Incredibly Smart or Incredibly Stupid? (1 Viewer)

ajetrumpet

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Do you think the US government is 1 or 2?


if you are part of the group that thinks the government is adopting policies that will kill capitalism, is the gov. smart of stupid? are they making a terrible mistake and not know what they're doing, or are they right on schedule for their agenda?

are we looking at >25% employment in the public sector in the future? hmmm.... not that it's bad, but it doesn't really promote freedom of people :confused:
 

boblarson

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Government isn't stupid. It is the people that make up government that are stupid. Well, not exactly - it is that there are just so many interests at stake that it is hard to get any sufficient number to agree on a course of action that is optimal. So, what happens is, just like in the movie "Legally Blonde 2," where compromise kills the most optimal course for one that the majority can live with.

Now, that being said - what I think is optimal is probably not what you think is optimal, etc.
 

dkinley

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... where compromise kills the most optimal course for one that the majority can live with.

Now, that being said - what I think is optimal is probably not what you think is optimal, etc.

Well said. Hence there is not a "one size fits all" thus protect the individual (and only the individual) and codefy laws so that one individual or group cannot infringe on another.

This is why we were founded on a republic and not a democracy because a democracy creates a one-gang rule.

In my opinion our government is moving to incredibly stupid. Moreover, it is a reflection that our populace is incredibly stupid (voting it in) and think they can pretend reality doesn't exist.

-dK
 

Steve R.

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if you are part of the group that thinks the government is adopting policies that will kill capitalism, is the gov. smart of stupid? are they making a terrible mistake and not know what they're doing, or are they right on schedule for their agenda?

Complicated question. First the government suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Though we speak of the government as if it is one entity, in reality each branch of government pursues its "own" objectives. Not only that - but many of our laws are a form of "compromise" that make things worse. The tax code for example, in the quest to make the tax system "fair" we have ended up with an extremely complicated system that no one can understand or can even comply with.

AJ, you ask if "the government is adopting policies that will kill capitalism". My take is that there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what capitalism is by everyone in the US. Then going a step further, lobbyists are essentially buying favorable legislation that is "killing" the free market system. To phrase this differently, we have corporations lobbying our politicians to pass laws that diminish the free-market system.

Also there are social trends that seem to be crippling the free market system. First, it seems that the concept of the rule-of-law has morphed into a rule-of-social-justice, which holds that the rule-of-law doesn't apply to me because I belong to some sort of "protected" group. Second, we have developed an entitlement culture.

To answer the question, the government is not stupid but it has been paralyzed into inaction by all these competing forces. Its unfortunate that our political and corporate leaders have lost touch with the ethics of promoting the social good.
 

Fifty2One

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I would suggest the American Administration is quite cleaver - they are not out of work, they are not pennyless, they are not worried about the next payment to keep a roof over their heads, actually they seem to be living quite comfortably... and if they 'lose' their current jobs, they still have employment as some sort of opposition party member...

...I wonder if anyone in the government has ever tasted Mac'n'cheese (or a tin of beans on stale toast for those in the UK)...

Do you think the US government is 1 or 2?


if you are part of the group that thinks the government is adopting policies that will kill capitalism, is the gov. smart of stupid? are they making a terrible mistake and not know what they're doing, or are they right on schedule for their agenda?

are we looking at >25% employment in the public sector in the future? hmmm.... not that it's bad, but it doesn't really promote freedom of people :confused:
 

boblarson

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...I wonder if anyone in the government has ever tasted Mac'n'cheese (or a tin of beans on stale toast for those in the UK)...
If you have ever tasted my Mac and Cheese (home made with high quality Tillamook Aged Extra Sharp Cheaddar) you would not be comparing it to a tin of beans on stale toast. :D :D :cool:
 

Fifty2One

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Sounds great Bob, when is supper?

Actually I was referring to the no-name version of the Kraft variety with power skim milk... beats starving but not by much...

If you have ever tasted my Mac and Cheese (home made with high quality Tillamook Aged Extra Sharp Cheaddar) you would not be comparing it to a tin of beans on stale toast. :D :D :cool:
 

Kryst51

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If you have ever tasted my Mac and Cheese (home made with high quality Tillamook Aged Extra Sharp Cheaddar) you would not be comparing it to a tin of beans on stale toast. :D :D :cool:

I also lay claim to excellent mac and cheese (made with Cracker Barrel cheese). I put kielbasa in mine. :p In no way is it healthy, but OH is it good.
 

boblarson

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Sounds great Bob, when is supper?
Not for a while. I can't buy that cheese as often as I'd like. It is expensive compared to other varieties. But when I do get the opportunity, it is a treat. My wife and daughter love it as well. My two boys - well, they still are at that age where they put ketchup on everything to mask the taste and with this being EXTRA SHARP, it has quite the taste they don't appreciate yet.

Actually I was referring to the no-name version of the Kraft variety with power skim milk... beats starving but not by much...

Of that I CAN agree.
 

ajetrumpet

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I SAW A BUMPER STICKER today that really caught my eye. I'm not political obviously, but if I were i would probably be a republican.

but regardless, the sticker read: "vote democratic, it's easier than getting a job."

that really made my day stress free....to know that there are really people out there that will let you live for free. whew!
 

