Obama's Mistaken and Incromprehensible ISIS Strategy

[Frothingslosh]

No, I was pointing out your hypocrisy in holding Syrian refugees, who are largely Muslim, accountable for the actions of non-Syrian, Muslim European natives, when you don't come here condemning all White people, Christians, Americans, Gun Owners, etc when someone who falls into one of THOSE categories does something terrible.

Your stance being morally and ethically indefensible is not my problem.

 

[Bladerunner]

As pointed out many, many MANY times, Obama isn't a muslim.
This is another one of your "Dogs have four legs. My cat has four legs. Therefore my cat is a dog" pieces of reasoning.

How do you explain his wedding ring that was a ring on his finger long before he got married... The signs on his ring are the same on ISIS's flag....Rem they and him are sunni.....WOnder why he does not want a full out assault of them.

If he is not an islamist (there by a muslim who practices islam), then he is a sympathizer with the Islamic muslims namely ISIS.

Why do you think what ever he does is in their direction.

You LIBS, I sometime wonder about.

 

[Bladerunner]

No, I was pointing out your hypocrisy in holding Syrian refugees, who are largely Muslim, accountable for the actions of non-Syrian, Muslim European natives, when you don't come here condemning all White people, Christians, Americans, Gun Owners, etc when someone who falls into one of THOSE categories does something terrible.

Your stance being morally and ethically indefensible is not my problem.

Oh, Frothy,,,,,you left out the two black men that killed that Christian lady who was pregnant,,,,Did they tell you they raped her,,,What they need to do is make both of them half a transvestite before theythem hang slowly.

My guess is they are also atheist whether they know it or not...That is some of that good morals you atheist put forth out there....Some of you probably got some good ones,,,, yeah,,,, attributed to that Christian training you so vehemently reject these days..

Frothy,,,,,Do Black lives matter...and if they do,,,,why then do you and your liberal friends let them kill each other at record rates.

You speak about being compassionate. However, If only one of those refugees turns out to be a terrorist and kills several people, what is your response to that?\

Oh wait a minute,,,,," Ca surah surah surah, what ever will be will be..........

You are some kind of ????????????????????????????

Blade

 

[AccessBlaster]

Oh, Frothy,,,,,you left out the two black men that killed that Christian lady who was pregnant,,,,Did they tell you they raped her,,,What they need to do is make both of them half a transvestite before theythem hang slowly.

Wow! Are you kidding? Man this has hit a new low

 

[Frothingslosh]

Yeah, Blade has just lost his freaking mind and shown everyone what a miserable excuse for a human being he really is at this point.

He has apparently also lost the ability to speak coherently.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

It's not 'some', it's 'one', and he did that because he was almost certainly on some 'detain on sight' list. He entered the EU through Greece, whose approach to border security is pretty much "fingerprint here, sign here, have fun!", and then traveled primarily through nations known to be less than thorough in vetting travel documents.

For a refugee to get into the US, on the other hand, is far, far more difficult. There is fingerprinting, interviews, full background checks, checks against every law-enforcement and anti-terrorist database available to the US. This takes months to a year or two, during which they stay in refugee housing and are watched like hawks.

There's a reason terrorists entering the US have always gone for legitimate visas (usually student, sometimes H-1B or other work visas) rather than the refugee route: they're far less likely to get caught that way.

It is some - its 2 at least according to reports, with some others unidentified , it could yet go up, or who were on watch lists - how did they get through. I agree the US is more secure. I was talking about the EU yes.

I watched a bit of a congress/senate debate the other day (first time ever!) - 2000 or so on the US watch list have by guns legally within the US. http://www.salon.com/2015/11/18/nra..._legally_purchased_guns_in_the_last_10_years/

likely your threat come from there. Not refugees, I agree.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Where did you find the 2 number? Everything I've seen has said that only one came through as a refugee.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Where did you find the 2 number? Everything I've seen has said that only one came through as a refugee.

Its widely reported for days I think. Stade de France 2 and 3, Travelled together. Also bought tickets in Greece with 4 other. Those 4 may be innocent, maybe not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34832512

 

[Alc]

How do you explain his wedding ring that was a ring on his finger long before he got married... The signs on his ring are the same on ISIS's flag....Rem they and him are sunni.....WOnder why he does not want a full out assault of them.

