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Old 10-12-2019, 04:41 AM   #496
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

I forgot another question

I seem to remember reading or seeing somewhere that ocean ice or icebergs are not salt all the way through because in the freezing process the salt migrates towards the surface.

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Old 10-12-2019, 06:19 AM   #497
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

Does anyone have an opinion why pro man made climate change is very much the left media and anti man made climate change is very much the conservative media.

I find the left have very inconsistent views. For example in Australia both the left media and left political parties all say unless Australia moves to renewable energy the Great Barrier Reef will come to an end. Given Australia is only 1.3% of man made CO2 that suggests that climate change is not global.
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Old 10-13-2019, 03:42 AM   #498
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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CO2 levels might well be an effect rather than a cause
Of course releasing 100 MILLION tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere EVERY DAY wouldn't have anything to do with increasing carbon dioxide levels.

And you actually expect to be taken as a someone who has a clue on atmospheric science.

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Old 10-13-2019, 03:53 AM   #499
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Of course releasing 100 MILLION tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere EVERY DAY wouldn't have anything to do with increasing carbon dioxide levels.

And you actually expect to be taken as a someone who has a clue on atmospheric science.
The The_Doc_Man is not the first and won't be the last person to raise CO2 levels as an effect rather than a cause.

So far all you do, if I was to summarise all your posts, is just say that just proves you don't understand climate change science or similar ..

Of course the sun couldn't possibly have an effect on temperature and climate conditions on earth Just ignore the sun.
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:00 AM   #500
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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And you actually expect to be taken as a someone who has a clue on atmospheric science.
No, but I expect to be taken as a person whose knowledge of scientific experimentation and statistical correlation is enough to spot issues. PhD degrees awarded for successful experimentation tend to prove that I knew enough to convince five other PhD-level professors that I knew how science worked. Let's just say that you chose to focus on volume of emissions. I am focusing on methodology. We disagree on cause and effect.

Oddly enough, we do not disagree on the need to clean up all that emission. We just have different motives. If we can clean up emissions enough to reduce pollution-caused diseases and it happens to have beneficial effect on climate as well, I won't look that gift horse in the mouth. But you are SO freakin' adamant and can't get past that veneer of "it is my way or the highway." Who died and made you God? Oh, wait... you and I agree on something else, too, regarding deities. So scratch that last question.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:02 AM   #501
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

It's all moot because scientist like Greta, the squad and Bill Nye the scientist guy say we only 12 years to live. Obviously it will take a bit more arm twisting to secure ONE third of the worlds economy to even scratch the surface.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:32 AM   #502
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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I Got A Double Mastectomy After A Genetic Test. Then I Learned The Results Were Wrong.
Why is science continually making mistakes? Is this a new phenomenon or is this the new norm? My guess is science is always evolving, the issue is at what cost. I don't know, ask the women who lost her breasts.

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Old 10-13-2019, 10:17 AM   #503
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Why is science continually making mistakes?
That's an interesting observation and I read something recently which made my ears prick up! I have no idea of the truth of it, or though I suspect there's a grain of truth in it...

I understand that for some types of university degree you have to write a paper, a dissertation? And this is is peer reviewed. You can't advance in your subject until you've have one accepted? (Not Sure) There's a lot of pressure on the student to come up with this document. Some students have been known to falsify information, and/or make things up! I believe the estimate is that at up to 20% of these documents contain errors of varying degrees.

There has also been a tendency in some universities to fabricate a system based on a much more lenient set of criteria. You can come out of university with a degree, however the Foundation of it, the process you go through to get it, is much easier than the normal process. Whether it's still classed as a degree is probably debatable. Put it another way, if you've spent 8 years struggling to get a degree and someone else comes along and puts in 4 years and comes out with a degree, based on less strict and demanding criteria then you might be a bit pissed off!
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:54 AM   #504
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Vassago, something you mentioned recently in this thread has been an issue of mine for years. Galaxiom doesn't like me because I'm a skeptic on whether Climate Change is anthropogenic. However, I'm with you on reducing a lot of industrial emissions for a totally different reason.

The math on climate change has never impressed me. The biochemical pathways that lead from a given pollutant to a definite disease have always depressed me. I want to clean up the environment because of disease. IF it happens that it changes global warming, then GREAT! Two birds with one stone, can't fault that efficiency.

