Voting is pointless (1 Viewer)

Jon

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Is it pointless going to the polling booth to vote for your Prime Minister or Presidential candidate? Are you are fooling yourself if you think your one vote will make any difference? A statistician has argued that you are more likely to die in a road traffic accident driving to the voting booth than alter the outcome of the election.

This topic is highly emotive, as I have found from previous discussions on the subject. Everybody loses rationality!
 

The_Doc_Man

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There may be no political advantage in some cases, but there is always a personal advantage.

When the winning politician does something bone-headed, you can always say, with maximum indignation, "Well I didn't vote for that creep."

And if you HAD voted for the bone-head, you can say "Oh, that must have been an aberration. He should get rid of the advisors who pushed for that decision."
 
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Jon

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When the winning politician does something bone-headed, you can always say, with maximum indignation, "Well I didn't vote for that creep."
I can also say that. 😃
 

The_Doc_Man

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But when your guy's opponent does something bone-headed later, if you DIDN'T vote then you can't say 'That's why I voted for my guy."
 

ColinEssex

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I should imagine in the USA, it is tactical not to vote for your hero because it's the one with the lowest populace vote that wins. So trooping along to the polling station in the freezing pouring rain is a vote for your candidate to lose. One has to wonder what the incentive to vote is. I'm guessing it's the law like in Oz.
Weird.

Col
 

Jon

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Does anyone know if there is any national election there the decision was based off of just one vote? I don't know any. Maybe Putin, who probably fiddles the numbers somewhat.
 

ColinEssex

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From what I hear, it seems Putin fiddles most elections, especially the USA presidential one, it's his hobby. Which means the result has little to do with the American people. Anyway, it's the turn of the democrats in November. Although having said that, they seem to be fielding a couple of old geezers - one called Biden, forget the other one. Both old enough for sensible people to be retired.
Then republican lot will put up the orange one with white eyes like a panda in negative who talk out of his bottom and has a pea brain.
Bring back Dan Quail I say.

Col
 

ColinEssex

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Mind you, Putin is a bit busy bombing innocent civilians including children and babies in Syria. So may be the USA elections are on the back burner.

Col
 

Dreamweaver

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I voted for the first time last year, Up till then i thought it was a waist of time but at least now I can whine about how my guy didn't get in :p
 
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The_Doc_Man

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Jon, it is theoretically possible in the USA (though unlikely) to have a candidate elected by one vote at a national election. It would take a race with two candidates who each won the same number of electors with one precinct left in a small state. The number of votes would have to be closely matched in most of the districts and in such a case, that one vote could swing the state one way or the other and thus win the election. That CAN happen in a USA election. Now the odds are not good of it happening, but if it DID happen, the odds would be 100% of a demand of a recount.

Colin, you asked about the incentive for voting. In the USA, there are those indifferent voters who won't bother to come out to vote for their candidate. Therefore a large element of strategy in USA politics is to make dire predictions of doom, gloom, mopery and dopery in the streets, and any other prediction to instill actual panic to get the voters to come out to support candidate X. Perhaps that will help you understand some of the things that have been in the political news from the USA lately.

And the sad part is that so many folks, like Jon in the UK, believe that their vote really doesn't matter. But then apathy leads to the election of a no-good dumb dog of a politician who screws everyone to tears because he's a total jerk. And of course, the losing party is the one who characterizes him or her as a jerk.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Actually, Trump is doing good for some folks. Which isn't denying that he can be a total jerk. But he doesn't screw everyone to tears. He is selective.
 

Grumm

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Since I live in Belgium, I can agree that letting the people vote does not matter.
Even if 1 party had over 30% they weren't allowed to join the government... All the small parties (those with 10-15 %) just join together and surpass that one 30% party... How is that fair ? Most of the people didn't vote for those small parties yet they manage to get to the power.
And to make it worse, we still haven't a government so far just because of all the crap. So why bother to go vote ? Oh yeah... we get fined if we don't go...
 
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Jon

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And the sad part is that so many folks, like Jon in the UK, believe that their vote really doesn't matter. But then apathy leads to the election of a no-good dumb dog of a politician who screws everyone to tears because he's a total jerk
Lets not confuse groups of votes with my one vote. You cannot conflate the two. People do it to prove that I should vote. But I am not arguing that if everybody votes then you don't get the 100% fair election result. My argument, as clearly stated, is that it is irrational for a person to vote and think that one vote will effect the outcome. I believe that in the USA, the chances are something like 60M to 1.

Also, if more people vote, who is to say that the person you think is a jerk will not get elected anyway? Half the people hated Hillary, half hated Trump! Same principle for Brexit. People are divided. Just having a higher percentage of the population voting does not mean you necessarily get a different result. The only circumstances are if it is close and one side has a lower propensity to vote than the other.

I am not talking about the morals of voting. What I am talking about is that people are fooling themselves if they think their individual vote will make one jot of difference. If I am wrong, can someone please point to one instance in the history of civilisation where one vote altered the outcome of a national election, when there are at least 100K+ people voting? If you can't find that instance, then the evidence (and maths) is heavily on my site. I doubt you can find a single one, in all countries in all of history!

Going to the voting booth might make you feel good, doing your bit and helping out. But it is the biggest con known to mankind. You are all fooling yourselves! Instead, if you drive to the voting booth you are contributing to CO2 emissions in a futile attempt to alter the unalterable! Or did I get that wrong?

It is nothing to do with laziness. If someone has a convincing argument that it makes a difference, then I would vote!

Edit: I am not saying you should not vote. People can enjoy voting for other reasons than it making a difference. I might cheer at a football match but I know my one cheer won't make any difference! [To be pedantic, cheering is cumulative in its result, while voting is only cumulative on the one instance where it is exactly 50:50 and your one vote tips the balance.]
 
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Grumm

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Your vote matters as much as your individual attempt to reduce global meat consumption or use the bicycle to reduce global warming and all that stuff.
From our point of view yes that one vote or action does not matter. But if you are one of all those millions who believe it does and actually take action all at once then it still does not make a difference for that one person. But you will have an illusion that you helped the planet or made the right vote.
It may or may not affect the outcome but I think most people believe that what they voted was good.
 

deletedT

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If I am wrong, can someone please point to one instance in the history of civilisation where one vote altered the outcome of a national election, when there are at least 100K+ people voting? If you can't find that instance, then the evidence (and maths) is heavily on my site. I doubt you can find a single one, in all countries in all of history!
@Jon I'm 55 years old and I've never voted. Because I think both sides are the same. Either side wins the result is the same. No politician worries about people.
But in the history of voting in Japan, we had 20 instances that one vote changed the result.
 

AccessBlaster

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Al Gore lost by four electoral votes, remember the hanging chad?

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