DRM and PC Gaming (1 Viewer)

Has anyone else here been following the DRM restrictions for recent game releases to PC like Bioshock and upcoming ones like Mass Effect and Spore?

I was so excited for Mass Effect I'd actually pre-ordered the darned thing (first time I've ever pre-ordered a game).

Then I found out what they plan to do for DRM. If you're thinking it's something akin to the usual 'must have the disc in the drive' then welcome to the new brave world of pc gaming.

Remember, this is for a single player game with zero online content features.

First off, you absolutely must have an internet connection to install and play your game. No internet = no play for you.

Second. You are allowed three online 'activations'. Each time you reinstall your operating system, upgrade your pc's components, or replace failed hardware, you'll burn up another activation. When you've reached three activations, you're only recourse is to call the publisher and beg for more. They do not say what grounds will be considered good enough to be granted more.

Third. You are installing SecuROM (Sony's latest rootkit) when you install the game. It hides itself, makes non-editable registry entries (you need third party, non-free software to get rid of it) and the latest variation of this software sends unspecified 'information' to the game publisher. And none of this is transparent to the end user.

Fourth. If ever there's a problem with the authentication servers, or they decide its no longer economic to maintain the servers like Microsoft did with Plays for Sure, and Sony did with their music DRM servers, then you will no longer be able to install your game on any new computer system that you own, or perform upgrades to a computer with an existing installation without triggering the need to re-activate your copy.

Fifth. Online activations require bandwidth. Perhaps a limited amount but we have no way of knowing whether a dicey dialup connection, like mine, will work or timeout. Over time, as they start using this spyware for data mining, I won't be at all surprised if they start requiring broadband.

Sixth. They also planned to force an onliine re-authentication check every 5 - 10 days until the bad PR and customers outcry 'forced' them to back down on this. Personally, I think this was a calculated move to make it appear that the final DRM scheme was more 'reasonable' even though it is now equally as bad as that for Bioshock (which caused a huge uproar at the time with all the server issues they had). However, I will be shocked if this concept doesn't return again soon for some other game once apthy overcomes antipathy for this round of DRM restrictions.

The official justification for all this nonsense is to stop piracy, of course. But the exact same DRM scheme was cracked in 14 days for Bioshock. So how effective will this be except to drive previously legitimate, paying customers into getting cracked versions that don't have all this junk instead? I'm not advocating piracy. I don't have/own any pirated games and I still don't plan to go that route. But I'm heartily tired of the endless encroachment of software companies paranoia onto my rights as a consumer to own and use what I have paid for.

And making all this really irritating is that NONE of this information is available on the box or displayed during the installation process. Disgusting.

So, I canceled my pre-order and am mighty peeved to have had to do so. The game looks awesome to me, but I'm not prepared to shell out my money for something that I cannot control where and when I play it. I feel like the legitimate consumer is like a frog in a pot with the water being heated slowly. I think it's time to get out of the pot.

Until the pc game industry comes to its senses, I'm officially boycotting all such ridiculous DRM schemes from now on. I'm not opposed to the disc-in-the-drive method of DRM as it's only a minor inconvenience, and I control whether the disc is kept in good shape, but this nonsense has got to stop.

Ok, that's my rant Anyone else here thinking about buying those games for PC consider yourself forewarned.

It's far easier to get pirated games now then buy them. Why *PAY* for *DRM*-ridden games when you can quite easily download them (often faster than the time it takes to go to the shop and buy it (but that depends on your down-speed and the quality of your site/app). I could tell you that I could go click a link right now and have the game on my hdd in 30mins... free of cost and DRM.

It's a shame really. Most of the time its the publishers (not the people that make the game) that enforce this bull**** on games. They need to understand that it's not the answer, punishing people that actually *buy* there games.... it's really quite insane. People that actually pirate there games don't care, in most cases they don't even download the DRM that comes with the un-pirated versions. If they think they are actually going to stop pirates cracking there games their living in dream world. At the very most they can only delay them, but they wont stop them, ever. They need to adapt, and find ways to work around it, imo.

Quick! Call Stallman on the red phone!

Seems kind of ironic to talk about pirating software on a board made up of developers who make their living selling software.

Some people use pirated copies of games they already own just to get around the stupid DRM. It seems ridiculous to have to put a CD/DVD into the drive just to play a stupid game. I'm not saying that I would do that but I'm sure someone does.

