Are you an atheist? (1 Viewer)

[Galaxiom]

Atheism is a religion or faith as there no proof that God or gods or whatever don't exist.

An atheist "believes" the absence of evidence is sufficient for him/her to have faith that a god or gods don't exist.

Your nonsensical claim has already been debunked over and over again.

If the absence of a belief is a religion then everybody subscribes to an infinite number of religions each denying the existence of an imaginable entity for which there is no evidence.

 

[Mike375]

Simple question. Do you have proof that God or gods do not exist?

 

[Galaxiom]

Simple question. Do you have proof that God or gods do not exist?

Of course we can't provide evidence since a negative cannot be proved.

However choosing not to believe in gods (unicorns, fairies, zoogoos, dagabaths, longuples, facaturns or any other fanciful notion) is a reasonable decision based on observation and intellect.

This decision cannot be intelligently construed as religious or faith based. Only an abject fool would do so.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

It seems to me that every time someone is cured of some disease and the onlookers say "It's a miracle and proves that God exists" - these people must be ignorant of the Douglas Adams "Babel Fish" argument.

Mike, you need to hope that we cannot ever prove that God DOES exist, because the moment we do, His son's "only through faith" disclaimer is proved to be a lie, which completely destroys any chance of His existence. And we don't know if, at the time Jesus said those words, He was speaking as the Son or the Trinity - since the three are one. But if that was the Trinity speaking, then all three are destroyed at once by finding even the smallest scintilla of proof. And that is enough to show the absurdity of it all, which is (dis-)proof enough for me.

 

[Vassago]

Mike, you need to hope that we cannot ever prove that God DOES exist, because the moment we do, His son's "only through faith" disclaimer is proved to be a lie, which completely destroys any chance of His existence. And we don't know if, at the time Jesus said those words, He was speaking as the Son or the Trinity - since the three are one. But if that was the Trinity speaking, then all three are destroyed at once by finding even the smallest scintilla of proof. And that is enough to show the absurdity of it all, which is (dis-)proof enough for me.

That's an interesting argument. I've never looked at it that way before.

Of course, God(s) could change their mind(s) and decide to do away with the "only through faith" assertion. After all, no humans went to heaven until Jesus was born and died according to Christianity.

 

[Minty]

I think the excellent film Dogma had a moment like this where - Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are fallen angels who have found a loophole to get back into heaven.

In order to do this, they must become human. When Matt Damon becomes human, he gets a sudden burst of conscience and decides not to go back realising that it would unmake the world if they proved God wrong. Ergo self fulfilling prophecy!

I still like the idea of the Budweiser Unicorn though. Can you order them on-line?

 

[Frothingslosh]

This decision cannot be intelligently construed as religious or faith based. Only an abject fool would do so.

Dayum, Galaxiom, I thought 'overly aggressive debater' was MY role!

I still like the idea of the Budweiser Unicorn though. Can you order them on-line?

Afraid I still need to find one first.

 

[Minty]

Afraid I still need to find one first.

You only need belief


apparently

 

[Frothingslosh]

Or, apparently, lack thereof.

Perhaps we believe in it too much?

 

[Mike375]

It seems to me that every time someone is cured of some disease and the onlookers say "It's a miracle and proves that God exists" - these people must be ignorant of the Douglas Adams "Babel Fish" argument.

Mike, you need to hope that we cannot ever prove that God DOES exist, because the moment we do, His son's "only through faith" disclaimer is proved to be a lie, which completely destroys any chance of His existence. And we don't know if, at the time Jesus said those words, He was speaking as the Son or the Trinity - since the three are one. But if that was the Trinity speaking, then all three are destroyed at once by finding even the smallest scintilla of proof. And that is enough to show the absurdity of it all, which is (dis-)proof enough for me.

Except I am not discussion the Christian religion. Note I have said many times...Gor or gods or whatever...

As to not be able to prove a negative can't you prove the following:

80 cms does not equal 3 ft
300 grams does not equal 1 pound etc.

In the case of an atheist he/her has insufficient evidence that anything outside physics exists and that results in a belief etc.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Mike:

OK, technically I left out a word. You can't disprove a universal negative. Saying "there does not exist an example of X" is a universal negative. Saying that 80 cms does not equal 3 ft is not a universal negative. It is a specific negative.

Regarding the other issue:

I still like the idea of the Budweiser Unicorn though. Can you order them on-line?

We can't get them in New Orleans due to a special property of unicorns. No virgins here.

Sorry, it's an old local joke.

 

[Galaxiom]

Saying that 80 cms does not equal 3 ft is not a universal negative. It is a specific negative.

Actually "does not equal" is a positive statement and hence can be proven.

 

[Minty]

In the case of an atheist he/her has insufficient evidence that anything outside physics exists and that results in a belief etc.

Mike you misunderstand / don't know what a belief is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief
note the first couple of sentences please.

Your assertion above is wrong.

 

[Mike375]

Mike you misunderstand / don't know what a belief is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief
note the first couple of sentences please.

Your assertion above is wrong.

"Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty"

Do you have evidence there is no Gog, gods or whatever? Obviously you don't and neither does anyone else.

