Today's Environmentalists Are Really Luddites (1 Viewer)

[Isaac]

I love the drive between Phoenix and San Diego, the wind farms are quite a sight to see! Setting pragmatism and actual functioning aside, they are absolutely delightful to drive through

 

[RonPaii]

Isn't the problem with solar power in Britain the distinct lack of sunlight?

You highlighted the problem with dealing with Global Warming through conservation, is that the incentives to cheat are strong. In the end, we will need to do geoengineering to deal with Global Warming.

Remember back in the coming ice age days, some smart scientist suggested coating ice sheets with a dark substance to absorb more heat from the sub

 

[Thales750]

I love the drive between Phoenix and San Diego, the wind farms are quite a sight to see! Setting pragmatism and actual functioning aside, they are absolutely delightful to drive through

I think it's interesting that Texas leads the US in wind and solar power production. And did you hear? The Great Red State of Texas is actually contemplating the legalization of Marijuana. Of course, many in MAGA are bonified pot enthusiast.

 

[DickyP]

I too do not dislike the view of wind power turbines, but the the sad fact is that, given that they can't be recycled, it takes about 27 years to achieve a carbon saving from a turbine whilst at present the average life of a turbine is 17½ years.

 

[Cotswold]

Isn't the problem with solar power in Britain the distinct lack of sunlight?

You highlighted the problem with dealing with Global Warming through conservation, is that the incentives to cheat are strong. In the end, we will need to do geoengineering to deal with Global Warming.

Contrary to the fact that many people around the world believe that the UK isn't sunny, which is clearly nonsense. London is around the same temperature as Paris. From April/May to September it can be expected to be mild and the Gulf Stream tends to keep Britain warmer than many other countries around the North Sea. During June- July in the last couple of years we have seen frequent days at 36ºc plus.

In 2008 the King (who was then Prince Charles) was informing us that London would be underwater by 2012. Similar reports appear every year but pushing out the date each time. One thing that seemed odd was that if the oceans were to rise as predicted why was the USA totally unconcerned about Florida?
We don't really know if GW today is a natural event, which it probably is. In Roman times it was warmer than today. A mini ice age started in around the 1300s and it is only started to warm up in the later 19th and into the 20th century. Up to the 1800s in England many rivers froze over. Wasn't there whole areas in the USA that were impossible to travel to, or very difficult in the 1800s due to the colder weather at that time?

I don't think that many in Britain see any problem in rising temperatures. Much more pleasant. Obviously Russia and China are enthusiastic as increased temperatures will be a huge benefit to them.

 

[Thales750]

It's interesting, in the "lining in interesting times" sort of way, how so many people use climate change as the only barometer for deciding how we should handle renewable sources and environmental assaults.

Did you know that enforcing environmental regulations actually increases employment?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Did you know that enforcing environmental regulations actually increases employment?

Did you know that enforcing regulations always makes something cost more, and yet the ones who enforce the regulations don't stop to consider whether the side-effect of letting the regulation go is cheaper than enforcing it?

Enforcing regulations: See also Loper-Bright and several EPA and wetlands cases.

It is a balancing act. Life is inherently messy. The question is whether those regulations make sense. However, sensible or not, there is no guarantee that things will not be messy DESPITE enforcing regulations.

Next time, (asking as a member) please don't make blanket comments about regulations that avoid consideration of the exact side effects of said regulations. I have learned long ago (and you should have, too) that one size doesn't fit all.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Governments can't solve homelessness or corruption, but if you give them more money they can solve climate change.

 

[Isaac]

Contrary to the fact that many people around the world believe that the UK isn't sunny, which is clearly nonsense. London is around the same temperature as Paris. From April/May to September it can be expected to be mild and the Gulf Stream tends to keep Britain warmer than many other countries around the North Sea. During June- July in the last couple of years we have seen frequent days at 36ºc plus.

In 2008 the King (who was then Prince Charles) was informing us that London would be underwater by 2012. Similar reports appear every year but pushing out the date each time. One thing that seemed odd was that if the oceans were to rise as predicted why was the USA totally unconcerned about Florida?
We don't really know if GW today is a natural event, which it probably is. In Roman times it was warmer than today. A mini ice age started in around the 1300s and it is only started to warm up in the later 19th and into the 20th century. Up to the 1800s in England many rivers froze over. Wasn't there whole areas in the USA that were impossible to travel to, or very difficult in the 1800s due to the colder weather at that time?

I don't think that many in Britain see any problem in rising temperatures. Much more pleasant. Obviously Russia and China are enthusiastic as increased temperatures will be a huge benefit to them.

I think the disconnect comes from the fact that the UK has frequent rain, which leads people to assume it must be cloudy, because clouds are generally associated with rain! It all makes sense, except a guy I know who lives there (my boss actually), said the rain is frequent, but extremely short- then the sun comes out again

 

[Isaac]

I think it's interesting that Texas leads the US in wind and solar power production. And did you hear? The Great Red State of Texas is actually contemplating the legalization of Marijuana. Of course, many in MAGA are bonified pot enthusiast.

After seeing a few years of the effects, (mostly a lot of car accidents), I'd say it should be illegal but de-criminalized. A misdemeanor in all cases, even when selling. Yes, we really should go 'backwards' - the message it sends to young people when something is "totally legal" is POWERFUL and should NOT be underestimated.

