what system is best? (1 Viewer)

[conception_native_0123]

since the doc man and I arguing about his i thought i would ask everyone. which system is best? everyone seems to think capitalism is best but i wonder if there is another system that could be created. does everyone think?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

As I am the other protagonist in the discussion, I will step away for a while to let folks answer.

 

[conception_native_0123]

Oh oh doc man you are great disappointment hahaha

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Or perhaps just waiting to see if you attract any comments from others. I KNOW your position.

 

[conception_native_0123]

Haha how do you presume to know so much?

 

[Isaac]

whatever keeps us free

 

[conception_native_0123]

You mean whatever keeps Us out of slave control isaac?

 

[Isaac]

just as free as possible

 

[conception_native_0123]

Well I don't think people that want to take over America at the moment are going to comply with that statement of yours Isaac

 

[conception_native_0123]

The reason is very simple.....

They are hiding their rage about all the jobs that have been lost because of unnecessary corporate automation. But that's life. If they CAN screw you over, they WILL. That is the unwritten rule of the United States of America :-(

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Now we get specific: The people who want to take over America, you say...

Can you be more specific? And when you answer that, also tell us WHY they want to take us over? Is it perhaps envy at what we have? Because the sad part is that they could have it for themselves simply by recognizing the main difference between capitalism and communism or extreme socialism.

In capitalism there is the possibility to improve your lot in life through your own labor in a direction you choose for yourself. Self-motivated people succeed. In extreme cases of socialism and in communism, there is no incentive to improve your lot in life because you don't own or enjoy the benefits of what you do. Hell, we see that now with the USA's extended unemployment benefits, which are theorized as one reason that our economy is recovering slowly.

@conception_native_0123 - if you would study the work of Herbert Maslow (an economist from the 20th century) you would understand better the idea that motivation is incredibly important in the success of any system. Capitalism comes to the forefront by rewarding innovation or initiative.

If you want to talk about the ultimate socialism, look at ants or bees, both of which have a hive-based ecology. They are perfectly content but there is no innovation because they have no imagination. They can't dream of some particular success and strive for it. The workers go out to look for food, they bring it back to the nest. They eat. They die. The queen makes more workers. Repeat ad infinitum. That is a perfect example of communism, but it requires brainless creatures to make it work.

Humans aren't brainless. They have dreams, aspirations, ambitions - and some of them actually DO something to make those dreams come true. But they can't do so in a society that offers no chance to "do your own thing."

Isaac said the best system is the one that keeps us free. I'll elaborate. It's the one that keeps us free to choose what we want to do so that we can develop self-motivation. We have an old adage that (I'll paraphrase) says "If you can find work that you enjoy, you will always feel successful."

 

[conception_native_0123]

Now we get specific: The people who want to take over America, you say...

Can you be more specific? And when you answer that, also tell us WHY they want to take us over? Is it perhaps envy at what we have? Because the sad part is that they could have it for themselves simply by recognizing the main difference between capitalism and communism or extreme socialism.

i did not mean another country doc man. i meant the people in government and in corporations. democrats? they just want to take over and rule and not give anyone else a chance. that what you want to hear? that is what I meant.

@conception_native_0123 - if you would study the work of Herbert Maslow (an economist from the 20th century) you would understand better the idea that motivation is incredibly important in the success of any system. Capitalism comes to the forefront by rewarding innovation or initiative.

If you want to talk about the ultimate socialism, look at ants or bees, both of which have a hive-based ecology. They are perfectly content but there is no innovation because they have no imagination. They can't dream of some particular success and strive for it. The workers go out to look for food, they bring it back to the nest. They eat. They die. The queen makes more workers. Repeat ad infinitum. That is a perfect example of communism, but it requires brainless creatures to make it work.

Humans aren't brainless. They have dreams, aspirations, ambitions - and some of them actually DO something to make those dreams come true. But they can't do so in a society that offers no chance to "do your own thing."

I have nothing to disagree with you about in the aborve that I quote you on.

Isaac said the best system is the one that keeps us free. I'll elaborate. It's the one that keeps us free to choose what we want to do so that we can develop self-motivation. We have an old adage that (I'll paraphrase) says "If you can find work that you enjoy, you will always feel successful."

i huave nothing to argue on this point either. you bring up great point. people NEED to feel successful. that is what gives them happiness in life. so, most of what you said, yes, I agree with.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The reason is very simple.....

They are hiding their rage about all the jobs that have been lost because of unnecessary corporate automation. But that's life. If they CAN screw you over, they WILL. That is the unwritten rule of the United States of America :-(

OK, here I will call bull crap.

Jobs are ALSO lost in Japan and South Korea and Germany and Russia to automation. WE HAVE NO MONOPOLY on that fact. You TOTALLY miss the fact that automation is a world-wide phenomenon. The REAL rage is that people don't like CHANGE, but have to change what they do because they are living in the past. The old way of doing things doesn't produce enough to meet demand. Hate to break it to you, but there are not enough people in the world to do all of the things that need to be done without automating a lot of it. That is because demand for services is driven by population growth. Don't look to the USA - our population isn't growing that fast. Get your head out of the sand and look around!

