Obama's Mistaken and Incromprehensible ISIS Strategy

[Libre]

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
Susan B. Anthony
1896

"ISIS" no more represents Islam than the KKK represents Christianity.
God

Dear Atheists,
Thank you for not blowing people up over made-up nonsense.
Keep up the good work,
God

 

[Bladerunner]

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
Susan B. Anthony
1896

"ISIS" no more represents Islam than the KKK represents Christianity.
God

Dear Atheists,
Thank you for not blowing people up over made-up nonsense.
Keep up the good work,
God

you still don't get it either or maybe someone in your ear is telling you it is a good thing.?

 

[Bladerunner]

There are now 12 Jewish groups (with the recent addition of the Orthodox Union) urging the acceptance of Syrian refugees:

www. haaretz. Com /jewish/news/1.687407 (spaces added since I can't post links yet)

It's nice to see some religious organizations aligning with human decency...even the Satanist group offering to escort afraid Muslims in America...

Religion is not necessary to be good and moral.

The world will never be 'safe'...whether some white guy in America goes apesh!t or 1 in 10,000 refugees turns out to be a terrorist. Is it a shame that other closer nations that are Muslim have turned them away? Sure..but we can be above that. Xenophobia is so selfish. I'd rather help others (and be part of a country that does) at the risk of a little less safety. How else will the world transition from an "us vs them" mentality to just an "us" mentality?

It is evident yoiu do not care how many people these 1 or 2 terrorist kill....... Its that Feeeeeeeeell Gooooooooooooood attitude.

 

[Bladerunner]

1. Helping people is right. It'll take a lot more than some brainwashed zealot to convince me or anyone else capable of thinking for their self otherwise.
2. How many have been in the refugees so far? I think you'll find it's a nice round number. Come back when you have some actual evidence to support your xenophobic bullsh*t.
3. You haven't used the word scum but you have explicitly said that anyone who doesn't believe the same fairy story crap that you've fallen for is wrong.

that was not what I said and you know it......
You still did not answer my question,,,how many are to die for these refugees are agreeable with you and Frothy.

 

[Bladerunner]

The irony here is breathtaking.

still no answer from either one of you....HOW MANY?

 

[Bladerunner]

Instead of throwing ad hominem attacks. How about answering the question. Furthermore, I obviously have no knowledge yet concerning whether Obama will "evolve" on the refugee issue since it is in the future.

However, politicians are known to make statements which they later refute based on what they may assert as new knowledge. One being Bush's "read my lips". Another being Obama's: President Obama's "Deferred Action" Program for Illegal Aliens Is Plainly Unconstitutional .

Come-on now. Would you really believe that Obama would disclose now that he will refute, in the future, his current stance on vetting? I don't think so. So there is now way for me to know.

Steve.... the vetting process is Assad's Syrian databases on these people. and These liberals are going to believe him. Saudi Arabia will not why should we.

 

[Bladerunner]

Thanks. I usually read from a 'safe' distance.

To Blade and Steve, how many Muslims already in America do you think would become radicalized or gain terrorist leanings if we refused and pressed on with the blather we have seen from so many governors and high-ranking republican officials? To quote some numbers being thrown around, 1 or 2 in 25,000?

There will always be unanticipated effects, and what may seem like a good idea to "keep 'em all out if it means 1 less terrorist in 'Murica" may actual create more than if all the refugees were let in. Refusing all refugees would certainly create more enemies than friends.

Just like on this board, enemies don't easily become friends in the world. Let's not rush to make new ones. And why should we? By allowing these, who have become the least of the least, we make more friends and gain people who could contribute to the melting pot that is America. And we would strengthen the character and moral fiber of our country in the process.

Yep, a communal mentality,,,,,, and you don't care how many of us die so you can make new friends and Feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel Goooooooooooood about yourself.

 

[Bladerunner]

True, and the Republicans wouldn't be able to play on the irrational fears that well-off white people have of people possessing the Hispanic vote, Black vote, etc.

I would like to ask a question that maybe you can or will answer..Feel free Frothy to jump in and give your answer also.

These well-off WHITE people,,,,,,do they include liberal well-off WHITE people.

Oh, I forgot,,,,we live under a duel system, one for the liberals and one for the conservatives. I'll answer for you NO

 

[Bladerunner]

Frothy in the late 1930 to 1940's America was an anti-semitic country.... We are not a country of anti Syrian. We just don't trust OBAMA (with good reason) protect our people. Maybe,,,,we could talk him into placing one refugee family (unit) with one liberal family.......

 

[Libre]

you still don't get it either or maybe someone in your ear is telling you it is a good thing.?

