Disobedience (1 Viewer)

conception_native_0123

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Not to bring religion back into the forum or anything you guys, but I think this goes to show just how disobedient followers of the leaders are becoming....


Reminds me of the passage in one of the New testament books that describes the man of lawlessness. If there is no law in anything with regard to following the authorities, then I guess we're seeing the start of it aren't we? :-(
 

The_Doc_Man

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Ah, but first you have to decide that the church's viewpoint is correct before that disobedience becomes a bad thing. If same-sex couples are merely following their biology, then perhaps the church's view is quite wrong. Look at post #26 and then get back with me. But don't spew religion at me until AFTER you examined the articles I provided as evidence for my position.


If my leaders are stubbornly, repeatedly wrong and I know it, they should not be my leaders any more.
 

conception_native_0123

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But don't spew religion at me until AFTER you examined the articles I provided as evidence for my position.

If my leaders are stubbornly, repeatedly wrong and I know it, they should not be my leaders any more.
I'm not going to spew out anything at you richard. maybe I have in the past, but like I've said, we have an agreement. so, with that said, I read your post and took a look at the articles.

it iss no surprise to me that the articles found that science the way they found it. I look at that as nothing more than the human race turning itself around because it doesn't want to be "manly" and "take charge" or hold the reigns on life and do what needs to be done in order to carry on the earth. and I look at it that way because human reaction to hatred and hard-line or hard-nose behavior is very intense. they change. they change and do whatever they can to try and find love in their life. It's just the way it is. (think about reactions to corporate forcing of control of the Earth by people with sensitive feelings or emotions. that's a PERFECT example). humans don't change. but the other aspect of it, of course, is that humans evolve because they're humans. and because of that, they naturally become weirder and weirder. again, that's just the way it is, and gender identification and the changing of it is just part of that weirdness or expansion. I seriously doubt it can be stopped. not at this point anyway, because it is so prevalent in society.

in terms of God, the vatican's position, in summary, is that God's plan did not include these people doing these types of things. that's a loaded statement at best. the political hairs to be split regarding words like that is endless so it is pointless to debate something like that. at least in my mind. all I can tell you is that, as we get closer to the end, you can expect A LOT more of this stuff to come out, and some of the shit might get even weirder than we see today. it is all part of Satan's influence on the world. his presence is HUGE, and it infects the entire world. Peter's words are relevant here:
the devil prowls around you like a roaring lion

so, back to the point...this post really wasn't about the gender issue. It was more about people not following the rules and the world becoming more of a free-for-all. You do understand that part, right? Religion is a touchy subject for sure, and I don't know what the discipline or authoritative obedience is like with germans, but they should not be doing what they are doing while Francis and the current council are in charge. that is FOR SURE. I mean, my God, Peter tells us a long time ago to FOLLOW THE AUTHORITIES. it doesn't matter what walk of life it is in! police, government, the vatican, your own school or marriage, WHATEVER. don't ya think? without following the authorities, what the hell are we making of the Earth? obviously nothing more than one big pre-cursor to world war 50!
 

The_Doc_Man

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The original question referred to same-sex marriage, which occurs between homosexuals. When the authorities tell you to do something that harms another person because that person is born differently, then you should not exhibit obedience. Wrong is wrong. End of discussion. Your wall of text merely avoids the central fact that if the science is right (and I have no reason to doubt it), then condemning same-sex marriage does emotional harm to people who cannot help what they are and who do what their brains tell them to do.
 

conception_native_0123

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The original question referred to same-sex marriage, which occurs between homosexuals. When the authorities tell you to do something that harms another person because that person is born differently, then you should not exhibit obedience. Wrong is wrong. End of discussion. Your wall of text merely avoids the central fact that if the science is right (and I have no reason to doubt it), then condemning same-sex marriage does emotional harm to people who cannot help what they are and who do what their brains tell them to do.
well then I guess, we once again run into religion vs. science. and nothing can help that.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Not true. We can try to educate those whose religion gets in the way of reality.
 

conception_native_0123

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Not true. We can try to educate those whose religion gets in the way of reality.
ok doc man, don't anger me or we're going to havve a problem once again. =) I said NOTHING about the difference between REALITY and RELIGION. I said something about the difference between SCIENCE and RELIGION. talk about narratives....

you just showed the same attitude as the vatican. doing things to suit yourself. and you talked about ME doing it?
 
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The_Doc_Man

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Why should I NOT anger you,given the way you angered me in that other thread with your comments comparing "being born in the wrong body" with "brain on drugs"?

I said NOTHING about the difference between REALITY and RELIGION. I said something about the difference between SCIENCE and RELIGION.

Adam, science IS about reality. Science is the study of testable reality. You are attempting to divert this discussion by making a distinction without a difference as though your distinction had any substance.

Religion is the thing that has talking donkeys and snakes, burning bushes that are not consumed, and unsupported claims of afterlife. Religion is the realm of wishful thinking about immortality.

