Executive Privlege (1 Viewer)

[Pat Hartman]

So the Impeachment trial is underway in the Senate and the Dems are pushing hard to get the Senate to agree to call witnesses that they didn't call in the House. They made the decision to not call certain witnesses because Trump would invoke executive privilege and their requests would have to go to the Supreme Court for review and they claimed they didn't have the time. They had to get this done and it had to be done before Christmas. Of course, once it was done, it just sat for over 30 days in limbo while they tried to coerce the Senate into doing their bidding.

I'm not sure why the Dems think anything different will happen in the Senate if they can coerce them into calling witnesses. The President will invoke privilege, as he should, and the court will decide. But somehow now that Bolton's book is in pre-publication, he wants to talk and the Dems are salivating because they are certain he'll say something damaging to the President. I'm sure he will also. He's really pissed that the President fired him. I don't understand why the President hired him in the first place because Bolton has never seen a war he didn't want to be part of or a government he didn't want to overthrow and that has never been Trump's position. I also don't understand why we care what Bolton thinks of Trump. Do we need someone to tell us how we should think of the President? Are we not capable of making our own decision?

I am really bothered by the disloyal people who went to work in the White House and on leaving have no compunction against talking about what went on behind closed doors. Their first stop after their exit interview is a local publisher. How can a president make decisions if he can't say crazy stuff out loud? Haven't you ever been in meetings where people were encouraged to just say whatever comes to mind. It doesn't mean that you are going to act on the crazy idea. But you have to just say them because sometimes the thought jogs something that is actually reasonable. Think about how alone Trump is. It is horrifying to think about and I'm not even a fan. The longer he is in office the more I appreciate his integrity and work ethic. I even like a lot of his policies and I especially like his approach to foreign relations. His personality offends me also but I don't see that it interferes with anything except his relationship with the press.

 

[vba_php]

there's always *this*, Pat. Maybe he's gaining traction again?

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-mel...ollege-football-national-championship-1481999

 

[Steve R.]

The job of the Senate, from my lay perspective, is to evaluate the record developed by the House. According to the Democrats this record was "complete" and "overwhelming". Based on the House's "complete" and "overwhelming" record, it would not be the job of the Senate to call further witnesses. I have heard comments that it is not the job of the Senate to "fix' the failures of the House in conducting their impeachment investigation. Of course things are never that simple as there are always exceptions.

Since the House did not think it was worth their time to call certain witness during their impeachment investigation; calling them now would be inappropriate. The Senate should refuse to call additional witnesses. The Democrats should not be allowed to play the never ending game of more facts and more witness sence there will never be enough. Demoracts had their turn, they should not get another.

Some editorial comments. Nancy Pelosi attempted to bully the Senate by initially refusing to send the impeachment record to the Senate, unless the Senate made their (Senate) rules available. Next the House Mangers, who claimed to want a "fair" trial insulted the Senate by saying that if they don't convict Trump that they (Senate) would be guilty of a cover-up. All Senators should have felt outraged by this treatment. Finally, the House Mangers, who claimed to want a "fair" trial in the Senate conducted a very unfair partisan impeachment action in the House. The Democratic leadership has demonstrated a total lack of ethical behavior.

 

[Pat Hartman]

The Dems play the "more" game all the time. Just wait until we're counting the ballots in November and they keep finding "more" ballots, in people's trunks, in the bathroom, in the attic, and funny how these elections that were seemingly running in favor of the Republicans seem to flip once the Dems find enough missing ballots. Being in IT, I am absolutely appalled at the lack of controls over our voting process and paper ballots and now the Dem's want to do it over the internet!!!!! That's when we become Venezuela. The Dem's also refuse to allow the Census to count actual citizens because then we'd be able to tell that there aren't 120,00 citizens in Bridgeport, CT so there can't possibly be that many ballots. BTW, Connecticut now registers people to vote when they renew their driver's license and they don't ask for proof of citizenship. They just do it!!! How do I know this? One of my co-workers is a Canadian citizen and when he got back from the DMV and was looking at his license, he noticed he was registered to vote. To his credit, he went right back but how many people do?

I would love to have heard from more witnesses but the time for that was in the House and the House committee leaders totally blocked every witness the Republicans wanted to call. I think they didn't even turn over all the transcripts of the witnesses they did interview. They also blocked Republicans from questioning some of the witnesses plus they blocked Trump's lawyers from being present. Then, 4 days before they finished, they realized how bad that looked and magnanimously told Trump's lawyers they could participate. Trump being Trump, he gave them the finger.

Fair is whatever the Democrats say it is going back to Clinton's famous "it depends on what the meaning of is, is". i don't understand how Adam Shiff can stand up on TV three days a week telling us as if it were fact that trump is guilty. Each week, he's guilty of something different but it doesn't matter, he's guilty. American's are nothing if not fair and I think the Dems have over played this drama. People are seeing through it. The American public is not as stupid as talking heads like Don Lemon think they are.