I "get it", Bladerunner.
We "feeeel gooooood" liberals have some lofty ideals - pacifism, tolerance for other people, non-violence, hatred of oppression and racism, love of Liberty, freedom of thought, curiosity, equality of the sexes, acceptance of different orientations - all the things that the religious right abhor.
Maybe that's why we feel so good.
You could give it a try - you know, there's even a possibility that you'd find these values are not so wrong minded after all.
Of course, that would require you to clean out all the cobwebs and cotton balls between your ears and that would take some doing. But the thing about we liberals is, we don't write anybody off completely. Who knows - you might even find your way to a more rational and enlightened way of thinking. And boy, does it ever feeeeel goooooooood!
Even the Pope is sounding a little like a libby these days. Looks happy, too. Compare with the previous stone faced pontiff.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Nah, he's much more comfortable hating those who are different from him.

His oft-expressed contempt for basic human decency shows that, much less his blatant racism.

I mean, I would love for him to some day discover love for his fellow man, but I've seen too many like him to have any real hope that he will ever become a decent person.

Also, you might want to fix this part:

hatred of oppression, racism, freedom of thought, curiosity, equality of the sexes, acceptance of different orientations

Should probably be 'hatred of oppression and racism,...'

 

[Alc]

Originally Posted by Alc
1. Helping people is right. It'll take a lot more than some brainwashed zealot to convince me or anyone else capable of thinking for their self otherwise.
2. How many have been in the refugees so far? I think you'll find it's a nice round number. Come back when you have some actual evidence to support your xenophobic bullsh*t.
3. You haven't used the word scum but you have explicitly said that anyone who doesn't believe the same fairy story crap that you've fallen for is wrong.

that was not what I said and you know it......

It what way was it not what you said? You are a scared, selfish , xenophobe, hiding behind your made-up creator and your bullsh*t book of fairy stories. No, I take that back, fairy stories are at least consistent. How anyone can claim both to follow the fictional teachings of jesus AND to think "f*ck the poor and needy, I'm alright", beggars belief.

You still did not answer my question,,,how many are to die for these refugees are agreeable with you and Frothy.

None. None are acceptable.
Now let's see if someone can get a straight answer out of you for once. Quotes from the fairy story book don't count as a straight answer, by the way. Nor from right wing extremist websites. It has to be something you yourself think (assuming you can). How many refugees from Syria have committed terrorist acts? You're so sh*t scared of these people, you must have a reason? I mean, even god doesn't tell you to do it, so possibly you had an idea of your own at some point? Why, when there is far more risk from students, tourists and natural-born residents, are you so sure that people running from the terrorists are the ones to be scared of?

These well-off WHITE people,,,,,,do they include liberal well-off WHITE people.

Oh, I forgot,,,,we live under a duel system, one for the liberals and one for the conservatives. I'll answer for you NO

No, you're right, just the selfish, right wing, racists who forget that the US was founded by immigrants and want to keep all future ones out, especially if they're the wrong colour or religion.

 

[Frothingslosh]

You know, 8 posts last night by Blade last night, and there wasn't a single true statement among them.

Hell, there wasn't even a logical statement among them.

There were, however, all sorts of attacks against people for showing what Bladerunner considers the most vile of human traits: compassion.

 

[Alc]

You know, 8 posts last night by Blade last night, and there wasn't a single true statement among them.

Hell, there wasn't even a logical statement among them.

There were, however, all sorts of attacks against people for showing what Bladerunner considers the most vile of human traits: compassion.

If I were coming from outside and reading this thread, I think I'd get half way into it and genuinely have to go back to the start and double check who was claiming to follow Christian values and who was an atheist heathen. Based on the few countries I've lived in, the church is usually the first to push for supporting the needy, but it's the opposite here.

Not to detract from Steve's posts, but they're always aimed at criticizing Obama, so he's at least consistent. Blade's are like a member of PETA coming on here and talking about how slaughter houses are too "feeeeel gooood".

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Blade, I saw the burst of posts. They just kept coming and coming. It almost seemed like an act of mental masturbation. I hope you feel better now.

I'm a little bit curious. I'll have to paraphrase because at the moment I don't have my copy of the bibble handy, but isn't there a passage in there about not rejecting people, but rather accepting them in hopes of eventually converting them to your own ways? It's a New Testament passage. The idea that I got from it was that you accept and teach. You don't reject and kill. If you want to talk OT vs. NT, I'm pretty sure the passages about forgiveness and acceptance and peace and aiding the poor ALL come from the NT. The other bibble quoters here talk about how the NT is the more modern part and replaces (at least in part) the principles of the OT.

So... where is all that forgiveness? What happened to it?

 

[Frothingslosh]

If I were coming from outside and reading this thread, I think I'd get half way into it and genuinely have to go back to the start and double check who was claiming to follow Christian values and who was an atheist heathen. Based on the few countries I've lived in, the church is usually the first to push for supporting the needy, but it's the opposite here.

Not to detract from Steve's posts, but they're always aimed at criticizing Obama, so he's at least consistent. Blade's are like a member of PETA coming on here and talking about how slaughter houses are too "feeeeel gooood".

