The Deep State (2 Viewers)

moke123

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Pat I know you've posted numerous times that J6 couldn't be an insurrection because nobody had a gun.
You dismiss any fact checks and such.

Would video help you believe? Or does this not count because he didn't actually hit anyone?

 

Jon

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If there was an insurrection, which government were they trying to overthrow? Trump was president at the time. Or have I misunderstood something.

If they came to overthrow the Democrats in the building, they could only do that if they stayed and then replaced them. Did they bring their toothbrushes and an overnight bag? How many toothbrushes did the Jan 6th committee present as evidence of their intent?

Why are riots outside the White House where they burned a church not considered an insurrection? Is it only if they manage to breach the building by pushing past police officers?
 

Pat Hartman

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Pat I know you've posted numerous times that J6 couldn't be an insurrection because nobody had a gun.
You dismiss any fact checks and such.
Depends. Are you going to post a link to a "fact check" that says that TWO people were arrested that day who were carrying guns? Because unless there were thousands or even hundreds or even 10's, there was no "armed" "insurrection" as the talking heads insist to this day.

How many people - EXACTLY - needed to be carrying guns to a peaceful demonstration for it to morph into an "insurrection"? I would have called it "mostly peaceful" but BLM and ANTIFA have already coopted that term for their demonstrations where they burn cop cars and local businesses and kill bystanders and occupy government buildings - but those aren't insurrections. They are "mostly peaceful" protests!!

Near as I can tell, the ONLY gun crime that day was a black officer killing an unarmed white woman with no warning and at point blank range ON VIDEO so there is NO question as to what was happening. He was looked at as a hero by the left because she was a Trump supporter and therefore deserved to die. And he was innocent of murder because he was black and so him being a murderer doesn't fit the narrative. They just let him off scot free. Not even a slap on the wrist for unnecessary force or misusing his firearm. That is "American" justice in Biden's "America".

The hypocrisy is simply mind boggling. Let's start by defunding the FBI for their contribution to perpetuating this farce of an insurrection.
Would video help you believe? Or does this not count because he didn't actually hit anyone?
The video won't play for me. I'm getting security errors from it. That might tell you something. But how does ONE shot fired by a loon constitute an "insurrection" when you can't even accept that Ashley Babbitt was murdered in cold blood? Accept the greater reality of - there was no insurrection - and I'll grant that there were probably a bunch of loons there who thought they were going to an insurrection - but "thought" is the operative word. It was all in their minds. It wasn't organized or even suggested by DJT or his people. Admit that Pelosi AND the Mayor REFUSED to allow National Guard troops who would have been able to defuse the situation without an unauthorized incursion into the capitol building - even though the chief of the Capitol police wanted them. Admit that the FBI peppered the crowd with people trying to incite violence and instigated the break-in. Why can't we talk about that? They had chatter that indicated there might be a problem and yet Pelosi and the Mayor DELIBERATELY and with malice aforethought allowed it to happen.

THERE WAS NO INSURRECTION. Period!

Why isn't that video playing on a 24/7 loop on MSNBC? I've never seen it nor heard about it in 4 years! When did it surface? Why is my virus checker afraid of the video?

BTW - Where is the pipe bomber now?
 
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jpl458

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If there was an insurrection, which government were they trying to overthrow? Trump was president at the time. Or have I misunderstood something.

If they came to overthrow the Democrats in the building, they could only do that if they stayed and then replaced them. Did they bring their toothbrushes and an overnight bag? How many toothbrushes did the Jan 6th committee present as evidence of their intent?

Why are riots outside the White House where they burned a church not considered an insurrection? Is it only if they manage to breach the building by pushing past police officers?
You missed the point. They, the mob, were trying to stop the transfer of power from Trump to Biden, at the behest of the Donald, and others, who are being disbarred or are in prison. I consider that an insurection, a take over of power from an duly elected President. By the way , Trump lost the 2020 election, as expressed by the mountain of evidence available, with absolutely no, zero, zip, nada, evidence to the contrary,
 

Pat Hartman

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I consider that an insurection
So, what did you call it when BLM and ANTIFA took over government buildings in various cities? Oh, I know, a "mostly peaceful" protest as we watched debris flying through the air and cars and buildings burning in the background?

