Company wont hire programmers with tatoo (policy) (1 Viewer)

[Rx_]

* Wow - I never imagined this would be such a hot topic! This is an interesting and valuable insight that was not expected. - Best of luck to everyone *
In my spare time, I attend various investment meeting and such things.
For example, at the IGDA meetings, I will be the one wearing a suit and tie. Usually because a good tailored suit is comfortable.

So, we had three fairly large game developers owner or manager speaking. The subject was interview tips on how to get hired. This meeting was over crowded because of the college students attending due to the topic. So, after a short summary of good tips (nothing new for seasoned programmers) he mentioned "no tattoos". We are talking that if you sport a tattoo, the interview is over before it starts.

Many of the college types, and a few in the 30's really took offense to this. So after the disruption quited down, I asked the speaker if there was a financial reason. He explained that he is always trying to get several million funded for what ever game is out there. That the over 60 banker types who fund these kind of ventures are typically hands-on. To the point that they want to go onto the floor and see operations.
These guys (typically guys) are fairly conservative. They don't necessarily trust some coder with a tattoo of a pot leaf on the fore-head and a dragon head on the hand. OK, I greatly embellished the last sentence, just to make the point. These guys want to put money into a sound operation.
The crowd got a Little out of sorts again so he dropped the subject.

Later, I talked to the other two alone. They both totally agreed, this is the case for them too. They just didn't bring it up to this crowd with the opinion that it was wrong for managers to think about tattoos this way.

This is not a case where the interview has someone strip down and "spread them" to check for tattoos. It is about visible tattoos for acceptable work clothing.

To me, it seems perfectly reasonable.
Thought I would share this for some of the younger generation. Often, what is acceptable at college isn't going to work in the tight marketplace.

I personally have nothing against tattoos, don't have a tattoo myself. But, if I go to a bank to deposit my money, appearances do count for me.
I can fully understand the idea that an employer can and will base hiring on this type of criteria.

 

[Vassago]

It's about upbringing. It IS very short-sighted and closed-minded to consider people with visible tattoos or piercings as less worthy individuals. Unfortunately, a lot of it is embeded into them through maturity. Remember, prejudice is a learned behavior. People aren't born that way. I try to have patience around people who feel this way.

For people who are far too conservative to look past appearances that have nothing to do with capabilities, they will soon be the minority, if they aren't already. I remember 20 years ago it was considered gay for a guy to have both ears pierced. Now it's perfectly acceptable.

I have both of mine pierced and stretched, along with a rook and industrial. I also have a labret and eyebrow piercing, but no visible tattoos unless I go sleeveless. That will soon change. My company also realizes that they don't define who I am professionally and appreciate the knowledge and what I bring, which is why my career has taken off. They've never once judged me. My manager at one point had stretched ears... before he left to further his career.

So, if you want to not be a minority in societal thinking, I suggest you try to to come to terms with acceptance and educate yourself on why people get piercings and/or tattoos and what they truly mean to each individual. For me, a lot of it is cultural. If you open your mind, you'll realize how silly it is to not approach a bank teller or feel as comfortable because they have a visible tattoo.

 

[Vassago]

The proof of concept is in the reaction of the students taking the lecture. Soon, they will be in control of those companies. I guarantee the policies will change then.

 

[Adam Caramon]

I agree with what Vassago said. I've never been a tattoo or piercing person, but when I see them I don't have any strong reactions to them. It is definitely a generational thing. People are used to what they know, and what they don't know makes them nervous. In order to justify their nervousness, they subconsciously place the blame on the individual that is out of the ordinary.

This applies to clothes people wear, gender stereotypes, racial stereotypes, etc. A lot of the older generations are all about telling others how to act, look, think, etc. The younger generations have been saturated with messages of diversity, respecting differences, etc.

Rx_ is definitely right though. People that run companies are rich. The majority of rich people, at least in the USA, are older white people. If you want to maximize your chances of being hired, you have to understand their prejudices.

 

[Galaxiom]

Remember the Golden Rule. "Those with the gold make the rules".

 

[RainLover]

You need to learn respect.

Firstly to your own body by not defacing it, and secondly to your employer who not only wants you to do be good at your job but to be seen to be good.

I would not dare to turn up for a job interview without a haircut and clean shaven. My shoes polished and I would be dressed in a suit and tie.

I have owned and managed various companies over my years. I have employed many persons but I have never employed an obviously tattooed person nor would I employ a person with ridiculous ear rings.

If you feel that I am prejudiced have a look at the leaders of industry and the people that they employ as their key personnel.

 

[Lightwave]

I personally can handle a lot of tatoos on people no problem and provided they were tasteful and not overly overt I probably wouldnt have a problem

But I would struggle with offensive tatoos so no swas stickas / KK stuff and some of the the snuff tattoos I personally uncomfortable to see. I'm not sure about tatoos on faces I think they would have to be a real superstar developer or I would have had to have built up some time with the guy. Simple crosses on hands and letters no real problem with that and if tatoos are particularly tasteful (which I know is subjective) and artistic I might actually see it as a positive but I'd want to see good attitude as well.

On balance I wouldn't want to work for a company that had such an inflexible policy.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Very short sighted of some people, for example if the tatted individual is creative and out performs the non-tatted employee then I would not hesitate to hire that person. After all the number one reason people are in business is to turn a profit.

But we are talking about the interview for the job, not a performance appraisal in the job.

Brian

 

[Adam Caramon]

You need to learn respect.

Actually, it has nothing to do with respect. You were just raised in a time when tattoos and piercings were considered taboo. As such, you've been taught that these things are not appropriate.

Firstly to your own body by not defacing it, and secondly to your employer who not only wants you to do be good at your job but to be seen to be good.

