British Prime Minister (1 Viewer)

Isaac

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Can anyone in England help me understand what is going on with Boris Johnson? (not the runaway hair ... the job status)
The TV headlines here keep making it like he is fighting for his political life, but when I delve into the stories, each so-called "scandal" seems to me as quite trivial stuff.

Like, some random staff member he hired was known to be a bit promiscuous (but isn't that considered normal there?)
Or, he went to a party during covid lockdown. (So did all our politicians and their reputation is none the worse for it).

It just seems like relatively minor things that should blow over, what's the BIG stuff considered to be? Is it what I have mentioned or different?
 

The_Doc_Man

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The British system has these "votes of no confidence" in their government. Boris just made it through one such vote but is losing support. As the Prime Minister, he needs a majority of the votes in his support in Parliament on one of these "no confidence" challenges or he's out of a job. There, that's all I know about that. Maybe one of our UK friends can fill in the blanks of WHY he's having such trouble.
 

Isaac

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Yes I've heard of those, and without deeply understanding the mechanics and practical usage of the N.C. votes, based on the name it seems like a sensible approach. It's just that in this country it takes a MUCH bigger scandal to remove a president. I mean, we have hard evidence on a verified laptop from the president's son that he sold his father's influence for millions of dollars and engaged in various forms of what most people would consider corruption. Even that wasn't enough! We had the Clintons, with a list of approximately 40 people who appear to have been "disappeared" ('suicide') when they came into possession of negative information on them. Even that wasn't enough, and that's enough to depose some authoritarian rulers.
It takes a lot to get rid of an American president, for better or worse.

In the UK it sounds like a relatively smaller scandal is taken more seriously. And that's a compliment to the UK I suppose.
Unless there's something I'm missing.

I also figured it might be nice to discuss politics other than American ones, wouldn't it? I'd rather become educated by hearing Brits talk about theirs and perhaps enjoy a bit of engagement myself rather than constantly beating the USA stuff. Or any country, really
 

Cronk

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In the UK government system, as with Commonwealth countries (Australia, New Zealand), the country is divided into electorates of approximately equal size of voters. Whoever gets the majority of votes in each electorate wins. The political party which has won the most number of electorates forms government and the leader of that party in parliament becomes Prime Minster. If the PM is seen to lose the support of those of his party in parliament, there may be a call for a vote as to who should be the leader of the party and the PM is replaced if he does not get the majority of votes.

The opposition can also call for a vote of no confidence in the PM or rather the government. Because the opposition has a minority of votes, such motions are unsuccessful but are used for political purposes.

Maybe the UK is more egalitarian but it is a very bad look if the government is forcing a lock down on the general populace and government members breach the lockdown rules with the PM sanctioning that.
 

Isaac

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Interesting. Can anyone call for a no confidence vote any time, or nearly?

As to your last explanatory comment, I would hope the US was the same way .. but when various high-level politicians (including the president) flouted the rules (as to masks or lockdowns), only half of our country cared, the conservatives.

If Boris Johnson has to leave, do you think the Conservatives will win again? Or are they the only party who can win in which case it is similar to a "primary" in the US - except the winner becomes prime minister, rather than just an on-ballot candidate?
 

Cronk

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Looks like BoJo is about to stand down, although he might continue in a care taker role in the interim. Better someone British comment on the Tories prospects for the next election. But they have been remarkably quiet on this topic so far. Maybe too polite to comment on their own politics. Where are you Col?
 

Minty

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The blustering buffoon has finally had to fall on his sword.
Rather bizarrely only after the Straw that broke the camel's back being that he "forgot" he was briefed about a whip he was appointing being unsuitable, but being Boris he still appointed him anyway.

He's been completely hopeless and out of his depth since his appointment, and like Trump managed to contradict himself on so many occasions he became laughable. There will be a lot of interesting "news" articles coming out over the next weeks and months I suspect.

There is a void over who will replace him.
 