No, the'yre not
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-obama-wedding-ring.htm

If he is not an islamist (there by a muslim who practices islam), then he is a sympathizer with the Islamic muslims namely ISIS.

Why do you think what ever he does is in their direction.

No idea what this even means. "Whatever he does is in their direction"?
What actual evidence do you have that he supports ISIS? I mean PROPER evidence, not articles from extremist websites.

You LIBS, I sometime wonder about.

Yep, relying on facts and stuff. I bet you really can't get your head around that notion? Must be so much easier to get an idea in your head - or have one handed to you by WND - and just go with it, regardless of lack of evidence. I guess being religious helps with the whole "not questioning anything"?

 

[Alc]

Yeah, Blade has just lost his freaking mind and shown everyone what a miserable excuse for a human being he really is at this point.

He has apparently also lost the ability to speak coherently.

Lost? Which recent posts were coherent?

 

[Frothingslosh]

Lost? Which recent posts were coherent?

Point.

Its widely reported for days I think. Stade de France 2 and 3, Travelled together. Also bought tickets in Greece with 4 other. Those 4 may be innocent, maybe not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34832512

That's interesting, and actually easily missed. A google search mostly shows news sites saying one or two did - the few that say three using the search "how many paris attackers came through greece" are buried in the other results. I'll have to admit, though, I've been busy working my way through Fallout 4 and haven't been paying quite as detailed attention to the news as is my usual wont.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Point.



That's interesting, and actually easily missed. A google search mostly shows news sites saying one or two did - the few that say three using the search "how many paris attackers came through greece" are buried in the other results. I'll have to admit, though, I've been busy working my way through Fallout 4 and haven't been paying quite as detailed attention to the news as is my usual wont.

Hypothetically speaking how high would the number have to be, before you would reconsider your position?

 

[Frothingslosh]

I've already ceded that it's 'more than one'. Whether I go with 'a few' or 'some' boils down to semantics and what you and I feel each word covers.

As to my position, my arguments on this thread are whether or not refugees are an actual threat to the US. Blade and Steve seem to feel that refugees are an immediate and vital threat to US civilians, regardless of the facts of how refugees entering the US are processed, and the fact that Greece uses the 'swiss cheese' model of border security doesn't change the intensive screening that refugees coming HERE go through.

If you're asking whether my stance on the OP remains unchanged (namely whether or not the West should refuse all Syrian refugees because some of them may be terrorists, and whether or not NATO should invade Syria), then it has: accepting people trying to flee from the animals trying to slaughter them is the right thing to do, and an invasion of Syria in order to attack ISIS would almost certainly work even less well than it did in Iraq.

 

[Steve R.]

No, I was pointing out your hypocrisy in holding Syrian refugees, who are largely Muslim, accountable for the actions of non-Syrian, Muslim European natives, when you don't come here condemning all White people, Christians, Americans, Gun Owners, etc when someone who falls into one of THOSE categories does something terrible.

Your stance being morally and ethically indefensible is not my problem

Again, you seem to have a reading comprehension problem. Please highlight were I ever expressed: "... holding Syrian refugees, who are largely Muslim, accountable for the actions of non-Syrian, Muslim European natives,..". It is morally and ethically indefensible of you to mischaracterize what I have stated.

You also seem to have difficulty with the concept that being a born in a country does not necessarily make you a "native". How many Kurds born and currently living in Turkey really would consider themselves Turkish? How many Basques, born in and currently living in Spain would consider themselves Spanish? Prior to 1922, how many Irish (living in what is now the Republic of Ireland) would have considered themselves English? What about the dissolution of Czechoslovakia into two separate countries?

Being born in France, Belgium, or Germany may make you a legal "native", but it may not make you a "native" in terms of your viewpoint. You may still consider yourself to "belong" to the "old country" whatever it may be. Consequently, even though you may be a native citizen of the EU by birth, you may still take-up the (fanatical) cause of your religious and/or ethnic background.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Point.



That's interesting, and actually easily missed. A google search mostly shows news sites saying one or two did - the few that say three using the search "how many paris attackers came through greece" are buried in the other results. I'll have to admit, though, I've been busy working my way through Fallout 4 and haven't been paying quite as detailed attention to the news as is my usual wont.