One of the scariest things in America today is that if someone accuses you of something, you are automatically guilty! The Constitution be damned, the Napoleonic code is better. Off with their heads!!!! The Dems tactic of repeating lies day after day after day, has convinced many of my friends that Trump is the devil incarnate. One of my friends is no longer speaking to me because I couldn't stand it any longer and asked her since she is such a good Catholic, how could she justify her absolute hatred of Trump? Didn't Jesus teach us not to hate? I guess she isn't the Christian she thinks she is.

I spend a lot of time each week watching CNN and MSNBC. In fact, whenever Trump gives a speech or a press conference that I watch, I always listen to the talking heads on CNN and I always end up wondering if I was actually watching the same speech as they watched. Instead of talking about what he said, they "interpret" it for me and talk about what he actually meant. Trump isn't the great speaker he thinks he is so I never watch his rallies. The problem is worse with the impromptu remarks in press conferences because gets ahead of himself and leaves out words or says things in artfully which for other presidents, the talking heads would consider gaffs and make fun of him but for Trump, they turn him into a racist or immigrant hater or whatever evil intent they can possibly infer from his lack of clarity. Trump is better now than he was at the beginning but he's only been at this for 4 years where as professional politicians have a lifetime of practice. Every time Marco Rubio opened his mouth during the primary, all I could think of was, how much time did he spend in front of a mirror every day practicing answering random questions. He was far and away the most polished speaker on the stage in every debate but he was like a Stepford Wife.

 

[vba_php]

wow. that's quite a hell of a rant, Pat! I applaud your effort. =)

The American public is not as stupid as talking heads like Don Lemon think they are.

I've watched Don Lemon a few times, but I don't bother caring about the news much anyway. What I didn't know for a long time is that the guy is actually gay. Right along with good old Anderson Cooper. And speaking of Anderson, I absolutely LOVE this multi-round of giggling he did when talking about Gerard Depardieu's airplane incident...@2:25 - LOL!

One of my friends is no longer speaking to me because I couldn't stand it any longer and asked her since she is such a good Catholic, how could she justify her absolute hatred of Trump? Didn't Jesus teach us not to hate? I guess she isn't the Christian she thinks she is.

a lot of catholics have this problem, Pat, but then again so do a lot of other churches in the country. Every church has good and bad apples. Pope Francis is probably the most decent pope there's been in a while.

 

[Pat Hartman]

The church isn't teaching people to hate. CNN is teaching people to hate.

 

[vba_php]

The church isn't teaching people to hate. CNN is teaching people to hate.

I didn't say that. where did that statement come from!? and of course CNN does that. every news outlet does that, at least to some degree.

 

[Pat Hartman]

"Pope Francis is probably the most decent pope there's been in a while. " Not in my book. The man is a communist and should confine himself to fixing the problems of the clergy rather than giving political advice to the US.

"every news outlet does that, at least to some degree. " Then you are confining your viewing to the mainstream media. Fox is certainly biased but no talking head on Fox would ever call liberals evil. That's the difference between conservatives and liberals. To liberals, everyone who doesn't agree with them is not just wrong but evil. Conservatives just think liberals are ordinary people with bad ideas. Psychologists call your statement "projection". Ascribing your own bad thoughts or behavior to other people. You steal so you assume that everyone else does. You lie so you assume that everyone else does. You cheat so you assume that everyone else does.

Projection | Definition, Theories, & Facts

Projection, the mental process by which people attribute to others what is in their own minds. The concept was introduced to psychology by Sigmund Freud. In contemporary psychological science the term continues to have the meaning of seeing the self in the other.

www.britannica.com

 

[vba_php]

well to come to you Pat, the Lord cares not one thing about politics, thus it's irrelevant to me so you'll have to go back and forth with someone else on this one. I was referring to Pope Francis' desire to look out for the little people and the poor. Given his status and the fact that the moronic people of the world that are catholic put him up on a pedestal and worship him like a God, he does pretty well in being humble even though he's always subject to corruption. If you compare him to many other popes in the past, he's got a lot going for him in terms of being a valid representative of the true leader.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Catholic doctrine says that the Pope is infallible. Of course anyone who can read history would question this by just reading about the Borgia's but we are not allowed to. I'm not saying that all Popes are bad, just that some are worse than others. Being a caretaker of the poor is what ALL the clergy say they are. I guess it's a little like being a politician. You say what the people want to hear and many will believe you. This particular pope started out offending me with the sin of pride. As I'm sure you are aware, the Vatican is quite sumptuous and very well appointed. Pope Francis decided that the Pope's quarters were too fine for him so he moved into a hotel so he could live in more rustic conditions. If he didn't want to live with the soft bed and multi-million dollar artwork, he could have had the rooms cleared an replaced with a straw mat without making anything public. Instead, he had to be more moral than all the other popes and make the Vatican support him and his security and retainers in a hotel!!! That isn't my idea of a holy man. Does he ever criticize the Democrats for pushing partial birth abortion? No, he criticizes Trump for trying to close our borders to invaders. Murder is OK with him because it is being pushed by other Socialists and Communists.

