COVID rules for thee but not for me (1 Viewer)

[moke123]

Some of the other doctors:

Dr. James Todaro may have a degree in medicine, but he’s pretty far from the frontlines of the pandemic right now. In fact, he hasn’t seen a patient since 2018, according to his own biographies online. What’s Mr. Todaro doing these days? He’s promoting bitcoin. Well, he’s promoting bitcoin and hydroxychloroquine, it would seem.

Dr. Daniel W. Erickson:

By the end of April, even Fox News’s Laura Ingraham had Erickson on to talk about his opinion on how to deal with covid-19, questioning the stay-at-home order in California. During another Fox News appearance in May, things took a weird turn when Erickson started spouting conspiracies involving George Soros trying to censor his message on herd immunity, according to the Washington Examiner.

Dr. Robert “Bob” C. Hamilton - a pediatrician

Dr. Gold:
Gold is “reportedly a Trump supporter who has advocated the use of hydroxychloroquine on Conservative talk radio and podcasts.” she had prescribed hydroxychloroquine to two patients with “good results” and believes that COVID-19 deaths mostly affect people who are elderly and have preexisting conditions, not working-age people.
On Twitter, Gold defines herself as “doctor-lawyer-writer-mom.” MD.com describes her as affiliated with Centinela Freeman Emergency Medical Associates in Inglewood, California. A representative of Centinela Hospital Medical Center told Heavy she is no longer on staff there.

Her own words she treated 2 patients.

Doesn't look like many of them are experts on pandemics.

Given that you have made a significant focus on religious beliefs of medical providers, I'm still very curious on whether or not you check your healthcare providers for Catholicism, Islam, or Mormonism. They have the same large amount of extra-terrestrial beliefs, which you claim factor in so significantly to their credibility? I'm just curious on whether/how you apply your own viewpoint on that, since a large part of your argument rests entirely on it.

I couldn't care less what religeon they are. I look at their C.V.
I certainly wouldn't see them no matter how qualified if they told me a magic 8 ball was a way to indoctrinate people into witchcraft or the government is run by reptillians.

 

[Isaac]

For my part I'm glad to get the opinions of people other than those with experience in the theories of pandemics. We need regular doctors from all walks of life (pediatricians, surgeons, GP's, and everything else) weighing in on what are the impacts of the proposed "solutions", rather than just covid, and rather than people who focus on nothing but pandemic theory.
Given the reality that COVID and the solutions to COVID are pretty much competing for who can do the most damage to everyone right now, it's the rest of the doctors who can actually speak to everything else. The things, by the way, actually affecting most of us...failed preventative treatment, no school, no jobs, financial ruin, isolation of family elements, isolation from broader social connections, mental health, postponed surgeries and treatments, etc.
I have no idea what makes you think doctors are less qualified because they are bitcoin investors, because they have political theories about democrats/republicans, because they are pediatricians, etc. I think you have this idea that doctors are not regular people...On the contrary, they are: Complete with their own idiosyncrasies, religious, hobbies, side businesses, obsessions/questionable behavior, and political beliefs, etc.

I certainly wouldn't see them no matter how qualified if they told me a magic 8 ball was a way to indoctrinate people into witchcraft or the government is run by reptillians

As far as this statement, if you really believe that you are successfully living that principle out, then I don't think you are well informed on how far and wide (and odd) all of the various religious beliefs out there actually are. If you would disqualify a doctor based on them saying a magic 8 ball was a way to indoctrinate people into witchcraft, then you clearly don't know that that would be a plenty common belief among Christians and other religions. The way it's been stated makes it sound extra weird, (which obviously is what the article you're referencing is trying its best to do, and I am counteracting that), but more likely that doctor is just the type of doctor who prefers not to let their kids play with toys that relate to supernatural darkness, devil, Satan, magic, etc - and that is an extremely common viewpoint among more than one religion.

I can do the same thing, if I wanted to. I could say hey, did you know that Dr. Fauci believes wine blessed by a man in a robe miraculously turns into the literal blood of a supernatural deity. Or at least he did until a few years ago, very well into adulthood and career, while he was a practicing Catholic, and half of his professional education came from strict Jesuit/Catholic institutions. Wow - that statement about the blood sounds really weird, doesn't it?! Oops - you better cross Dr. Fauci off your list, stay true to yourself here. Only you don't think about that, because Dr. Fauci does a polished and calculating job of professionally presenting himself.

