The Northwind 2 Project (1 Viewer)

JMongi

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I don't have enough experience to say much. So, first off, THANK YOU! The type of work needed to accomplish this type of project is quite extensive. Thank you for putting in the time and the rest of the team involved!
 

GPGeorge

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One of the things that could be helpful would be a wide range of testers down the road, i.e. feedback from those more towards the novice end and from the advanced user end of the experience scale, so please don't rule out the possibility of contributing.
 

AccessBlaster

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My favorite version of Northwind Traders came with Office 2000. The orders and orders details were simple and easy to understand, without all the fancy layouts and other distractions. For me less was best!
 

JMongi

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That's the one I learned on back in the day. I will say it was easier to understand that version with my knowledge at that time, then it is understanding the current NW with my greater knowledge now. Fancy layouts are nice (I like to learn how to make fancy layouts!) But, if the methodology used to create those layouts doesn't match with the advice you will get from a forum such as this one, well, then that makes learning very difficult.
 

Cotswold

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It's an old safety habit some of us use when remodeling an existing table schema. If a field will probably be dropped or modified, rather than physically delete it and swear at yourself later when you change your mind, you rename it that way. Once the final design is settled, "z____" stuff can be safely deleted. It also helps expose places in forms, queries, etc. where that field might have been used. They break immediately so, again, you can decide whether you really can drop or change the field, and where else you have to make changes.

I know there are also tools to analyze accdbs to find such usages. In this case, it's primarily the first reason.
On the same tack, I use the # which drives an item to the top of the list out of the way. If it is a test or temporarily not used it has the # prefix. If it subsequently is used I remove the #. I also use the # prefix for filenames in Explorer to flag a temp or can delete file. Anything with an old date and the # I can delete without worry later.
 

CJ_London

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rather than physically delete it and swear at yourself later when you change your mind, you rename it that way.
if you still have autocorrect on then renaming it will adjust queries and forms accordingly. Safer to copy/paste and rename the copy with a z prefix, then delete the original
 

isladogs

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The other day I updated my Web article https://www.isladogs.co.uk/memory-lane/index.html.
It now acts as a review of 30 years of Access with screenshots from all Access versions from 1.0 onwards through to the current day together with a list of the main changes in each version. I've also included screenshots of the different versions of Northwind as part of the article

I believe there have been 5 previous versions of Northwind as supplied with Access 1.0, 2.0, 95, 2000 and 2007.
So I reckon the new version should really be called Northwind 6.0.
The article also shows changes made to photos of supposed Northwind 'employees' such as Nancy Davolio in versions 97 & 2002.
 

GPGeorge

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Thanks, Colin. I'll bring that up with the rest of the team, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the version being changed. To be honest, there are much more difficult nuts to crack and no big hammers available to smash them.
 

isladogs

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No need to do anything.
In fact Tom VS has already seen the web article and is now aware of all the previous versions of NW
 

GPGeorge

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FWIW. I am also aware of at least three versions of the SQL Server version, AdventureWorks.
 

isladogs

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I have 2 different copies of Adventure Works ...though like Northwind I've never made much use of it
 

Cotswold

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We very much appreciate that feedback and suggestions. Not every idea can make it into the end result, of course, but the more we hear from working Access Developers, the more likely we are to hit the right notes.
Hello GPG, I have a suggestion but am unsure where I should post for it to be passed on, so I've put it here. Although not directly about Northwind. If new users could set their code out in a more readable format, it may well help them. Sometimes VBA code in Access just looks like a mass of jumbled words, which is then far from easy to read in 12 days or 12 months time.