I understand where you're coming from regarding the irony. It's unforunate, though, because most of time, DRM just annoys legitimate users while doing nothing (if anything at all) to prevent actual piracy.

As far as I am concerned, this is really developers' fault for not addressing this. You know the saying about reaping what they sow. Not that it would justify piracy; two wrongs doesn't make a right. But why solve a problem that can simply be avoided at all by not creating it in first place?

Hey, I'm not advocating or condoning piracy in any way. I haven't pirated a game since high school (20 years ago now) and have spent hundreds on games since then. I'm not about to start pirating games now. I hold that if you want the games you like to be made you have to pay for them. Game designers have mortgages too!

What makes me snarky about the DRM issue is that it blatantly does nothing to stop piracy. So, what's it for then?

I think the most convincing thesis I've heard put forward is that it's more realistically an attempt to shift the consumer from buying software as a product, to 'buying' software as a service. So you end up paying for the same software over and over and over. Either to get more 'activations' over time, or to buy add-on content/patches etc.

The problem is most consumers don't like the idea of paying 'product' prices but getting 'rental' rights. So they keep trotting out the piracy thing as justification even though it just doesn't hold up IMO.

But I still can't believe they can get away with all this without notifying consumers on the box that, in addition to the game software that you think you're buying, you're also getting spyware/rootkit software. I still think there's a lawsuit going to happen before much longer.

Who knows, maybe Stallman will save the game, er, day.

What really gets me most about this is do they not realise what can be done can be undone.

People will crack DRM, produce tools to remove them, figure out methods to bypass activation virtually anything to get around such restrictions. This applies to both pirated software and legit bought stuff just to avoid such nonsense.

Remember the impossible to crack BD+ on Blue Ray disks well you can buy legal commercially available software to beat that.

Not that this is exactly in the same category but with Vista, you could legitimately download a 'trial' version of Vista (any flavour) for you to use for 30 days, lovely. It would stop working after 30 days and the old trick of changing the system date didn't extend it - ha ha cries Microsoft get out of that one. (and of course it was a full version only limited to 30 days)

Within (what seemed like hours) it was beaten by a very simple process. I will admit I did this myself this was because 30 days wasn't long enough for me try it out with everything on my PC - I removed it ages ago (Vista) because it didn't work with everything and when I do want to move to it I will buy a legit full on copy.

Now there is no reason for me to do this I could keep using the 'hacked' version ad infinitum but I'm an honest guy and frankly can afford it even though it vastly overpriced.

People will always do this kind of stuff even if it's only because they can Linux on an Xbox anyone

Agreed. Software-only DRM has never worked, and will never work to stop piracy. We have hundreds of examples of broken DRM schemes and not ONE that did not fail given a relatively short amount of time.

So what's the real objective then? I mean, DRM schemes cost money to implement, run the risk of exposing your company to legal battles/costs, and annoy at least some of your existing customers enough for them to find alternatives.

I totally understand wanting to protect your IP. But since DRM does not work to stop piracy, why encumber your product with it? If its hard to compete with 'free' non-drm-encumbered pirate copies, how does it make business sense to try competing by providing only a degraded product experience for legitimate customers?

As for vista, I've decided that I'm done with windows and store-bought computers. From now on, I'm going to learn to build my own systems and switch to Linux (probably ubuntu). If I really need to run something on windows, I'll buy a second hand copy of xp and run it as a vm.

I simply can't keep up with the patching download requirements for windows over my dialup connection, and I sure as heck don't want to have to deal with online activations for my OS over dialup, nor have to put up with TPM chips.

CraigDolphin said:

Agreed. Software-only DRM has never worked, and will never work to stop piracy. We have hundreds of examples of broken DRM schemes and not ONE that did not fail given a relatively short amount of time.

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To be fair, hardware DRM sucks, too.

So what's the real objective then? I mean, DRM schemes cost money to implement, run the risk of exposing your company to legal battles/costs, and annoy at least some of your existing customers enough for them to find alternatives.

I totally understand wanting to protect your IP. But since DRM does not work to stop piracy, why encumber your product with it? If its hard to compete with 'free' non-drm-encumbered pirate copies, how does it make business sense to try competing by providing only a degraded product experience for legitimate customers?

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Yes, I do think this simply scream time to change the business model. The old way of doing things just won't work nowadays. Heck, take a look at indie bands- they've found a way to make profits by having their music freely available for downloads which people end up buying their CDs.

