Sex Discrimination Laws - UK 30years old (1 Viewer)

[ColinEssex]

Hi All,

The Sex Discrimination Laws in the UK are 30 years old now.

There's been alot of chat about it on the BBC, such as women are still discriminated against in interviews if they're of child bearing years. Right or wrong? (realistically, not as per the law - imagine you're a small employer, what would you do?)

Some women are paid less than men for doing the same job. Right or wrong? women want to be equal, except when it comes to doing "man things" at home, they go all weak and female to get men to do stuff.

Should women be allowed to have so much maternity leave? - in the UK its up to a year with benefits from either the employer or the state.

For example - If a small employer has a woman who becomes pregnant, this can prove very expensive with benefits, employing temps, training temps - then in some cases the woman returns to work for 3 months after mat leave then leaves permanently. The 3 months bit is to avoid paying back any benefits they received whilst on mat leave.

Finally, should women just give up work if they become pregnant? if they can't afford it - should they get pregnant anyway? is that being selfish?, just to satisfy the urge to have a baby

When women come back to work after childbirth and mat leave - is it right to give the baby to a stranger to bring up? imposing their values, not the parents values?
Is earning loads of money more important than bringing up children in a sound family environment where the child grows up with its parents, not a childminder?

Are babies / children brought up differently now than they were say, 40 years ago when Mum stayed home - the "family unit"???, old hat now? or still thriving?

Any thoughts people?

Col

 

[Ron_dK]

Guess that quite a number of laws in the UK needs revision or renewal.
But isn't that why they brought Geldorf in ?

 

[Bodisathva]

women are still discriminated against in interviews if they're of child bearing years. Right or wrong? (realistically, not as per the law - imagine you're a small employer, what would you do?)

The pregnancy trump is valid, not only to the employer, but also the employer's insurance carrier. Everyone's rates rise as women of childbearing years are a bigger insurance risk...until the men hit 40-ish and then the rates change. Smaller businesses can't afford the risk...it may not be fair, but it's life.

Some women are paid less than men for doing the same job. Right or wrong?

Wrong...and right. If a woman wants to do any job, so be it. She should have all of the opportunity in the world to do so without malice or predjudice. But she should also consider that women are biologically different (notice that's not inferior) from men and if biology makes it difficult or impossible for a woman to complete all of the tasks relevant to the position, she should not even be given the job.

Should women be allowed to have so much maternity leave? - in the UK its up to a year with benefits from either the employer or the state.

I think an entire year is a bit much...believe it's around eight weeks here in the states...and sure she should get maternity leave...the father should as well...important bonding, family type time for all those involved.

Finally, should women just give up work if they become pregnant? if they can't afford it - should they get pregnant anyway? is that being selfish?, just to satisfy the urge to have a baby

A "together" couple with secure finances that have made the conscious choice for the mother to remain at home...absolutely. Lean, mean, baby-making machines that realize their payments from welfare increase with the number of children to the point that they can eventually live on welfare alone...absolutely not.

When women come back to work after childbirth and mat leave - is it right to give the baby to a stranger to bring up? imposing their values, not the parents values?

This is why interviews of prospective sitters/nannies are conducted. Find the one that is right for you and your lifestyle and either shares your values or agrees to help teach them and live by them in the presence of the child(ren). This effectively places the onus on the parents...where it should be.

Is earning loads of money more important than bringing up children in a sound family environment where the child grows up with its parents, not a childminder?

Some parents don't care about missing important milestones in the child's life, others wouldn't miss them...I personally vote for the latter, thinking that if you don't care, you shouldn't have had them in the first place.

Are babies / children brought up differently now than they were say, 40 years ago when Mum stayed home - the "family unit"???, old hat now? or still thriving?

I think the family unit is once again coming into vogue. With the proliferation of work-at-home moms/dads and the wonders of telecommuting, it is becoming more and more possible for the kids to stay at home with at least one, sometimes both, parents.

 

[lmnop7854]

Hi All,

The Sex Discrimination Laws in the UK are 30 years old now.

