Mask vs Corona virus. Wear or Not. (1 Viewer)

[Sun_Force]

China’s main TV station just now interrupted its normal broadcast to announce a news about Japan’s recent experiments on validity of using mask.

Tokyo University has completed an experiment on validity of using mask against covid-19. It’s the first experiment ever done with actual covid virus (for testing masks)

The experiment has been done in two phase,
1- If only virus carrier use a mask (and the healthy person has no mask.)
2- If virus carrier doesn’t wear a mask (and a healthy person wears a mask)


I’ve seen many members here deny to accept wearing mask can help preventing get infected. I’ve seen more posts on instagram and tweeter how some United States citizen are fighting over this simple fact.

Most of Asian countries’ infection and death rate is in a much better situation than others. 98% of Chinese, 86.5% of Japanese, 84% of Korean wear mask.

Not trying to prove anything, or to say which side is better, just thought you may want to read about this research.
You can google it too.

Japan researchers show masks do block coronavirus, but not perfectly

Japanese researchers showed that masks can offer protection from airborne coronavirus particles, but even professional-grade coverings can't eliminate contagion risk entirely.

www.reuters.com

 

[AccessBlaster]

I’ve seen many members here deny to accept wearing mask can help preventing get infected.

I can't recall members "deny to accept wearing mask". I have read that you don't wear a mask to protect yourself, you wear it to protect others from YOU!

I Think Dr. Anthony Fauci said something like that.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I make the following observations. The masks are nothing new, these disposable masks have been worn by medical professionals for many years. This begs the question, why would a doctor, a nurse wear a mask before covid was even ever heard of? That's a rhetorical question, they wouldn't wear them unless they were pretty sure there was some protective measure, most probably for themselves.

 

[pbaldy]

My feeling has been that the mask is not a perfect solution, but that it improves my odds. Some say the virus is small enough to get through, which I'm sure it true, but it will still stop at least some of the water droplets carrying the virus. My wife is somewhat high risk and my step daughter is high risk, so we're being pretty careful.

I don't think it's accurate that "most" in the US fight the mask. I think those that do just get the attention of the press.

 

[Vassago]

Every actual study has shown that wearing a mask helps prevent YOUR OWN saliva particles from potentially spreading the virus. It's a lesson on integrity. Do you care enough about the people around you to protect them? I have a high risk family member in my home. It means the world to me that most people care. It's also opened my eyes to some who I thought would care more.

There has also been more recent studies to indicate that people who wear masks and end up infected end up having a less severe case as the viral load is lessened to a degree by your own mask.

So, it's a win win. Wear a mask. Please please please wear a mask. You have no idea how much it means to me and my family.

 

[Sun_Force]

can't recall members "deny to accept wearing mask".

Then my misunderstanding. I thought posts like this thread (specially under science says....) is some kind of denying.

https://www.access-programmers.co.u...den-be-the-next-president.312871/post-1709377

 

[AccessBlaster]

I'll let Pat comment on her post. Thanks for the link.

 

[Sun_Force]

I don't think it's accurate that "most" in the US fight the mask. I think those that do just get the attention of the press.

Thanks for mentioning. I corrected my post from most to some.

 

[Isaac]

@Sun_Force: Good to have you here.

I've been quite open to reading information purportedly from "both sides" of this debate, and I have also accepted the likelihood that most probably, when everyone (or majority) wears masks, it does indeed slow the spread of the virus. So I support the wearing of them.

However, I've also heard a lot of information from medical experts who remind us that this isn't actually going to do anything other than slow the spread of what is going to be 100% inevitable spreading of a virus until either herd immunity is reached, vaccines, etc. etc.
Obviously, I still like the idea of "slowing" it--especially since we are in the process of getting the vaccine. So I support mask wearing.

I think majority of people are at least "ok" with it. Much bigger question has to do with lock-downs. I agree with people like Trump and conservatives who have observed that generally speaking:

1) The harm of lockdowns, relative to the benefit of them, has been vastly mis-calculated by many authorities. (Although it's likely that they embrace the political benefit which comes to them from continuing to harm economy as much as possible--we all know how incumbents do the worse the economy is).
2) People who have encouraged us to pay attention to experts - but only one kind of expert, rather than all the experts who can help us quantify the harm of the lockdowns - are ignorant at best, willfully malicious for political gain at worst. I heard an elderly man testify a few months ago:

"It's nice that everyone wants the lockdowns to protect people like us, but they misunderstand the things I value: I don't WANT to leave a financially ruined nation to my children, leaving them in chaos and poverty for the next 20 years. If I die it's not the end of the world. If we ruin the entire world economy to the point of no return for the foreseeable future--that matters much more."

The doctors' job is to give us advice that best predicts medical things. Their job is not to make the final decision for us which must take into account one hundred other factors involving our well being and future--Anyone who thinks otherwise has forgotten why we elect Generalists to run a country, not Medical Doctors.

 

[Vassago]

1. It's important to slow he spread as much as possible. The hospitals are getting overwhelmed in the US right now because people seem to have stopped caring. Particularly the younger crowds throwing college parties in the college towns by me caused huge spikes.

2. Herd immunity likely won't be possible. Not all viruses are created equal. This is a coronavirus, similar to the common cold. We are already seeing cases where people have caught it twice after the immunity wears. The good news is, you body can learn to fight it for future infections. Secondary illnesses so far have not been as bad.

This is a PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS. IT'S NOT POLITICAL. What good is it for the market when 10% of the customers and employees die? When the hospitals are overworked and overwhelmed, it will get worse. I'm so sick of hearing people turning this into politics. It's ignorant.