You can find literally hundreds of medical research papers that show every step in the biochemical process where by a certain pollutant causes emphysema or a particular pollutant triggers asthma or some airborne particulate leads to black lung disease... you get the message, I'm sure.

My position in one paragraph:
Does Earth's climate change? Yes - it does (and it has changed over millennia). Is that change or the rate of that change anthropogenic? I have doubts on grounds of methodology and robustness of the correlations. Do industrial pollutants cause diseases? Yes, without doubt. Should we get rid of pollutants? Yes, without doubt. Will pollution cleanup help the issues of climate change? Damned if I know. Let's try it and find out.
Thank you! That's always been a sticking point for me for all of the same reasons. I don't pretend to know enough about the science behind our involvement or not, but I do know we pollute the hell out of the planet and we have been killing enough wildlife and people with that pollution over the years. If we don't change something, it won't matter that the climate is changing before long. Maybe it won't be in our generation or the generation of our kids or grandkids, but there will come a time that the Earth says it's had enough. There is no doubt in my mind of that.
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:59 AM   #505
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Who died and made you God? Oh, wait... you and I agree on something else, too, regarding deities. So scratch that last question.
This got me.

I consider myself more in the middle. I don't care about the politics of things in regards to this, I just care about creating a safe environment for my family (when I finally have one) and to not have to worry about their future.
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:01 AM   #506
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Why is science continually making mistakes? Is this a new phenomenon or is this the new norm? My guess is science is always evolving, the issue is at what cost. I don't know, ask the women who lost her breasts.
Science is based on theories rather than faith. The "facts" we know today can change as new information becomes available. I think this is something that is often lost on the more conservative crowd. They tend to not change their views on things at the rate of others, even when presented with new information.
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:39 AM   #507
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Science is based on theories rather than faith. The "facts" we know today can change as new information becomes available. I think this is something that is often lost on the more conservative crowd. They tend to not change their views on things at the rate of others, even when presented with new information.
Your response is somewhat prejudiced and simplistic. Well, conservatives may simply want more facts before changing their ossified minds.

There is nothing wrong with taking one's time to respond to the implications of new facts. Conversely, one can state that immediately reacting to new facts can lead to inappropriate conclusions. For example, there is evidently a new study stating that eating red meat, is really not that bad for you. So should you rush out and immediately start gorging on red meat? I doubt it, because every couple of years there is new study that refutes the older studies. So who is correct?

What is "lost" (actually re-characterized) by the supposedly liberal left is that supposed scientific "facts" need to be interpreted within the political narrative advocated by the political left. I recently posted the following quote: "In Seattle, the citys public schools have decided that everything, even mathematics, has to be seen through the lens of oppression and racism.". The left may pretend that global warming is based on scientific facts, but those supposed facts are organized and reported to advocate a political agenda. That is not unbiased scientific analysis.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:03 AM   #508
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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The left may pretend that global warming is based on scientific facts, but those supposed facts are organized and reported to advocate a political agenda. That is not unbiased scientific analysis.

That sure is the case in Australia.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:18 AM   #509
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Originally Posted by Vassago View Post
Science is based on theories rather than faith. The "facts" we know today can change as new information becomes available. I think this is something that is often lost on the more conservative crowd. They tend to not change their views on things at the rate of others, even when presented with new information.
We are less accepting of the media and doubly so in these modern times.

The left media tends to report what it wants to happen.

Climate change or more importantly the impact of climate change is similar to diet and health. The diet/health deal has been changing and changing backwards and forwards for years.

You mention pollution. That is a different deal to climate change. Climate change has its core basis a rise in average temperature. With pollution the frog is the canary in the coal mine and that has zero to do with temperature. The reptile probably has the most waterproof and weatherproof skin of any animal and the frog is just the opposite which is why with pollution the frog is the canary in the coal mine.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:35 AM   #510
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

I remember when eggs were scientifically considered to be bad for you. It caused high cholesterol, apparently the egg framers did not agree with that science. So now we have new science that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that eggs are now magically good for you. I don't know about you, but I think some Benjamin's changed hands. Science is for sale, regardless of what some people think is a political statement.

If they can manipulate eggs and sugar they sure as hell can manipulate climate.


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