Still living in the dark ages, huh, Col?

There's been alot of chat about it on the BBC, such as women are still discriminated against in interviews if they're of child bearing years. Right or wrong? (realistically, not as per the law - imagine you're a small employer, what would you do?)

Wrong! Child-bearing years are, what, from 18 to 50? How fair is that? Why even bother hiring any women at all?

Some women are paid less than men for doing the same job. Right or wrong? women want to be equal, except when it comes to doing "man things" at home, they go all weak and female to get men to do stuff.

WRONG!! Some women can do jobs that men are in better than the men in them!! Studies have shown that women are better multi-taskers than men because of biological differences, and pretty much use their brains better. And excuse me, all "weak and female"? How about when men turn all vapid and obtuse when women ask them to do the laundry, and they pretend they don't know how? God knows, if you do it wrong, they'll never ask you to do it again!!

Should women be allowed to have so much maternity leave? - in the UK its up to a year with benefits from either the employer or the state.

You guys obviously are giving out too much maternity leave. I got 8 weeks of maternity leave here, and it was not full pay either. Some employers don't even give that much. I would think if you want to avoid abuse, you wouldn't want to give up that much time and money. I think that would also go a long way to reducing the discrimination against women of child-bearing age, because the cost would be significantly less.

Finally, should women just give up work if they become pregnant? if they can't afford it - should they get pregnant anyway? is that being selfish?, just to satisfy the urge to have a baby.

You make it sound like women are the only ones involved, and once they have children, aren't deserving of having gainful employment. Everyone deserves to have a job that satisfies and challenges them, and women are no exception. Many women get this satisfaction from being mothers, and staying home with their children, but many others still want to be part of the work force, and make themselves useful and productive. Not only that, but many childless women have no idea how having a child will affect them. I know I had no idea, no matter how much other people told me that it would change my life. Let's also keep in mind that men are as responsible for birth control as women are.

When women come back to work after childbirth and mat leave - is it right to give the baby to a stranger to bring up? imposing their values, not the parents values?
Is earning loads of money more important than bringing up children in a sound family environment where the child grows up with its parents, not a childminder?
Are babies / children brought up differently now than they were say, 40 years ago when Mum stayed home - the "family unit"???, old hat now? or still thriving?

I have mixed feelings about this. Many women can't afford the luxury of staying home with their children, which brings me back to your previous question - if they can't afford it, etc. Another point to make here is that for many women, pregnancy and childbirth is a privilege that defines womanhood. I don't know very many women who do not eventually yearn for a baby, not just to satisfy some urge, but to be part of the human race, and make a difference by bringing a child into it. The fact that capitalism rules our society doesn't change those feelings, so women have children whether they can afford it or not. And in most cases, you can't afford children.

Getting back to the original question, as much as I don't like other people raising my children, I don't think of her daycare providers as "raising" her. Granted, they will be there for many milestones that I won't, but in a day care facility, there are many different people who take care of her during the course of the day, so I am not worried that she will be getting the wrong set of values. I love her daycare center, and the people there love her. I can't really ask for more. And due to the advances of telecommuting, I will be able to work from home a few days a week, so she won't have to be there as often (and it won't cost me as much). I know many people don't have this luxury, but I also know many people who leave their children with family members. Depending on who your family is and how functional/dysfunctional it is, this may not be a good thing either.

I also think it is important that she have socialization, in that there are many other children at day care for her to connect with. She wouldn't have this if she was home with me all the time.

Lisa

 

[jsanders]

I agree with more or less every thing you just said Lisa with one exception.

than men because of biological differences, and pretty much use their brains better

The differences in gender based brain function are fairly well documented. Using a statement like “better” when speaking of overall functionality; is subject to large degrees of error.

Maybe we can start a new thread on this one.

Having raised a daughter to be a scientist, gives me a somewhat rare perspective on this.

 

[Bat17]

I will have more time for women libbers when they fight against segregation in sport

Peter