 

[Isaac]

I think it's interesting that Texas leads the US in wind and solar power production. And did you hear? The Great Red State of Texas is actually contemplating the legalization of Marijuana. Of course, many in MAGA are bonified pot enthusiast.

Considering Trump's Posts On Social Media, I'M THINKING That his Drug of Choice MUST BE COCAINE THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!!!!!!!

 

[Cotswold]

I think the disconnect comes from the fact that the UK has frequent rain, which leads people to assume it must be cloudy, because clouds are generally associated with rain! It all makes sense, except a guy I know who lives there (my boss actually), said the rain is frequent, but extremely short- then the sun comes out again

It depends where you live in England.
When we lived in the North, near the Lakes it wasn't unusual to have 36 hours of rain. Further south in Gloucestershire I haven't seen more than six or eight hours of rain in over ten years. The only downside of living further south is that I need to give cut the grass a trim in December. Where we were I'd put the mower away in September and not use it again until March.
I think as far as rain is concerned, the best advice is don't live in areas near reservoirs.

 

[DickyP]

Solar panels do not depend on bright sunlight to work. All daylight works - just not quite so well if it it isn't bright sunlight. a bit like remembering you can get sun burned when it's dull and overcast..

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I can't speak of detailed statistics here, but when I was on vacation (playing tourist) in Seattle, Washington (state), USA, the tour guides on more than one tour bus mentioned that Seattle had the highest number of overcast or gloomy days in the USA for a large city, as verified by USA weather services. I asked Google Gemini and it confirmed that claim, with an average of 226 days per year. Note that there are smaller cities with higher overcast rates and my question excluded Canadian cities such as Vancouver. Anyway, the tour guide also pointed out that Seattle had an above-average suicide rate and that psychologists linked the two observations.

That observation also would tend to make Seattle a place where solar cell installations would be less efficient than, say, Albuquerque.

 

[Thales750]

Did you know that enforcing regulations always makes something cost more, and yet the ones who enforce the regulations don't stop to consider whether the side-effect of letting the regulation go is cheaper than enforcing it?

Enforcing regulations: See also Loper-Bright and several EPA and wetlands cases.

It is a balancing act. Life is inherently messy. The question is whether those regulations make sense. However, sensible or not, there is no guarantee that things will not be messy DESPITE enforcing regulations.

Next time, (asking as a member) please don't make blanket comments about regulations that avoid consideration of the exact side effects of said regulations. I have learned long ago (and you should have, too) that one size doesn't fit all.

Doc, between home building and writing ERP systems, which included PHAs and NCRs for a Chemical Plant, I can tell you that in the vast world of wealth distribution, regulations are one of the few things that takes money from the richest and pays it to the middle class.

Competition keeps prices in control, until it doesn't. Which it's where we are now, because the entire enterprise level corporations are price fixing every aspect of our lives.

That, is what causes inflation.

 

[Thales750]

Governments can't solve homelessness or corruption, but if you give them more money they can solve climate change.

Climate Change is a Red Herring. Both sides use it to prove the of the other side, exaggerating the divide, and transferring even more wealth up the chain. It serves the wealthiest class to keep the divide, because profits must stay at their current unsustainable rates, even until all other commerce is completely eliminated.

It diverts the focus away from all of the other all-life-form destroying discharges of highly toxic chemicals, which are a result of all this petrochemical output. It keeps us from developing biobased chemicals and fuels.

But mainly, it is a metric for the calculus of the total volume of toxic waste. So reducing carbon dioxide would have an effect on other emissions.

Interestingly, many everyday people have such strong emotional reactions to anything that would clean up the environment. It's almost as if someone has spent billions of dollars convincing these folks that profit at the top is more important than a healthy ecosystem.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

That, is what causes inflation.

Inflation occurs when you print money (or virtually approve its existence electronically) faster than the labor force adds enough labor to balance that added value.

 

[Thales750]

Inflation occurs when you print money (or virtually approve its existence electronically) faster than the labor force adds enough labor to balance that added value.

Doc that is only a partial truth. And a minor contributor in the case of the US economy. We have one of the few currency in world history that is not based on a FIAT. Ours is based on an actual commodity of wealth. Oil, and the selling of world stability. Which sadly our current administration, is doing every thing in their power to destroy that.

This is an area of study you would find extremely interesting, but it would require you to broaden your sources of information.

 

[RonPaii]

I can't speak of detailed statistics here, but when I was on vacation (playing tourist) in Seattle, Washington (state), USA, the tour guides on more than one tour bus mentioned that Seattle had the highest number of overcast or gloomy days in the USA for a large city, as verified by USA weather services. I asked Google Gemini and it confirmed that claim, with an average of 226 days per year. Note that there are smaller cities with higher overcast rates and my question excluded Canadian cities such as Vancouver. Anyway, the tour guide also pointed out that Seattle had an above-average suicide rate and that psychologists linked the two observations.

That observation also would tend to make Seattle a place where solar cell installations would be less efficient than, say, Albuquerque.

I have a friend that grew up in the Seattle aria. He camped a lot with the BSA and told me he never had a trip were it didn't rain.

 

[AccessBlaster]

We have one of the few currency in world history that is not based on a FIAT. Ours is based on an actual commodity of wealth. Oil, and the selling of world stability.

The dollar was backed by the gold standard until the early 1970s. Since then, it has been a fiat currency. The dollar’s value rests on confidence, not commodity backing.