As for vista, I've decided that I'm done with windows and store-bought computers. From now on, I'm going to learn to build my own systems and switch to Linux (probably ubuntu). If I really need to run something on windows, I'll buy a second hand copy of xp and run it as a vm.

I simply can't keep up with the patching download requirements for windows over my dialup connection, and I sure as heck don't want to have to deal with online activations for my OS over dialup, nor have to put up with TPM chips.

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May I recommend Mac OS X? It's now UNIX-certified, so it has all UNIX goodness that any Linux has, but is much easier to work with, and is far more stable and user-friendly. And if you need, put the Windows in a nice little sandbox where it can play and can't get hurt by big nasty virus (well, except the times when it sticks the thumb in its eyes....)

I love my MacBook Pro and iMac.

CraigDolphin said:

I totally understand wanting to protect your IP. But since DRM does not work to stop piracy, why encumber your product with it?

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IMO it has to be ignorance (or maybe a lack of vision), the music, film and major software houses have missed a trick - online distribution via P2P, if they realised the potential earlier they could have made their 'products' available at a greatly reduced cost. I would happily pay a few quid to download the latest film/ album or a cheaper version of software via this method. (or even stream^ them in the case of films) They claim there would be not much difference in cost but I'm not convinced.

^I know of 100's maybe even 1000's of site's that provide links to other sites that host technically illegal content - go figure

Now P2P has exploded into an entity that, in the majority of cases, provides access to pirate copies of almost everything they feel the need to protect against it instead of embracing the technology, look at the BBC iPlayer I think it's great (OK it's free for us UK residents) but it provides me with (almost - dang that time limit*) exactly what I want, I can watch any show I like whenever I want to from any PC I want.

*In fact thinking about it I can get around this without any problem if I wanted to in fact taking it a stage further I guarantee you if any video/ audio can be played on my PC even if it is DRM'ed, copy protected whatever I could produce a non DRM version with minimum fuss - if it can be played it can be copied

CraigDolphin said:

As for vista, I've decided that I'm done with windows and store-bought computers. From now on, I'm going to learn to build my own systems and switch to Linux (probably ubuntu).

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Off topic I know (please don't slap me ) but interesting because I'm going the other way, I've always built my own PC's from scratch right back to my DX2-66 but now I'm going to splash out on an uber rig and economically speaking I can save almost £900 getting someone else to build it.

Banana said:

May I recommend Mac OS X? It's now UNIX-certified, so it has all UNIX goodness that any Linux has, but is much easier to work with, and is far more stable and user-friendly. And if you need, put the Windows in a nice little sandbox where it can play and can't get hurt by big nasty virus (well, except the times when it sticks the thumb in its eyes....)

I love my MacBook Pro and iMac.

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You may ...I love my IPOD touch too ...but...

If I build my own machine, Apples EULA for Mac OSX forbids me from installing it on a non-Apple machine.

I guess this whole DRM thing has me beginning to question proprietary software in general.

I've heard a lot of arguments by open-source advocates for a long time now about the potential for abuse in closed-source proprietary ecosystems of software development. Until recently, I thought them to be a little too starry eyed/conspiracy-fearful to take too seriously. Also, having spent the last 20 years on windows machines I'm a bit reluctant to spend time relearning everything I already know how to do in windows.

But this whole DRM thing has gone way beyond what I feel is reasonable, and possibly even legal. The persistent lack of response from regulators and the courts on whether EULA and secret DRM makes me very cynical about whether the consumer has anyone watching out for our rights in this age of commercial lobbyists and influence.

In the past, I've been prepared to give companies like Microsoft, Apple, and other software developers some leeway as they try to deal with a very real problem (software piracy), even if I didn't think that those measures would have any effect (and they haven't).

But now they're seriously messing with my preferred entertainment medium, and trying to erode my rights under the law to do what I want with a product even after I paid for it. They've moved from understandable jitters about piracy and pointless but minor inconvenience style DRM (eg cd-in the drive), to stepping way over my line of tolerance. Now I regret they were ever allowed the leeway to use the extremely dubious practise of EULA after the purchase is made, or even minor drm irritants like the cd in the drive nonsense.

That's become quite personal to me. I've grown up with computers and I've had to deal with ridiculous corporate IT policies that have constrained my ability to use my work computer the way I know I should be able to. I absolutely refuse to allow software developers to dictate how I use my computer at home, or to potentially abuse my trust by installing software that communicates with them in a non-transparent (to me) manner.

