Thoughts on gender identity from a leader in the trans community (1 Viewer)

Isaac

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In the words of a mental health professional who is transgender themselves and who has been helping transgender people for years in clinical counseling:

Quotes from A transgender psychologist who has helped hundreds of teens transition:
I have these private thoughts: ‘This has gone too far. It’s going to get worse. I don’t want any part of it

A fair number of kids are getting into it because it’s trendy. I think in our haste to be supportive, we’re missing that element.

To flatly say there couldn’t be any social influence in formation of gender identity flies in the face of reality. Teenagers influence each other
 

The_Doc_Man

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I don't want to overdo it here because I don't actually oppose Isaac's point. But because of family ties, I want to offer some kind of balance. It is clear that some folks are confused about what gender role they wish to portray. As long as we can agree that in many cases there is actually no confusion at all (i.e. they ARE gay and have no doubts about it), I am OK. Some people's gender as viewed by an "outsider" or stranger might not match their appearance. Some cases ARE biological in origin. Some are not. Peer pressure is not ruled out. Nor can we rule out pure, plain, and simple confusion. There is no uniformity in the origins of people's feelings on this subject, and therefore I want to avoid generalizations.

I return to three people I know or knew as gay, all of whom had different but close relationships with me. They were at least my friends and never once expressed any doubts about being gay. They further expressed that their gender orientation manifested itself before they were 12 (all three of them.) One was my college bridge partner from 50 years ago; one was a four-year participant in a D&D variant game run by one of my co-workers from about 40 years ago. The third person is my step-daughter. They were three people from three different time periods, three different vocations, three different families; none of whom knew each other, and all of them told the same kind of story about WHEN they realized they were different from their peers.

I think the most important part that I want to emphasize is that they are people first. Two of them, I am absolutely sure, were NOT candidates for gender reassignment surgery. I strongly doubt the D&D participant was thinking of "making a change" because in that case it was never a subject of discussion. But all of them are people who deserve consideration regardless of any gender-related confusion they might have.
 

Uncle Gizmo

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The best example I heard recently was that if your child went on a diet and became anorexic through their own choice, you would do everything in your power to stop them dying....

Parents have a similar duty to their children. If their children choose a different sexual orientation, they have to make sure it is a proper choice and not a choice based on indoctrination from the internet.
 
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The_Doc_Man

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Don't disagree at all, UncleG. The problem, of course, is that the only manual offered for living that has ANY traction at all is 2000 years old and desperately in need of an update. Not to mention the need for technical corrections.
 

Isaac

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I don't want to overdo it here because I don't actually oppose Isaac's point. But because of family ties, I want to offer some kind of balance. It is clear that some folks are confused about what gender role they wish to portray. As long as we can agree that in many cases there is actually no confusion at all (i.e. they ARE gay and have no doubts about it), I am OK. Some people's gender as viewed by an "outsider" or stranger might not match their appearance. Some cases ARE biological in origin. Some are not. Peer pressure is not ruled out. Nor can we rule out pure, plain, and simple confusion. There is no uniformity in the origins of people's feelings on this subject, and therefore I want to avoid generalizations.

I return to three people I know or knew as gay, all of whom had different but close relationships with me. They were at least my friends and never once expressed any doubts about being gay. They further expressed that their gender orientation manifested itself before they were 12 (all three of them.) One was my college bridge partner from 50 years ago; one was a four-year participant in a D&D variant game run by one of my co-workers from about 40 years ago. The third person is my step-daughter. They were three people from three different time periods, three different vocations, three different families; none of whom knew each other, and all of them told the same kind of story about WHEN they realized they were different from their peers.

I think the most important part that I want to emphasize is that they are people first. Two of them, I am absolutely sure, were NOT candidates for gender reassignment surgery. I strongly doubt the D&D participant was thinking of "making a change" because in that case it was never a subject of discussion. But all of them are people who deserve consideration regardless of any gender-related confusion they might have.

Yeah, I can get on board with all that, Doc

There seems to be a continuum with complete confusion/fantasy being on one end and complete and total reality of some kind on the other end, with a fair amount in between. It does seem worrisome that the "in between" is becoming a big deal, but I grant you there are both ends of the scale so to speak.

And I especially agree with, 'they are people first'. We are to love people with the love of God that is within us and has been 'shed abroad in our hearts by the holy spirit" as the Bible says. I see no person as higher or lower than another. I do NOT see the sin of homosexual activity whatsoever 'worse' (etc) than each time I explode with anger at my spouse. As such, I admit, I differ from a number of other Christians on the topic, but that's the way I see it.

To Adam's point and well put, I think, is that that IS something "good" that has come out of this: More clarity. More people are beginning to realize that there are, in fact, environmental and social and cultural influences that have had a drastic impact on people's choices. Not that everybody was in that category.

Once we take the first step of admitting that cultural and environmental influences have, in fact, shaped people's gender and sexuality-related outcomes, we can then take the next step of deciding what to do, if anything, ABOUT those cultural and environmental influences.

The very least that most people in the US can and do agree on, I believe (intellectual elitists' opinions notwithstanding, but I'm referring to the majority of the normal population), is we agree that it's OK for parents to help shape those influences and guide their children toward either more or less of this or that. When we completely lose that, then our children become products of whatever the latest fashion is, and I've heard a number of testimonies recently from formerly trans men (i.e. original women) who were egged on for the slightest and totally insufficient reasons when they were adolescents and now greatly regret, and have gone through hell to try to reverse, their decisions. But the knowledge of experiences cannot be totally undone.

