BackEnd getting corrupted since (I think) Win 10 updates (1 Viewer)

[bignose2]

Office 365. All Windows 10. all PC's recently had the big win 10 feature update.

I have a FE & BE on PC 1 all wired LAN
I have FE on PC 2. wired LAN again.

With PC 1 FE running
When changing data on PC 2, after anything from few to 10 or so edits within the space of usually under a minute the data becomes corrupted.
Unrecognised format. A Repair recovers with all data OK.

It once did this very strange behaviour a year ago when I already had MalwareBytes installed & it upgraded to V.3. as soon as uninstalled it was fine.

Only does it if FE running on PC 1 & when PC2 FE running.
If FE not running PC2 works fine all day. So assume (99%) that network connection to the BE is probably fine.
PC1 will run fine all day

I have tried with various other PC's with the FE & BE in huge variety of different locations.
Decompiled FE
Fresh import of tables in the BE. Used backups before this started happening.

Driving me nuts!


Making harder to diagnose is the big Windows 10 updates, I do rather suspect some extra security is going on. I did switch Defender frewall & everything OFF briefly on PC2 but not the other yet.

Also had a power cut around the time of these problems but actually was not using during these few days so could be either.

Powered on/of any routers/modems switches etc.
LAN Speed test seem smooth 200Mbps+ which is normal for me.

Trouble is also a few days before I was testing malware AV sfotware again & installed Malwarebytes, all actually seemed OK then but I scanned & then removed, even used the remover tool. I also tried Kaspersky and again removed & used there tool. Decided to simply keep Windows defender.
I have test on PC's that have never had these installed FE & BE combinations so sure can't be these.

Running out of ideas & things to try.

This may be really dumb but in many,many years never needed and always worked without fail, The BE on PC1 is not in my trusted locations on PC2. Should it be? I can access/read & change a few things even now so seems odd. Going to test now but means allow trusted location on my network, not reccommed. I have always had full access to my network without this so confused.

 

[bignose2]

I think SOLVED.
It appears DOES have to be in the trusted location? Seems *** obvious now.
So far minimal testing but OK now

The BE was not listed in the TL in the networked other PC FE's
However why this has suddenly changed I don't know.

I am guessing it does need to be there but for years never, ever considered so did not cross my mind now, perhaps I did way back & forgot all about it but something, prob this update has cleared them out, very strange.

I spent all day on this and whilst typing made me think.. the amoutn of times this has happened but I was getting desperate.

 

[bignose2]

Spoke too soon,
seemed to help some of the testing PC but the original setup still crashes.
What the difference is I don't know.

Trusted pretty much anything I can & reboots etc etc.

I did find that when I tried to point the BE to a new PC not trusted I go a very clear message that I might not have permission so very confusing & now very tiring.

again run out of ideas!

 

[isladogs]

I would be very surprised if this is due to a Win10 update (though Win v1803 did break some Access geolocation code of mine)

Unrecognised format. A Repair recovers with all data OK.

Whenever I see that, I recommend that the database should be DECOMPILED to remove any corrupt compile code then RECOMPILED & finally COMPACTED
See http://www.fmsinc.com/microsoftaccess/performance/decompile.asp
Before doing any of the above, make a backup ... just in case

 

[Mark_]

Symptoms indicate file locking on PC1 when PC1 FE is accessing BE on PC1.

Can you move the BE to a different computer to test? This is the kind of problem I HATE dealing with.

 

[bignose2]

HI,

Thanks for the replies, as I say I decompiled etc & tried on other PC's.
There has been some improvement with the trusted locations but strangely still not helping on the original setup.

Just not following any logic I can see.

accdb or accdb /runtime seems to be better than accde /runtime & I am wondering if to do with references which were fine before. Its like all of a sudden 3 or 4 issues have surfaced when been fine for 2 years solid.

Still testing and think 1 step forward but 2 back but have a few ideas.

 

[bignose2]

Hi Again,

reminder: If FE running on PC A (also has the BE) & PC B (on wired LAN) tries to update anything it corrupts the BE on A.
(Been rock solid for many years before this)

4 days solid at this and going mad.

Just something I have discovered,
Different Tables Properties on the different BE's.
I have an older backup BE that DOES work.
FE does have a few tables, just for unique values for that particular FE.

Front End has "Read Only When Disconnected" (& no "Order By On")
If BE does NOT have "Read Only When Disconnected it WORKS OK??

FE still with"Read Only When Disconnected"
BE also has "Read Only When Disconnected" it Does NOT work.

Created fresh BE, imported from non ROWD database, exactly the same but now has the ROWD property & BE gets corrupted.

