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Old 09-27-2019, 09:35 AM   #1
ColinEssex
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Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

I've been hearing on the BBC news about Mr Trump asking The Ukraine to "investigate" Mr Biden ahead of next years presidential elections.

So, why? What has Mr Biden done that needs investigation?
Why get a foreign government to do it? Mr Trump hates foreigners.

What is he trying to achieve? After all, the candidate with the lowest populace vote will win and we all know that will be Mr Trump.

Why can't the CIA or FBI investigate Mr Biden? They know everything about everyone anyway.

Most odd.

Col

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Old 09-28-2019, 06:33 AM   #2
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

In this case, the investigation would be best handled (if performed at all) in the Ukraine because it relates to actions performed by Mr. Biden's son when he was involved in some kind of project that occurred in the Ukraine, i.e. it occurred on Ukrainian soil. The details are a bit fuzzy over here, too, Col, so I can't give you too much more than to say that it made sense to have the foreign government perform an investigation for some that might have occurred within their jurisdiction.

The CIA doesn't know everything and these days, there is a taint of partisanship in the operations of the intelligence community. Taint? On the scale of such things, maybe even a smear or an outright blemish.

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After all, the candidate with the lowest populace vote will win
Maybe, but the USA isn't a democracy. It's a representational republic. Our presidential election system (called the Electoral College) was designed to prevent the big cities from always winning at the expense of rural areas that had legit differences in needs. So the heavily populated areas DO get more power for many votes, but there is a balancing factor that adds extra weight to the states with less population.

Thumbnail explanation: The founding fathers of the USA recognized that a pure democracy would be able to always defeat proposals to benefit less populated areas, siphoning all federal money to high-population areas. We have a phrase "the tyranny of democracy" to represent the idea that pure democracies have the power to do really nasty things to demographic minorities regardless of which attribute is considered - race, religion, gender, occupation - you pick it, we can use voting power to oppress it. So our system does not depend on raw numbers.
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Old 09-28-2019, 07:53 AM   #3
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

Actually it starts with Hunter's dealings with China, the Democrat's only see Russia Russia Russia as a threat. The Dems have a very cozy relationship with China, all the major news outlets provide the cover needed to exchange vast amounts of money while saying nothing about their human rights atrocities.

The building of artificial islands in the south china seas seem to be a non issue along with Hong Kong, and other disputes.

They are okay with these incursions because it lines their children's pockets.

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Old 09-28-2019, 12:59 PM   #4
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

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Originally Posted by AccessBlaster View Post
Actually it starts with Hunter's dealings with China, the Democrat's only see Russia Russia Russia as a threat. The Dems have a very cozy relationship with China, all the major news outlets provide the cover needed to exchange vast amounts of money while saying nothing about their human rights atrocities.

The building of artificial islands in the south china seas seem to be a non issue along with Hong Kong, and other disputes.

They are okay with these incursions because it lines their children's pockets.
I'm sorry, I have no idea what any of that means. What is Hunter?

Building islands? Why?
I'm sorry, but I must be thick or something, or misreading it somehow. It doesn't matter to me so no need to explain, if it gets important, it'll be on the BBC news.

Actually, I'm more worried why one of my fuchsia plants seems unwell. As I live alone now, I am quite happy in my garden not caring a toss about anything else.

Col
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Old 09-28-2019, 02:57 PM   #5
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

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Originally Posted by ColinEssex View Post
…What has Mr Biden done that needs investigation?
You ask a question, I can't help that you don't follow politics beyond the monarchy.

Do try and keep up old boy.
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Old 09-28-2019, 05:52 PM   #6
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

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What is Hunter?
In this case, "WHO" - Hunter Biden is Joe Biden's son, the person who was in the Ukraine and who is the actual focus of the controversy. Except that there is the issue that Joe might have assisted his son or consulted with him during the incident that led to Mr. Trump's comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanity Fair
In a move sure to trigger 2016 P.T.S.D., The New York Times has published a nearly 3,000-word tale of intrigue involving the Biden family’s various entanglements in Ukraine. In short, the story is this: in the final year of the Obama presidency, Vice President Joe Biden “threatened to withhold $1 billion in United States loan guarantees if Ukraine’s leaders did not dismiss the country’s top prosecutor”—Viktor Shokin—“who had been accused of turning a blind eye to corruption in his own office and among the political elite.” The pressure campaign also just so happened to benefit Biden’s younger son, Hunter, who was then getting paid as much as $50,000 to sit on the board of Burisma Holdings, a Ukrainian energy company that was in Shokin’s sights. The question the Times raises, but does not answer, is: were Joe’s and Hunter’s overlapping interests in Ukraine coincidental, or corrupt?

