I don't blame the Democrats... (1 Viewer)

Jon

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Today, I thought I would nip onto CNN's website to see what they said about the immigration crisis on the border. When Trump was in power, they went on about the cruelty of "kids in cages" and the topic got heavy coverage. A picture was spread around the internet and went viral. "How cruel!" Well, the picture turned out it was from the Obama era, so that quickly went quiet.

Now, right in the middle of a pandemic, the cages are overcapacity by 1,000%. Pods designed to hold 70 are holding over 700. See video below:


So, I thought I would see CNN's angle on it. They were so outraged at what was going on under the Trump administration, so unless they were utter hypocrites, you would think their outrage would be consistent. Well, I couldn't even find anything about it on their home page! Instead, they had about 50 stories, including headlines like "Microaggressions' weigh heaviy on climbers' shoulders" and "Asian men's hairlines are receding faster than ever before. Here's why".

There you have it. Essentially, they don't really give a damn. They want to cover up a crisis, because they don't really have any empathy for those suffering on the border. Instead, Asian men's hairlines are the priority. This is just an extension of Biden's policy of censorship, cancel culture and covering up a mess by excluding journalists. He stated many times that he wanted to be fully transparent in his presidency, but coming from someone shown to have been a compulsive liar throughout his life, they were empty words. Prevent the journalists from seeing anything is the motto.

Given the above, I can understand why Democrat voters think the Republicans are evil and that Joe Biden is a saint. All they see is a constant stream of propaganda, fed by 90% of the US news channels who are no longer reporting the news. Instead, the news outlets are just extensions of the DNC. I wonder how many of these Democrat viewers actually know what is going on at the border. Or if they do know, they just nod along that it is just another example of Trump causing immigration problems by breaking the system. I've heard of confirmation bias but this is getting silly!
 
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Pat Hartman

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Silly, yes. Funny, no. I'm watching my country fall apart right in front of me 😭 😭 😭
 

FrankRuperto

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What would you do if you were President, deport them and they just keep returning?... Shoot to kill at the border?... There's no easy solution no matter who is President. Maybe all you Trump supporters should move to Texas instead of Florida and provide them boarding to alliviate the overcrowding.
 

Jon

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I would remove incentives and complete the wall. In fact the latter also helps with the former. There is already a system for legal immigration in the US. If you want to cheat your way into a country, while your countrymen are queuing up using the legal system, you suffer the consequences. Don't reward crime.
 

FrankRuperto

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I would remove incentives and complete the wall. In fact the latter also helps with the former. There is already a system for legal immigration in the US. If you want to cheat your way into a country, while your countrymen are queuing up using the legal system, you suffer the consequences. Don't reward crime.
Do you think removing incentives and completing the ultra expensive wall is going to prevent them from comming in?... Not even imposing a trade embargo on Mexico and closing the border at ports of entry has deterred illegal entry, so what next would you do?... How about we invade and occupy their homelands, make it safe and prosperous for them so they no longer feel the need to flee into the U.S.?... or maybe we should even invoke prima nocta, breed them out and assimilate them into our culture. We are good at nation building, aren't we?
 
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Jon

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Removing incentives is about reducing the numbers of people wanting to come. I don't think there is anything controversial about incentives incentivising behaviour. My understanding is that the wall is already paid for, so there is little further expense. The illegals coming in are ultra expensive too, estimated at $800 per child per night. Then add on legal processing of all these people and the costs are enormous.

The wall only became "offensive" because it was part of Trump's policy. If Democrats dislike walls, why didn't they remove the previous walls, or fences, whatever you want to call them? Why did Hilliary talk about needing a wall years before Trump got into power? But people who watch CNN as their main outlet never know about this type of stuff, because everything is carefully screened. This is the point of my original post.

Not even imposing a trade embargo on Mexico and closing the border at ports of entry has deterred illegal entry
Why do you say this? Maybe you know something I don't.
 
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FrankRuperto

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Removing incentives is about reducing the numbers of people wanting to come. I don't think there is anything controversial about incentives incentivising behaviour. My understanding is that the wall is already paid for, so there is little further expense. The illegals coming in are ultra expensive too, estimated at $800 per child per night. Then add on legal processing of all these people and the costs are enormous.

The wall only became "offensive" because it was part of Trump's policy. If Democrats dislike walls, why didn't they remove the previous walls, or fences, whatever you want to call them? Why did Hilliary talk about needing a wall years before Trump got into power? But people who watch CNN as their main outlet never know about this type of stuff, because everything is carefully screened. This is the point of my original post.


Why do you say this? Maybe you know something I don't.
None of what you say has worked, or would work. They will keep comming regardless, even if we make their homeland safe and propserous because everyone wants to be part of the "American Dream". I guess we have done such a good marketing job of selling democracy to the world that no one wants to live under a dictatorship. But freedom is only an illusion. No country is perfect, but having lived in 8 different countries, I have yet to find a country better than the U.S. to live in. BTW, $800/night times 2,000 children per day is $1.6M per day, not per year.
 

FrankRuperto

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The wall only became "offensive" because it was part of Trump's policy. If Democrats dislike walls, why didn't they remove the previous walls, or fences, whatever you want to call them? Why did Hilliary talk about needing a wall years before Trump got into power? But people who watch CNN as their main outlet never know about this type of stuff, because everything is carefully screened. This is the point of my original post.
Trump's wall wasn't offensive. What was offensive was Trump labeling all Mexicans as rapists, drug dealers, scum, etc... "Gee, that's excellent foreign relations, Trump... So that's what you think we all are?... Okay so I'm going to release all the one's I have imprisoned and help them cross the border... Hmm, how about I also invite some foreign terrorrists and help them cross the borden too?" Fidel Castro did the same thing back in the early 1980's... Remove the wall?... Does it make any sense to spend billions of dollars just to remove a wall because "Democrats don't like them"?... Since the UK left the EU, why don't you remove the chunnel? I watch both CNN and Fox, and they both carefully screen. when I get tired of watching the same ole crap, I switch over to sky and watch soccer, or the animal planet. Bottom Line, politics are evil, but I chose the lesser of the two evils, the Democrats. You have no idea how much trump has damaged the image of the republican party, but he will soon be convicted of his crimes. It has happened to other ex-Presidents in other countries.
 