And the "screw you over" rule again is NOT exclusive to the USA. You know who has the biggest enclaves of hackers who are trying to screw over the world? Russia, China, several African nations, several Middle Eastern nations. THEY want to screw you over.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

i did not mean another country doc man. i meant the people in government and in corporations. democrats? they just want to take over and rule and not give anyone else a chance. that what you want to hear? that is what I meant.

That's called politics. EVERY COUNTRY has that problem in some form or another. Every country has people vying for control. Places like North Korea perform the ULTIMATE screw job over their people. Their fat little runt of a dictator wants people to donate food to the Army! His people are already starving so he pees his money down the military drain rather than trying to lift his people out of poverty by pushing education and entrepreneurship. He suppresses rights of his people. Do you complain about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea? No, because the USA is too easy a target for your griping. Learn a bit more about the world before complaining about us so much.

 

[conception_native_0123]

The old way of doing things doesn't produce enough to meet demand.

WHAT old way? i talking about corporations going over board with cost savvings. if they can FIND a way to milk the system and screw over people they don't need, they WILL do it. it is fact of life. automation is necessary, yes, but not to degree it has become. do you not think so? that is the rule of corporations in general all over world.

Hate to break it to you, but there are not enough people in the world to do all of the things that need to be done without automating a lot of it. That is because demand for services is driven by population growth. Don't look to the USA - our population isn't growing that fast. Get your head out of the sand and look around!

WHAT!?!? there are NOT enough people to do all of work!? there are MILLIONS of people unemployed sir! don't givve me that. if ANY reason for automation is the case, it is the case because things have to be done FASTER. not MORE. and PEOPLE are cause of that crap, not DEMAND. supply can go as slow as possible, it should NOT matter. the demand of PEOPLE is what is out of control.

 

[conception_native_0123]

Do you complain about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea? No, because the USA is too easy a target for your griping. Learn a bit more about the world before complaining about us so much.

i do not need to learn much about usa. i do not complain that much. i just observe. nothing is wrong with this.

 

[Galaxiom]

In my 20s, I lived in a community organised on the principle "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

It was a really good place for needy people with no ability. Not much got done.

One guy claimed his contribution was his spirituality yet he was one of the most obnoxious people I have ever met.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

WHAT!?!? there are NOT enough people to do all of work!? there are MILLIONS of people unemployed sir! don't givve me that.

Indeed, there ARE millions of people unemployed. And a LOT of them are unemployed because they were too stubborn to learn new things because the previous way of doing things wasn't there any more, perhaps because it wasn't efficient enough. The world is changing and if they can't keep up, they fall by the wayside.

The question is not how many are unemployed, but WHY they are unemployed. If they have no education and thus cannot do the jobs that ARE available, then it is on THEM to learn - or starve - or rely on the kindness of others. OR rely on government to steal (excuse me, TAX) enough from others to allow the unemployed to live on the backs of the working population.

Sometimes I come across a bit harsh, and I want to make it clear that I do actually donate money to charity. Our favorite is one of the local food banks that we have investigated enough to know that they are very good in their distribution. Their overhead rate is low, so we support them with every grocery visit.

Where I draw the line is when the folks demanding welfare support want so much that if I DID donate at that level, I would drop below the poverty line myself. I worked hard for what I've got including working while going through serious liver disease for two years past "normal" retirement age so that my wife and I could have a decent - NOT luxurious - retirement. During the last few years of my career, I was seriously ill and often worked through a lot of pain to reach a retirement goal. I have a very low opinion of the perpetual welfare crowd - and they DO exist despite all the "woke" propaganda from the Social Justice Warriors.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

i just observe. nothing is wrong with this.

There is if you get it wrong.

 

[Isaac]

WHAT!?!? there are NOT enough people to do all of work!? there are MILLIONS of people unemployed sir! don't givve me that. if ANY reason for automation is the case, it is the case because things have to be done FASTER. not MORE. and PEOPLE are cause of that crap, not DEMAND. supply can go as slow as possible, it should NOT matter. the demand of PEOPLE is what is out of control.

A huge amount of unemployed people choose to be unemployed.

In fact, I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of able bodied, working-age unemployed adults are essentially choosing to be unemployed. They are either waiting for a "certain" role to come along that suits them better than the one down the street (which has had a Now Hiring sign on it for the past 50 years, every day), or they are OK collecting welfare/unemployment, students, housewives, someone else's ward, etc.

I worked in the collections industry for 10-15 years when I was younger. I've heard every story in the book. Every single unemployed person I talked to - including the ones who had been "looking for a job, sir" for the past 5 years--knew full well there was a McDonalds down the street who'd been hiring the whole time.

People prefer to 'wait' until that special something comes along.