Captured Brits in Iran

[Jakboi]

So this seems to be pushing up the intensity a bit..heh?

So should Blair be stern and get them back...or cave into Iranian demands. Looks like the Iranians are now interogating and such, but I believe that they were in Iraqi waters and that Iran is just looking to gain a bargaining tool by taking them as prisoners.

I think Iran might put them on trial...oh boy shall we push up the "verge of war" thermometer.

I am sure this must piss people off in Britain...?

 

[emcf]

blair should be stern but there is a diplomatic solution to this. whether they were in iranian waters remains to be seen. the iranians will get naff all info from the marines, just name and number.

this is just internal political posturing by an increasingly domestically-unpopular iranian leadership.

 

[rainman89]

The US will be fighting in Iran soon enough im sure.....

 

[MrsGorilla]

The US will be fighting in Iran soon enough im sure.....

Ugh. That's just what we need...

 

[ColinEssex]

For christs sake, keep the bloody yanks away - they'll balls up the whole thing

Col

 

[MrsGorilla]

For christs sake, keep the bloody yanks away - they'll balls up the whole thing

Col

And another predictable response from Col.

What are you doing around here so late, anyway?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The last time the Iranians tried this, Mr. Carter tried the diplomatic solution. When Ronnie Reagan took office, there was a sudden change of heart because the Iranians knew Ronnie would waltz in and leave things more of a shambles than they already were - for Iran.

The problem with diplomatic solutions for barbarians is that they see it as weakness and try it again. Which leads to an appeasement cycle. Which leads to the point that you have to in, wipe the floor with them, and then let them try to figure out what went wrong. Whereas if you eschew appeasement right away, they have to retrench and decide just how much they are willing to pay. But that's the problem with fanatic regimes.

I still thing a glass parking lot with its own night glow would work wonders - but some folks think I'm a little extreme on that one. Ah, well....

By the way, just kidding. Wanted to see if Col or Rich were paying attention.

 

[ColinEssex]

Which leads to the point that you have to in, wipe the floor with them, and then let them try to figure out what went wrong.

Typical USA response. I suppose that the "shock and awe" theory was just misguided in Iraq? or just bad luck

Why not just nuke the ba*tards like you did in Japan?

Cindy - I now have tinternet at home so can keep an eye on you late at night

Col

 

[Brianwarnock]

Why not just nuke the ba*tards like you did in Japan?

Col

I think that is what Doc was suggesting with

I still thing a glass parking lot with its own night glow would work wonders - but some folks think I'm a little extreme on that one. Ah, well....

But did you not notice this

By the way, just kidding. Wanted to see if Col or Rich were paying attention

Brian

 

[Jakboi]

Typical USA response. I suppose that the "shock and awe" theory was just misguided in Iraq? or just bad luck

Why not just nuke the ba*tards like you did in Japan?

Cindy - I now have tinternet at home so can keep an eye on you late at night

Col

Well we did nuke Japan and now they are one of our best friends. They love American culture...western clothes...and are a much better country...

So maybe if we nuke Iran they will be are best buds some day!! Plus think of the Wal-Marts that we could build...

J/k

But Imagine if North Korea and Iran collapsed and joined the world community - the world would be a MUCH better place.

They did state regarding the female sailor that was captured that she has been treated very lady like with privacy wise...isnt that why you dont allow women to fight on front lines or close to conflict...due to the fact of the many things that could happen to a women captured?

Its always equal rights to the worse happens...

 

[ColinEssex]

But Imagine if North Korea and Iran collapsed and joined the world community - the world would be a MUCH better place.

It would be better if the USA joined the world community instead of thinking it owns the place, then it'll perhaps not be the most hated nation on the planet.

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

But did you not notice this

Yes I saw that, Doc was kidding - Bush isn't sadly, the warmongering christian dictator freak really wants a stab at Iran

Col

 

[Pauldohert]

Another case of Western do as I say not as I do -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6498611.stm

unless of course we all believe our governments are telling us the whole truth on these matters - which isn't likely.

 

[boblarson]

It would be better if the USA joined the world community instead of thinking it owns the place, then it'll perhaps not be the most hated nation on the planet.

Col

It's true we have our "idiots" who seem to either be concerned with "oil" or "my place in history" and not the good of everyone. Just remember, though, that you can't "generalize" us all as being that way, because creating that stereotype of the "people of the USA all think they own the place" is just as bad as us saying that all middle easterners are terrorists. There is a minority of them that are, and such is the same with our government.