Apple is a closed source software developer. Whether they're behaving now, or not, I don't know. But, given time, they're going to be tempted to delve into the dark side if they alone are the guardians of my rights. Since I lack faith in the government or the courts to defend my rights, and many such companies are demonstrably untrustworthy now, am I willing to repeat this whole experience if Apple turns out to be the next Microsoft? Who's to say Apple won't join in with the TPM advocates and poison the hardware itself?

At least with open source software the code is out there for all to see. I may not understand any of it myself, but there are thousands of software gurus who do. And I have confidence that at least one of them will holler in plain english if something's rotten.

At least if I build my own machine, I know what's in there and can avoid the TPM chip. And if I want to build my own machine, legally I either have to choke down windows again, or go open-source. I'm now at the point where I view paying money to any company that uses online-DRM is now paying to be abused.

As much as I love my Ipod touch, now I'm not too happy about Apples Itunes DRM scheme either. I'm not too sure how to address that issue since I already own my Ipod touch.

All that said, I understand what you mean about changing the business model. I agree that this needs to happen.

My problem is that I don't think the business model they appear to be aiming at (subscription software as a service) is in any way beneficial to me as a consumer. Neither does everyone have access to broadband and can download megabytes of updates/additional content/activations. This is even more of a problem in some other countries, though broadband penetration in the US is abysmal.

Any business model that relies on 100% broadband penetration and connectivity is going to exclude significant portions of the populace: including me. Obviously, I'm not going to be happy about that eventuality.

I think it's a case where they've now pushed me hard enough to make me now completely allergic to DRM and the potential perils of closed-source software. As much as I genuinely like Apple's products, I'm no longer willing to trust Apple (or any other for-profit company) to respect my legal rights, or to safeguard my ability to continue to use any software I purchase from them.

I think the open source model offers one compelling feature that I had never fully appreciated before: explict legal freedom to control what I buy/make. That's the reason I'm finally willing to contemplate switching to Linux.

Sorry if this comes across as a bit emotive. It's a big deal for me to make such a drastic change, and I'm super angry that I'm going to miss out on some great content (which I would have happily paid for) over the next few years while I wait for this nonsense to shake out. And I'm just as angry that a bunch of scumbag pirates will blithely play the games I now won't, without paying a cent, or having to deal with any of this DRM nonsense at all.

Minkey said:

Off topic I know (please don't slap me ) but interesting because I'm going the other way, I've always built my own PC's from scratch right back to my DX2-66 but now I'm going to splash out on an uber rig and economically speaking I can save almost £900 getting someone else to build it.

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The thing is that if you buy a rig from someone else, they control what OS options you have. Try buying an uber rig from Dell without windows included. a portion of your purchase goes to support microsoft, even if you uninstall it and switch to linux or Mac OSX.

You also get all the Dell-installed crapware (much of which does not uninstall completely in my experience). Now if you're going to format the HD anyway then you're in fine shape: as long as the OEM manufacturer has not included any secret hardware like the TPM chip you're safe from that.

And also, FYI, be aware that OEM rigs often feature non-standard connectors to prevent you upgrading components not sourced theough them.

Craig,

I quite understand your position. All I would say is that considering that Apple is a hardware company first, requiring that Mac OS X only be on their machine seems reasonable to me. It's part of the appeal- they don't just sell a software and a hardware but rather a tightly bundled package where it just works. Furthermore, I don't have that much problem of DRM or forced updates (haven't had one, in fact). Ironically, I am far more annoyed with PC version of Apple's Quicktime than I am with Mac, but I understand this is forced upon by music labels.

I don't play musics so I have no idea whether iTunes had a DRM and how it would work, though I was told that it's actually more lenient, and has been used as a lever to prod the labels to relax their silly demands.

So, basically, yes, Apple is a closed source, but I've not had this gotten in my face as I had with Microsoft, and I can use any free software I want on top of Mac OS X, without all the hassle that normally goes in setting up a Linux box. (I manage a Slackware server, BTW- Love it, but wouldn't recommend it for a end-user experience.) Software freedom is all good and well, but in my case at least, I'm quite happy to pay for a package so I can just get to working without having to configure countless options, downloading and compiling various libraries to satisfy dependencies, and other stuff. Slackware gives me the complete control over everything, where I need it with no hassles and frills but when I just want to write an email, surf the net and manage photos, I'm happy with OS X where I don't have to do any tinkering before I can do any of those.