Uncle Gizmo

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I just wondered if Pinchers name is another case of nominative determinism....
 

Jon

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It is hard to predict what will happen at the next election. Teresa May, who was the previous Tory prime minister, had a lead of about 18% over the the Labour party, according to polls. Then, 2 to 3 months later after a disastrous campaign, it was whittled down to something like 2%.

After the last Tory landslide election, all the 'experienced' political commentators were saying that this is a seismic generational shift, and that the labour party will be out of office for a very long time. But they completely overweighed the short-term emotion of the event and it clouds even the very best of political minds.

All governments build up problems over time.

My fear is that they will replace Boris - who is charismatic but a bit chaotic - with someone who is organised but with zero charisma. Teresa May is a case in point. It gets harder to elect someone you don't feel an affinity for.
 

CJ_London

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Problem is Bojo has made an ass of himself by allowing some of these things to happen and did not do anything about it or tried to cover it up as not being important (boys will be boys kind of attitude) or relevant to the problems of the day. He came with a certain reputation for doing this from his time as Mayor of London but that did not stop the population voting for him. He won his ticket on Brexit and got that done - could perhaps of been better if the remainers hadn't kept leaking the UK strategy to the EU and no-one anticipated covid or Ukraine and the resulting high inflation.

Much of the current hooray could have been dealt with at the time, but (particularly partygate) was not brought up at the time by interested parties on both sides of the house as they wanted to strike at a more politically vulnerable time.

Although there are a number of the voting population offended by the elite having parties while they obeyed the rules and stayed home, my perception is this is a small percentage and there are just as many, if not more who broke the rules anyway.

Bojo isn't perfect by any stretch but I cannot think of a single MP who would be a viable replacement. They may have the moral high ground but business does not get done by morals alone. I suspect there is a large section of the general population who still believe in Boris. The 'plotters' know this so want Boris out so the replacement has time to make a good impression and the population have time to forget Boris before the next general election. Basically the Conservatives are destroying themselves from within just as Labour did with Corbyn - and are still doing with Starmer.

Unfortunately politics these days seems to be more about them rather than doing the job of running the country well and effectively representing their constituency. I'm not suggesting snouts and troughs ('though I'm sure some of that goes on) and does not apply to all MP's but there is a hardcore who just seem to want to play politics and waste everyone's time and resources to do so.

Suspect the old adage of 'keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer' hasn't worked in this case as it gives the enemies access to all sorts of potential juicy stuff.
 

Jon

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Problem is Bojo has made an ass of himself by allowing some of these things to happen and did not do anything about it or tried to cover it up as not being important (boys will be boys kind of attitude) or relevant to the problems of the day. He came with a certain reputation for doing this from his time as Mayor of London but that did not stop the population voting for him. He won his ticket on Brexit and got that done - could perhaps of been better if the remainers hadn't kept leaking the UK strategy to the EU and no-one anticipated covid or Ukraine and the resulting high inflation.

....
A very good summary of the situation. And yes, people are hypocrites. The very same people who criticise the parties were probably doing something very similar themselves. I mean look at Starmer (the opposition leader), who was caught at a gathering, whilst criticising the Prime Minister for the very same thing. My personal view is neither should be doing these things, but they are minor things in relation to the issues that really matter for us all, like inflation, Covid, war, interest rates and so on. But nowadays we live in an outrage culture. We are all angry about everything!
 

The_Doc_Man

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My fear is that they will replace Boris - who is charismatic but a bit chaotic - with someone who is organised but with zero charisma.

I am somewhat distanced from your UK politics because we have a USA sideshow all our own. But your comment triggered a memory. In the movie "E.T. - the Extraterrestrial" there is a scene where young Elliot is getting off a school bus and gets the ultimate Dungeons and Dragons insult thrown his way - "Zero charisma." In that time period, D&D was wide-spread and that insult was HARSH. Particularly since the lowest you could roll in D&D was a 3 (based on 3 x a 6-sided die).
 