There is no reason we shouldn't have compassion on them, too.
 

AccessBlaster

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When you look at the aminal Kindom does homosexuality exist? Yes, so what does that tell us about God/nature's design? Does it mean that dolphins who engage in homosexual activities are an abomination to God, I think not. It is part of the design or is it a mistake?

As far as gender is concerned one cannot choose their gender it is assigned at birth at the molecular level, and no amount of surgery or counseling will change that.

We would all be better served if educators would teach very young kids basic life skills rather than abstract concepts that are better left to higher learning or elective-type classes like learning French or Spanish.
 

Isaac

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I see your point, but do you think the analogy is just a bit too broad? Whatever animals do, we do? Possibly a slight over simplification. They also eat and r@pe each other.

Also, it is not at all normal among animals, although I am well aware people have gone to the ends of the earth to document exceptions, but clearly, that's not how the system works. I guess it is silly to debate this, we all know how species reproduce. There are exceptions to every normal behavior, but as our society has continued to push the "it's normal, it's normal", what we find is that the very viewpoint is a cause with an effect. That's the gist of the point I'm making, the rest we'll probably never agree on, and I'm OK with that, I respect everyone's viewpoints.

@AB your viewpoint is a noble one, but ultimately it's (like mine and everyone's), just one point on the continuum. You're only half-woke until you submit to the most progressive viewpoints on your second point.
So what I conclude is that everyone seems to draw the line somewhere, noble efforts at inclusivity notwithstanding. ;)

Have a happy Easter everyone!
 
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The_Doc_Man

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it is not at all normal among animals

Are you sure about that? A dog would hump your leg if you let him. Homosexual behavior isn't wide-spread among the animal kingdom, but then again, we aren't 50% gay, it is a lot less. And besides which, science tells us (or did when I last looked) that we ARE among the animal kingdom. In the animal-vegetable-mineral classification, we aren't vegetables (except for the couch potatoes) and aren't minerals (except for the rock-heads). And that leaves us to be animals. Following DNA alterations using genome studies has shown clearly where we fit on the tree of life. Don't care what the Bible says about the origin of Mankind. We got scientific evidence, but the Bible's words are from some long-dead writer whose words were transcribed many times before the Council of Nicea settled on which versions of everything they liked the most.

You're only half-woke until you submit to the most progressive viewpoints on your second point.

I am getting to HATE the word "woke" because what it SHOULD mean and the way it is used are two different things. We should BE AWARE of certain basic facts in biology. But "woke" has come to mean "sympathetic to a specific viewpoint" - and as far as I'm concerned, they can drop the "sym" any time.

This is perhaps more of a Zen viewpoint, but I think the question should be approached as follows: Does this homosexual tendency occur in nature? Yes. Am I likely to be able to change that? No. Is there a need to change it that is sufficient to try and reverse the course of nature? Not aware of one, even if I COULD change the course of nature, which I can't. Then what should I do? Be aware of it and go on about your other business.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Bzzzt! Wrong answer.






(Got to admit, the article about gay giraffes engaging in neck play is so bizarre because that's a LOT of neck to play with.)
 

The_Doc_Man

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And, having had this experience when I used to play music on Bourbon Street in New Orleans, I can still tell the gay person "Sorry, I don't go that way." So they leave me alone and look for someone else to hump-n-bump in the night. But the dog is still a dog and the gay person is still a gay person and telling them "No" didn't change their orientation. There is a difference between saying "No" and denying the situation.
 

Galaxiom

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Much of the controversy stems from the labeling. We will all be a lot better off when people can just be people.

The growing sector among the young is the "non-binary". People who don't base expectations about anyone on their external genitals. People who just want to express themselves without the gender enforced boundaries imposed by their culture.

Males who wear makeup and dresses without deciding they must identify as female. After all females started wearing suits and only the extremists accused them of being closet men or presuming they were lesbians. (The liberation of the males remains many decades behind that of females.)

The great irony is that non-binary isn't even included in "LGBTQI", perhaps anonymously relegated to the "+" that is sometimes appended. Too many, even among the "alternatives" are still desperate for the security of labels and remain uncomfortable when someone just wants to be a person.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Much of the controversy stems from the labeling. We will all be a lot better off when people can just be people.

G., got to agree with you on that. Humans have this tendency to try to "pigeonhole" people so they can quickly categorize them and, as a result, stop actually thinking about the person. Like... "Oh, that's a 98-pound weakling, I'll just brush him aside." "Oh, she's a big fat slob, who cares if I 'diss' her?" "He's a black guy, not worth my time." "She's a Latina, probably illegally here..." That kind of pigeonholing - slap a label on the person and stop caring. Relegate them to your trash heap because you can't be bothered with THAT kind of people.

We all do it at some point, to some degree, but some of us try to take enough time to read the Forward of the book rather than judging solely by its cover. If you know someone is a total jerk because you've interacted before, that is different than looking at someone and saying "jerk." But it goes deeper than that. A person can be relatively weak physically but a giant in some other ways. Does Bill Gates look like a nerd to you? Maybe, but he can buy and sell ten thousand of you before breakfast. Did Albert Einstein look like someone's addled old grandfather? Maybe, but his thoughts were grandfather to some pretty lofty ideas. Or consider "Mama" Cass Elliot and Karen Carpenter, two women with metabolic/eating disorders. But two women with the purest singing voices you ever heard. Looks can be deceiving.

Don't know if I got this link without the advertising, but I'll leave you with this musical statement.

 

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