Access 2013 (1 Viewer)

[shadow9449]

With all the reviews I see on the big preview of Office 2013, I have yet to see any reliable information about Access. Has anyone heard anything interesting about the new release?

SHADOW

 

[boblarson]

I've played with it and, in my opinion, it sucks. Microsoft has ignored developers again and have done things for the "new user" which, in many cases, are going to create headaches for us here on the forums as we try to explain that what they put in is not a "best practice."

They have pretty much ignored the developers and they have made it so that it is going to be hard to upgrade a 2010 database to the next version.

My opinion only but this will show you how I feel -

I have upgraded, and played with, each new version and have come to be okay with them for the most part. I played with this one and stopped participating as a part of the technical preview for it when they told me that they weren't going to fix a really basic, flawed item (the Linked Table Manager) and, while I would have had enough posts to qualify easily for MVP again, I told them I didn't want it.

Anyway, I'm sure people will like many aspects of it. But it is not for me. I will not upgrade to that version until I have absolutely no alternative.

 

[shadow9449]

I've played with it and, in my opinion, it sucks. Microsoft has ignored developers again and have done things for the "new user" which, in many cases, are going to create headaches for us here on the forums as we try to explain that what they put in is not a "best practice."

They have pretty much ignored the developers and they have made it so that it is going to be hard to upgrade a 2010 database to the next version.


I have upgraded, and played with, each new version and have come to be okay with them for the most part. I played with this one and stopped participating as a part of the technical preview for it when they told me that they weren't going to fix a really basic, flawed item (the Linked Table Manager) ...

Anyway, I'm sure people will like many aspects of it. But it is not for me. I will not upgrade to that version until I have absolutely no alternative.

Wow...that sucks. I was hoping that they would finally do things such as: make the ribbon easier to program without 3rd party tools or XML coding, better SQL Server integration, better web availability and other long-needed improvements. I guess they screwed up the opportunity...

What about the linked table manager is flawed that needs fixing?

Is there anything good or welcome about it? Is there anything about it that they completely ruined that was good in previous versions?

SHADOW

 

[boblarson]

What about the linked table manager is flawed that needs fixing?

1. You can't resize it so if you have a long path or long name you can't see it all.

2. If you have multiple databases linked, like I have at work, there is no way to easily relink them all. You have to select only the tables that belong to one database at a time. But they are all mixed together and so you have to carefully go down each one at a time to see if you need to select it. It would work so much easier if they could be sorted by database and THEN by table name instead of just by table name.

Two simple things which, would be extremely helpful to anyone who links to more than one backend object. (in one case of mine I link to about 150 tables in 5 different databases. It takes a long time to relink them when we move it to QA and then yet again when we have to move it to Production)

Is there anything good or welcome about it? Is there anything about it that they completely ruined that was good in previous versions?

I do believe there are some good things but frankly I can't remember any of them.

 

[shadow9449]

1. You can't resize it so if you have a long path or long name you can't see it all.

2. If you have multiple databases linked, like I have at work, there is no way to easily relink them all. You have to select only the tables that belong to one database at a time. But they are all mixed together and so you have to carefully go down each one at a time to see if you need to select it. It would work so much easier if they could be sorted by database and THEN by table name instead of just by table name.

Those are good points. I happen to only use one backend and I try to keep the path to the backend as short as I can but I can see why that would be a hassle to people who can't.

I think the fact that there are SO MANY 3rd party tools for Access (such as your own front end updater) shows that there are so many weak areas that it's just time for Microsoft to address.

I do believe there are some good things but frankly I can't remember any of them.

They must really have made an impact!

SHADOW

 

[exebat]

I think this is the worst Access version yet.

I spent 20 minutes on it, and couldn't find any and I really mean any new thing except the metro interface.

Even the VBA IDE is still the same (10 years old) no new addin creating ability, no OData, no better SQL server support, no gradient backgrounds for forms,....

NOTHING NEW. I cant believe that it took them two years to produce this.

Only new things are the "Access Apps". The same web databases we had before. They added some new design options, but to use it, you still need to have Office 365 or SharePoint Server. In comparison to their own LightSwitch, it is just a bad copy.

If you don't want to build this "new" and the so called web apps, you don't need 2013.

 

[boblarson]

They must really have made an impact!

SHADOW

As I wasn't too sure if it was out in Public yet, I was hesitant to get too detailed due to the non-disclosure agreement. But since it has been announced and the Community Preview is out there. I should be free to talk about it.

The SharePoint stuff with Access Services is improved but at a cost. You can't just upgrade your previous 2010 Sharepoint with Access Services database. There is no upgrade path. So it will take a bit of work to go there with an existing database.

And one more not so good item - they renamed the datatypes to fit more with SharePoint than with SQL Server. So, instead of Text and Memo you have something like Single Line Text and Multiple Line Text (I don't know what the final names are as they did some tweaks to them but didn't change them back to what they used to be).

 

[exebat]

@boblarson - Since you used it more than I did, are you aware of any new features for the normal, desktop development ?