Do you have any videos of the fires and damage done to the Capitol building, aside from the door/windows they broke down to gain entry? I think some jerk tried to steal Nancy's gavel and podium, I'm sure he got life for those crimes.
with absolutely no, zero, zip, nada, evidence to the contrary,
Your head is "you know where". I really don't think you can see any evidence in there. We have pointed you to multiple infractions and suspicious events. I really don't think we're going to get a confession from the deep state operatives who coordinated this. What else might get you to get your head out of your "..." and actually look at some of the allegations?

Did the murder happen if you can't find the corpse? If the casket is closed, is your uncle really in there or is he now in witness protection? I didn't see Osama Bin Laden's body. He can't be dead. I don't believe it! Obama lied to us.

If you don't tilt your nose down a little bit so you can see what is in front of you, you will drown if you go out in the rain.
 

jpl458

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So, what did you call it when BLM and ANTIFA took over government buildings in various cities? Oh, I know, a "mostly peaceful" protest as we watched debris flying through the air and cars and buildings burning in the background?

Do you have any videos of the fires and damage done to the Capitol building, aside from the door/windows they broke down to gain entry? I think some jerk tried to steal Nancy's gavel and podium, I'm sure he got life for those crimes.

Your head is "you know where". I really don't think you can see any evidence in there. We have pointed you to multiple infractions and suspicious events. I really don't think we're going to get a confession from the deep state operatives who coordinated this. What else might get you to get your head out of your "..." and actually look at some of the allegations?

Did the murder happen if you can't find the corpse? If the casket is closed, is your uncle really in there or is he now in witness protection? I didn't see Osama Bin Laden's body. He can't be dead. I don't believe it! Obama lied to us.

If you don't tilt your nose down a little bit so you can see what is in front of you, you will drown if you go out in the rain.
Instead of pointing, show me some proof. Not suspicions. Not emptional rants. Proof, Like F-MA. BTW, no neeed to get nasty wth regard to the location of my head.
 

Steve R.

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Instead of pointing, show me some proof.
You will never accept "proof" that is not in conformance with Democratic talking points and/or your animus towards Trump. Therefore any responses such as the fact that there was no insurrection, it was a patriotic rally, will never be accepted by you.
 

GaP42

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As you @Steve R. and @Pat Hartman ... etc cannot accept the opposite: it was a violent rally that was formed with the intent to prevent the certification of election results. Threats were made - to elected reps Mike Pence, Pelosi etc. - the building was forcibly taken over to prevent the carrying out of official duties. No matter how many were armed or not is irrelevant to the actions. Democratic elections were conducted, a result was obtained which has not been shown to be invalid (conspiracies abound) and you cannot accept it. The test of whether an insurrection is another matter, but if it smells like :poop: looks like :poop: then may be it is (@Pat Hartman)? DJT is not a someone I would choose to heal / unit/ lead a nation.

Who are the ones suffering from some form of derangement?
 

Jon

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How many people - EXACTLY - needed to be carrying guns to a peaceful demonstration for it to morph into an "insurrection"? I would have called it "mostly peaceful" but BLM and ANTIFA have already coopted that term for their demonstrations where they burn cop cars and local businesses and kill bystanders and occupy government buildings - but those aren't insurrections. They are "mostly peaceful" protests!!
I asked AI a few questions. There were at least 10,000 people at Trumps rally. Three dozen or so were armed (not all firearms), according to records. Therefore, this amounts to 0.36% of people were armed. Or to put it another way...

=> 99.64% were unarmed.

In other words, nearly everybody was unarmed.

Also factor in that with a crowd of 10,000 people, some will be armed anyway, regardless of the reason for the crowd. So if you want to look at it rationally, check the following stats out (my calculations and inference).

Approximately 6M Americans carry a loaded gun daily, or 1.8% of the population. There will be those who don't carry daily, but less frequently. So, more than 1.8% of Americans will be armed with a gun on any given day.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/25/how-many-americans-carry-guns-daily

=> 1.8%+ average in US armed with gun > 0.36% in Trumps crowd.

And of that 0.36%, I expect most were not guns. Plus, in the 1.8%, you will need to add non-firearm weapons that citizens will carry. It is probably more like 5% average in US > 0.36% in Trumps crowd, for a fairer comparison

Conclusion
This goes to show that the Trump "insurrection" crowd was far less armed with guns than your average everyday US citizen. The January 6th insurrection is a myth. It just goes to show the lies perpetrated by selective quoting of statistics from power hungry Democrats who will do anything to hide their attempts to cling on, regardless of how much they trample on democracy in the process.
 