 

[vba_php]

I guess it's a little like being a politician. You say what the people want to hear and many will believe you.

see my other response to you in the other thread.

This particular pope started out offending me with the sin of pride.

in a position as high as a POPE, it's almost impossible to not fall into the snare of seeming like you have too much pride. nothing can be done about it, as the catholic church hierarchy is huge and always will be.

As I'm sure you are aware, the Vatican is quite sumptuous and very well appointed. Pope Francis decided that the Pope's quarters were too fine for him so he moved into a hotel so he could live in more rustic conditions. If he didn't want to live with the soft bed and multi-million dollar artwork, he could have had the rooms cleared an replaced with a straw mat without making anything public. Instead, he had to be more moral than all the other popes and make the Vatican support him and his security and retainers in a hotel!!! That isn't my idea of a holy man.

if there is one top-level flaw the catholic church has, it would be that most ALL clergy, regardless of their level in the organization, are constantly seeking to climb the organizational ladder. and of course that's unfortunate. but I think you'll find that, if you go to virtually any other church in the world that has any significant amount of size to it, the same shit is happening there as well. the other ridiculous thing about leaders in the catholic church is that a lot of those bishops and cardinals were those STUPID hats and carry those septers (or whatever the hell they are), and the only purpose of that junk is to give them recognition. that pretty much goes against Jesus' rule about men showing humility and living humbly. but there again, you have the consequence of politics in any organization.

Does he ever criticize the Democrats for pushing partial birth abortion? No, he criticizes Trump for trying to close our borders to invaders. Murder is OK with him because it is being pushed by other Socialists and Communists.

I would not know, nor do I care. But if one gets to a pontiff level in a church like ours, those are the issues he's forced to address, because he's no longer a "level 1 agent". Now he's CEO. =(

 

[Pat Hartman]

Nobody forces the Pope to do anything but you can defend him all you want. We've deviated too far from topic so I'm done.

 

[vba_php]

Nobody forces the Pope to do anything but you can defend him all you want. We've deviated too far from topic so I'm done.

like all leaders Pat, I approve of some stuff and disapprove of others. same goes for the folks who lead my own parish. but back to the topic....

 

[Steve R.]

As the Roman Catholic Church has been mentioned. The Roman Catholic Church is only one of many Christian denominations. The Roman Catholic Church does NOT define Christianity.

 

[vba_php]

The Roman Catholic Church does NOT define Christianity.

ALL churches are flawed, Steve. the only reason is because many people did not understand Christ when he was here. thus, human ignorance came into play and different views were created. But then again, God saw this happening a long time ago so it is to be expected. I'm a rare case, in that I understand why it happened and deal with it appropriately. But it is a fact of life that all this stupid branching out is going to lead to war in the future, strictly because human beings become scared shitless when they are either told the truth, or don't understand something. it's nature.

 

[Steve R.]

I have no objection to the claim "flawed". My objection relates to when people want to use religion in a speech, movie, etc. It is usually in the context of citing the Roman Catholic Church as the authoritative source, which it is not.

 

[vba_php]

I have no objection to the claim "flawed". My objection relates to when people want to use religion in a speech, movie, etc. It is usually in the context of citing the Roman Catholic Church as the authoritative source, which it is not.

well the catholic church was the first one ever established, helmed by Peter. if you want a great example of someone who seriously missteps in congress by constantly quoting scripture and hoping for the best, take a look at James Lankford. congressional sessions are NOT the place to be doing that! those evil assholes care not one bit about sacred life. but he came from a baptist background, so go figure right? those views are seriously offbase.

 

[Pat Hartman]

To be clear, I was born and raised a Catholic so my criticism is from the inside rather than from the outside. You praised our current Pope. I disagree even though Catholic dogma says he is infallible. I was not criticizing all of Christianity or even Roman Catholicism. And if you think the various branches of Christianity are at war, you're mistaken. The last war between the factions of Christianity was during the reign of Mary Tudor daughter of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon in the 16th century. However, if you read the Koran, you will see that Mohammad preached that if we (non-Muslims) couldn't be converted or subjugated, we needed to be killed. THAT is the danger in the world today not the various factions of Christianity.

 

[vba_php]

And if you think the various branches of Christianity are at war, you're mistaken.

oh really Pat? then how do you describe these prophecies by Christ, when he described the end times to the followers??

And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved

I think YOU'RE the one that's mistaken, my friend. what christ is saying in those passages is that, in the last days, some of those people who claim to be christians will start to kill each other and turn against one another.

 

[Steve R.]

well the catholic church was the first one ever established, helmed by Peter.

False. The Roman Catholic Church did not emerge as a separate denomination until 1054. Which gets to the point that people mistakenly believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the (false) authoritative voice of Christianity.

PS: The "established" church in Western Europe was the Roman Catholic Church. As such they got to write "history". The Orthodox Christian denominations were overrun by Islamic expansion and did not get to write "history". Consequently, those in the West only heard the history as written by the Roman Catholic Church.