Sorry meant nobheads no.s 2 and 3 at the stade de france came the refugee route. As its buried in the text the actual info.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Frothy,,,,,Do Black lives matter...and if they do,,,,why then do you and your liberal friends let them kill each other at record rates.

Blade... Have you forgotten the most important aspect of Christianity? Free will is an absolute necessity, since without it you cannot make choices that would lead to your own redemption. Can a rock enter Heaven? Last I heard, the answer is "NO" because a rock cannot choose between good and evil. A gun can't enter Heaven either, same reason. There is some question as to at what point something CAN enter Heaven (philosophically speaking) because there is some question as to at what point in evolution free will enters the picture.

So... why do we let people kill each other at record rates? Because in order to stop them, we have to take away THEIR free will. At best, we can hope to incarcerate them (thus reducing their free will) after commission of some violent crime.

But incarcerating them beforehand? That is like saying, "I think you are going to commit a crime" just because you are a person walking in a neighborhood other than your own. I believe that is called "profiling" and cops aren't supposed to do that any more. They have this little thing called "right to due process" and a few other pesky little rights ("freedom from unreasonable search and seizure" for another one) that mean you have to give folks enough rope to hang themselves and can't stop them ahead of time.

 

[Frothingslosh]

You know, Steve, I don't see why you have such difficulty with the concept that someone born in one nation cannot, by definition, be a refugee from another nation.

Even a three year old can figure that out, so why does it give you so much difficulty?

The discussion, after all, no matter how much you try to obfuscate, is about refugees, not traitors.

 

[Alc]

The discussion, after all, ........ is about refugees, not traitors.

I think this is the salient point. People turning against their own country is a problem, but definitely not the same thing as entering a country under refugee status then turning on that country.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Blade... Have you forgotten the most important aspect of Christianity? Free will is an absolute necessity, since without it you cannot make choices that would lead to your own redemption. Can a rock enter Heaven? Last I heard, the answer is "NO" because a rock cannot choose between good and evil. A gun can't enter Heaven either, same reason. There is some question as to at what point something CAN enter Heaven (philosophically speaking) because there is some question as to at what point in evolution free will enters the picture.

So... why do we let people kill each other at record rates? Because in order to stop them, we have to take away THEIR free will. At best, we can hope to incarcerate them (thus reducing their free will) after commission of some violent crime.

But incarcerating them beforehand? That is like saying, "I think you are going to commit a crime" just because you are a person walking in a neighborhood other than your own. I believe that is called "profiling" and cops aren't supposed to do that any more. They have this little thing called "right to due process" and a few other pesky little rights ("freedom from unreasonable search and seizure" for another one) that mean you have to give folks enough rope to hang themselves and can't stop them ahead of time.

Perhaps Blade subscribes to Calvinist theology? After all, if your salvation is preordained, then it doesn't matter at all how much you hate your fellow man.

I think we both know that Blade would have no issue with preemptively incarcerating all non-whites. He's already repeatedly expressed his opinion on the undesirability of Mexicans in America; links to white-supremacist sites aside, his comments here and in the Atheist thread a couple months back show that he thinks black people are violently dangerous menaces to society who are just slavering over any chance to murder people; and he's OBVIOUSLY terrified that the scary Arab people are pouring into the States in order to murder him in his sleep. The perfect solution? If he can't have them all killed, then locking them all up and throwing away the key will do just fine!

 

[Steve R.]

Getting back to the original intent of this thread. Obama just a few minutes ago, on TV, reiterated the robust vetting process that the Syrian refugees would supposedly undergo before they would be admitted into the US. Furthermore, that this process would take approximately 2-3 years.

One of the biggest problems that I have with Obama advocations concerns what he leaves unsaid. This is an immediate humanitarian crisis that can't really wait 2-3 years for resolution. Unsaid, where will these people be temporarily housed while this vetting process is occurring?

The news articles that I have read make no mention of where or how the refugees will be taken care-of during the 2-3 year waiting period pending the vetting process. The UN refugee camps? Will Obama, in a few months, waive vetting as a humanitarian gesture? Does anyone know?