You are falling prey to the silly mind game of articles listing out various statements and beliefs people mentioned, out of context I'm quite sure, and in the worst possible light, the majority of which are largely religious in nature (but you won't admit that because then you'd have to admit you don't really screen healthcare providers for any of that).

I welcome the increased diversity of opinion...we need to break out of our Fauci Fetish as a nation and allow other viewpoints in, including those who speak for other specialties relating to public well being and public wellness. I'd personally like to hear more from psychiatrists about how they weigh the costs of lethal COVID vs. lethal solutions.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I agree with Isaac that a variety of opinions is important. I agree with Moke123 that we should at least determine if an opinion-giver knows the difference between diamonds and dyspeptic dragon droppings. Because we have SO many opinions out there, you know, and there is an old saying about opinions.... "Opinions are like a$$holes. Everybody has one and often it stinks."

I would say that anyone who seriously must resort to miracles as a solution to the corona virus problem is someone I would not care to offer my attention. I remember my parents telling me stories about the "Great Depression" and how difficult things got for so many people. There were such things as "boarding houses" where you could rent one room and share the bathroom and get two meals (breakfast and supper). Mom lived in one for a while. Dad and his mom lived in circumstances that were not ideal but he had a job for a while because he had some artistic skills. The problem is that our fullest experience of that kind of deprivation is 90 years ago. Most of the people still alive now who survived that time were children. The data wasn't kept by computer either, so its integrity might be less than pristine.

We need to look at the economic fallout just as much as we need to look at the medical fallout. We have had pandemics before. I am not defending Trump for his insistence on trying to restart the US economy because the Great Depression gave us a lesson about what happens when you don't. Lots of deaths, suicides, acts of violence, starvation, and disease. So while DJT is about as abrasive as coarse-grit sandpaper, I can understand why he might wish to push things along on a ragged balancing act between economics and health. It is a tight-wire act from the word GO and I don't envy him the position he is in. I have zero confidence in the ability of the Democrats to restart the economy without permanently wrecking it because their method will SO badly devalue the dollar that even people with comfortable retirement plans will be damaged.

 

[Isaac]

I agree with Isaac that a variety of opinions is important. I agree with Moke123 that we should at least determine if an opinion-giver knows the difference between diamonds and dyspeptic dragon droppings. Because we have SO many opinions out there, you know, and there is an old saying about opinions.... "Opinions are like a$$holes. Everybody has one and often it stinks."

I would say that anyone who seriously must resort to miracles as a solution to the corona virus problem is someone I would not care to offer my attention. I remember my parents telling me stories about the "Great Depression" and how difficult things got for so many people. There were such things as "boarding houses" where you could rent one room and share the bathroom and get two meals (breakfast and supper). Mom lived in one for a while. Dad and his mom lived in circumstances that were not ideal but he had a job for a while because he had some artistic skills. The problem is that our fullest experience of that kind of deprivation is 90 years ago. Most of the people still alive now who survived that time were children. The data wasn't kept by computer either, so its integrity might be less than pristine.

We need to look at the economic fallout just as much as we need to look at the medical fallout. We have had pandemics before. I am not defending Trump for his insistence on trying to restart the US economy because the Great Depression gave us a lesson about what happens when you don't. Lots of deaths, suicides, acts of violence, starvation, and disease. So while DJT is about as abrasive as coarse-grit sandpaper, I can understand why he might wish to push things along on a ragged balancing act between economics and health. It is a tight-wire act from the word GO and I don't envy him the position he is in. I have zero confidence in the ability of the Democrats to restart the economy without permanently wrecking it because their method will SO badly devalue the dollar that even people with comfortable retirement plans will be damaged.

Well said.