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Jon

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One other thing. Much is made of the 100+ police officers injured during the "insurrection". But no fuss was made of the 2,000+ officers injured during the BLM riots. It is like putting a lens on something small, whilst ignoring something large. i.e. 10x bias.
 
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Jon

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Lastly, since I am on a roll(!), there was talk about medical events happening as a result of the insurrection. Or in other words, trying to put causal blame on the riot giving rise to increased incidence of these happenings.

Well, with any crowd size, regardless of its nature, the estimated statistics show that in a crowd size of 10,000 people (whether riot or peaceful), you can expect to get 12 to 31 medical events. i.e. it is normal.
Source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.3109/10903127.2015.1051680

A study looking at protests and riots in the U.S. between 2005-2020 found that around 3.5% of participants suffered injuries requiring medical treatment. So, with a crowd size of 10,000 people, you would expect 350 injuries as the norm.
 

GaP42

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Your attempts to rationalise it away by trying to figure out how many possibly were carrying guns is totally irrelevant - the people who attended, went to protest against the certification of the election result and prevent that certification (following someone who had his own ego and self interest front of mind). That is the problem, this was anti-democratic. The BLM comparison is just an attempt to distract from the real issue.
 

Jon

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Your attempts to rationalise it away by trying to figure out how many possibly were carrying guns is totally irrelevant - the people who attended, went to protest against the certification of the election result and prevent that certification (following someone who had his own ego and self interest front of mind). That is the problem, this was anti-democratic. The BLM comparison is just an attempt to distract from the real issue.
I see it differently.

Firstly, it was not an attempt to rationalise it away. It is stating the facts of the case around weapons, which goes to disprove the conjecture of those stating that these people came armed, when in fact they came less armed than normal citizens. It is an inconvenient fact for insurrectionist alarmists..

the people who attended, went to protest against the certification of the election result and prevent that certification
Would you like to show me the evidence that everybody (or even the majority) of the crowd were there to "prevent certification"? It is your assumption, but no such evidence exists. Only in a banana republic are people considered guilty without evidence.

this was anti-democratic.
The right to protest the certification is not anti-democratic., it is their legal right. Since only a minority of the crowd entered the compound, you can only correctly conclude that their acts in that instance were breaking the law. And of those who entered, you cannot reasonably conclude they were all there to prevent certification.

The BLM comparison is just an attempt to distract from the real issue.
And what is the real issue, ignore those events and instead just discriminate against Trump followers? If Democrats were claiming that the BLM riots were "mostly peaceful", and yet the Trump crowd wasn't, you are operating different "truths" depending on your political affiliation. A banana republic will claim that nobody is above the law, while trreating another group differently to the one being targeted.

These events are not operating in a vacuum, however much you want them to be. If you want to have a fair and just society, it doesn't happen when you turn a blind eye to your side, while trying to incriminate the other side for something similar. Stop tuning in to MSNBC who don't want to employ anyone with opposing views, and you might get a broader perspective of opinion.
 

Mike Krailo

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Your attempts to rationalise it away by trying to figure out how many possibly were carrying guns is totally irrelevant - the people who attended, went to protest against the certification of the election result and prevent that certification (following someone who had his own ego and self interest front of mind). That is the problem, this was anti-democratic. The BLM comparison is just an attempt to distract from the real issue.
That's interesting how you now know what someone is thinking in their head as if you really knew and therefore have the right be angry about it. The actual reason they were there was obviously not to stop anything going on inside otherwise things would have been much more violence with the majority of them being armed with something other than two arms and a black belt (doubt they even had that), it was a protest plain and simple. Do you think only your party has the right to protest? Being punished for exercising your right to protest and weaponizing the gov against the people to even assemble for a protest because of your point of view is the real problem here. That was all created by the media and the incoming destroyers of our system of justice.

DJT offered the NG to Nancy and her crew and they flat out refused. I wonder why?