This thread was about how a church group defied the Vatican based on the Vatican's incorrect beliefs about the origins and reasons for same-sex marriage. Shall I explain how you are now evading the issue that YOU YOURSELF brought up?

it iss no surprise to me that the articles found that science the way they found it. I look at that as nothing more than the human race turning itself around because it doesn't want to be "manly" and "take charge" or hold the reigns on life and do what needs to be done in order to carry on the earth.

I'm not sure if you meant to say that, but this is not the human race turning itself around. This is finally finding an explanation for something that has been around for millennia. There is no "turning around." Homosexuality is a natural phenomenon that appears in humans and in animals. It has been discussed in the Bible, in Egyptian texts, and in old writings from cultures originating in India near the Ganges River - yet another one of the cradles of life. There is no change here. This situation is as old as humanity itself. You can try to use your religious-tinted glasses to look at it some other way, but science takes off the blinders.
 

conception_native_0123

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Why should I NOT anger you,given the way you angered me in that other thread with your comments comparing "being born in the wrong body" with "brain on drugs"?
once again, I meant about "being on drugs" being all about the human race advancing so much that wierd things will start to happen. religion will be phased out and proported as "nonsense" or "make believe" and science will substitute itself in place of it and claim that it is "reason". "reason over make believe". isn't that what you preach, dear friend? or enemy?

I'm not sure if you meant to say that, but this is not the human race turning itself around. This is finally finding an explanation for something that has been around for millennia. There is no "turning around." Homosexuality is a natural phenomenon that appears in humans and in animals. It has been discussed in the Bible, in Egyptian texts, and in old writings from cultures originating in India near the Ganges River - yet another one of the cradles of life. There is no change here. This situation is as old as humanity itself. You can try to use your religious-tinted glasses to look at it some other way, but science takes off the blinders.

so what should I make of this now? not sure where to go?
 

The_Doc_Man

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so what should I make of this now

What you should make of it is that we have finally found a "WHY" answer to homosexuality that shows (a) that it is not because of someone's adult conscious choice and (b) it is in fact quite often an inborn trait. Which means the Biblical admonitions on the subject essentially ask for the impossible. They ask people to go against their inborn nature, to go against a condition of birth.

Do you condemn left-handers? Do you condemn people with green eyes? Do you condemn people with phocomelia? (It's a birth defect.) To condemn people for something they truly cannot control is bad enough, but then to DEMAND that they deprive themselves of their preferred form of human companionship is extreme cruelty. Religious people ALWAYS make the same mistake. Yes, gay people have a choice. NO, it is not a choice to go "straight" - but rather it is the same exact choice that heterosexuals have. Do they or do they not practice their innate sexuality. THAT is the choice. Activity or celibacy? THAT is the choice.

Your original "being on drugs" comment, regardless of how you meant it, came across in a way that I found to be just flat-out wrong. (Could you tell?) As to "weird things happening" ... do you mean that we will suddenly advance far enough to start to understand things we didn't understand before, such that we will find OTHER things in the Bible that are wrong?

The most important admonition in the Bible, identified as such by Jesus, is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." All of the "behavioral" commandments ("Thou shalt not...." items) derive from it. So... do you want to condemn gays because they can't conform to your mental image of what humanity should look like or act like? Do you want to condemn their feelings of "being born into the wrong body" as just the result like being on drugs?

You are squirming on this one and you know it but that pride of yours can't admit that you might have overstepped badly.
 

conception_native_0123

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Do you condemn left-handers? Do you condemn people with green eyes? Do you condemn people with phocomelia? (It's a birth defect.) To condemn people for something they truly cannot control is bad enough, but then to DEMAND that they deprive themselves of their preferred form of human companionship is extreme cruelty. Religious people ALWAYS make the same mistake. Yes, gay people have a choice. NO, it is not a choice to go "straight" - but rather it is the same exact choice that heterosexuals have. Do they or do they not practice their innate sexuality. THAT is the choice. Activity or celibacy? THAT is the choice.

holy cow richard, you're incredibly sensitive! I NEVER said I condemned ANYONE. and said nothing about agreeing doing so. I think you've seriously just shown that you're pooling me in with a lot of the other christians of this world that DO do that. as a matter of fact, I don't even remember, just any of my previous incarnations, where I actually SAID I condemn anyone for it. maybe you got the impression for it, but why would I SAY anything like that? that would not be caring of me, now would it?
 

conception_native_0123

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You are squirming on this one and you know it but that pride of yours can't admit that you might have overstepped badly.
i have no problem admitting that pride has always been an issue for me because I suffer greatly from intellectualism. but that has nothing to do with this argument.
 

conception_native_0123

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Your original "being on drugs" comment, regardless of how you meant it, came across in a way that I found to be just flat-out wrong. (Could you tell?)
i've already clarified what the "being on drugs" comment meant. the "weird things happening" comment was all about human behavior changing in the future, even more so what it is now. I'm not sure what to tell you, but if facebook employs enough people where "71 genders" are included in their employee base, I think we can say that things are expanding quit a bit! WOW. I didn't even know there were that many pronouns in the english language!
 

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