.

Congress	Party control	Reconciliation legislation
117th (2017–2018)	Republican	Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 $1.9 trillion tax cuts signed by President Donald Trump in December 2017
117th (2017–2018)	Republican	American Health Care Act of 2017* Legislation to repeal the Affordable Care Act (ACA)
111th (2009–2010)	Democratic	Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 Companion legislation to the ACA that enabled its passage and reformed student loan programs
109th (2005–2006)	Republican	Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 $99 billion in cuts from federal programs including Medicare and Medicaid
109th (2005–2006)	Republican	Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 Extension of certain Bush tax cuts, costing $69 billion
108th (2003–2004)	Republican	Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 $330 billion tax cuts signed by President George W. Bush
107th (2001–2002)	Republican	Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 $1.35 trillion tax cuts signed by President George W. Bush
103rd (1993–1994)	Democratic	Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1993 Deficit-reduction package signed by President Bill Clinton
96th (1979–1980)	Democratic	Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980 Deficit-reduction package signed by President Jimmy Carter

 

[NauticalGent]

Both sides are just as screwed up. They love it that we argue amongst ourselves over whose shits stinks worse.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

In this case, Moke123, I can't disagree with you. I don't know who used it first but I know that it is an end-around play regardless of who uses it. The point of putting 60% vote requirements on Congress was to make the budget a compromise - which they now ignore through reconciliation.

 

[AccessBlaster]

 

[Isaac]

50% plus a tie-breaker - which is cast by the Speaker of the House, Nancy herself.

The Vice President breaks any actual ties in the Senate

 

[Isaac]

looks to me like republicans have used it more than democrats.

Congress	Party control	Reconciliation legislation
117th (2017–2018)	Republican	Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 $1.9 trillion tax cuts signed by President Donald Trump in December 2017
117th (2017–2018)	Republican	American Health Care Act of 2017* Legislation to repeal the Affordable Care Act (ACA)
111th (2009–2010)	Democratic	Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 Companion legislation to the ACA that enabled its passage and reformed student loan programs
109th (2005–2006)	Republican	Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 $99 billion in cuts from federal programs including Medicare and Medicaid
109th (2005–2006)	Republican	Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 Extension of certain Bush tax cuts, costing $69 billion
108th (2003–2004)	Republican	Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 $330 billion tax cuts signed by President George W. Bush
107th (2001–2002)	Republican	Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 $1.35 trillion tax cuts signed by President George W. Bush
103rd (1993–1994)	Democratic	Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1993 Deficit-reduction package signed by President Bill Clinton
96th (1979–1980)	Democratic	Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980 Deficit-reduction package signed by President Jimmy Carter

Context Matters.

Simply thinking "Ooh, budget reconciliation is Bad, therefore anyone who uses it is Bad", is based on a misunderstanding of the purpose of the process, and probably leads to not meaningfully interpreting Moke's table.

Budget Reconciliation Process is meant to include bills closely related to spending, debt and revenue.

Tax changes would be right down the line of "expected topics" on budget reconciliation acts - and there would be nothing wrong, unusual or untoward about it whatsoever. That may be why, as you notice, most budget reconciliation bills historically have been about exactly that!

Note that the majority of the items in that list, both Republican and Democrat, actually, ARE germane to the appropriate topics.

However, what's happening currently is quite different from that.

Many people, on both sides of the aisle, see the Democrats current "infrastructure" bill (which they've considered passing using this process) to be grossly inappropriate as it covers just about every conceivable type of federal program known to man - and quite a few up to now, unknown.
A fair number consider both bills to be far outside what B.R. process is normally used for - pushing the envelope far further than it has ever been pushed before. There is a reason why the parliamentarian's ruling was what the parliamentarian's ruling was...

