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Old 10-31-2019, 11:25 AM   #571
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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However the ocean's temperature is well above 4C.
True off the coast of Australia. But not surrounding Antarctica which is what matters

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Old 10-31-2019, 02:53 PM   #572
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

We all know that the USA is in the top 2 most polluting countries.

Why then, does the USA pull out of every climate change international conference? It gives the impression that the USA is waving two fingers at the rest of the world in a don't care type attitude.

Do you think it is to do with money?

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Old 10-31-2019, 03:25 PM   #573
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Originally Posted by ColinEssex View Post
We all know that the USA is in the top 2 most polluting countries.

Why then, does the USA pull out of every climate change international conference? It gives the impression that the USA is waving two fingers at the rest of the world in a don't care type attitude.

Do you think it is to do with money?

Col
Col,

This only a guess on my part but I have lot do with them because of guns etc.

Australia is way over the top with the stuff. The Labor party and the Greens have declared a climate emergency. However, where Australia is very different to America is the population spread. For example if New York city Metro population was like Sydney in terms of percentage or population it would have 65 million plus people. Los Angeles would have 65 million.

Nearly everyone in Australia lives in either Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide and up the East coast from Melbourne to Brisbane. NASA have a map (Google will get it) of the earth laid out flat and of night time. A look at Australia at night tells the story.

Thus the political situation is very different. In the inner city suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne (lots of Federal and State electorates) the climate change thing is unreal. America does not have this political situation.

As a side note I am still waiting for someone to tell me how long will it take for the ice at the Antarctic to melt. A very rough estimate would be fine.

This should be really simple as the volume, surface area, depth and temperature of the ice is known. Of course no one wants to talk about it because not only is the mass of ice so huge and so deep but it is way below 0C or 32F. A lot of people think the ice is few feet deep. It is 1000s and 1000s of feet deep.

Of course no one wants to give the answer because that would blow to pieces the dramatic story on sea levels rising etc.

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Old 10-31-2019, 04:52 PM   #574
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Originally Posted by ColinEssex View Post
We all know that the USA is in the top 2 most polluting countries.

Why then, does the USA pull out of every climate change international conference? It gives the impression that the USA is waving two fingers at the rest of the world in a don't care type attitude.

Do you think it is to do with money?

Col
My guess is this statement will go unchallenged by the progressive left that lurks here.
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Old 10-31-2019, 08:39 PM   #575
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

The USA pulls out of every climate change conference because many people here see the conference as a waste of our time. I didn't say it IS a waste of our time, but it is PERCEIVED as such.

If you look at the Paris accords of a few years ago as one example, they imposed nearly Draconian measures on the wealthiest countries and would have restricted the national economies in a strangle hold. USA unemployment would have skyrocketed to new heights as opposed to its current status - lowest unemployment in over 49 years. The American people, rightly or wrongly, saw it as a money grab through social engineering with a climatology veneer. Again - that is the perception. I do not claim this perception to be uniformly held by USA citizens.

President Trump has business interests at heart. He probably wouldn't deny it. But he is also aware that if you kill a country's industrial base you kill its employment potential. Industries are where you find large-scale employment. With large-scale employment, you have people paying into Social Security. You have people no longer "on the dole" - because they have jobs that pay decent wages, or at least close to decent wages. There aren't enough executive jobs, teaching jobs, etc. to go around. So anything that kills employment levels in the USA is not seen as a good thing.

The Paris and Kyoto accords were seen by high-level politicians a bad deal for the American people. That is basically why the USA steps away from those conferences. I will not (for this post) make a claim as to what is correct. But I can tell you that what the American people see is a set of meetings by liberals who can't continue with tax-and-spend - so their parties see a way to "put the squeeze" on the USA. Thanks but no thanks.
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:11 AM   #576
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

Jeremy Clarkson on climate change - hilarious!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/102618...ids-terrified/

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Old 11-02-2019, 12:47 PM   #577
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Originally Posted by AccessBlaster View Post
My guess is this statement will go unchallenged by the progressive left that lurks here.
Although his answer was more nuanced, I'd say that the Doc's answer largely confirmed the money part of that quote and that the USA cares more about the domestic audience than it does about the impact on other countries.