Thales750

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I SAW A BUMPER STICKER today that really caught my eye. I'm not political obviously, but if I were i would probably be a republican.

but regardless, the sticker read: "vote democratic, it's easier than getting a job."

that really made my day stress free....to know that there are really people out there that will let you live for free. whew!

Yes, The republicans have the best propaganda machine in the history of the world.

They make people believe the most fascinating things.

Gotta love em.
 

Pauldohert

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I SAW A BUMPER STICKER today that really caught my eye. I'm not political obviously, but if I were i would probably be a republican.

but regardless, the sticker read: "vote democratic, it's easier than getting a job."

that really made my day stress free....to know that there are really people out there that will let you live for free. whew!

With unemployment at 10% (or whatever) its is easier than getting a job yes.

To vote with no job, for no welfare - that would be stupid!" - and also I would add cruel if you were one of the lucky ones to be working.

Its a tricky balance - not helped by spongers or right wingers.
 

Adam Caramon

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Personally I'd say the US government is lagging behind the rest of the western world. They are moving (more like crawling) in the right direction, but it will take a long time.

The Republican party is against this move, as they feel the US is the great country in the world, and F everyone else. If another country has a brilliant system and Americans says "Look at such and such country, that's a great idea", the Republican party labels them as turncoats or terrorists.

Thales750 said:
Yes, The republicans have the best propaganda machine in the history of the world.

The sad part is that they do not need to have a good propaganda machine (though it is obvious that they do). All they do is target people's fears, and then constantly exploit them.

You could have the greatest politician in the world, who is highly skilled, able to comprehend complex situations, etc, but if he/she is of certain religions, he/she will never get elected.

Hell, are there any other modern countries out there that have never had a female leader? We're behind on that mark too.

As I said, eventually the US will catch up to the rest of the world, but it requires education, which is something that we do not support and make out of reach of most average Americans.
 

Steve R.

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the sticker read: "vote democratic, it's easier than getting a job."
Regretfully this is not Republican propaganda. Wish it were.

In viewing many of the reader comments in the New York Times concerning the financial crises, unemployment, and the housing bubble; I have been amazed at the sense of entitlement people feel that the government provide them with "free" money. In fact, despite our growing deficit, the Times and some of the columnists continue to call for continued spending so that everyone can have a piece of the pie irrespective of the fact that it has already been consumed.
 

Kryst51

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Regretfully this is not Republican propaganda. Wish it were.

In viewing many of the reader comments in the New York Times concerning the financial crises, unemployment, and the housing bubble; I have been amazed at the sense of entitlement people feel that the government provide them with "free" money. In fact, despite our growing deficit, the Times and some of the columnists continue to call for continued spending so that everyone can have a piece of the pie irrespective of the fact that it has already been consumed.

Yeah, I don't like the idea of entitlement that everyone is under. Well probably not everyone, but ALOT of people. I can just see our economy getting worse as we don't learn from previous mistakes and continue to expect bale outs and stimulus package checks, and continue buying on credit (as individuals).... It seems like a vicious (sp?) cycle.
 

Adam Caramon

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Yeah, I don't like the idea of entitlement that everyone is under. Well probably not everyone, but ALOT of people.

This is often used as a Republican talking point, but they never mention specifics. What exactly are you referring to when you say entitlements? Do you mean what you mentioned before (bail outs and stimulus packages)?

Most of the time when people use that word they mean welfare, unemployment benefits, and medicaid.
 

Kryst51

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This is often used as a Republican talking point, but they never mention specifics. What exactly are you referring to when you say entitlements? Do you mean what you mentioned before (bail outs and stimulus packages)?

Most of the time when people use that word they mean welfare, unemployment benefits, and medicaid.

I wasn't being specific. I was just commenting on Steve R and agreeing. It just seems like a pervavsive attitude in the US. That's all. You here it all the time. We want government funded healthcare, stimulus packages, baleouts, help paying on houses we never should have bought because we couldn't afford them, tax breaks etc because we have overspent and/or spent to much on credit, when what we really needed to do was learn to budget and cut back and/or make sacrifices to live within our means. I am guilty of this as well, but have the past 4 years been making changes, so I am not saying that I am not in the wrong here too. I was very happy to spend my stimulus check, I wasn't going to refuse it. :D I just don't know if it was the best idea.
 

Adam Caramon

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You here it all the time. We want government funded healthcare, stimulus packages, baleouts, help paying on houses we never should have bought because we couldn't afford them, tax breaks etc because we have overspent and/or spent to much on credit, when what we really needed to do was learn to budget and cut back and/or make sacrifices to live within our means.

Maybe it is different where I am, but no one I talked to wanted a stimulus package or a bailout. The financial sector bail out was very much despised. No one wanted help paying on their house that they bought that they couldn't afford, they simply wanted the terms that they originally were told they could have.

House prices hadn't fallen so badly like they just did for 70 years or so. 5 years ago the "responsible" thing to do was to buy a house rather than rent, because renting was throwing your money away. Buying a home was an investment. Sure you were tied to the property then, but over time your house gained in value.

That all changed with the housing crisis, where people who did what was the responsible thing to do suddenly found all of their equity gone, and possibly owing more than their house was now worth.

I agree with you that people need to take personal responsibility for their own finances and live within their means, and I think for the most part people do. There are some irresponsible people (and I personally know several of them :p), but I think overall people are generally responsible.
 

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