Think about this for a moment. Every woman that gets her ears pierced is "defacing" her body? Each woman hasn't "learned respect"?

If being seen to be good is the same as doing your job well, how does having a tattoo or piercing affect your abilities? What you're really saying here is that you must conform to what mainstream society expects so as to avoid making anyone uncomfortable.

But understand that this is not a value statement. Tattoos are not good or bad. Neither are piercings. In another 20 years or so when mainstream society doesn't care, you will likely see guys dressed in collared shirts (no ties, those will be gone soon as well - they're filthy) with tattoos and piercings working in fortune 500 companies.

I have employed many persons but I have never employed an obviously tattooed person nor would I employ a person with ridiculous ear rings.

Ok, but you're what, 45, maybe 50+ years old? This is all learned behavior. You've been taught that these things are bad.

If you feel that I am prejudiced have a look at the leaders of industry and the people that they employ as their key personnel.

In addition to Galaxiom's spot-on golden rule idiom, I'll add my own: What is right is not always popular, and what is popular is not always right.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Remember the Golden Rule. "Those with the gold make the rules".

Or as we say
" He who pays the piper calls the tune"

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Isn't what we wear, whether it be clothes, jewelry, tattoes, hairstyle etc making a statement about us? Wont we be judged on that statement?
I sense that some feel that the besuited mature guy is considered somewhat staid and bigoted and that they would not employ him, and I suspect that that is true in certain situations.
Its called life.

Brian

 

[RainLover]

Adam

Think about this for a moment. Every woman that gets her ears pierced is "defacing" her body? Each woman hasn't "learned respect"?

I think you are being a bit rough on women here. And for you to say that a woman has not learnt respect just because she wears an ear ring is simply a very degrading thing to say about woman. I wonder if your own mother or perhaps sister wears an ear ring. More women do than don't and have done so for many many years.

I would like to think that this was written in haste and this is not your true belief.

 

[Galaxiom]

Adam

I think you are being a bit rough on women here. And for you to say that a woman has not learnt respect just because she wears an ear ring is simply a very degrading thing to say about woman. I wonder if your own mother or perhaps sister wears an ear ring. More women do than don't and have done so for many many years.

I would like to think that this was written in haste and this is not your true belief.

I expect it was meant to be irony.

 

[Adam Caramon]

Adam

I think you are being a bit rough on women here. And for you to say that a woman has not learnt respect just because she wears an ear ring is simply a very degrading thing to say about woman. I wonder if your own mother or perhaps sister wears an ear ring. More women do than don't and have done so for many many years.

I would like to think that this was written in haste and this is not your true belief.

RainLover, did you notice the question mark in my post - it looks like this "?" That means I was asking you a question. I was extrapolating from your statement that equated getting a piercing to defacing one's body.

 

[RainLover]

I expect it was meant to be irony.

I really did not think Adam would be so short sighted. He usually writes well. For a septic tank that is.

 

[Groundrush]

Very short sighted of some people, for example if the tatted individual is creative and out performs the non-tatted employee then I would not hesitate to hire that person. After all the number one reason people are in business is to turn a profit.

Doesn't matter if they are good or not, there will always be someone else out there that is better.

 

[RainLover]

RainLover, did you notice the question mark in my post - it looks like this "?" That means I was asking you a question. I was extrapolating from your statement that equated getting a piercing to defacing one's body.

Adam you made a Statement which ended in a question mark which was all perceded by a request. So you have confused me. Do you think you could rephrase your question.

 

[RainLover]

RainLover, did you notice the question mark in my post - it looks like this "?" That means I was asking you a question. I was extrapolating from your statement that equated getting a piercing to defacing one's body.

Adam

You may very well think that but I can't agree. A nice ear ring is often just the thing to finish off a ladies make up.

 

[Adam Caramon]

So you have confused me. Do you think you could rephrase your question.

My apologies for confusing you. I certainly will rephrase.

Given that you said:

You need to learn respect.

Firstly to your own body by not defacing it, and secondly to your employer who not only wants you to do be good at your job but to be seen to be good.

How is respect connected to getting a piercing or a tattoo?

 

[RainLover]

How is respect connected to getting a piercing or a tattoo?

This is of course the way I and each and every other person is educated.

When some see a girl with a piercing in her tongue some think it is a positive statement. Others think, .

Bikies have Tattoos to scare people and to be one of the gang.

Some people shave their heads to be different or dye it outrageous colours.

People everywhere dress to make a statement or to suit the weather, or perhaps for religious reasons.

Have a look at an American Marine. His uniform is perfect. Check out U Tube for the Tomb of the unknown Soldier. There you will see ultiminate respect.

When I was young I wanted to grow my hair like the Beatles, but this was seen as rebellious so I was not allowed to. I never once in my first 7 years of school wear shoes to school. This was because I did not own any. Nothing to do with respect.

So we all have our own particular reasons for the way we dress. If everyone here was to be honest we would all agree that we dress if we can to suit the occasion and perhaps to make a little statement of our own.

People with those long things in their ears, studs in their nose obscenities painted on their body are making a rebellious statement. Those that dress smartly for a job are trying to make a positive statement

The fashion of today will all change given time. But what you or I do right now is how we feel about ourselves and how we feel about those around us. This will have an influence on the rest of our lives.

If you want a high paying job as an executive dress for the occasion. If you want to sweep floors then dress for that. No matter how good you or I are we can be replaced.

If the employer sets a standard then we must abide by it or go and get that job that accepts rebellious garb.

I really don’t care what others do to themselves. There are some tattoos that look great. But if you are wearing one keep away from my family and no I don't have a job for you.

As they say, “Clothes maketh the man”