the debt ceiling (1 Viewer)

conception_native_0123

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has anyone been following this news? apparently if it's not raised by sept 30th, millions could lose social security bennies and medicare/medicaid bennies. is that true? i'm sure the evil ones in washington dc, despite their evil ways, surely don't want people to starve to death!
 

Isaac

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Sounds like a situation where a family has racked up 50,000 in credit card debt and is near bankrupt. Let's say the husband is the problem spender, the wife is not nearly so. The husband wants to get ANOTHER credit card. The wife does not want him to.

The husband says: Sorry, honey, but the way I've set up the finances, if I don't get another credit card, the kids will go hungry tonight.

Who's the bad guy in that situation?
 

Isaac

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There's no great solution to the IMMEDIATE problem, although I think the Republicans have struck a reasonable compromise: Force the Democrats to raise it by themselves, which they DO have the votes to do, in order to make a longer term point about how ridiculous it is for our government to keep getting bigger, trying to buy its way out of the life choices of every human being on the planet. And occasionally spending money on something worthwhile by accident in the process.

I heard three billion for Tree Equity, I'm just sayin' ...
 

The_Doc_Man

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i dont get it. sorry.

You WILL get it - when the tax bill finally comes in and Papa Joe realized he spent so much that he COULDN'T just tax the rich people, he had to tax the poor people too.

Having worked for the government indirectly, I can tell you that this is just a pile of one-upmanship at its stinkiest. One party or the other says "There is not enough in this spending bill for my people" OR "There is too much in this bill for your people." So the great Congressional pissing match starts up, headlines are made, political capital is wasted, and eventually, someone says, "Oh, all right. We'll trim a little here, boost a little there. OK?" And at some point everybody feels like they did their part so they pass an outrageous spending bill.

In the interim, non-essential government workers get furloughed but essential workers continue to work and get paid. Because I was usually considered "essential" due to it being military support with deployed troops, I rarely got furloughed. Some non-essential spending goes on hold. But after everyone cleans up after the pissing and posing match, all the stuff that was suspended gets reinstated anyway.

In the greater scheme of things, it is all political theater.
 

Steve R.

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The debt ceiling is just another "door" for political grandstanding. The obvious thing for responsible leaders is to reduce spending so that the debt ceiling is not "broken". But, in usual fashion, the political leaders falsely claim, with great sanctimony, that the money has been obligated and that we are facing the apocalypse if the debt ceiling is not raised.

A couple of significant side issues with this story:
  • The US no longer has a credible budget. The concept of having a printed budget that the government would more or less adhere to seems to have died with the Obama administration. It's possible that the concept of a budget started to "die" with the Bush administration. But Obama "officially" killed it with his "National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform". Another example of a commission installed purely for the political optics where the conclusions are then simply dismissed. So, instead of having a unified budget, Congress now passes discrete series of continuing resolutions.
  • Proposals have been floated for an Constitutional amendment to require a balanced budget. Well, as the debt ceiling fiasco points out; we already have a piece of paper that "requires" that the government live within a defined debt limit. Given that, Congress should be proposing revenue collection and spending allocations so that the debt ceiling is not broken. Another new piece of paper requiring a balanced budget will NOT make Congress responsible. They can act responsibly if they choose to. They don't.
 
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NauticalGent

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Smoke and mirrors. It can't be fixed and it will never get better.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Actually, it CAN be fixed. But fixing it means cutting spending in a way that is political suicide for whoever does it. And it requires that the people of the USA stop looking for handouts.
 

HillTJ

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I live in Australia, we have a huge (per capita) and spiralling deficit, so clearly the Govt is spending more than it earns through it's passive income stream & not helped by record spending on anything covid related. On the news, they talk about huge "borrowings", so whom do we borrow from?. I've never understood this. Printing money, which we are doing in record amounts is not "borrowing" to me, so who's handing out the cash & where did they get it from? Clearly, i'm missing some fundamental economic concept!
 

Steve R.

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When the people discovered they could vote themselves entitlements thru elected officials that was the beginning of the end.
Franklin and Tocqueville introduced this train of thought many years ago. Attributed to Tocqueville is the phrase: "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.”

US citizens are being "bribed" by the politicians. Democrats have made it more profitable for a person to get "free" money by staying home and receiving government welfare than going out to actually work for the money. There is no longer any pretense of rationale federal spending being limited to the federal revenues received. Perpetual deficit spending continues unabated. The demise of the American Republic may be materializing.
 

AccessBlaster

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Franklin and Tocqueville introduced this train of thought many years ago. Attributed to Tocqueville is the phrase: "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.”

US citizens are being "bribed" by the politicians. Democrats have made it more profitable for a person to get "free" money by staying home and receiving government welfare than going out to actually work for the money. There is no longer any pretense of rationale federal spending being limited to the federal revenues received. Perpetual deficit spending continues unabated. The demise of the American Republic may be materializing.
"It was Augustus who introduced the constant free grain dole to the City of Rome, but in contrast to earlier handouts, this was not sanctioned by law, but a simple gift from the first citizen."
 

HillTJ

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We've go the same going on, seems that a spiralling deficit makes no apparent difference to our way of life. Our Govt is giving record amounts of money away so much so, that many small businesses have difficulty in attracting staff. It's not worth working for many as they earn nearly as much money by not!. It's a real problem, exacerbated by the money given out recently that people have become accustomed to & it is political suicide to recind. I'm thinking now that it's only numbers and doesn't seem to matter.
 

Isaac

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....Until the people of the USA stop wanting handouts.....

Precisely well said. I said in an earlier thread somewhere that at some point, someone needs to start teaching people that US citizens just may have gotten a little LAZY. Nobody wants to say it, offenses would be immediate, widespread, and massive.....Or maybe just the first and the last of those...................But the point is, if we could actually inspire people to SOMEHOW become a bit more independent (going back to those days) - even just a little, we could reduce our spending and babysitting drastically.

That Frenchman had some really good observations about the USA ... I love his writings. "Bribe the public with the public's money", gosh, what a way to say it - makes it sounds exactly like the ridiculous arrangement that it is.
 

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