Threats were made - to elected reps Mike Pence, Pelosi etc. - the building was forcibly taken over to prevent the carrying out of official duties.
In post #88, we have the misguided and completely untrue conclusion that because some threats were made (by who I don't know) it was an insurrection, but threats were not made by the protesters. Mob is a label you put on a group you don't like and would rather they didn't have that right to voice their opinion about something. I don't know how you would define taking over a building, but if they had, they would actually control everything in it and would do so forcibly. No such thing happened or was even attempted. I watched the video and yes windows were broken and people were angry but that ain't taking over the building. That idea is something that those that didn't like trump supporters put in the media as a statement of truth when in fact it was obviously a lie anyone with two eyes could clearly see.

The worst thing that happened besides the supporter that was shot for entering the building was the crowd crush that hurt the protesters themselves more than anyone else. That's what happens when too many people are crowed together or pushed into a wall.
 
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Jon

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DJT offered the NG to Nancy and her crew and they flat out refused. I wonder why?
I heard about that. Didn't subsequent evidence show that they delayed deploying them, so that the impact of the crowd would be greater?
 

Jon

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I had a thought about MSNBC earlier, regarding key anchor Rachel Maddow hinding what Trump says (unless its out of context).

She said regarding a Trump speech:
'It is not an easy decision, but there is a cost to us as a news organization of knowingly broadcasting untrue things,'

There is one other place that I know of that tries to prevent its viewers of accessing alternative media: North Korea. If you want to live inside a real echo chamber, just keep watching that channel. You can then live in a delusion where everyone goes by the same narrative.
 

Steve R.

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DJT offered the NG to Nancy and her crew and they flat out refused. I wonder why?
Speculation, based on inductive reasoning; the "riot" was a false flag operation. Democrats wanted the optics of a riot at the Capital for political gain. Additionally, when you consider other events such as the January 6th Commission and the lawfare attacks on Trump to convict him of something and/or get him off the ballot; it acts as anecdotal evidence that a conspiracy by Democrats really exists. Also consider the hyperbolic negative reactions by the leftist pundits when NBC hired Ronna McDaniel. Trump Derangement Syndrome truly exists.
 
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Pat Hartman

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Didn't subsequent evidence show that they delayed deploying them
Nancy and the Mayor flatly refused the NG even though the chief of the Capitol police wanted them so they were not called up. I'm not sure if they ever came. The disturbance only lasted a couple of hours.
 

Mike Krailo

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Speculation, based on inductive reasoning; the "riot" was a false flag operation. Democrats wanted the optics of a riot at the Capital for political gain. Additionally, when you consider other events such as the January 6th Commission and the lawfare attacks on Trump to convict him of something and/or get him off the ballot; it acts as anecdotal evidence that a conspiracy by Democrats really exists. Also consider the hyperbolic negative reactions by the leftist pundits when NBC hired Ronna McDaniel. Trump Derangement Syndrome truly exists.
Exactly, and if all those supporters behaved themselves too well during the protest, they were ready with that threat on the VP over in another building (what the heck was she doing there, no one know?).

CNN —
Two pipe bombs near the Democratic and Republican party headquarters discovered on January 6 were planted the night before the insurrection at the Capitol, the FBI said Friday.
There back up plan was in place for just such a lack of mayhem. Where was that Allstate guy on jan 6 anyway?
 

Pat Hartman

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Your attempts to rationalise it away by trying to figure out how many possibly were carrying guns is totally irrelevant - the people who attended, went to protest against the certification of the election result and prevent that certification (following someone who had his own ego and self interest front of mind). That is the problem, this was anti-democratic. The BLM comparison is just an attempt to distract from the real issue.
You seem to be exhibiting symptoms of "projection". How else could you "KNOW" with absolute certainty what is going on inside another person's head? It must be horribly confusing for you to have all those people alive and well and living rent free in your head.


We have been trying to show you actual facts about that day. You persist in discarding them.
Did Nancy refuse to have the NG present?
Did the Mayor refuse to have the NG present?
Did the FBI pepper the crowd with people trying to incite the riot? (Ray Epps comes to mind)
Did the FBI drop the ball on the pipe bomber or make that up too?
Was Ashlie Babbett murdered in cold blood?
Did her murderer get off scot free because he was black and she was white and a Trump supporter so she deserved to die?

Elephant joke:
How do you tell the difference between a "mostly peaceful" protest and an insurrection?
In an insurrection, the protesters are not wearing masks, they are wearing Maga hats and there are no cop cars on fire.
 

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