In either case, wearing a mask does not stop the economy. If anything, it improves it by helping to negate some of the need for lockdowns. Why even bring then up when we are talking masks?

 

[Isaac]

I agree with you on masks.
Do not think there is anything wrong with discussing both.

 

[Vassago]

I'm more focusing my frustrations at the crowd that complain about the economy yet also refuse to wear masks and adhere to guidelines. It's idiotic. Trump is the leader of that crowd with his refusal to wear his mask and listen to the experts on how it spreads. If you want the economy open, f**king listen to them. @$$hole. -- that's regarding Trump, not anyone here.

 

[Jon]

However, I've also heard a lot of information from medical experts who remind us that this isn't actually going to do anything other than slow the spread of what is going to be 100% inevitable spreading of a virus until either herd immunity is reached, vaccines, etc. etc.

I think there is lots of faulty thinking going on in the medical community. To say that masks aren't going to do anything except slow the spread of something that is 100% inevitable, is like saying don't bother going to hospital for anything because we are all going to die anyway. The slowing of the spread is precisely what you need, since it buys you time for a) vaccines and b) therapeutics c) understand how to reduce infection risk. Consequently, it reduces death and illness.

Regarding the masks, I've always been an advocate. But let me take a different angle. They say that if you wear a N95 mask, you cut down the number of corona particles received by 95%. That means you only receive about a billion such particles. Don't you only need a few, since they multiply? Could this be an argument for the futility of masks? Infections aren't like medicines where you get a dosage, the higher the dose meaning the higher the response, because they use our own bodies are virus factories. Perhaps you only need a few particles and you are kaput!

 

[Isaac]

To say that masks aren't going to do anything except slow the spread of something that is 100% inevitable, is like saying don't bother going to hospital for anything because we are all going to die anyway. The slowing of the spread is precisely what you need, since it buys you time for a) vaccines and b) therapeutics c) understand how to reduce infection risk. Consequently, it reduces death and illness.

I don't agree. to say that "masks aren't going to do anything except slow the spread", is to say just that. It is not to add, "don't bother going to the hospital, nor, don't bother wearing masks". It's just a point that I was making and I also additionally made the points that you have said which is that it buys time for a vaccine and treatments so I think we just said the exact same thing...

Trump is the leader of that crowd with his refusal to wear his mask and listen to the experts on how it spreads

I do have that same frustration with Trump. I think that is probably the only thing that I do blame him for with the virus and I think he should have handled it better and differently.

I'm still voting for him, but of course like everyone, I believe neither candidate is perfect or even remotely close, and him not encouraging people to wear masks is definitely one of the things on my list of his flaws.

 

[Isaac]

different angle. They say that if you wear a N95 mask, you cut down the number of corona particles received by 95%. That means you only receive about a billion such particles. Don't you only need a few, since they multiply? Could this be an argument for the futility of masks?

You say that's a different angle, but I actually see it has pretty closely connected with the point that I was making that you were critiquing. Hence the point that it doesn't eliminate the spread, it only slows it down..

 

[Jon]

You say that's a different angle, but I actually see it has pretty closely connected with the point that I was making that you were critiquing. Hence the point that it doesn't eliminate the spread, it only slows it down..

How is it the same?

 

[Jon]

I don't agree. to say that "masks aren't going to do anything except slow the spread", is to say just that. It is not to add, "don't bother going to the hospital, nor, don't bother wearing masks". It's just a point that I was making and I also additionally made the points that you have said which is that it buys time for a vaccine and treatments so I think we just said the exact same thing...

I think you have been selective in what you said. Firstly, "aren't going to do anything except slow the spread." That suggests the person is saying it is pretty futile. Otherwise, why put in there "aren't going to do anything"?

Consider these two statements:

a) "If we give you this medicine, it isn't going to do anything but cure you."

Compare that with...

b) "If we give you this medicine, it will cure you."

See what I mean?

Secondly...

...of what is going to be 100% inevitable spreading of a virus until either herd immunity is reached, vaccines, etc. etc.

100% inevitable is also suggesting it is futile, because it will happen anyway. When you combine "it isn't going to do anything" with "100% inevitable", you get a meaning that is different to what you are saying it means, IMHO. You don't always have to be explicit to say x = y. You can also be implicit.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I do have that same frustration with Trump.

I like Trump, even with all his faults he has something which I cannot define.

I don't believe that he is fundamentally republican or democrat, I think he is something in between, something created by the business world he comes from.

He is always looking to make the headline, and he doesn't care whether the headline is good or bad, he just knows it's good to be headline news.

So he's canny and understands the media and how to manipulate it to his own benefit.

 

[Isaac]

How is it the same?

A few particles allowed means it still could infect you, but probably less likely.

The net effect slows, but doesn't entirely stop, the spread.

Or let me put it another way. Then what would you say was your point about the few particles and the masks? You already said you think masks are needed, so what do you think is the effect of your pointing out that masks still let a few particles through?

What is the one other possible choice in between "not working" and "fully working" ?

 

[Vassago]

It's not just less likely to infect you. It's less severe. Does anyone read my full post? Lol

Yes, viruses multiply... But your body begins fighting immediately. Less viruses in = less to multiply, potentially a LOT less. You'll get less sick of you're body doesn't have to fight as hard.

Wearing a Mask May Reduce How Sick You Get from COVID-19

New research suggests that wearing masks not only protects others from the spread of COVID-19, but may reduce the amount of virus that gets through to the wearer as well, resulting in less severe illness if they do become sick.

www.healthline.com