It is that in Access you cannot align your code to improve readability. The following code snips hopefully show what I mean:

Code:
In a simplfied example this is how Access formats the codein its own sloppy way

        If Forms!F10Main.OneID10 = True Then     '
            Me.fVoyageFrom = DLookup("[BoundFrom]", "Voyages", "[ShipName] = '" & [Param107] & "'")
            Me.fShipType = DLookup("[ShipType]", "Ships", "[ShipName] = '" & [Param] & "'")
            Me.btnAdd.Enabled = False: Me.btntnAdd.Visible = True: Me.btn17 = 0: Me.btn21 = 77
            Me.btnDelete.Enabled = False: Me.btnDelete.Visible = True: Me.btnUserNoSet = 0: Me.btnDepot = 0
            Me.btnRefresh.Enabled = False: Me.btnRefresh.Visible = True: Me.fInvNum = mLastInvNo: Me.fRate = 0
            Me.btnSet.Enabled = False: Me.btnSet.Visible = True: Me.CustID = mCustID: Me.fVAT = 17.50
            Me.btnReCalc.Enabled = False: Me.btnReCalc.Visible = True
            Me.btnPrinter.Enabled = False: Me.btnPrinter.Visible = True
            Me.btnExit.Enabled = False: Me.btnExit.Visible = True
        End If

At times due to the varying lengths of variables Access code can look a real jumbled mess.


In other langauges we can format code as follows to make it far easier to read.

       If Forms!F10Main.OneID10 = True Then
            Me.fVoyageFrom        = DLookup("[BoundFrom]", "Voyages", "[ShipName] = '" & [Param107] & "'")
            Me.fShipType          = DLookup("[ShipType]",  "Ships", "[ShipName]   = '" & [Param]    & "'")
            Me.btnAdd.Enabled     = False  : Me.btnAdd.Visible     = True  : Me.btn17     = 0           : Me.btn21    = 77
            Me.btnDelete.Enabled  = False  : Me.btnDelete.Visible  = True  : Me.btnUserNo = 0           : Me.btnDepot = 0
            Me.btnRefresh.Enabled = False  : Me.btnRefresh.Visible = True  : me.fInvNum   = mLastInvNo  : Me.fRate    = 0
            Me.btnSet.Enabled     = False  : Me.btnSet.Visible     = True  : Me.fCustID   = mCustID     : Me.fVAT     = 17.50
            Me.btnNext.Enabled    = False  : Me.btnReCalc.Visible  = True  : me.fAccCode  = mAccCode
            Me.btnPrinter.Enabled = False  : Me.btnPrinter.Visible = True
            Me.btnExit.Enabled    = False  : Me.btnExit.Visible    = True
        End If

The basic problem is that you cannot tab or space the ':' Newline. Neither can you space out to align the '=' to force code into more readable lines. The cause is the fact that Variables and Expressions are not often the same length. So the code snakes down the screen.
The only part of any Access code you can position along a line is a notes line prefixed with the ' which isn't helpful in showing 'tidy' code
 
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GPGeorge

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Hello GPG, I have a suggestion but am unsure where I should post for it to be passed on, so I've put it here. Although not directly about Northwind.
It is that in Access you cannot align your code to improve readability. The following code snips hopefully show what I mean:

Code:
In a simplfied example this is how Access formats the codein its own sloppy way

        If Forms!F10Main.OneID10 = True Then     '
            Me.fVoyageFrom = DLookup("[BoundFrom]", "Voyages", "[ShipName] = '" & [Param107] & "'")
            Me.fShipType = DLookup("[ShipType]", "Ships", "[ShipName] = '" & [Param] & "'")
            Me.btnAdd.Enabled = False: Me.btntnAdd.Visible = True: Me.btn17 = 0: Me.btn21 = 77
            Me.btnDelete.Enabled = False: Me.btnDelete.Visible = True: Me.btnUserNoSet = 0: Me.btnDepot = 0
            Me.btnRefresh.Enabled = False: Me.btnRefresh.Visible = True: Me.fInvNum = mLastInvNo: Me.fRate = 0
            Me.btnSet.Enabled = False: Me.btnSet.Visible = True: Me.CustID = mCustID: Me.fVAT = 17.50
            Me.btnReCalc.Enabled = False: Me.btnReCalc.Visible = True
            Me.btnPrinter.Enabled = False: Me.btnPrinter.Visible = True
            Me.btnExit.Enabled = False: Me.btnExit.Visible = True
        End If

At times due to the varying lengths of variables Access code can look a real jumbled mess.


In other langauges we can format code as follows to make it far easier to read.