As a side note for the insects and little lizards in the garden we are like a god and with super natural powers.

Being a god or gods or whatever does not require them to be all powerful and all knowing. Let's not confuse a lack of belief in the Abrahamic religions as being a true atheist.

 

[Galaxiom]

"Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty"

Quite different from not thinking that something is the case.

Do you have evidence there is no Gog, gods or whatever? Obviously you don't and neither does anyone else.

That does not make it a religious belief.

As a side note for the insects and little lizards in the garden we are like a god and with super natural powers.

The absence of the ability in a lizard to comprehend the nature of humans does not make us gods. Neither would the advanced technologies of an alien civilisation render them as gods.

You use the term "god" far too loosely in order to support your ill-founded assertion of atheism being a religious belief.

 

[Mike375]

You use the term "god" far too loosely in order to support your ill-founded assertion of atheism being a religious belief.

You seem to be suggesting your atheism relates to Abrahamic religions.

However assuming that is not the case atheism is a belief based on the evidence you have available. That is exactly the same situation as people who have a belief in "there is something there"

The bottom line is each side simply does not know. Both sides believe they have sufficient evidence to express a belief.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

My story may or may not be typical. I used to believe. One day after my mother reached stage three of Alzheimer's, I went to the Bible for comfort. However, in that state of mind, I could not find it no matter how hard I searched. All the words that seemed so important before were now useless to me. (Well, most of them. I still believe that 'forgiveness' is a good thing.)

In essence, the Abrahamic God's book didn't stand up to deeper inspection. All it did was to catalogue stories that, under scrutiny, were simply repetition of older legends. But the assertions of the existence of a God, and by extension, the existence of any being or entity holding that position in ANY religion, quickly fell apart too.

My introspection and my deeper inspection of the Bible led me to realize that many religious people are very much like that old country-western song, "Looking for Love in All the Wrong Places." People are looking for cause in a universe based on probability and statistics.

The writing is decent but not great, but Jean Auel's "Earth's Children" series shows a great bit of anthropology research into ancient customs where primitive people did not understand the basic concept of reality: Stuff happens! I find that series, which is a bit boring in some parts, nonetheless captures the primitive way of thinking that every event in every life is shaped by outside forces which they tend to anthropomorphize.

The Zen viewpoint, on the other hand, looks at questions as sometimes being wrong to ask in the first place. Q: "Why did this happen to me?" A: "Because stuff happens." Any other answer is an attempt to somehow make you feel special because some magical mystical being "has a plan for you."

I am also reminded of the movie A Few Good Men and the infamous scene between Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson: "I want the truth." "You can't handle the truth." And that statement, when transferred to people who cower in religious fear, is absolutely true. They can't handle the truth - that each of us, though perhaps special to our family and friends, is just another speck in an incomprehensibly large universe. In a small environment, we ARE special. In the greater scheme of things, we are like the countless grains of sand blowing in a desert.

 

[Mike375]

As far as the Abrahamic religions go I was out of them by the time I was teenager.

I have had many discussions with Born Again Christians and ones who have a high education ie. dentists, dental specialists and medical specialists.

For me the single big hole is the all knowing and all powerful God. Some answer that objection with something like.....He does not need to use his foreknowledge.......or we can't expect to understand the actions or thinking of such a being.

As a group medical specialists are in the main....something must be there .....and this is definitely a product of their occupation.

My beliefs swing around a bit but generally the core is there is some outside force but I think it is limited, that is, it is not in the after life category etc. I do believe in some form of mental telepathy and individuals differ how much they radiate and also differ in the receiving department.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Mike, in re telepathy and other "powers of the mind" that you mentioned: The "psi" factor cannot be discounted but doesn't lead to supreme beings. It leads to "there are more things under Heaven and Earth ... than are dreamt of in your philosophy" (quoting the Bard). In other words, we know a lot but we don't know it all. And to that, I would agree. Hell, for all I know some of that stuff is a form of mental quantum entanglement. And given the tangled logic I so often see from the religious types, it couldn't happen to a nicer group!

I am also reminded of a quote from Arthur C Clarke that is relevant to the tendency of folks to anthropomorphize (DAMN that's an awkward word!) anything they can't understand due to their limited or totally lacking skills in science: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Folks say, "I'm cured and it was a miracle." But they don't want to hear someone add "Yes, a miracle of modern science."

I agree with you on the nature of the Abrahamic hole / gap. The logical inconsistencies associated with an all-knowing, all-seeing God figure acting as judge, jury, and executioner are SO extreme that it is almost nauseating.

 

[aziz rasul]

100% atheist, but if I found myself standing before the pearly gates (or the gate to hell) I could be persuaded to change my mind.

If you are sincerely seeking God, then I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that you will ‘find’ Him. Look at my post #5830.

Human reproduction process - one spermatozoon, out of 100's of millions, enters the egg and is secured, the fertilised egg becomes a clot and eventually implants itself to the wall of the uterus, referred to as implantation.

Moreover We placed him as a drop (nutfah) in a safe lodging. Then We created the drop (nutfah) into a clinging clot (alaqah).
Qur’an – Surah al-Mu’minun (The Believers) 23:13-14