There may be some other reason when the data gets imported but I could understand problems if the FE & BE were different but it is when they are the SAME that I get the problems?

Tried on different PC's

The really confusing thing is I was getting these corruption issues I assume on the Pre ROWD BE and it was only trying to fix that I must have created a new BE & imported creating the new ROWD property.
I simply cannot follow any logic.

I think this ROWD i something to do with Sharepoint - I don't use.
Are all new office 365 databases created with this property.

 

[isladogs]

Front End has "Read Only When Disconnected" (& no "Order By On")
If BE does NOT have "Read Only When Disconnected it WORKS OK??

FE still with"Read Only When Disconnected"
BE also has "Read Only When Disconnected" it Does NOT work.

In 20 years of using Access, I have NEVER changed the ROWD property
The default has always been NO

Unfortunately I can't test this in v1803. I uninstalled it as the update caused another unrelated problem with Access interacting with IE.

Suggest you start the process of uninstalling 1803 but BEFORE implementing it, there is an option to setup an online remote support session with MS. Say yes to that and cancel the 1803 removal ... for now

OR just remove it - its takes less than 5 minutes - and see if that fixes the issue

 

[bignose2]

Hi,

That's the odd thing, I don't have the ROWD property on the working BE, never really noticed it before.

 

[isladogs]

Hi,

That's the odd thing, I don't have the ROWD property on the working BE, never really noticed it before.

Nor me. I had to search for the property before answering the question.
As I said, suggest you test your theory by uninstalling or getting MS to run a support session.
I was surprised at how quick & efficient doing that was for me.
The MS tech also told me to report my issue via the Feedback Hub - DONE
I think that will have more impact if they've also seen the issue on your PC ... if its the cause

 

[scott-atkinson]

I just hate it when my Backend gets Corrupted....

 

[The_Doc_Man]

OK, let's get esoteric for a moment.

First, you say that you are using hard-wired LAN. Great! But is it a domain-based environment or a less format network like officegroup / homegroup? I'm looking to the security issues, which differ between the two.

Second, whatever you are using to update your tables (i.e. form or query or direct table access) needs to be set up for Optimistic Locking on any action query or equivalent.

Third, if your settings differ between the two FEs, perhaps you should as a safety precaution log in directly to the BE and check the settings there, then refresh the table links for both FEs. Or (perhaps the better option if possible), make a fresh copy of the FE from a "developer" copy (... you DO have a developer copy, I hope?) and re-distribute the FE to both PCs so that you KNOW you are starting both FEs from the same page.

 

[static]

Maybe said already but worth saying again...

Take regular backups until fixed. A compact repair probably isn't doing anything except deleting corrupt data/record keys. So you most likely will be losing data without knowing it.

 

[bignose2]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply,

For years networking Workgroup, controlled by MasterBrowser & avoided homegroups as some advised, always worked well without. MS just depreciated MasterBrowser control so a few months back added HomeGroups to be on safe sidfe (The same folder sharing as before still visible) but now MS depreciated Homegroups!! on 1803 update just done. Networking still all works fine. I can see all PC & files folders etc.

I think 99% indicator network is OK I can access this PC A, BE from PC 2 FE and never a problem. I have a test loop and just adds data to a form updates & repeats. will do this 300 times no problem. 1 or 2 loops on the Bad BE & it corrupts. I also have working BE & that is OK.
It is ONLY when PC A FE is running also, usually just sitting idly.
You can use PC A as normal with PC 2 running as long as PC 2 does nto try to change anything. You seem to be able to view everything OK.

I have had this setup for prob nearly 10 years and never, ever had even one BE corruption. Even with network interuption, PC restart or something it just hangs, exit & restart & fine as if nothing had happened.

I have the FE master, decompile/recompiled. lots of copies. Exact same FE on the 2 PC'. Tried on 3 other PC's. All Windows 10.

I now have these 2 BE's.
The original backup works OK

If I imported all the tables fresh into a blank database
the resulting BE get corrupted when running.

As I said previous any new BE have the table property "Read Only When Disconnected" the old working BE does not.

The thing I have just found is the working BE has under
Info/View & Edit Properties/custom
DisplayAllViewsOnSharePointSite Value 1

The non-working BE don't
If I delete this from the working BE, it start crashing like the others.
However adding this to the non-working does not fix it.
This seems like an important indicator, of what I don't know.

The one thing that this reminds me of is year ago I installed MalwayreBytes, actually upgraded from v2 to v3 and this exact same thing happened. I uninstalled and was fine. I recently installed malwarebyes but uninstalled & even used there removal tool. However I have test on PC's that MAB has never been installed on.