That's the (rather huge) difference.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I really want the President to have line item veto. That will at least get rid of the most egregious pork. I also want bills to be less than 100 pages and single-topic AND presented for review at least two weeks prior to being voted on. Currently, no one who votes on a bill actually reads it. They read talking points and sometimes their staffs break it up and each read some so the member of congress is getting other people's opinions of what the bill contains rather than forming his own opinion. No wonder we get horrible bills like the Patriot act and ObamaCare.

The reason we have a representative form of government is because elected representatives are supposed to be closer to the issues and have a better understanding of what the bills and issues are all about. That doesn't happen when the bills exceed 2,000 pages and are dumped the day before they are expected to be voted on.

 

[Isaac]

I really want the President to have line item veto. That will at least get rid of the most egregious pork. I also want bills to be less than 100 pages and single-topic AND presented for review at least two weeks prior to being voted on. Currently, no one who votes on a bill actually reads it. They read talking points and sometimes their staffs break it up and each read some so the member of congress is getting other people's opinions of what the bill contains rather than forming his own opinion. No wonder we get horrible bills like the Patriot act and ObamaCare.

The reason we have a representative form of government is because elected representatives are supposed to be closer to the issues and have a better understanding of what the bills and issues are all about. That doesn't happen when the bills exceed 2,000 pages and are dumped the day before they are expected to be voted on.

Excellent points.

I would love a law that requires each voter to take a test demonstrating without a doubt that they have grasped a number of fundamentals in the bill.

The judicial branch, for example, has an extraordinarily elaborate system of checking people's knowledge, by way of appeals and different judges and attorneys fully arguing both sides (the adversarial system), which tends to bring the end result in check to some extent - a heck of a lot more of an extent than the legislative or executive branch.

This is why I actually feel that the judicial branch is probably the most functional branches of government. Sure it's still highly controversial and you can find 1000 cases you disagree with, but at least the system is carefully crafted to be chock-full of individuals who are highly schooled in the topics and pitted against each other in the ultimate matches, after which all sides can take some comfort that the "right" result may have been reached. It's also why it makes sense the fact that BOTH other branches of government are ultimately checked BY the judiciary.

Anyway, in theory it's all so wonderful ... Just rainbows and unicorns ...

I think that the more thorough the bills are, covering aspects that will end up otherwise to be legal 'disputes', the better - so the page limit is the only thing I wouldn't go for - but all the rest of it, the timing, the knowing what's in the bill, they need to start acting like adults and using common sense on that. If we could get that system working better, I'd then do away with public ballot "propositions" by about 90%. The vast majority of the public who doesn't really study the issues and by the force of human nature is almost guaranteed to be motivated by extremely short-term thought, ought not vote on anything - just elect representatives. Then of course we'd have to do away with a lot of lobbying, too so the representatives are a bit less childish themselves....I'm just dreaming now....
People will say this is all impossible, never to change. But I ask them, then how do countries like Japan achieve such a high level of success? Why is it that they cannot even mentally comprehend the crime here? That people pick up after themselves like an adult would and actually try to be a benefit to society?

I would submit it's virtually 100% sowed up in one little thing: How children are raised, and education.
The problem with the nonsense atmosphere of child raising in the USA that prevails at the moment, where children do whatever they want and parents worry that they aren't validating their children's whims often enough is: Those kids (which everyone hates in every public place except their mom), they actually grow up and become adults! It's a simple problem, really, with a simple solution - but breaking the cycle may not be easy, and probably will come only after the US experiences enough pain to realize all of the easier, softer ways didn't work.

 

[AccessBlaster]

The problem is most bills are written in such a way that the authors may be the only one who ever reads them.
Then when the bills are finally on the ballot they are purposely deceptive something like Vote "No on Yes"

 

[conception_native_0123]

The problem is most bills are written in such a way that the authors may be the only one who ever reads them.

that's probably because most bills are thousands of pages long. don't you think ab?

 

[AccessBlaster]

that's probably because most bills are thousands of pages long. don't you think ab?

Nancy Pelosi famous quote about Obama Care “we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,”

We are living in Idiocracy.