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ColinEssex

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It's important to remember that the leader of a political party will be Prime Minister if that party wins a general election. We have 3 main parties in the UK, Conservative (known as Tories), Labour and Liberal Democrats. The main two (Tories and Labour) usually win elections depending on the mood of the voters, of late it has been Tories that win.
As for Boris, he won with a massive majority over Labour who were struggling at that time with an ineffective leader and anti semitic views.So, Boris became PM. He sort of solved the brexit situation, then along came covid. It's generally accepted that the government was very quick to act in ordering vaccines (even though they hadn't been developed). He imposed lockdowns and various restrictions which we all adhered to. Even the Queen sat alone during Prince Phillip's funeral, yet at the same time, government ministers and staff were having birthday and leaving parties in 10 Downing St, the PMs residence. They were gathering in big numbers and were totally ignoring their own rules. The rule was no more than 5 people and it must be outdoors.
Boris stated in Parliament that no covid rules were broken. The golden rule is you never lie in Parliament and Boris was proved a liar. This was his downfall, he was fined by the police for breaking lockdown rules. There are other mitigating factors that showed he was not coping as PM.
Yesterday, he resigned as leader of the Tories (not as PM), which means he can stay on as PM until a new leader is installed, they will then be PM and Boris will step down. It may be the new leader will call a snap general election, but the tories still have around 2 years to run. Each Parliament is 5 years in power.
Col
 

Isaac

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How do they appoint a PM in between now and the (possibly 2 years) from the general election - does Parliament have the power to do that just by majority votes?

I learned a couple things today, "snouts in the trough" and nominative determinism.
I've always felt strongly about nominative determinism, but never knew there was a phrase for it.

Then again, when I think to myself "Yes exactly, all Steve's are like that", or "all Heather's are like that", I'm unsure if they really were shaped from the expectations (or other forces) surrounding the name, or if my mind is playing some other trick on me.

Thanks all for the explanations. I have a feeling that while we all know nobody is perfect, it's all too easy to use their imperfections against them in politics. The only remaining question of any genuine interest is "just how imperfect/naughty" they are.

That principle could be applied toward how people think of Boris Johnson himself, and he also may have applied it to Pincher by name, Pincher by nature.
The other complicating factor is that everyone sees various topics of deviance with varying degrees of seriousness.
To some a bit of "sexcapades" would be forgivable if nothing else were found, still others will tolerate what I would consider very dangerous philosophical leanings as long as no "sexcapades" are found - the problem is we all use a slightly different mental scale, and many view the others' scales as terribly off.

The "uncomfortable truth", as liberals call it, is that the societies which have found the most harmony are those who are bound to a moral compass by something, or someone, bigger than themselves and the trends or feelings of the moment...for better or worse.
 

Cronk

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The Tory MPs will elect a new Parliamentary leader and that person will become PM. From what I've read, there is no outstanding person and this may lead to a time of instability in the Tories as there is a jostling for power.
 

ColinEssex

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It is possible that the tory MP's may elect a new leader and therefore a new PM, but he/she may have a lukewarm reception, in which case there may be an early general election to let the people decide which party should govern. You can bet that the Labour Party will be pushing for that because the tories are currently imploding.
Col
 

Isaac

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This is all interesting. I've a hard time understanding some of the specific rules, it sounds a bit vague but perhaps the Brits politicians are more cooperative on informal levels, not entirely sure.

All in all I do hope we elect a USA President soon that we can be proud of, not JUST for their policies or JUST for their personality/persona but can't we be lucky enough to have both. Is it too much to ask.

Funny, we all know people all around us who are excellent, well informed people and would probably make fair and strong Governors if we could press a magic button and they were appointed tomorrow.

But it seems none of those people make it - or make it unchanged - to the upper echelons of power. We see 10 people vying to be leader of a country, and any one of us knows at least a dozen people twice as good as any of them.

Isn't it a shame.
 

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