Really have been at this for 3 days solid so tried hundreds of combinations.

Office just did a another upgrade & now can't see the option to uninstalled 1803!! No option to go back at all. Annoying can't now see a way to get remote assistance others have talked about (In uk anyway) so may not be available. Call back time 5512 minutes, ha.

I can usually sort these problems but begining to loose it now.

Trouble is the New BE is in use so I need to transfer this somehow, can't just stick with the old BE but also wan to know why anyway.

 

[isladogs]

I didn't read all your last post thoroughly but focused on the last part

Office just did a another upgrade & now can't see the option to uninstalled 1803!! No option to go back at all. Annoying can't now see a way to get remote assistance others have talked about (In uk anyway) so may not be available. Call back time 5512 minutes, ha.

I can usually sort these problems but begining to loose it now.

Trouble is the New BE is in use so I need to transfer this somehow, can't just stick with the old BE but also wan to know why anyway.

Office update won't affect the ability to uninstall 1803

To do so, go to Action Centre...All Settings...Recovery...Go back to the previous version of Windows 10
Click Get Started
You will be asked Why are you going back?
There is also an option to get support which I used
I chose 'Chat' to set up a remote support session.
This was to to avoid a long wait for a return phone call (7249 minutes now!)
I'm in the UK. Wait time was about 2 minutes! Maybe I was very lucky!

NOTE: From memory that 'go back' option disappears after 30 days

HTH

 

[bignose2]

Hi,
Thanks everyone for your help.
Spent another god know hows long & simply can't get this to work

HOWEVER, being really stupid I did not try putting the BE on a PC my itself & accessing from the FE on different PC's at the same time. Should have mainly for testing as did not really want as my main solution but is going to be for now.

This is working, have 3PC constantly running an update to the single BE on at a separate PC NOT running the FE. so far so good & certainly by now would have had problems.

Leads me to another question. Is it safe to put this BE on a NAS, very average synology DS312j. 2 good hard disks (bit old though) in protected mode (can't remember what its called but duplicates everything.
I have tested as above & fast & working well. of course all wired, I usually get 200-300Mbps from all PC's.
Will do lots of backups anyway.

I don't really want another PC running just for this.
but at the moment want a good/safe solution.
NAS seems to have various opinions onlines.


for ref. in all my testing I sometimes got it to work a bit, fiddling with references, I had 3 other PC's with fresh office installs & about 4 times I was sure I had sorted but when trying to implement properly would fail again & could never go back & replicate it working. In all my years never had anything so frustrating & confusing.
Tried MS support pre recovery option, Chat said as UK business 365 could not help, phone instead.. 5521 minutes! so I did not bother.

 

[Mark_]

RAID-1 Array?

(Redundant Array of Independent (inexpensive) Disks).

 

[static]

How many memo fields does the database have?

 

[bignose2]

Spoke too soon, again.
Data corruption on win 10 PC as the BE source even if not running the FE, if two computers on different part of network are accessing the same BE it fails.
IT IS WORKING with the BE on a synology NAS. so much testing now to be 99% sure (famous last words)
As suspected before it is something to do with the locking on a Windows PC but why now.

Quite a lot of memo fields, would take some counting, is a large database.

32 tables, perhaps 5 to 10 have memo fields, most quite short but need a little more than standard text field.

I do have one part that is quite demanding, I use it for email so I have a few large memo fields, RTF.

However been like this for years & all fine. nothing changed much.

The only thing that happened was 1803 big Window 10 feature update but this was a good few days before , I had not actually used for a few days around this time so hard to pinpoint but also think some office updates at this time. Also tried on fresh PC's.


Pre problem backups, did seem to be OK (although now even seem to have problems with this!!)

The problem I did import into a new blank database & that has been in use so need this current data.
Any new BE have this problem

One thing I did notice is the original BE did not have the "Read Only When Disconnected" in the table properties but all the new ones that cause the problems do.

Also it use to be replicated many years ago, actually not long ago I did remove a few tables that still had GUID etc (make table copy etc) but well before any of this.
I did notice in File/Info/View&Edit properties/custom DisplayAllViewsOnSharePointSite value =1. Not in any of the new BE.
If I deleted this it stopped working & fails in a similar fashion.

There are so many combinations of this I tried that l have lost the plot.

 

[isladogs]

So why not test whether the 1803 update is the issue.
Restore version 1709. It only takes a few minutes
You have up to 10 days to restore the previous build (1709) before it is automatically deleted

I've just done so again on my tablet - my problem solved ... for now ... till auto update kicks in again