Give me the "science" of a bunch of other things:
1. Covid infections, covid deaths, covid hospitalizations
2. Small town impacts of bankrupt businesses
3. Small town impacts of chain businesses shuttered/closed
4. Little kids being out of school for a year, where school was their only form of safety/protection/respite/reporting abuse
5. People losing their jobs - one of the most stressful experiences of an ENTIRE LIFE
6. Divorces because of all of this
7. Mental health, psychiatry
8. Churches and places of worship - many of which fed entire neighborhoods, closing down, with families in no place to socialize
9. Bars, where some people depended on their socialization - closed
10. Universities closed, where young people depended on it for moving forward in life with new friends, mentors, experiences.
11. Bankrupt business, peoples, couples, families.
12. The stock market in the US for the next 10 years because of this

Fauci has done his job, the best that he can do. Now give me the voice of those who speak for all the OTHER categories of life....other than just living/dying vis-a-vi the virus.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I saw an interesting chart yesterday. I'll try to find it for you. It shows the relationship between countries who used Hydroxichloriquine as an early treatment or prophylactic vs the countries that banned its use. It shows two clumps. Those with high death rates and those with low death rates. Do you really think thousands of people should die unnecessarily because of your hatred for Trump?

 

[Isaac]

Lot of interesting stuff about hydroxychloroquine on this page

Countries using hydroxychloroquine have low coronavirus fatality rate compared to countries that don’t, Association of American Physicians and Surgeons says - Tech Startups

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a non-partisan and non-profit professional association of physicians founded in 1944. According to the information on its website, AAPS has been dedicated to the highest ethical standards of the Oath of Hippocrates and to preserving...

techstartups.com

Trump is right to keep bringing it up and not let the conversation die. There is data that has been interpreted both ways. It certainly is not a settled "no".

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Sadly, that dichotomy of opinions tends to really add fuel to the anti-Trump side because they can cherry-pick the side that lets them dump on Trump.

The worst part is that it is perfectly possible for this kind of disagreement to occur. We have found many factors that seem to exacerbate the brutality of the disease and they are the type of thing that COULD easily be "regional" - i.e. works in one area, not in another. So when people look with their horse-racing blinders on, they don't see the other horses in this race.

If SOME people are helped by hydroxychloroquine, then let's supply them with it. If in other areas, it seems to be less effective or totally ineffective, ship it where it CAN do some good based on heredity or environment or sociological factors. If this drug can suppress the lung reaction that is one of the big killers that is part of COVID-19, great. A LOT of deaths are caused by respiratory failure, and if an anti-malaria drug focuses on the lungs, even if it does nothing else, palliatives have merit too.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Is anyone going to apologize? Is anyone going to even feel bad at dumping on Trump for suggesting it as an option once the truth comes out?

@Moke,
I don't care who Faucci is sitting between. He has scared the general public to death and he is not following his own RULES. Just because he tested negative the day before, means NOTHING. That's the way it works with disease. One second you don't have it and the next second you do. If he had already had the disease and tested positive for antibodies, that would be different. We could "assume" that he could not catch the disease again and therefore could not infect others.

 

[Isaac]

Lot of interesting stuff about hydroxychloroquine on this page

Countries using hydroxychloroquine have low coronavirus fatality rate compared to countries that don’t, Association of American Physicians and Surgeons says - Tech Startups

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a non-partisan and non-profit professional association of physicians founded in 1944. According to the information on its website, AAPS has been dedicated to the highest ethical standards of the Oath of Hippocrates and to preserving...

techstartups.com

Trump is right to keep bringing it up and not let the conversation die. There is data that has been interpreted both ways. It certainly is not a settled "no".

Some more interesting points of view, this time from a Yale epidemiology professor.
I'm not a big one for probably the majority of right wing conspiracy theories, but I have to say, it's very interesting how heavy handed some people have been with "pushing" this possible treatment down. You would think that if they actually WANTED the covid-19 situation to get better, they would be a bit more open. But Trump is right on this particular one: The Democrats need/want COVID to stay as bad as possible through the election. There's a reason why the top 10 articles on CNN are 100% pure covid, all day, every day. For the most part without regard to what the breaking news actually is.

'Don’t speak for me': Yale doctor battles CNN anchor over effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine

Yale epidemiology professor Harvey Risch and CNN host John Berman bickered over hydroxychloroquine on Monday during a heated discussion about the polarizing drug, which the president has hailed as a possible treatment for COVID-19.

www.foxnews.com