Jon

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None of what you say has worked, or would work. They will keep comming regardless, even if we make their homeland safe and propserous because everyone wants to be part of the "American Dream". I guess we have done such a good marketing job of selling democracy to the world that no one wants to live under a dictatorship. But freedom is only an illusion. No country is perfect, but having lived in 8 different countries, I have yet to find a country better than the U.S. to live in. BTW, $800/night times 2,000 children per day is $1.6M per day, not per year.
I had already removed the offending line, but yes, that is per day. Half a billion a year!!

For me, I think it is important to not look at this as an all or nothing situation. It is about reducing numbers, not preventing every illegal immigrant, or saying "everyone" wants to go to America. That will only cloud thinking on this issue and is demonstrably false. If you reduce the numbers by taking a particular action, it is working. It is having an effect. Unless of course your definition of working means something else. I agree that people will keep coming, just like there will always be crime. Yet you can take the steps above to reduce the incentives. I sense you don't look at this immigration issue as a continuum upon which you can move the needle. Or am I wrong?

I don't think the Democrats are selling democracy when they talk about a deeply divided nation riddled with racism and inequality. Is Mexico a dictatorship? I know very little about the country.
 

Jon

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What was offensive was Trump labeling all Mexicans as rapists, drug dealers, scum, etc.
Can you provide a quote where Trump labelled all Mexicans as rapists etc? CNN keep misleading on this issue. I think many people want to set up straw-man arguments with Trump, where he says one thing, but it gets twisted into something else. It is called motivated reasoning and leads to a perversion of the truth.

Does it make any sense to spend billions of dollars just to remove a wall because "Democrats don't like them"?
The truth is that the Democrats have nothing against the wall. They just used propaganda because Trump made it a mainstay of his policy. They pivoted to attack Trump. To keep up maintenance of a border wall/fence and then suddenly attack the idea when a Republican gets into power is just disingenuous. I am sure you can see that.

Since the UK left the EU, why don't you remove the chunnel?
I am not sure that you understand the issues of Brexit. What has the channel tunnel got to do with Brexit?
 
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FrankRuperto

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I sense you don't look at this immigration issue as a continuum upon which you can move the needle. Or am I wrong?
People are people. They're going to do whatever no matter what established rules you can enforce. Not even 2,000 miles of border walls can prevent them from illegaly comming over. They dig deep tunnels under them to smuggle drugs and people, or fly over them with drones. How many agents would you need to properly secure 2,000 miles of border? Coercing the Mexican Govt under threat of economic embargo didn't work. So that leaves invading their homeland, occupying it, cleaning it up, nation building?.. Do we have the resources for such a mega project? Did we succeed in doing that with Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc?... Removing the chunnel was an illustration of how much it would cost to do so, and what would that gain.
I don't think the Democrats are selling democracy when they talk about a deeply divided nation riddled with racism and inequality. Is Mexico a dictatorship? I know very little about the country.
Regardless of Democrats or Republicans in power, the U.S. has been selling the democracy model since the signing of the Declaration of Independence. As I said before, total freedom is an illusion, all countries are dictatorships, some more than others. Republicans don't believe in racial or economic equality. They really showed the true weather of their souls these last 4 years with Trump and continue by trying to restrict voting rights, intentionally spread the covid virus, destabilise the U.S. so the nasty republican cancer must be removed one way or another.
 
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AccessBlaster

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During the Presidental debate, Biden made a critical blunder by inviting migrants to surge the border. He has single-handly destabilized the entire hemisphere.

Biden's nickname is the "gaffe machine" and this is no exception, elections have consequences. The dumbing down of the electorate has been ongoing for decades.
 

FrankRuperto

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You appear to have ignored Jon's request for clarification on what Trump actually said.
Trump said "They [Mexico] are sending the drug dealers, rapists, etc. etc...". I rememeber the video well, and I'm sure you all do, unless you chose to intentionally erase it from your memory, so what more evidence do you need?

The republican party has been radicalized ever since Newt Gingrich polarized them in 1994, and the rift will continue to grow to the point that we will eventually have another civil war. History repeats
 

Jon

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Trump said "They [Mexico] are sending the drug dealers, rapists, etc. etc...".
What was offensive was Trump labeling all Mexicans as rapists, drug dealers, scum, etc.
Do you believe the first statement is labelling *all* Mexicans as rapists, or do you think you made a mistake? I ask others not to chip in on this point until I get an answer.
 

FrankRuperto

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Trump and many Republicans are certified white supremacist bigots who are prejudiced against all Mexicans, Hispanics, Blacks, Muslims in America and abroad. They will be our Democratic allies when the civil war errupts, and again we will win.
 

Jon

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OK, you didn't answer the question again, so you realised you made another mistake.
 
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FrankRuperto

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Isn't that the goal? Remaking America in Karl's image.
He doesn't mean Karl Rove, he means Karl Marx, and we're not going to waste any time trying to compromise with republicans. We're going to give Trump and several conspirators a speedy trial, fulfill the agenda via executive orders, hunt down all domestic terrorists, and if needed use the military to squash any uprising and enforce the law of the land on any rogue state of the union.
 

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