I consider myself to be a conservative and yet I can't stand our current administration and think that Bush is an idiot. I think he's out for glory. The bad thing is, is that the liberals will win this next election because of him being an idiot, yet the results will not change all that much because I don't think we'll get anyone in there who truly is going to work for the good of all of the people. I think it will be someone who gets in there and will swing radically to the other side of things and that will hurt others just as much.

Politics suck. The whole idea of not being able to follow a course of action that would benefit all, because of the ability of a lobby to sway them over to a side which will benefit a subsection of the people more and not allow the general good to be done, is a pain.

 

[rainman89]

...Bush is an idiot. I think he's out for glory...

Politics suck.

couldnt agree more!!

 

[Brianwarnock]

Just read this today
Sorry can't elaborate have just got a call to go pick up boss from Hospital.

Brian

Dr Ali Pahlavan is the executive editor of Iran News, an independent newspaper published in Tehran.

Is quoted as saying

... the revolutionary guards are of the view that the UK and the US should be pushed and their interests need to be threatened. So this is a serious situation.

But the British are more diplomatically astute and understand Persia... if it was American servicemen or the American marines, this could have led to war.

 

[Len Boorman]

Dr Ali Pahlavan is the executive editor of Iran News, an independent newspaper published in Tehran.

Is quoted as saying

... the revolutionary guards are of the view that the UK and the US should be pushed and their interests need to be threatened. So this is a serious situation.

But the British are more diplomatically astute and understand Persia... if it was American servicemen or the American marines, this could have led to war.

Then we should push back a bit harder than they push so that they understand that we will not tolerate illegal banditry and piracy by a bunch of politically motivated ....... Hmmm difficulty in getting the right word here. Suggestions welcome

L

 

[Jakboi]

Just read this today
Sorry can't elaborate have just got a call to go pick up boss from Hospital.

Brian

Dr Ali Pahlavan is the executive editor of Iran News, an independent newspaper published in Tehran.

Is quoted as saying

... the revolutionary guards are of the view that the UK and the US should be pushed and their interests need to be threatened. So this is a serious situation.

But the British are more diplomatically astute and understand Persia... if it was American servicemen or the American marines, this could have led to war.

I totally agree. A military fox analyst last nite said he wishes for diplomatic resolution but would have liked to have seen the Brits not go so easily...more or less keep them back with some gunfire.

Which may be kinda true...I mean its not like the Iranians just snook up on them out of nowhere...to be captured the Iranians must have had their guns drawn the whole time...which I am suprised the Brits didnt do the same...

Now the Iranians have the upperhand. Who knows maybe they will stick 1 brit per Nuke Reactor to prevent bombing...

 

[boblarson]

Then we should push back a bit harder than they push ... Hmmm difficulty in getting the right word here. Suggestions welcome
L

wouldn't that be the word "war?" Not a good prospect. I don't think there are many sanctions available that will cause them to "give in." And, I don't think war is a good option either. What needs to happen is one of two things -

1. Someone needs to come up with a viable, cheap alternative substitute for oil (not just for transportation but for manufacturing of plastics, etc.) as that is one of the main causes of the desire by Western powers to be able to control and possess it.

2. ...number two left out due to religious overtones (okay, not overtones, blatantly stated).

 

[Brianwarnock]

I totally agree. A military fox analyst last nite said he wishes for diplomatic resolution but would have liked to have seen the Brits not go so easily...more or less keep them back with some gunfire.

Which may be kinda true...I mean its not like the Iranians just snook up on them out of nowhere...to be captured the Iranians must have had their guns drawn the whole time...which I am suprised the Brits didnt do the same...

Now the Iranians have the upperhand. Who knows maybe they will stick 1 brit per Nuke Reactor to prevent bombing...

Admiral Sir Alan West was First Sea Lord in 2004 comments thus...

all they had were small arms, they don't have heavy weapons. So of course to actually start fighting patrol boats would not be a clever thing.

But in reply to a further question

What are the rules of engagement in this type of situation?

The rules are very much de-escalatory, because we don't want wars starting. The reason we are there is to be a force for good, to make the whole area safe, to look after the Iraqi big oil platforms and also to stop smuggling and terrorism there.

So we try to downplay things. Rather then roaring into action and sinking everything in sight we try to step back and that, of course, is why our chaps were effectively able to be captured and taken away.

If we find this is going to be a standard practice we need to think very carefully about what rules of engagement we want and how we operate. One can't allow as a standard practice nations to capture a nation's servicemen. That is clearly wrong.

I wonder what the American approach would have been, plus weren't there civilians about, or does that not worry the Americans.

Brian