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I was unable to get the forms to work properly. The circular join between track type and VST type I suspected were the problem. So I tried to adopt your recommendations. (I left some details off because I need to get the core functioning first. I've created 2 table "Preset Type" and "Track...

I have started from scratch again and taken your earlier advice. I have pared the tables down to the essential ones and left off issues like composer and performer. (You were right about the composer. I had the relationship to the wrong table.) Attached is an Excel File mockup.

I see the mistake in tblSong. I do not understand the TypeID FK issue in the tblPReset. The value for this field comes from the tblType list of values. Please explain further why my assumption is incorrect. (I'm not suggesting I am correct.) Regarding Effect number, the order in which the...

1. Table Removed 2. Table Structure corrected 3. Instead of having subforms 3 levels deep I was planning on a separate subform for effects. (See frmSong layout. I would sync the subforms manually using the current track selected ID.) 4. Yes, these combo boxes are just filters. 5. Correct. They...

Thank you for your input. I am very grateful. With confidence in my table structures, I can work on my forms and not be worried that the table structure is the problem when something doesn't work as expected.

I tried to make some changes. Too many fields that just relate to a song would be left blank in the tracks table where the song was just another track. There doesn't need to be a media table. The 4 files that get linked are always the same 4 files. They are the saved output of the song project...

The forum will not allow me to post an excel file or a link to an outside file. I can send it to your email if you like. Mine is troutusa@duck.com.

I'm still digesting this information, but at some point, the songs will have a parent Album. Will Self-referencing allow a song to appear on more than one album?

I understand that it is the same table added twice. I don't understand what the FK would be in the First instance of the table. Would it be Null for all other Track records?

I am not sure how the self-referential method would work here. In what I've read, you have to create a second instance of the same table and link the FK in the primary table to the PK in the duplicate table. What would be the FK in the Primary Table?

The answer to your first question is yes. For the second question, the VST may be used multiple times on one track. For each instance, the settings would be saved as a preset with an appropriate PresetType assigned to each preset.

Here is my current form of documentation. It may shed some light on how I use the information and how it is related. Each column is a track, except for column 1 which represents the combined output of all the other tracks. (FYI, there are approximately 15 tracks for this song. 4 more pages of...

By the way, what modeling software are you suing to create the above diagram?

Thank you so much for your help. I need to get up to speed on self-referential relationships before I understand it fully.

That looks right, but it doesn't show that there is also an Instrument Preset from tblPreset in the tblTrack. (Presets can be Instruments, effects, or Sound clips. An effect Preset is never an instrument Preset, but the same VST can sometimes be either an instrument or an effect.

A song is comprised of tracks, like guitar, vocals, drums, etc. Mix all the tracks together and you get the song. Effects can be applied to individual tracks, or the entire song. The entire song is like a Master Track that is a mixdown of all the instrument tracks. It is a bit confusing if you...

Presets and Effects are the same thing. Effects are a subset of Preset Types. The problem is a Track has one Instrument Preset, but 0 to many Effect Presets. This is where I am running into trouble and really need help. There are 2 separate relationships with a track record and the Preset table...

Effects and Instruments are always Presets. I could consider the song effect relationship a Master track relationship, then I would only need Tracks related to Effects. (Tracks are numbered, so I could make the song track number Zero for all songs. That way I can pull out song effects in any...

I compose songs. Think of it like a band. There is a guitar, drums, bass, violin that VST instruments each with their own track. The guitar has a distortion pedal. The entire band has a reverb pedal. The pedals are VST effects. Since the instruments and effects are all created synthetically each...