On Another Grammar Thread (1 Viewer)

Vassago · Jan 15, 2014

Forum members who have been here a while will understand the subject.

Anyway, I was reading a review on a product I considered purchasing from England and having it sent here. I noticed the reviewer consistently used the words "no one" as one word, "noone." This seemed curious to me as I've always considered them separate. Researching online, it appears that "no-one" is common overseas, but it still seemed that "noone" was not common or acceptable.

I then began pondering how this had become such a widespread question in vocabulary. I started comparing similar words and came across something even more curious. I can see how people can make the "mistake:"

Something : Nothing
Someone : No...one?

Is this how the words "something" and "nothing" came into existence? Is this how "someone" came into existence? Is "noone" destined to be an actual English word? Are these words only acceptable when a noun does not follow them?

Any insights/thoughts/critiques?

namliam · Jan 16, 2014

I think it is because of the possible confusion in pronouncing noone, as per Noon for example

Galaxiom · Jan 16, 2014

I avoid it by using "nobody" instead.

scott-atkinson · Jan 16, 2014

I think they simply had a sticky space bar and "No one" became "Noone"

Libre · Jan 16, 2014

To me, noone sounds like new knee when I read it.
Likewise, I don't write nowhere (looks like now here); coworker (looks like cow orker - whatever orking a cow implies and the mental image is not pleasing); wherever (missing an e in the middle); and homowner or homeowner (self explanatory).

On the other hand, the dictionary should really add the word "fuggedabowdid". If you don't speak Brooklynese and need a translation, head over to Flatbush Avenue and you'll learn the local lingo fast enough.

GSSDevelopment · Jan 16, 2014

Vassago said:
Something : Nothing
Someone : No...one?

I think the progression would be something like this...

Thing: Anything - Something - Nothing
Body: Anybody - Somebody - Nobody
One: Anyone - Someone - No one

I believe the explanation would simply be that it's a non-standard spelling convention, possibly to avoid mispronunciation in written contexts, since the only other word I can think of that has consecutive o's and isn't pronounced like "moon" is zoolog(y|ist|ical|...), and that's directly from Latin.

Libre said:
and homowner or homeowner (self explanatory).

I couldn't stop laughing at homowner, and have NEVER seen anybody write it that way.

Vassago · Jan 16, 2014

GSSDevelopment said:
I think the progression would be something like this...

Thing: Anything - Something - Nothing
Body: Anybody - Somebody - Nobody
One: Anyone - Someone - No one

I believe the explanation would simply be that it's a non-standard spelling convention, possibly to avoid mispronunciation in written contexts, since the only other word I can think of that has consecutive o's and isn't pronounced like "moon" is zoolog(y|ist|ical|...), and that's directly from Latin.

I couldn't stop laughing at homowner, and have NEVER seen anybody write it that way.

That's an interesting point, but English is FULL of variations in pronunctiation. "Oo" is especially full of many different pronunctiation variations.

flood, blood
book, look, foot
noon, moot, food
floor, door

I think zoology is a special circumstance because it's a diphthong. Other words do this as well:

cooperative

What's one more?

GSSDevelopment · Jan 16, 2014

Vassago said:
flood, blood
book, look, foot
noon, moot, food
floor, door

Sorry, should have clarified that I meant "oo" words where the "oo" was multisyllabic.

Vassago said:
cooperative

Fair example, but I think prefixes are special exceptions for pronunciation, particularly for those prefixes that end in a vowel and can come before a root word which starts with a vowel.

e.g.
Coaxial
Coeducational
Coincide
Coordinate (many of these are hyphenated, like co-owner)
Counion

Preamble
Preexist
Preinstall
Preoccupy
Preulcerous (had to dig for that one)

Vassago · Jan 16, 2014

GSSDevelopment said:
Sorry, should have clarified that I meant "oo" words where the "oo" was multisyllabic.

Fair example, but I think prefixes are special exceptions for pronunciation, particularly for those prefixes that end in a vowel and can come before a root word which starts with a vowel.

e.g.
Coaxial
Coeducational
Coincide
Coordinate (many of these are hyphenated, like co-owner)
Counion

Preamble
Preexist
Preinstall
Preoccupy
Preulcerous (had to dig for that one)

Then wouldn't the same apply to zoology? "-ology" is considered a suffix, is it not?

Can we find any examples that have "oo" without as a diphthong without the use of a prefix or suffix?

GSSDevelopment · Jan 16, 2014

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

Yes

-logy / -ology is a suffix, and I'm wondering if the root for it is "zoo" or "zo"

Libre · Jan 16, 2014

I took zoology in college and the pronounciation is (at least here in the states) zo-ology. The roots are zoo (animals) and ology (study of).
First syllable rhymes with blow, not with blue.
You would need 3 o's in a row (usually not allowed) to get zoo-ology.

edit:
here are the roots according to wiki:
Ancient Greek ζῷον, zōon, i.e. "animal" and λόγος, logos, i.e. "knowledge, study"

Fifty2One · Jan 20, 2014

English is a mutt language that is very difficult to learn. I have noticed that those of us that have it as a second language seem to have a better grasp on grammar than a lot of people who have it as their only tongue.

On Another Grammar Thread (1 Viewer)

Vassago

Former Staff Turned AWF Retiree

namliam

The Mailman - AWF VIP

Galaxiom

Super Moderator

scott-atkinson

I'm with the Witch.......

Libre

been around a little

GSSDevelopment

PHP Guru

Vassago

Former Staff Turned AWF Retiree

GSSDevelopment

PHP Guru

Vassago

Former Staff Turned AWF Retiree

GSSDevelopment

PHP Guru

Libre

been around a little

Fifty2One

Legend in my own mind

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread