Republican Candidate's Debate (1 Viewer)

Libre

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I had harbored a secret hope that at the Republican Candidate's debate last night, the Donald was going to show us his more thoughtful side, his philosophical side, his strategic side, his crafty side, or his Presidential side. I had hoped that because, as many other US Citizens, I am dog-tired of the same old, carefully phrased but ultimately meaningless rhetoric that we constantly hear from the same old politicians. Like Tweedledum and Tweedledee, one can stand in for the other and nobody would even notice a difference. And if one happened to get caught making a statement or proposing an idea that upset somebody, he would spend the next month apologizing for it.

Then, bursting upon the scene, here comes a successful businessman who comes right out and says it, to Hell with who's offended, and who almost never backs down or apologizes. Unfortunately, when there is no substance to back up the bluster, what you wind up with is a blowhard bully who is clearly out of his depth if the discussion becomes any more nuanced than simply who is going to kick who's butt. Not that any of the other jokers - uh, I mean candidates, had anything of value to offer either. The best comment was by Marco Rubio, who in so many words (that I bet he would like to retract) predicted a victory by Hillary Clinton. Actually, I was amazed to see that Chris Christy, came out of it looking the best, and with very little air time. He came out the best not because of what he said, but because nothing he DID say made me want to bury my head in the sofa – unlike EVERY SINGLE OTHER CANDIDATE!

When Christy comes out on top of anything you know there's a problem.
The Republican candidates range from laughable to scary to terrifying. Whatever you may think about 2 term President Barack Obama's administration and policies, at the very least he has conducted himself with intelligence and grace, has addressed we citizens with something approaching sincerity, has delivered on many of his major promises, and has managed to hold it all together when it looked like it was all about to fly apart.
In 5 years from now you will look back at his Presidency with growing admiration.
In 20 years, he may be revered.
In 100 years – forget it, if we haven’t made it to Earth2 by then.
 

Frothingslosh

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The best comment on the debates that I've seen yet was this:

Somehow the Democrats won the GOP debate last night.

Personally, when it comes to the election, I'm feeling the Bern. ;)
 

ColinEssex

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Not being an American, I find it difficult to understand what is going on. Especially when the person with the lower vote count can become president.

What did Trump mean when he said "America has no time for political correctness"? I was under the impression Americans adhered to that thought anyway.

Does Trump wear a wig? If not, what has he done to his hair?

Will he make a good president? I think it'll give the world the best laugh since Dan Quail.

Col
 

Steve R.

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Especially when the person with the lower vote count can become president.
Technically, the US is a Republic, not a Democracy. You will have to read-up on the US Electoral College.

What did Trump mean when he said "America has no time for political correctness"? I was under the impression Americans adhered to that thought anyway.
Political correctness. In short, rational discussion of certain topics in the US is no longer tolerated. In a very real sense, the McCarthy era has been resurrected by the progressive left in the US.

For example, those who believe in same sex marriage are considered enlightened notable leaders in terms of advancing civil rights. However, those who are opposed to same sex marriage are denigrated and vilified as retarded buffoons who are promoting hate speech. To be opposed to same-sex marriage is politically incorrect. Not only is it politically incorrect but "obstructing" it may subject one to adverse legal action.

Whatever you may think about 2 term President Barack Obama's administration and policies, at the very least he has conducted himself with intelligence and grace, has addressed we citizens with something approaching sincerity, has delivered on many of his major promises, and has managed to hold it all together when it looked like it was all about to fly apart.
Obama is well on his way to becoming the worst President in US history. He has a long history to twisting the truth and misleading the people of the US. As one example, the ACA was sold to the US electorate based on lies and deceit. Gurber, provided the smoking gun for that. Obama also claimed that one can keep existing medical plans and doctors which turned out not to be true.

Obama’s Iran speech deceit

Weighing Obama’s caustic speech
 

Libre

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Obama is well on his way to becoming the worst President in US history. He has a long history to twisting the truth and misleading the people of the US. As one example, the ACA was sold to the US electorate based on lies and deceit. Gurber, provided the smoking gun for that. Obama also claimed that one can keep existing medical plans and doctors which turned out not to be true.

After all the deliberate deceptions through the years - The Pentagon Papers, Vietnam, Watergate, Iran-Contra, GWB's outright criminal invasion of Iraq under totally false pretenses, resulting in hundreds of thousands of casualties and perhaps trillions of $$ spent to avenge his dad - these are all secondary to Obama mistakenly saying that everyone can keep their existing medical plans when as it turned out (not known at the time by BO) not everyone could.
This, to you, is the most insidious destructive lie in the history of US Presidents, making BO potentially the WORST president in US History.
Fascinating.
 

Steve R.

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One example out of many. Obama is simply following in the lying traditions of others. Go ahead. Cite all the lies of prior administrations, you won't see me defending them. But Obama is now the President and he continues to purposely mislead the public. The sum of his transgressions may exceed all the example you mentioned. That makes him just as villainous as those you cite.

Obama refuses to enforce immigration laws. Several illegal immigrants, who have been repeatability deported and repeatability re-entered have committed heinous crimes. The Obama administration, for example went after Arizona for trying to enforce federal immigration laws, but when it comes to sanctuary cities purposely evading federal immigration laws, the Obama administration looks the other way. The Obama administration can't cherry pick which laws to enforce and which laws not to enforce.

Obama claimed to cut-off Iran's capability to produce a nuclear weapon. Obama did not, it was an outright lie. At best, Obama delayed development of a nuclear weapon by Iran for perhaps 10 years.

Obama, through his feckless foreign policy facilitated the rise of ISIS. The resulting human misery is appalling.
 
