The "Bart" Drive (1 Viewer)

[Uncle Gizmo]

Another attempt at creating an em Drive is named the BART drive because some of its components look like Bart Simpson's hair!

The EmDrive Just Won't Die

More than 20 years after its introduction, the EmDrive is still being tested in labs around the world, including DARPA. But the controversial thruster's do-or-die moment is quickly approaching.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[Steve R.]

Congrats. You beat me too it. I was contemplating starting a new thread along the lines of "Speculative Science", but I had not figured out a catchy click bait title.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The ultimate test of that will be some sort of experiment analogous to chemistry's "bomb calorimeter" experiment that eventually was used to totally destroy the "phlogiston" theory. In essence, the law of conservation of momentum is being applied because someone thinks that whatever momentum is, it can be contained in the shell of that device. The microwaves almost certainly can be. But the fiber optic loop will be the thing that nails it. If they can prove movement, they can measure energy loss and try to balance that against movement. Conservation of energy would say that the energy lost by the loop should be proportional to the energy required for the fiber movement. And the control would be a long fiber cable with the same amount of energy flowing through it, to compare "natural" energy loss vs. loss in the loop when it moves.

 

[Jon]

Didn't NASA confirm some propulsion from the Em Drive?

 

[Steve R.]

This story has a long history behind it. A Mythical Form of Space Propulsion to be Tested (Again). John w. Campbell, the long-time editor of Analog, had a keen interest in researching this drive.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Didn't NASA confirm some propulsion from the Em Drive?

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

At time index 5min he suggested you could use this to create a perpetual motion machine.

I don't know why he said that. It's definitely not anything like perpetual motion because you have to put a lot of energy into this to make it work, perpetual motion is where once it has started moving it does not need an energy source to keep it moving, it keeps going forever.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Yes, since there will inevitably be losses due to imperfect reflections inside the cone, that energy loss prevents this from being a perpetual motion machine. Even if it were a perfect reflector (which might not be physically possible anyway), the energy of motion drawn from whatever the effect is, simply cannot be free. But I posted that because he pointed out that NASA hadn't totally dropped the idea. They are not sure WHAT is there but they must think SOMETHING is there. Something worth at least a little bit more investigation.

 

[Steve R.]

Scientists Just Killed the EmDrive

After failing critical thrust tests, the "impossible" engine has proven to be just that.

www.popularmechanics.com

Obviously a flawed article since the article claims that "scientists" proved the concept to be wrong. Clearly this is a case were were the unknown "they" want to suppress the development of radical new technologies. Since science is consistently evolving (Dr. Fauci's various Covid recommendations being one example of this evolving process of what is true today, may not be true tomorrow.), the EM Drive will be back. Long live the EM Drive!!

 

[Steve R.]

Things are not looking up for the EmDrive.

Scientists pinpoint source of "impossible" EmDrive's thrust

In 2014, no less an authority than NASA proclaimed in peer-reviewed papers that it was getting mysterious thrust from the EmDrive, a strange, brassy trumpet of a thing that its creators claimed could produce thrust with no propellant. NASA's findings replicated 2009 experiments in China. A…

newatlas.com

“We found out that the cause of the ‘thrust’ was a thermal effect," Tajmar told Grenzwissenschaft-Aktuell.de. "For our tests, we used NASA's EmDrive configuration from White et al. (which was used at the Eagleworks laboratories, because it is best documented and the results were published in the ‘Journal of Propulsion and Power’. With the aid of a new measuring scale structure and different suspension points of the same engine, we were able to reproduce apparent thrust forces similar to those measured by the NASA-team, but also to make them disappear by means of a point suspension."

"When power flows into the EmDrive," he continued, "the engine warms up. This also causes the fastening elements on the scale to warp, causing the scale to move to a new zero point. We were able to prevent that in an improved structure. Our measurements refute all EmDrive claims by at least three orders of magnitude.” The team presented its results at this year's Space Propulsion 2020+1 conference, which was held online due to the pandemic.

 

[Steve R.]

Well, you had to know that his was coming!!!

The EmDrive Isn’t Dead Yet ... Says the Guy Who Invented the EmDrive

Yes, the "impossible" engine failed critical thrust tests. But that was always going to happen, this scientist claims.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

IT'S DEAD NOW!

The ultimate test of that will be some sort of experiment analogous to chemistry's "bomb calorimeter" experiment that eventually was used to totally destroy the "phlogiston" theory.

You are correct as usual Richard! The culprit being thermal expansion of the measuring equipment:-

Scientists pinpoint source of "impossible" EmDrive's thrust

In 2014, no less an authority than NASA proclaimed in peer-reviewed papers that it was getting mysterious thrust from the EmDrive, a strange, brassy trumpet of a thing that its creators claimed could produce thrust with no propellant. NASA's findings replicated 2009 experiments in China. A…

newatlas.com

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Oops! I see Steve R already got it!

Funny it should resurface in my news feed right now!

 

[Steve R.]

IT'S DEAD NOW!

You must not have watched horror movies or even super hero moves much. It's NEVER dead!!! Sequel soon.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Here's a new candidate:-

A 150-Year Old Idea Could Lead To A Breakthrough In Space Travel

Conventional spaceships burn rocket fuel to achieve escape velocities, maneuver, and even land, but what if you could build a spaceship that runs entirely on electricity?

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Steve R.]

Keep theorizing. Eventually something will work.

 

[Isaac]

once it has started moving it does not need an energy source to keep it moving, it keeps going forever

like Trump's tweets?
ha ha, a little self-deprecating joke for my own side there.

i like the gray font part of your sig

 

[Steve R.]

Hear we go again:

EXCLUSIVE: The 'Impossible' Quantum Drive That Defies Known Laws of Physics was Just Launched into Space - The Debrief

The Quantum Drive, which seemingly defies the known laws of physics, was just launched into space this past weekend.

thedebrief.org

The company's webpage was a little short on detail.

IVO Limited – Welcome To The Future

ivolimited.us

Since posting, I located this article. Still no explanation of: "An Alternative Theory of Inertia".

An Alternative Theory of Inertia will Get Tested in Space

This summer, the first all-electric thruster will be tested in orbit. This technology could revolutionize commercial space as know it!

www.universetoday.com

This thread parallels: New Room Temperature Superconductor, LK-99: Genuine Breakthrough or Scientific Hoax?

 

[Steve R.]

Controversial Quantum Space Drive In Orbital Test, Others To Follow

The new drive promises unlimited space maneuvering without propellent. Skeptics say it violates the laws of physics. Will a successful space test change their minds?

www.forbes.com

IVO are not commenting on the project until they get results, but even if it the test is completely successful, skeptics are unlikely to be convinced.

Seems the only new "news" tidbit:

Roger Shawyer, who developed the original propellentless EmDrive, believes that even a make-or-break test will fail to sway doubters.

So - the EMDrive is still alive??????