Today's Environmentalists Are Really Luddites

This thread has turned into kind of rough general discussion based on politics as much as anything else one thing I've noticed is that everything we've been saying has been kept in a pretty substantially respectful conversation.
I promise you I will not lead us down that path again. I do have a question though concerning the whole Mark Kelly thing what are your thoughts about I mean what we've been hearing in the news for the last few months about Mark Kelly? I personally will not attack you for whatever position you have on that matter thanks
 
How does Mark Kelly fit into "Today's Environmentalists Are Really Luddites"?
 
@Thales750 - I speak as a member, not as a moderator, when I suggest that this is a more oblique diversion than some of the subjects we have broached in the thread.
 
@Thales750 - I speak as a member, not as a moderator, when I suggest that this is a more oblique diversion than some of the subjects we have broached in the thread.
Yeah it is a little bit of a hard turn. Do you think we should have an actual debate on that? Or do you think that part of the problem in the old days prior to the deletion of the political thread was what maybe got everybody all hot and crazy?.
I think the political environment has definitely changed in the last 3 months
 
Yeah it is a little bit of a hard turn. Do you think we should have an actual debate on that? Or do you think that part of the problem in the old days prior to the deletion of the political thread was what maybe got everybody all hot and crazy?.
I think the political environment has definitely changed in the last 3 months
I think the reason it won't fly is because all roads lead to DJT, and that is now out of bounds. :D
 
What really bothers me about the way discussions meander down that garden path to the place where stinkweed and stinging nettles grow is that DJT's origin is no worse than other presidents. But because he takes a different view of government, a somewhat more Jeffersonian view in my opinion, he is reviled. DOGE was merely a move towards the Jeffersonian ideal that "the government that governs least governs best." So he wants to dismantle all the intrusive, invasive, insufferable government regulations that have colored our everyday lives - and I can't say I disagree with that viewpoint. George Washington warned about inordinate government growth.
 
What really bothers me about the way discussions meander down that garden path to the place where stinkweed and stinging nettles grow is that DJT's origin is no worse than other presidents. But because he takes a different view of government, a somewhat more Jeffersonian view in my opinion, he is reviled. DOGE was merely a move towards the Jeffersonian ideal that "the government that governs least governs best." So he wants to dismantle all the intrusive, invasive, insufferable government regulations that have colored our everyday lives - and I can't say I disagree with that viewpoint. George Washington warned about inordinate government growth.
I'm sorry Doc but the DJT "origin" story is one of a grifter, a New York developer that has a proven history of cheating a huge number of people out of their earnings. He was convicted of numerous (was it 30 something felonies), not really a standard origin for most presidents. As far as the sex offender thing; probably many leaders from the historical time line of the US were some kind of sex offenders. Our standards are certainly different now, maybe Making America Great Again has something to do with reverting back to those good ol' days.

And then there is grift on a scale unprecedented in US History. No one has grifted his own people more than DJT. He steered the global economy multiple time to make billions off of his bit coin. He learned how easy it was to dupe his followers in his 1st term when he made up the fictitious "Legal Fund" and collected over 200 million from his supporters. Cooler heads prevailed and they turned the money over to the Election Committee. Collecting cash from the American public is risky business, even for him.

These are just a few of the major issues with this President that separate him from the rest of them. By the way, he is imposing his ideas about regulation with this national voting ID campaign. As usual, executive over-regulation seems to have popularity depending on ideology.

Taking voting power away from the states is prohibited by the US Constitution. States decide the type of ID required, not DJT.

And don't forget, weaponizing the Justice Department on a scale no one has ever done before, ok maybe McCarthy. I was about to make a brief list. But I'll wait to see if my little briefing on the State of the Union under this dictator wannabe elicits too much angst from the crowd. I'm perfectly willing to listen to any rebuttal to these accusations.

I promise, I will not lose my temper, or my gentlemanly demeaner.
 
Me: Waiting for someone to notice.