       If Forms!F10Main.OneID10 = True Then
            Me.fVoyageFrom        = DLookup("[BoundFrom]", "Voyages", "[ShipName] = '" & [Param107] & "'")
            Me.fShipType          = DLookup("[ShipType]",  "Ships", "[ShipName]   = '" & [Param]    & "'")
            Me.btnAdd.Enabled     = False  : Me.btnAdd.Visible     = True  : Me.btn17     = 0           : Me.btn21    = 77
            Me.btnDelete.Enabled  = False  : Me.btnDelete.Visible  = True  : Me.btnUserNo = 0           : Me.btnDepot = 0
            Me.btnRefresh.Enabled = False  : Me.btnRefresh.Visible = True  : me.fInvNum   = mLastInvNo  : Me.fRate    = 0
            Me.btnSet.Enabled     = False  : Me.btnSet.Visible     = True  : Me.fCustID   = mCustID     : Me.fVAT     = 17.50
            Me.btnNext.Enabled    = False  : Me.btnReCalc.Visible  = True  : me.fAccCode  = mAccCode
            Me.btnPrinter.Enabled = False  : Me.btnPrinter.Visible = True
            Me.btnExit.Enabled    = False  : Me.btnExit.Visible    = True
        End If

The basic problem is that you cannot tab or space the ':' Newline. Neither can you space out to align the '=' to force code into more readable lines. The cause is the fact that Variables and Expressions are not often the same length .
The only part of any Access code you can position along a line is a notes line prefixed with the ' which isn't helpful in showing 'tidy' code
Thanks for the input. As you noted, not really part of this project. And, of course, there are alternative approaches to formatting code. Perhaps there will be some improvements, though, if the new Monaco editor ever sees the light of day. This will change.
 

GPGeorge

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Good morning fellow Access Developers.

What should we call Northwind?

The team modernizing the venerable Northwind template is making good progress. As previously announced, we will have two versions, one for "Beginners" and one for "Developers". The differences will be both in the completeness of the data model and the complexity of the interface.

Our goal for the Starter version is to give new-comers an introduction to Access using "Northwind Traders" as a showcase of design and features. We don't anticipate this version will be used as a real template for a working relational database application; it's a learning tool.

Our goal for the Developer version is to give other developers a good look at a properly designed relational database application, with a realistic data model and efficient interface and automation. Again, we don't expect anyone to drop this version into their workplace and try to use it as a template; it's a showcase of what we consider good Access design.

At this point, we've come to the conclusion that a new approach probably requires a new, more appropriate name than "Northwind Traders" for the list of templates in Access. Among other reasons, we think that the name "Northwind" doesn't convey much about what it is and what it is intended to accomplish. If you don't already know the name, why would you even look at it? The actual template will remain "Northwind Traders", of course, but it should be more obvious why you'd install it and how you'd use it.

We want to launch the new version under a name that tells both new and less experienced developers what it is and why they should use it.



Candidates for a new name include:

  • Access Beginner Showcase
  • Access Developer Showcase
and
  • Access for Beginners
  • Access for Developers
What do you think?

You can provide feedback here in this discussion, or directly to me or to Tom van Stiphout. tom7744@cox.net

Of course, if you think it should remain "Northwind" forever, we'd like to hear that, too.
 

CJ_London

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I think time for a name change - too many versions all with the same name.

suggest include a version number in the name, perhaps related to the lowest version of access it would run under as a .accde (not suggesting it is supplied as a .accde🤭)

some Suggested names from me:

beginners
tool up with access
All about access

Professionals
Access in depth
Go large with access
 

GPGeorge

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I think time for a name change - too many versions all with the same name.

suggest include a version number in the name, perhaps related to the lowest version of access it would run under as a .accde (not suggesting it is supplied as a .accde🤭)

some Suggested names from me:

beginners
tool up with access
All about access

Professionals
Access in depth
Go large with access
Version number, e.g. Northwind 2, was considered, but it's not high on the feature list so far ;) .

The issue there is, as the screenshot shows, we need to fit into the overall template scheme.

I will share your names.
 

CJ_London

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Ah - on my phone, can't see the screenshot:(
 

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