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Libre

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Interesting take on the subject, Steve.
Let's just say that two people can hear the same thing said by the same person at the same time, and arrive at wildly different interpretations of what that person meant; whether they were expressing a desire, a hope, an expectation, or if they were making a promise or a guarantee.
For one thing, I never heard any promises from Obama or Kerry about what the Iran deal would include and what it would not. We knew what we WANTED. In a negotiation you don't get everything you want. That's not a negotiation. What I did see was Kerry emerging from the negotiations at the 11th hour saying we had a deal and then proceed to outline the terms of the deal. I didn't hear anything approaching the so-called lies that you are (in my opinion unfairly) attributing to them. I suppose we could starve them or bomb them into submission - if that's what you're suggesting we should be doing.

There is a lot more I could write about immigration, past presidents, Obama's record, and all that. Personally I find the contamination of the Animas River more disheartening than anything else right now.
 
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Frothingslosh

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The feckless foreign policy of helping rebels in Syria rather than declaring war and invading? That feckless policy? The policy that has been the US standard since the Cold War?

I still am fascinated that your arguments for "Obama is the worst president in the history of the US" come down to "Was wrong about what the insurance companies would do in response to the ACA" and "Did not invade a foreign country and massacre millions of people".

To you, those are worse than
  • Selling weapons to a rogue nation known to support terrorism in order to gain off-the-books money to give to Nicaraguan rebels in direct violation of US law.
  • Invading a nation for personal or religious reasons, lying to the American public to do so, resulting in the deaths of thousands of American soldiers, wounding of tens of thousands of Americans, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, the wounding of God-knows-how-many Iraqis, and the destruction and fragmentation of Iraqi government, society, and civil services.
  • Getting 50,000 US soldiers killed in Vietnam because the President refused to fight the war to win.
  • Imprisoning over 100,000 American citizens without trial simply because they were Japanese.
  • Destroying any remaining vestiges of goodwill toward American by attempting to order the rest of the world around.
  • Abusing the power of the office to violate every campaign law out there (and quite a few others) in order to improve his chances of getting re-elected.
  • Forcing through a law that criminalizes disagreeing with the President.
  • Conquering and annexing any number of foreign territories (and even nations) in order to add them to the US. (Includes both Hawaii and the American Southwest.)
  • Using the American Department of Justice to launch countless raids on "leftists", resulting in thousands of arrests based wholly on political stance, and hundreds of deportations.
  • Overthrowing multiple governments (including, as in Guatemala, democratic ones) because they favored the USSR, replacing them with incredibly brutal dictatorships.
  • Having the FBI assassinate political activists such as Fred Hampton.

I fail to see how 'Misjudging how political opponents will react' and 'Did not unilaterally start a war' are so much worse than all the things listed above, but then again I'm not a Rand-spewing right-wing Fox News Conservative, so I use reason and logic rather than "RARR DEMONCRATS SOLD DEYR SOLES TO SATEN!!!". I guess by whatever twisted reasoning you use, those points above are far less negative than 'Failed to predict a response' and 'Didn't want to kill people. Personally, I will continue to say 'Getting thousands of people killed is far, far worse than misjudging a political consequence.'
 

KenHigg

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I had harbored a secret hope that at the Republican Candidate's debate last night, the Donald was going to show us his more thoughtful side, his philosophical side, his strategic side, his crafty side, or his Presidential side.

That's exactly what you saw - :confused:
 

Steve R.

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Our respective sides have been presented. I am sure each side can present a ton of "facts" which each side will dismiss. Thanks for the discussion.
 

Libre

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So as I was saying, Jeez that Donald Trump.
 

Frothingslosh

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Hey now, women squirting blood out of their eyes and whatever is a serious, serious issue!
 

KenHigg

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Repeating this somehow seems to make you as much as an oaf as dt...
 

Frothingslosh

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And Ken once again proves English needs sarcasm punctuation.
 

KenHigg

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You mean we need some kind of symbol we place at the end of a sentence to indicate it was meant to be sarcastic? - If thats not what you meant then Im lost -
 

Frothingslosh

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You mean we need some kind of symbol we place at the end of a sentence to indicate it was meant to be sarcastic? - If thats not what you meant then Im lost -

Yes, that was precisely what I mean. My Trump comment was 100% sarcastic, but apparently it fell afoul of Poe's Law.
 

Libre

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Yes, that was precisely what I mean. My Trump comment was 100% sarcastic, but apparently it fell afoul of Poe's Law.

Is that the law that states that if a dismembered heart is hidden under the floorboards, and the police inspector pays a visit, that the heart will begin beating thunderously loud?

Or was that the one that says murderous orangutans invariably make their getaways through the chimney?

Or was it the one that says large black birds will tap the hell out of your window on dreary winter nights?

Or is it the one that states that my sarcasm will be missed by SOMEBODY who will assume that my above questions were serious?
 

KenHigg

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Pardon me while I google that...

Nah, I knew you were being sarcastic. Just that the whole quote type thing you posted is a bit in bad taste, when i heard dt say it and when you repeated it. Like when a young kid repeats bad words he hears at school...

Edit: You two are quite the tag team, neither one seems to know what you are talking about
 
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Frothingslosh

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Ah, yes, because the only possible approach to idiocy is to treat it with all seriousness. Humor, mocking, and sarcasm apparently aren't allowed in Ken's little world.
 

KenHigg

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Seems if we get on dt for making off color comments we are are just as bad if we repeat them, sarcastically or otherwise. Silly me for trying to raise the bar. Some of us never learn I guess...
 

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