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This thread has turned into kind of rough general discussion based on politics as much as anything else one thing I've noticed is that everything we've been saying has been kept in a pretty substantially respectful conversation.
I promise you I will not lead us down that path again. I do have a question though concerning the whole Mark Kelly thing what are your thoughts about I mean what we've been hearing in the news for the last few months about Mark Kelly? I personally will not attack you for whatever position you have on that matter thanks

My opinion is that they should have been more careful from a practical standpoint, but from a legal standpoint, I think they did nothing wrong.
Advising officers they don't have to obey illegal orders is provocative from a political standpoint, but not illegal.
Prosecuting him is wrong.

But far more wrong is prosecuting Don Lemon and anyone else who is remotely associated, however loosely, with criticizing the Trump admin.
He has turned into nothing more than an authoritarian ruler and not the sharpest tool in the shed at that.
I'm not sure which would be worse though - a really smart authoritarian ruler like the Chinese, or a really dumb one. hard to say.
 
My opinion is that they should have been more careful from a practical standpoint, but from a legal standpoint, I think they did nothing wrong.
Advising officers they don't have to obey illegal orders is provocative from a political standpoint, but not illegal.
Prosecuting him is wrong.

But far more wrong is prosecuting Don Lemon and anyone else who is remotely associated, however loosely, with criticizing the Trump admin.
He has turned into nothing more than an authoritarian ruler and not the sharpest tool in the shed at that.
I'm not sure which would be worse though - a really smart authoritarian ruler like the Chinese, or a really dumb one. hard to say.
The only way to tell the difference is to go to China and openly criticize the leadership. And compare it to ours. My guess is you might see a definite difference.
 
Taking voting power away from the states is prohibited by the US Constitution. States decide the type of ID required, not DJT.

Congress abrogating its duties is not prohibited - but people should be strongly bothered by that, too.

But far more wrong is prosecuting Don Lemon and anyone else who is remotely associated, however loosely, with criticizing the Trump admin.

Don Lemon, if the reports I've seen are correct, participated in the planning of the event that violated the FACE act, which doesn't negate being a journalist. But being a journalist doesn't shield him from being charged with conspiracy to violate the civil rights of church-goers. Further, if he really DID participate in the planning, the REAL news is how a journalist created a news event for the purpose of slanting the reporting.
 
Congress abrogating its duties is not prohibited - but people should be strongly bothered by that, too.



Don Lemon, if the reports I've seen are correct, participated in the planning of the event that violated the FACE act, which doesn't negate being a journalist. But being a journalist doesn't shield him from being charged with conspiracy to violate the civil rights of church-goers. Further, if he really DID participate in the planning, the REAL news is how a journalist created a news event for the purpose of slanting the reporting.
Interesting, I haven't read any such reports nor any claims that he helped plan it. Only that he was aware of it and followed them there, that's all they claimed to my knowledge. IF he planned it that is different.
 
The only way to tell the difference is to go to China and openly criticize the leadership. And compare it to ours. My guess is you might see a definite difference.
As the gap closes though, some of us notice ..
The whole point is to KEEP it that way by vigorously opposing those who are seeking to change it, not say "it's still better than someone else" and rest.
 
As the gap closes though, some of us notice ..
The whole point is to KEEP it that way by vigorously opposing those who are seeking to change it, not say "it's still better than someone else" and rest.
I suspect we have a differing opinion as to what constitutes an authoritarian or dictator.
 
I suspect we have a differing opinion as to what constitutes an authoritarian or dictator.
We may, but even so, we ought to be able to agree that ours has become more and more so. Closer and closer.

The point isn't to say "he's not as bad as X", it's to ensure he doesn't get that bad by stopping the momentum if possible.

Revoking visas of people involved in pro-Gaza demonstrations, invoking lawfare against anyone who was his enemy on the silliest of charges (mortgage applications being the most popular currently), ignoring judicial orders (ICE mostly), overly admiring dictator leaders, declaring the press the enemy of the people, installing a litany of incredibly unqualified people to posts merely because they said things he liked to hear [Hegseth, and tons of judges], generally over-using executive powers, etc.

We ought to be able to agree there is too much going in that direction.
 
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