So where does that leave us? I really don't think Doc could ever be associated with the 'progressive left' whoever that may be.

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Old 11-02-2019, 02:06 PM   #578
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

I take no issue with Doc's reply.
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Old 11-02-2019, 02:40 PM   #579
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

If we're just talking about perception, nor do I.
You may just have missed my point?
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Old 11-02-2019, 03:17 PM   #580
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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President Trump has business interests at heart. He probably wouldn't deny it. But he is also aware that if you kill a country's industrial base you kill its employment potential. Industries are where you find large-scale employment.
Oh he certainly has the business interests of the established powers at heart. Mining companies run the world and governments are their willing puppets.



The greatest myth is that economies would be destroyed by changing to renewable energy sources. In fact the change represents the greatest economic opportunity ever.
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Old 11-02-2019, 04:47 PM   #581
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Old 11-02-2019, 09:45 PM   #582
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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The greatest myth is that economies would be destroyed by changing to renewable energy sources. In fact the change represents the greatest economic opportunity ever.
It might surprise you to find that I actually agree with the idea of finding renewable energy sources. The problem is that so far, a lot of the attempts have fallen flat. There was an article not that long ago in a UK periodical regarding "windmill farms" and the fact that current technology is inadequate to prevent the blades from falling apart, making the expense of the farms skyrocket. You would have to search to find it again, but I believe I saw that in this thread over six months ago, maybe more. There is a corollary to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." And that is "if it breaks too often, don't fix it - scrap it and try something else."

My issue with things like reducing carbon footprints by switching to electric cars has to do with toxic battery disposal. Generating power without fossil fuels is great, as in building large scale solar arrays - but the byproducts of making photovoltaic cells are usually a very un-nice set of polluting heavy elements that are liver poisons.

If you recall, I favor environmental cleanup for disease/health reasons. So far, a lot of these schemes to push renewable energy have been examples of "robbing Peter to pay Paul." I would LOVE to see a good, long-term, non-polluting renewable energy source.

If you can get some new renewable energy source to work large-scale, GO for it. I am not opposed. But imposing Draconian measures on extant populations (e.g. as in the Paris or Kyoto accords) is a death sentence to the folks living marginally due to imbalance of wealth in the countries that would be penalized for having developed that far. Old folks who rely on energy to keep their household climate in a habitable range would die during extreme summers or winters if their energy allotments were cut.

OK, it comes down to "survival of the fittest" in action when that happens. But that somehow seems a bit callous, and I'm not advocating it. Do you not see the dilemma?
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:25 PM   #583
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

I think, the way I read it, Docs original (long) answer could have been 'yes, it comes down to money and the USA cares nothing of producing massive pollution '
I understand, in the USA, each main political party receives huge (like billions) of dollars for their costs of putting up candidates, in exchange for not changing anything in industry that might affect profit. Backhanders in brown envelopes go in and out of the White House on a regular basis.

Rightly or wrongly, that's the impression we get of the USA politics here in the UK.

Col
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:28 PM   #584
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Rightly or wrongly, that's the impression we get of the USA politics here in the UK.
Spot on, actually...
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:34 PM   #585
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Re: NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

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Originally Posted by ColinEssex View Post
I think, the way I read it, Docs original (long) answer could have been 'yes, it comes down to money and the USA cares nothing of producing massive pollution '
I understand, in the USA, each main political party receives huge (like billions) of dollars for their costs of putting up candidates, in exchange for not changing anything in industry that might affect profit. Backhanders in brown envelopes go in and out of the White House on a regular basis.

Rightly or wrongly, that's the impression we get of the USA politics here in the UK.

Col
I don't think that is unique to America and goes beyond donations. In Australia and I would assume America and the UK would be similar, very big business is a much bigger percantage of the economy that it was many many years ago.

In Australia if one of the two major parties went to the next election on the basis of stopping out ridiculous immigration they would win in a landslide. The fact that both majpr parties have the immigration policy that tells you there is an outside force at work.

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