The Bidens say Joe acted “without any regard” for the impact on his son, and that Hunter never discussed private business with his father. But of course, that seems unlikely to put this story to rest. The current Ukrainian prosecutor general recently decided to reopen the investigation into Burisma, which could unearth new details about Hunter’s work. No surprise, the story is also being heavily promoted by Donald Trump and his allies, including lawyer Rudy Giuliani. According to the Times, Giuliani has met repeatedly with both the ousted Ukrainian prosecutor and the new prosecutor, and has discussed his findings with Trump—who then suggested he would like Attorney General William Barr to look into the matter. (Perhaps that is why Barr was at a loss for words on Wednesday, when Senator Kamala Harris asked whether “the president or anyone at the White House ever asked or suggested that you open an investigation of anyone.”)
Here is a another link you might be able to follow. (The Vanity Fair article is protected by some software to limit use unless you subscribe.)

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2019...ts-government/

These two articles might put something in perspective for you, Col.
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Old 09-28-2019, 06:02 PM   #7
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

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Building islands? Why?
The Democratic Party of the USA is busy not caring about the "land grab" made by the mainland Chinese government (PRC). They built some kind of artificial island in the South China Sea and put an airport on it, but then used the artificial island to extend their national boundaries (i.e. the 24-mile oceanic limit) by however far into the sea those islands were constructed. I would call it a land grab, but in this case it is an ocean grab.

Good luck with the fuchsia plants.

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Old 09-29-2019, 12:05 AM   #8
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

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You ask a question, I can't help that you don't follow politics beyond the monarchy.

Do try and keep up old boy.
My apologies for not being familiar with the USA politics.

As I said, I care little about whether the USA is building a wall or artificial islands. To be honest I don't even know what party Mr Trump stands for.
Reason? We have a government here in turmoil, everyone is cheesed off with it.

So, as a result, I play my bass guitars and tend my garden. I get more joy watching my plants grow and reward me with beautiful flowers, I am happy not seeing or talking to anyone, as I say I now live alone so it's easy to potter about making lovely plants.

Politics is a joke whether it's USA, U.K., China, Iran or wherever, I couldn't care less these days. I don't need the money, have no debts so I sit in my garden watching the fishes in the pond and working out plans of how to improve my little haven.

Col
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Old 09-29-2019, 07:08 AM   #9
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

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Originally Posted by ColinEssex View Post
My apologies for not being familiar with the USA politics.

As I said, I care little about whether the USA is building a wall or artificial islands.
I doubt that, you are very familiar with all things USA to the point of obsession.

You know more about our music, movies, and our gun culture then most native born Americans.

As we speak you are scanning the headlines for the next American tragedy.
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Old 09-29-2019, 08:31 AM   #10
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

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I doubt that, you are very familiar with all things USA to the point of obsession.

You know more about our music, movies, and our gun culture then most native born Americans.

As we speak you are scanning the headlines for the next American tragedy.
Ha ha - yes I admit it, I do like a lot of American music, mostly from the 60's. There is no doubt America has a lot going for it.

Films? Yes again, guilty. But again, mostly from 60's/70's not modern CGI rubbish.

Gun culture? Hmmm, I am intrigued by the hundreds of so called serial killings, I just can't understand what drives someone to do that. Yet nothing gets done about it.

But generally, I think America is ok. Just lose the dopey president and you could be even better.

Col
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:22 PM   #11
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

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Originally Posted by ColinEssex
Just lose the dopey president and you could be even better.
True, but needs to be put in context. If we had elected the bitchy president, things could have been worse for some of us. Col, our biggest nightmare is that election in which NONE of the candidates have any redeeming features. The Trump/Clinton election came close to that (low) standard. Hillary Clinton was totally unpalatable because of the way she abandoned people in Benghazi and with that private mail server scandal that broke at least three federal laws at once, not to mention side-stepping a couple of more laws. Trump was a known agitator (and you have to admit, he has EVERYONE agitated in some way or another). For me, it became a case of picking the lesser evil (and then holding my nose with one hand while flipping the voting levers with the other).

You think we could be better with a different president. You are not wrong, but you omit the (sad) fact that it could also be worse.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:28 PM   #12
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

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What has Mr Biden done that needs investigation?
What is most odd is that the Democrats endlessly investigate Trump. Yet when it comes to examining Biden or Clinton (Hillary), investigations are deemed to be unnecessary and a waste of time. This is appalling biased partisanship at its worst. So, if Trump deserves investigation, so do Biden and Clinton (Hillary).
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:18 PM   #13
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

There was a woman interviewed on the street about Brexit and the current UK government situation. She said, "oh Christ, I've lost the will to live". I think that sums it up for the nation.
Doc is right though, we (USA and UK) may be fed up to the back teeth with our respective leaders, but it could be worse. . . . . . could it? I'm not sure.

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Old 10-21-2019, 05:06 AM   #14
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Re: Confused: Trump/Biden/Ukraine

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but it could be worse. . . . . . could it? I'm not sure.
Neither am I - and I really don't want to find out. But the chance exists that this coming year, we WILL find out.

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