I'm confused (1 Viewer)

swell

Member
Local time
Today, 17:59
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
35
G'day,
I'm confused I split my DB thinking that it would be safe from users fiddling.
I was shocked to find that the tables can be changed, if that happens the front end would/could have problems.

What am I missing and what can I do about the tables?
 

theDBguy

I’m here to help
Local time
Today, 09:59
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
10,225
Hi. One possible way is to password protect the BE.
 

The_Doc_Man

Happy Retired Curmudgeon
Local time
Today, 11:59
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
16,838
It is not enough to simply split the DB. You need to secure it. If you search this forum for the topic "securing a database" you will find a ton of good articles. Note, however, that if you have untrustworthy users, your solution will be a talk from a manager about interfering with company assets. Sometimes you can protect against clumsy idiots. But you will never protect against a determined hacker-type.
 

swell

Member
Local time
Today, 17:59
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
35
Just to make it clear this database is only going to be used by one user at a time on that users PC.
The user is a member of an association so the database would be passed to whoever is elected to the position to maintain the records.
So I can't see how a password would do the trick... I know that normally a DB is split so that the BE would be on a server.
I will try to hide everything give them the DB , these people are senior citizens so I guess all will be well-- till disaster strikes. :unsure:
Thank you for your replies
 

June7

AWF VIP
Local time
Today, 08:59
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
2,977
If database will not have multiple simultaneous users, isn't really necessary to split.
 

The_Doc_Man

Happy Retired Curmudgeon
Local time
Today, 11:59
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
16,838
If you are concerned about users "getting into" the database to diddle with it, rule number one is NEVER show them the inner workings. Everything must happen through forms. You NEVER show navigation panels or object browsers or raw tables. EVER. Read up on securing a database because that topic will be a part of it.
 

Micron

AWF VIP
Local time
Today, 12:59
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
2,793
If database will not have multiple simultaneous users, isn't really necessary to split.
Respectfully disagree with that notion. If split, fe can be developed or fixed while production version is in use. If a new deployment goes south, easy to fall back on the prior version without impacting data. Go back to a prior unsplit version and you lose all the data input since then, or at least you're looking at trying to mesh data, and that's assuming the messed up version can at least be opened. There is nothing to be lost by splitting a single user db but there certainly can be something gained.
 

June7

AWF VIP
Local time
Today, 08:59
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
2,977
If developer and user are same person, I don't see much reason to split - make a backup before doing any design changes. And even if they are different people, developer could make sure the one (and only one) user is not using. However, I agree that splitting does have advantages. Regardless, backing up should be a regular practice.
 

Gasman

Enthusiastic Amateur
Local time
Today, 17:59
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
5,773
As the developer and the user I have had the need to use a DB whilst in the midst of adding some new feature/code to the DB.
I cannot do two thing at once, so if split I can leave a half finished FE and enter data via the current FE, then return to developing the new FE.?

I would split the DB if I needed to develop further even if it was on the same local hard disk.

I do still have one DB not yet split and I am very careful with that. :D It is stil a mdb file originally created in Access 2003 (I think)

With all this lockdown, perhaps I should bite the bullet?
 
Last edited:

CJ_London

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Today, 17:59
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
12,093
The user is a member of an association so the database would be passed to whoever is elected to the position to maintain the records.
So I can't see how a password would do the trick...
the password is on the back end, not the front end, the user only has access to the front end and they would view the data through linked tables or other basis. They cannot edit linked tables. However a competent access user will know how to discover the password by looking at the properties of a linked table - so you need to obscure it in some way. All depends on how far you want to go.
 

The_Doc_Man

Happy Retired Curmudgeon
Local time
Today, 11:59
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
16,838
so if split I can leave a half finished FE and enter data via the current FE, then return to developing the new FE.?
As long as the FE change doesn't require a corresponding BE change, absolutely YES. I did this all the time when working for the U.S. Navy as a contractor.

However, after a while I switched to a more formal procedure to use a parallel developer directory with both a developing FE and a point-in-time copy of the BE that would never again see the light of day. That way, if you messed up the "dev" copy of the BE, you could just dump it and make another copy from the production copy.

The advantage there is that when I was ready to release the new FE, all I had to do was copy it to a staging area, relink the linked tables, and copy the relinked version to replace the master distribution copy. Relinking the relinked tables is easy because the linked table manager allows you to "Select All" for the relink. Usually this took me no more than about 5 minutes even with all the copies from point A to point B.
 

theDBguy

I’m here to help
Local time
Today, 09:59
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
10,225
Just to make it clear this database is only going to be used by one user at a time on that users PC.
The user is a member of an association so the database would be passed to whoever is elected to the position to maintain the records.
So I can't see how a password would do the trick... I know that normally a DB is split so that the BE would be on a server.
I will try to hide everything give them the DB , these people are senior citizens so I guess all will be well-- till disaster strikes. :unsure:
Thank you for your replies
Oh, sorry, I didn't notice this post. I agree with what CJ said. Password protecting the BE secures it because the use needs to know the password before they can change the table structure. So, if you don't tell them what the password is, then they can't change the tables. And as CJ said, not knowing the password to the BE doesn't stop them from using your database because they will be using the FE to access it anyway.
 

MickJav

AWF VIP
Local time
Today, 17:59
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
1,832
I spilt all mine now but also have a complete second copy BE/FE as a design platform then once I'm happy I update the BE of the of the working system

and with my main system I added something to show me what BE/FE i was using.

2020-04-05 (6).png
 

swell

Member
Local time
Today, 17:59
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
35
After splitting the database I find that this is not a suitable solution for this application.
Unless I am missing something, every-time the FE and BE are moved to a different directory, pc etc the tables links need to be updated everytime.
 

vba_php

Forum Troll
Local time
Today, 11:59
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
2,884
But you will never protect against a determined hacker-type.
you are telling us, richard, that a low-level user of an ACCESS database would KNOW how to hack into it? I would think that would be HIGHLY unlikely. based on the type of users access usually has, I would doubt that this could happen. but it depends on *what* they are interested in hacking into and for what purpose.
 

vba_php

Forum Troll
Local time
Today, 11:59
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
2,884
I will try to hide everything give them the DB , these people are senior citizens so I guess all will be well-- till disaster strikes. :unsure:Thank you for your replies
based on your forum avatar, I would've guessed this would be for seniors. ;) if it is senior citizens, I'm not even sure why you're worried about security. How much could 70 and 80 year olds know about software, seriously?
 

CJ_London

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Today, 17:59
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
12,093
Unless I am missing something, every-time the FE and BE are moved to a different directory, pc etc the tables links need to be updated everytime.
correct - but this can be automated

Microsoft advise best practice is to split the database - at least for serious users. Plus, your issue was 'I was shocked to find that the tables can be changed, '. Which can only be solved by splitting, so not sure why you consider it not suitable
 

MickJav

AWF VIP
Local time
Today, 17:59
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
1,832
If you download any of my Templates the master would be best each has a link manager that pops up if a backend can't be found I've used it for nearly 20 years

Keep safe mick
 

Micron

AWF VIP
Local time
Today, 12:59
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
2,793
every-time the FE and BE are moved to a different directory, pc
Is this a frequent occurrence? I would have thought the be location would be somewhat permanent.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top Bottom