 

[shadow9449]

I think this is the worst Access version yet.

I spent 20 minutes on it, and couldn't find any and I really mean any new thing except the metro interface.

Even the VBA IDE is still the same (10 years old) no new addin creating ability, no OData, no better SQL server support, no gradient backgrounds for forms,....

NOTHING NEW. I cant believe that it took them two years to produce this.

Only new things are the "Access Apps". The same web databases we had before. They added some new design options, but to use it, you still need to have Office 365 or SharePoint Server. In comparison to their own LightSwitch, it is just a bad copy.

If you don't want to build this "new" and the so called web apps, you don't need 2013.

Maybe with this new release they will be closer to actually fixing the bugs from 2010. A year or so after any release they come out with service packs that actually fix problems in the previous edition

I'm trying to be optimistic

SHADOW

 

[boblarson]

@boblarson - Since you used it more than I did, are you aware of any new features for the normal, desktop development ?

Sorry, this is one version where I hated it so bad that I stopped using it almost immediately after our Technical Preview started, which was many, many months ago (end of last year sometime). So, I really have not thought about it or even wanted to know. So when I came back in the first week of March, after the MVP Summit, I totally let it all out of my mind and it is hard to bring any of it back. I would have to go look again to know and I'm not sure I really want to. Same goes for Windows 8 - hate it and will not upgrade until made to do so.

 

[NigelShaw]

Hi Guys

i have office 2010 everything 'except' Access. I still prefer to use 2007. i tried 2010 and didnt like it. It seems to be going backwards. I can see the meeting now..............
( cloudy thought appears in a speech bubble )

MS "I know guys, lets take that really useful function programmers call 'menus', and make it near impossible to build them native to the application"

All "Hurrahh for that ingenious idea"

Hand up "ooh ooh and, can we add a totally useless Ribbon instead that isnt programmable?"

MS "Dont be stupid Norman...... We've already done it!"




Nigel

 

[boblarson]

Hi Guys

i have office 2010 everything 'except' Access. I still prefer to use 2007. i tried 2010 and didnt like it. It seems to be going backwards. I can see the meeting now..............
( cloudy thought appears in a speech bubble )

MS "I know guys, lets take that really useful function programmers call 'menus', and make it near impossible to build them native to the application"

All "Hurrahh for that ingenious idea"

Hand up "ooh ooh and, can we add a totally useless Ribbon instead that isnt programmable?"

MS "Dont be stupid Norman...... We've already done it!"




Nigel

Nigel - just an FYI for you. In Access 2010 the Ribbon has had programmable items added. There is a lot more you can do with the Ribbon in 2010 than in 2007.

 

[NigelShaw]

Hey Bob

I'm aware of that but its still limited. I don't think its as straight forward to run code from as it was without using the specific editor. Also, can you limit the tabs or turn them off for your app in the editor to only show yours?

Right click. Menus are gone too?


Cheers

Nigel

 

[boblarson]

Hey Bob

I'm aware of that but its still limited. I don't think its as straight forward to run code from as it was without using the specific editor. Also, can you limit the tabs or turn them off for your app in the editor to only show yours?

Yes, I believe you can. But I have to admit that I haven't messed with it that much. So I would have to go attempt that to be sure.

Right click. Menus are gone too?

Right click - you can create your own context sensitive menus still but you need to use code.

 

[speakers_86]

Two simple things which, would be extremely helpful to anyone who links to more than one backend object. (in one case of mine I link to about 150 tables in 5 different databases. It takes a long time to relink them when we move it to QA and then yet again when we have to move it to Production)

I'm sure you have a sub for this, but since you brought it up, I like the JStreet Relinker module for relinking backends. Just sayin.

 

[boblarson]

I'm sure you have a sub for this, but since you brought it up, I like the JStreet Relinker module for relinking backends. Just sayin.

Yes, there are some ways around it. But it doesn't do the trick for this one due to the multiple data source types as well. They could fix it with relative ease (or they should be able to), but have chosen not to do so. So, that's their choice and it is my choice to tell them to sod off.

 

[shadow9449]

With all the reviews I see on the big preview of Office 2013, I have yet to see any reliable information about Access. Has anyone heard anything interesting about the new release?

SHADOW

Case in point:

http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/en

If you scroll down, you'll see links to preview Office Apps, with Access conspicuously missing. Why the secrecy behind the new Access? (I'm asking rhetorically...I don't actually expect anyone to know the answer )

Even the information shared here is not public information from the media along with the information on Office 2013 released today, but rather from inner-circle pre-release information from months ago. Why is that?

SHADOW

 

[Simon_MT]

It does seem that only every ten years does Microsoft put out a really good, substantially improved and developer friendly version of Access:

1997
2007

There are only four years to wait!!!

Simon

 

[boblarson]

2003 was a good one too. In fact, next to 1997 it was one of the best versions.

 

[Simon_MT]

Not if you extensively use images.

Simon