To be fair, don't take Blade to be a typical Christian. He is your prototypical Fox News conservative, unquestioning in his devotion to those who pander to his fears and hatreds, and quite representative of those who support the SBC, the AFA, the various megachurches, and the whole 'Christian Reconstructionist' movement, but there are many, many churches here who do NOT support hatred and condemnation of the weak and the needy. There are, admittedly, a LOT who do, and they're the ones who are always in the news, but they are NOT omnipresent.

Hell, there are even a few straight-up accepting denominations here and there.

 

[jeremy.lankenau]

It is evident yoiu do not care how many people these 1 or 2 terrorist kill....... Its that Feeeeeeeeell Gooooooooooooood attitude.

That is laughable, suggesting that I care so much about feeling good and reaching out to foreigners that I would write off the lives of my countrymen. Do you only see in black and white?

I'm an army vet, I've seen friends get shot and lose limbs in front of me. I've eliminated terrorist threats. But you can see all that in a movie or in a news broadcast and think you understand? I wish you could smell death like I have, you don't get that from your flatscreen and armchair. I don't come from some fantasy-land where everyone holds hands and sings "We are the world".

I speak from experience. I'm very well aware of the need for security. I know what it is to BE the overextended arm of America. I'd rather make friends than enemies. I'd rather promote a culture of life than death.

 

[Alc]

consider that the real blather may be coming from the progressive left which is chipping away at US values.

Let's say that it's someone's beliefs that make then American. After all, as you've observed, someone who clings to their family's history and country of origin may be born in the US but might not hold what you and many others feel to be American beliefs.
1. What are official US values, as opposed to your own personal values? I'm guessing you see a lot of - if not total - overlap.
2. Does that make people who feel differently about any of those American values un-American? Or is it only if every belief they hold differs? Up to what point are someone's beliefs allowed to differ from yours, before they stop being an American?

 

[Bladerunner]

That is laughable, suggesting that I care so much about feeling good and reaching out to foreigners that I would write off the lives of my countrymen. Do you only see in black and white?

I'm an army vet, I've seen friends get shot and lose limbs in front of me. I've eliminated terrorist threats. But you can see all that in a movie or in a news broadcast and think you understand? I wish you could smell death like I have, you don't get that from your flatscreen and armchair. I don't come from some fantasy-land where everyone holds hands and sings "We are the world".

I speak from experience. I'm very well aware of the need for security. I know what it is to BE the overextended arm of America. I'd rather make friends than enemies. I'd rather promote a culture of life than death.

It is fine you had rather make new friends then send them money like SA is doing...Support those who will house them. It is ludicrous to even think about bringing them over here unless we know who they are. Oh, and I am not worried about the Muslims here... Have they spoken out against the Islamic terrorist?NO.... The only ones I trust are the ones that have converted to Christianity and have publicly denounced Islam. Its not the Christianity that I trust so much because anyone (as we see in this and other threads in this forum) can claim they are who they are not. What I do trust is the Public denouncement of Islam as this puts them in harms way along with the rest of us. Something OBAMA has not yet done and he was taught to be a good Muslim and it shows. And he still wears "Ala is Great" ring.

Whether you served or not I do not know and if you did, I thank you for your service. But you are not alone since there are those who saw a nastier part of war during the Viet-Nam era. The wars of the so-called peaceful Muslims trying to annihilate the Jewish people for simply living or rather being God's chosen people. Did you know there were up to five nations against them at one time.

Your feel good Liberal attitudes places the people you and I love in harms way...Yes, it is a small percentage but it is there...SO

Please answer the Question......HOW MANY!

One more question : Would you be willing to place a group of them in your neighborhood? If the answer is yes,,,then that is the answer.

p.s. by the way,,,,I have seen enough death (25 years of it) to last me the rest of my life.

Blade

 

[Alc]

To be fair, don't take Blade to be a typical Christian. He is your prototypical Fox News conservative, unquestioning in his devotion to those who pander to his fears and hatreds, and quite representative of those who support the SBC, the AFA, the various megachurches, and the whole 'Christian Reconstructionist' movement, but there are many, many churches here who do NOT support hatred and condemnation of the weak and the needy. There are, admittedly, a LOT who do, and they're the ones who are always in the news, but they are NOT omnipresent.

Hell, there are even a few straight-up accepting denominations here and there.

From the outside, the US has long seemed to me to be where the UK was a few decades back, when it comes to religion. While I firmly believe the world would be a batter place without it, I have to admit that plenty of people ONLY do good because they think god wants them to. It's depressing that they can't do it based on their own judgment, but if it works it works, right?

Where is gets worrying is when that damn book is used to justify NOT being nice to people. They can't be nice because it makes sense for the world as whole, and they can't be nice when their story book tells them to be nice. I really get the impression that these people are really holding the country back and it makes me worry a bit.