As I said, Apple makes great products and I'm not suggesting that they're the bad guys at present. But, once I would have said that Windows was a 'good enough' product and didn't impose ridiculous condition on me as a consumer. How things have changed!

There's that old saying 'Fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice - shame on me'

The itunes drm is mildly annoying but not beyond my tolerance level. My objection now is that I'm so sensitized to DRM I just don't want it on principle because companies appear to have mistaken my previous tolerance for tacit approval and apathy. I intend to ensure my money and behavior as a consumer sends a different and unmistakable message for me now.

I've heard that the newer Linux desktop distributions aren't as cumbersome to setup and work with as they used to be. Are you saying that's really not the case?

CraigDolphin said:

I've heard that the newer Linux desktop distributions aren't as cumbersome to setup and work with as they used to be. Are you saying that's really not the case?

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While it is indeed true that they are now more friendly than before, the problem is more like "not quite smooth enough." It can run out of box, but there's odd quirk here and there that will require intervention to get it working. A good example is wireless configuration. It takes some guesswork and elbow grease to get it working, whereas even on sucky Windows, it's very simple matter of detecting and joining a open wireless network, and we're not even talking about secured wireless network yet.

For someone that just want the computer to work, as one would use a tool or an appliance, Linux isn't quite there yet. For someone who want to learn a bit about computing and enjoys tinkering even over a frivolous matter, sure!

In my case, I spend enough of my time tinkering with Access and MySQL, so when I come home, I just want to enjoy my net-surfing without dealing with random errors or stupid forced updates, and for that reason, Mac OS X meets my need just perfectly.

FWIW, Here's Steve Jobs' thoughts on DRM..

Also, I know that FSF has a special GPL license for certain softwares that depend on closed source on the reasoning that by having a free software available, demand will increase and prompt the closed source to become open or development of free source to replace the closed source. Whether Stallman supports this, I don't know, though I won't deny that Stallman holds higher moral grounds than Jobs does by refusing to play the pragmatist. But sometime you have to be pragmatic to reach your ultimate goal, IMO.

CraigDolphin said:

The thing is that if you buy a rig from someone else, they control what OS options you have. Try buying an uber rig from Dell without windows included.

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I'm certainly not going to buy one from Dell it will be a proper PC and I'm choosing a manufacturer that allows me to choose no O/S option but it is bit mute point for me as I'll need Vista to make use of DX10.

CraigDolphin said:

And also, FYI, be aware that OEM rigs often feature non-standard connectors to prevent you upgrading components not sourced theough them.

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I think you have a thing against Dell they certainly used to do a trick where they would use a standard PSU and connectors but change the wiring to their motherboard but I don't believe they do that anymore and again I choose my components carefully I certainly wouldn't buy a PC if I didn't know the make and model of all the components.

Minkey said:

I think you have a thing against Dell they certainly used to do a trick where they would use a standard PSU and connectors but change the wiring to their motherboard but I don't believe they do that anymore and again I choose my components carefully I certainly wouldn't buy a PC if I didn't know the make and model of all the components.

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Not really. I own two dell desktops and a dell notebook. They are a good, economic option.

But I recently decided I wanted to upgrade the motherboard/chip on the computer my wife uses and found, from searching on the web, that there were going to be hardware connector issues to address as well as having to buy a non-Dell version of xp since, apparently, the version that came with the computer is somehow tied to the dell motherboard etc. Together it stopped my upgrade plans

Not that this should be a dealbreaker for anyone else, just caught me by surprise and made me decide I want to have more control over my hardware even if it costs me a bit more.

And back to the central premise for the thread, last night the first cracked version of Mass Effect was posted online.

So it took the pirates just 2 days from release to crack the drm. I'm waiting to see what the game developer does now: do they release a patch to remove the drm, or do they ignore it and prove to my satisfaction that their stated reason for the DRM software (to stop piracy) is just cover for some other unstated justification that they don't want to admit to.

CraigDolphin said:

I'm waiting to see what the game developer does now: do they release a patch to remove the drm, or do they ignore it and prove to my satisfaction that their stated reason for the DRM software (to stop piracy) is just cover for some other unstated justification that they don't want to admit to.

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Like invading your privacy?

georgedwilkinson said:

Like invading your privacy?

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Potentially.

Or trying to shift customers to a subscription model without their realizing it.

Or a bit of both. It's all speculation, but there clearly has to be some other reason for it than anti-piracy.